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BS Questions for WS's - Part 13

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Need2Do posted 12/2/2019 21:59 PM

Chaos:

Why, when the affair is outed, is the WS so hell bent on blaming the one who told for ruining their life?
Why such hatred to them?

Why is that person - the one who did the right thing - the one who exhibited such courage - vilified?

I think I can answer this to some degree: as a WW myself, it is a sense of entitlement, to be happy no matter the cost, until you actually see the cost in the eyes of your BS. This can take days, weeks, or months. But when you begin to see the gravity of the destruction that you have caused, and take responsibility for it, realizing that your BS played no part in the thousands of decisions that went into the A, that itís ALL on you. You are left with shame and guilt. Some WW canít get to this point, because they cannot allow themselves to feel the negative emotions, itís easier to continue to blame and avoid. Even though they do want to R, itís not the right way, I have learned this lesson the hard way myself. This is my second A, and I didnít do the hard work after the first, and it destroyed something beautiful. Now I have been given another chance and I am damned sure not to screw this up...I will make mistakes, and that is ok...it took me 6 months to begin to see the damage I caused, and when I did, something inside me broke, I know that I will not go down that path again.
Empathy is not strong in me, and I donít always recognize my BS triggers, I still have a difficult time discussing the A to his satisfaction, but I am not going to give up.
This is from where I am now, which is far better than where I was 3 years ago,.
I hope that I was able to offer some answers. There are better equipped people here, but this is what I have learned so far.

BraveSirRobin posted 12/2/2019 22:35 PM

I hate to second the bad news, Workwife, but that sounds like pining to me, too. If he claims it's some kind of coincidence, or that he forgot it was "their" song, then IMO he is deliberately lying.

I'm so sorry. To a wayward, the kibble of feeling wanted and desired is like a drug, and he's still going for the fix.

MrsWalloped posted 12/3/2019 07:21 AM

Why, when the affair is outed, is the WS so hell bent on blaming the one who told for ruining their life?
Why such hatred to them?
Why is that person - the one who did the right thing - the one who exhibited such courage - vilified?

Hi Chaos.

Because we live in a bubble that we made for ourselves and the person who told burst that bubble. Now our lives are ruined and thereís pain and suffering from our BS and us and itís horrible. And we arenít ready to face the fact that we did it to ourselves.

My BIL outed me. I was sooo upset at him. Heís a fantastic guy. Heís funny, laid back, warm, caring, and I love him like heís my own brother (I never had one), yet I was so angry at him for doing the right thing. Why couldnít he have confronted me instead? Why did he have to go tell my husband?

See how crazy our thought process gets? Of course he did the right thing. I was destroying his brother and he took care of him. He was there for his brother and I wasnít. The opposite. I was actively hurting his brother and he was saving him. But it took me time to see that. When your life is crashing down all around you you donít immediately become thoughtful and introspective. You lash out at easy targets. I didnít think how much it must have killed him to be the one to tell my husband I betrayed him. I didnít think about him being strong and helping my husband. I thought about me and I was indignant and upset. How could he do that to me?

Itís totally messed up. And it took time for me to see that my BIL not only was there for his brother but he did me a huge favor too by exposing my A.

Does that make sense?

BraveSirRobin posted 12/3/2019 07:44 AM

Why, when the affair is outed, is the WS so hell bent on blaming the one who told for ruining their life? Why such hatred to them? Why is that person - the one who did the right thing - the one who exhibited such courage - vilified?
Because for many WS, the A is partly about power. The power to draw sexual attention and admiration from a new partner. The power to compartmentalize the affair, so the AP stays in their lane and doesn't put the WS's marriage and family at risk. TT is about power, limiting the flow of information in order to control the outcome. It's a Master of the Universe complex.

When someone comes in and blows up the affair, they irretrievably destroy that delusion of invincibility. Suddenly, the WS is forced to scramble to salvage whatever they can.

WilliamM posted 12/3/2019 14:16 PM

I have not asked a question in a long time, but talking to a friend who has was the WS in his relationship. He talked about his guilt and working on himself and the relationship, and how he wanted to save his marriage. I had one question for him and he was not able to answer at this time. It is early in the recovery process; DDay was in November. I also realized I never asked my wife this question. So I wanted to ask it here. After DDay, and for years after, the WS is willing to work on the relationship, improve communication, become more intimate, and all of the things that you want to see in a positive relationship. What has caused you to want to do those things now, instead of doing those same things before you had the A? Why has the A become the catalyst for change?

hikingout posted 12/3/2019 14:49 PM

I have not asked a question in a long time, but talking to a friend who has was the WS in his relationship. He talked about his guilt and working on himself and the relationship, and how he wanted to save his marriage. I had one question for him and he was not able to answer at this time. It is early in the recovery process; DDay was in November. I also realized I never asked my wife this question. So I wanted to ask it here. After DDay, and for years after, the WS is willing to work on the relationship, improve communication, become more intimate, and all of the things that you want to see in a positive relationship. What has caused you to want to do those things now, instead of doing those same things before you had the A? Why has the A become the catalyst for change?

Ohhh, this is a good question William. BTW, hello, haven't seen you in a while.

I would say I assumed that most of my behaviors/thoughts prior to the affair were good and with good intentions backing them. I didn't have a reason to examine them. Marriage was good. Kids were good. I was successful at work. I was quite ignorant about how things from the past shaped my future.

When I cheated, it blew up my tidy little world. I hit the roughest patch of my adult life, and I imploded in a lot of different ways. Bigger ways than I had experienced. I wasn't acknowledging a lot of it either, I was hiding behind being busy. Then I hid from it by having an affair.

The affair made my issues impossible to ignore any more. The affair was the first thing that I ever did that had such a negative impact on me or my life. I think for me it was natural to want to understand why, how, and as I learned those things I saw the universal benefits of fixing them and wanted to fix them for myself. I am still fixing some of them.

So, I guess the short answer was I didn't realize I had any of these issues, I thought I was doing a pretty damned good job at life for a long time. The affair was a signal that I couldn't ignore that all was not right with my world. I do wish I could have come to understand that some other way.

MrsWalloped posted 12/3/2019 15:30 PM

hikingout,

The word that came to my mind was complacency.

Hi WilliamM. I donít know if itís truer for people with longer marriages or not, but we just kind of went along with life. Itís a shame, but life gets in the way unless you really prioritize your relationship and actively work at it. And if you have a ďgoodĒ marriage, sometimes itís even easier to become complacent.

When my world blew up I did a lot of introspection and really looked at many different parts of my life and where my priorities were and where I just ignored them. It kind of went hand in hand with the work I was doing on myself. I looked at everything, not just FOO issues or self-esteem, but everything. Plus, my husband and I went to MC after weíd been at IC for a while and things grew from those sessions.

So to answer your questions, I want to do those things now because theyíre important and a priority for me and my husband. I didnít do them before because I got lazy about my marriage. The A was the catalyst for fixing that because I took a look at my entire life and I wanted to make my marriage better as best I could.

hikingout posted 12/3/2019 15:33 PM

Complacency indeed.

Nolife posted 12/4/2019 10:31 AM

I have a question for Ws I guess a male should answer or anyone at this point. Separated got back together lied to me for 38 years Dday was May 2019 is this answer a normal answer as to why he didnít tell me in the beginning or somewhere along with he 38 years
First answer I thought you were manipulating me. I thought you werenít serious.
Second answer I felt shame I didnít want anyone to know! I thought You had slept with someone.
One would think I felt shame and I didnít want you to know and most of all I didnít want to lose you now that we were getting back together.
He also said the women said I told her he couldnít satisfy me. Who in gods name would tell someone that especially a social friend. I didnít discuss private matter with my best friends . I didnít discuss my private life until now and that took some letting go.

WilliamM posted 12/4/2019 11:56 AM

Thanks for those responses. Hello hikingout and MrsWalloped. It has been a while. I do come on and read a lot and respond here and there but have not been as active as I once was. I think I will become more active soon. Love your response and it does help me understand a lot. I do have a follow up questions. What was communication like with BH before the A, or before the relationship with AP moved into the EA or danger area? Where was the disconnect at that time? Lastly, did you recognize that the AP was trying to get with you sexually? I know that many WSs talk about the "ego kibbles", and I will admit that I have never fully grasped the power of "ego kibbles", but what did the AP say or do that made it acceptable to move forward into an A?

hikingout posted 12/4/2019 13:11 PM

What was communication like with BH before the A, or before the relationship with AP moved into the EA or danger area? Where was the disconnect at that time? Lastly, did you recognize that the AP was trying to get with you sexually? I know that many WSs talk about the "ego kibbles", and I will admit that I have never fully grasped the power of "ego kibbles", but what did the AP say or do that made it acceptable to move forward into an A?

We were strained for about 18 months prior to the A. H was starting a business, traveling a lot, and I was trying to fill in a lot of gaps and we had a kid getting ready to finish highschool. Our communication centered around to do lists. I was working a lot of 18 hour days trying to help him and to keep up. I think we both thought we would be fine because we'd always had a solid marriage, but we were not fine. It's that complacency.

I did understand that the AP wanted sex. But, in my sick mind, I just wanted to feel like someone wanted me- that I was worth spending time with, that I could elicit lust. I felt like a pursued woman. I get now that if you basically breathe and have a vagina that was all the requirement was for him. But at the time I took all of his attention as positive because it made me feel good. I didn't spend time thinking about how much of it was sexual attention versus other attention because we talked about all sorts of stuff. It seemed at the time more like a new relationship but I can look back and see the stories I was telling myself at the time. Ego kibbles is kind of short hand for "feeling special" or "important" to someone. The difference in an affair, is they are there to make you happy. In a relationship that is above board, you want to make them happy. It's just a different dynamic.

MrsWalloped posted 12/4/2019 17:30 PM

I spent like an hour trying to answer your question without writing a whole book about my A. I donít know if I was successful or not.

What was communication like with BH before the A, or before the relationship with AP moved into the EA or danger area? Where was the disconnect at that time?

We communicated, but it was very superficial and sparse. We hadnít really processed my miscarriages and we never even really talked about it let alone grieve properly. Then I was planning DD1ís wedding and my husband left me to handle that on my own because he was busy at work. He was under a lot of pressure and would come home exhausted where he just needed to unwind and decompress. Meanwhile I was running the house with everyone home, homework and cleaning and cooking and the drama (three girls teenager to low 20ís). I wanted to talk to him but he didnít have the energy and I felt alone and ignored and like I didnít matter. Add in my own personal issues with how I viewed myself and this just reinforced all of that and I created a dialogue in my head where nothing I did was good or right and everything could be blamed on me and was my fault. I lost our babies. I was going to ruin DD1ís wedding. I couldnít handle the kids or the house or anything else. I was cracking and I didnít feel like I had any support.
Lastly, did you recognize that the AP was trying to get with you sexually? I know that many WSs talk about the "ego kibbles", and I will admit that I have never fully grasped the power of "ego kibbles", but what did the AP say or do that made it acceptable to move forward into an A?

No, I didnít. We knew each other for like a year before the EA began. Iíve been hit on many times and there wasnít anything like that going on with the AP. I started complaining about what was going on at home (I told no one about my miscarriages - I was ashamed of it) and how stressed I was and how my husband was never around and when he was he had no time for me. Funny thing I didnít even complain to the AP at first. It was to the other women in the office. It was mostly women there with a few men. The AP volunteered and was a donor and he would show up one or two days a week. He heard us talking and one day he asked me about it. And so I confided in him. We had coffee, I talked, he listened. Thatís how it started.

He didnít say anything specifically. I was starving for kind words and validation and encouragement and sympathy. He gave it to me. Part of what made it ďacceptableĒ for me is that it was an EA first. I am not into NSA sex. Part of me convinced myself I loved him because without that I wouldnít have been able to have sex with him because I didnít want to see myself as that kind of woman . But our relationship grew, he showered me with praise, fed my ego, clucked sympathetically at the right times, gave me advice, and said all the things I was really dying to hear from my husband. And I lapped it up and savored it. The PA was scary at first, but it was a natural evolution and he just kept adding more and more of what I needed as he started touching me and it just kept escalating until the next step was sex. And when we did have sex he laid it on thick and I felt so good about myself. I was in control, I was powerful and sexy and desired and he loved me and thought I was special and he listened to me. I was important. And so I went back for more and debased myself more and craved it more and did it again and again.

That is my A in a condensed version. There wasnít a magic word or a switch that was turned on. He saw what I needed, he provided it for me and I drank like someone whoís been hiking through the desert for days. I donít know if he always planned on sleeping with me and this was a seduction game for him. I was his third affair so itís possible and maybe likely, but itís not like he told me.

The acceptability part is what we convince ourselves of that gives us permission to have the A. Or even if we donít, we push those thoughts aside and focus on all the things we need that weíre getting out of it. Not want but need. I needed what he was providing. I was a mess at home, cracking at the seams and my hormones were apparently totally out of whack from my pregnancy and miscarriages. I was falling apart and hated myself for it which reinforced what a failure I was which put more pressure on me and made me more stressed and that made me fail more because I couldnít handle it all which proved I was a loser and worthless and my mother was right about me and round and round I went. I needed to be hugged. I needed to be loved and cherished and told I was good enough and that I was doing my best and it didnít have to all get done and I could be kind to myself and take a break. I needed to be told my mother was full of it and I was doing a great job. I needed to grieve and be told losing my babies wasnít my fault. I needed to feel like I mattered to someone and not just be the person who everyone takes for granted. I needed to be appreciated. I needed it all so badly and I didnít have it and he was there and he gave that to me.

None of this is an excuse or a justifiable reason to cheat. Please donít take it as me suggesting that. What Iím saying is that some Aís are all about sex, or theyíre a ONS but mine was totally about the emotional side. The sex was the price to be paid to get more of it. Iím not saying the sex was not enjoyable. Itís sex. Of course it felt good. But it was a means to an end and thatís what I was in it for.

Anyway, there you have it. Years of therapy. I consider it an accomplishment that I was actually able to write all of this and I only needed to stop a few times. I donít know if that helps you in any way. But thatís how it happened for me.

[This message edited by MrsWalloped at 5:30 PM, December 4th (Wednesday)]

Alpargata posted 12/4/2019 19:16 PM

[This message edited by Alpargata at 4:31 AM, December 5th (Thursday)]

Tallgirl posted 12/4/2019 20:17 PM

William. Those were great questions. Thank you all.

outofsorts posted 12/4/2019 21:05 PM

First time poster here, long time reader

First of all, thank you to all of the WS's who post here, this thread is very helpful!

What made you go from cheating on your spouse - knowing how much they would be hurt if they found out about it - to giving everything you had to try to help your spouse and save the relationship.

My WH is doing everything he can to try to make things better but I can't figure out what changed in his brain between the infidelity and where he is now. I've asked but he didn't really have a great answer.

WalkinOnEggshelz posted 12/5/2019 04:23 AM

Alpargata, you have a pm.

MrsWalloped, please donít feel obligated to reply.

hikingout posted 12/9/2019 11:33 AM

First time poster here, long time reader
First of all, thank you to all of the WS's who post here, this thread is very helpful!
What made you go from cheating on your spouse - knowing how much they would be hurt if they found out about it - to giving everything you had to try to help your spouse and save the relationship.
My WH is doing everything he can to try to make things better but I can't figure out what changed in his brain between the infidelity and where he is now. I've asked but he didn't really have a great answer.

Because when we have an affair it's the island of make believe. We can lie to ourselves about everything to both justify it and romanticize it.

We often avoid really thinking about what it is we are doing, or what we are risking, or what any of it will mean.

When it all hits the light of day, the clarity begins. We betrayed ourselves in having the affair, it was never in our best interests. We lied to ourselves, we lived in lala land and escaped our day to day lives. When push comes to shove, we realize how much we should have appreciated what we had. Reality sets in and the lies do not hold up.

It's not out of obligations, not for me anyway. I don't think obligations are often enough to pull someone out of fantasy land, not for the long term anyway.

20yrsagoBS posted 12/10/2019 22:07 PM

Hi,

One thing that I have tried to wrap my head around is how, when you invest so much into this relationship with your AP, you then simply ghost them after?

[This message edited by 20yrsagoBS at 2:12 PM, December 11th (Wednesday)]

MrsWalloped posted 12/12/2019 07:26 AM

One thing that I have tried to wrap my head around is how, when you invest so much into this relationship with your AP, you then simply ghost them after?

What is the part that youíre struggling with? How we feel about it or actually doing it or something else? For many of us, NC is a requirement by our BS. For some of us, after DDay we donít want to have anything to do with the AP. Some of us find it difficult to do. Thatís why we break NC and there are threads in Wayward about missing the AP and threads in other places how the BS found out the A went underground or they were still in contact..

In my case, NC was a requirement so I told the AP we couldnít be in contact any more (but I still broke NC later). Quitting my ďjobĒ so I wouldnít see him was another requirement and my husband sent the AP a letter from his attorney telling him not to contact me. At my husbandís insistence I also changed my email address and phone number. Also, my situation made my having nothing to do with the AP easier.

20yrsagoBS posted 12/12/2019 20:02 PM

I think itís just that the draw to the AP is so strong, my WH killed our marriage for her. Then, once the A was exposed, he simply stopped.


Why not stop before it turns into the A?

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