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BS Questions for WS's - Part 13

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Gottagetthrough posted 5/15/2020 12:37 PM

For ws who didn’t want divorce- how did you feel when your bs did divorce you? Did you wake up and feel remorse? Did you realize you’d cake eaten too long and lost your spouse?

Lucky77 posted 5/15/2020 13:56 PM

Hi Mickie,

After the A was ended I knew right away that rekindling the A should never happen. You can't know at that moment though it won't ever happen especially given what an intense, torrid affair it was. It is a daily choice I still make today and every day to not reach out to her. She is still in my bones and my veins though.

JBWD posted 5/15/2020 14:20 PM

Mickie,
Seeing how hard this is to sort through, and I can only imagine how bad it sucks. What I can tell you to help frame the problem:

You ask about “knowing in one’s bones” and I think that’s actually the crux of the problem. Like your WH, I broke NC. However I couldn’t articulate why I broke NC. And what I was assessing at the time was my feelings. Gut instincts. Emotions. I have spent a long year slowing and quieting those emotions in order to understand the thoughts that they fed. And those thoughts proved false.

The difference is I can articulate those now. I believe that the reason “our whys” are so important is because we can only discredit what we recognize. Before that point, we’re operating off of vague ideas and shadows of feelings. And that lack of rigor is how we can deceive ourselves into betraying. (I see a lot of factors at play in this- As our degree of “connectedness” dwindles in a digital environment these emotions are easier to manipulate for marketing purposes, which further fuels “emotional blindness”)

I don’t have a timeline for that. But that’s the difference I see, and I believe that’s the true necessity for being able to answer “why”? THEN I believe you’ll be able to begin to understand just how “done” WH is with the A.

Mickie500 posted 5/15/2020 15:47 PM

Lucky77
Thanks so much for sharing.
Are you living a full happy life with your wife or still thinking of the ap?

Do you know the why’s of you starting the A?
You said it was torrid and intense——are you able to bring that level of excitement into your marriage?

Are you trustworthy now?

Mickie500 posted 5/15/2020 15:53 PM

JBWD
Thank you for sharing. I actually don’t quite understand what you are saying. My husband doesn’t seem to know why he broke no contact after a few weeks and didn’t know exactly what he was getting. Of course I thought it was a bull shit answer and I’m waiting to hear what the answer ireally is. I’m disheartened to know that it could be a year before he knows.

I’m sorry you’re not reconciling with your BS. I am in recovery but it’s day by day and I check in with my feelings often. But I’m often torn.

JBWD posted 5/15/2020 18:55 PM

I actually don’t quite understand what you are saying. My husband doesn’t seem to know why he broke no contact after a few weeks and didn’t know exactly what he was getting. Of course I thought it was a bull shit answer and I’m waiting to hear what the answer ireally is.

Basically I’m saying that if he can’t tell you why he broke NC I don’t believe he won’t break NC again. He can only reverse the process by knowing how the process worked.

Perhaps my example will help. When I thought I was doing the work, I was getting a bit too defensive and quite honestly paranoid. So to make myself feel better, I’d use the person I’d become accustomed to using- AP. I didn’t necessarily know why I was doing it at the time, and so I was reinforcing my own narrative that AP WAS special and there was something there to be celebrated.

Now that I understand that past action, I understand the times now that I’m alone where I defeat the urge to break NC. Because I know it’s based on my own flawed perspectives.

LadyG posted 5/15/2020 22:18 PM

Are the needs of the WS far greater than of the BS?

I thought that I made things very clear and simple, that Infidelity was a marriage deal breaker for me...

Does the WS just hope that the BS wouldn’t find out?

Lucky77 posted 5/16/2020 05:58 AM

Hi Mickie,

I've been with W for 40 years. My LTA was 3 years. I'd make the analogy that now my M is like being with a wonderful, fun, calm Golden Retriever. My AP was like a fire breathing dragon on the other hand. If my M is like a steady, warm, comfortable campfire on a cool night my AP was like dumping a gallon of gasoline on it. She was crazy. But a hot kind of crazy.

As to my being safe now....I've always looked at a marriage as not a life long commitment but thousands of daily commitments. I've felt I need to work at my M every day to stay committed and a good partner. To treat my W as a queen and to know how to keep other women at arms length. Today I feel like I'm a safe partner. Tomorrow is a new day though. I admit to having a wandering eye. Know I have not confessed to my A and carry it with me like wearing a concrete yoke. Indeed this is like back stabbing my W so I'm not here looking for any good behavior awards.

The A was never going to be sustainable....it was a breathless time of texting/sexting/intense letter writing/phone calling/fucking/rinse/lather/repeat. I cut it off. Thankfully she's left me alone. As to my whys......I'll claim MLC.....empty nest. Someday I'll tell you about my Porsche race car and my ridiculous other times of acting out and drunken behaviors in my early-mid 50's.


JBWD posted 5/16/2020 09:51 AM

LadyG

I think my point to Mickie above is somewhat the same as an answer for your question. I couldn’t have answered a question about legitimate needs. I relied on a “sliding scale of feelings” which is, regrettably, impossible to predict. Because of that, simple statements like “Infidelity is a dealbreaker” would have been alien to me.

So the problem isn’t a quantifiable imbalance between partners’ needs, it’s an undefined set for a lot of people. It takes a special kind of selfish to turn that lack of rigor into destroying a M, but it’s clear that happens a lot.

Maybe this parallel helps- A lot of times when people run afoul of a “screamer boss,” you hear the same thing- “I was doing what I thought x project demanded. All of a sudden screamer boss laid into me about something he’d never told me!”
The worst thing about the screamers is they’re angry, and part of why they’re angry is they often RECOGNIZE their direction was poor and inadequate to begin with. It’s exactly the same with a cheater. The failure up front to think/reflect and self-assess leads to the betrayal, because assumptions are WAY askew.

Regarding the second question- Most cheaters are found out and that should answer your question.

Mickie500 posted 5/16/2020 14:47 PM

OH WOW Lucky77-
your AP sounds like me as a BW!
My husband and I are like explosive highly intense kind of fatalistic kind of relationship. The AP was kind and soft and VERY very accommodating sexually and other areas.

I’m more sarcastic and make fun——it’s part of how we’ve always communicated. In fact I when I started learning about affairs I freaked out when I learned about limerance because it sounded like my husband and I and then I thought oh my goodness did we have some kind of crazy relationship that had a limerencstic marriage?!?!

My husband puts so much pressure on me to reassure him. He’s like an insecure boy with me always seeking my approval and wanting my praise. It was hard for me to realize this woman saw my husband as confident and she just filled him up with constant compliments and adoration.

So during the A my husband was still all over me needing validation ..... but at the same time he has always been very critical of me and possessive of me and where my attention goes when not on him. He has been intimidated by my sex drive and high libido. Then enter the OW........

All the OW really did was praise him constantly- tell him everything he said brilliant, play the damsel in distress role to perfection, and tied it up in a bow with bj’s and rimjobs without requiring him to climax every time because she just “got off on pleasing him”

How could I compete with that?!?!?

Mickie500 posted 5/16/2020 14:51 PM

Oops- that should read - “without requiring that she climax everytime.“

JBWD posted 5/16/2020 15:39 PM

My husband puts so much pressure on me to reassure him. He’s like an insecure boy with me always seeking my approval and wanting my praise. It was hard for me to realize this woman saw my husband as confident and she just filled him up with constant compliments and adoration.

How could I compete with that?!?!?

With what you describe in the first paragraph, why would you WANT to compete if that’s the prize?

This is more of a point for fellow betrayeds to make, but your WH’s demands are unreasonable. The reason you “couldn’t compete” (I’m using the quotes because I don’t think it’s fair to you to compare) is because you ultimately weren’t going to be used up by him. What you’re describing is a person who looks to others to do what he can’t do for himself- Namely foster an internal sense of value that can survive the normal daily ups and downs of such things as
-Being proven wrong from time to time
-Giving unconditionally
-Acknowledging the pain of others
-Acknowledging perspectives other than their own
-Facing loneliness or personal disappointment without blame or anger

Simply put, you’re currently blaming yourself for treating him like a healthy adult. He might not have recognized how skewed his assumptions and unstated needs (I’m guessing unstated because I see that a lot) were, but he likely had ample opportunities to assess himself and not use another human as medication.

He can get better and become a safe partner, but that doesn’t involve you adapting to his own flawed perspectives that need to be challenged regardless of what his future holds as a partner.

Mickie500 posted 5/16/2020 16:13 PM

No I was NEVER meaning I was literally competing.
Yes he’s in individual counseling.

Awan posted 5/16/2020 19:33 PM

WS/FWS,

Is the anniversary of your A holds a special meaning for you?
This month exactly a year ago WH started his A with OW, I don’t think he would break NC but I don’t know.
This month has been hell for me even more so because WH told OW their anniversary is 31st May, he told me when he said that he forgot that it’s actually our wedding day. What an asshole.

LadyG posted 5/16/2020 20:23 PM

Im not being nasty but she was a downgrade compared to me so not sure what he saw.

TO any WS... Did anyone else ever influence your decisions to leave or stay in your marriage... your mother, for instance, who took an instant immediate dislike to your AP...

LadyG posted 5/16/2020 20:24 PM

sorry, double up 🙏🏼

[This message edited by LadyG at 8:28 PM, May 16th (Saturday)]

brokendad19 posted 5/16/2020 21:47 PM

Zugzwang,

Thanks for your reply. Never heard of object love before. After googling some, I think that's exactly what is going on. For my IC my therapist asked me to think of a list of my strengths. She had herself and the kids try and help me. Practically every single thing she listed was things I do for her.

LadyG posted 5/16/2020 23:55 PM

Thank you. I have read some amazing, valuable insights here...

I am still at times desperate to share this with my WH

HE still RUNS when I ask a simple question or ask him to read anything of value..

He excuses himself by stating that he has triggered my PTSD and he’s been advised to just leave when this happens. (Do all PTSD sufferers, endure alone)

How can I just get him to think deeply about one topic or question at a time, without him running from the room screaming? And yes, I express calmly that he can reply in his own time... Will I be waiting in vain?

Stinger posted 5/17/2020 18:39 PM

Anyone been mean to your BS while cheating? Was it the cognitive dissonance deal, where in order to convince yourself you were not bad and had no choice or were driven to cheat, you demonized your spouse and mistreated him or her.

I am divorced but the cruelty my cheater XW displayed is what bothers me the most and makes co-parenting more challenging. Never apologized, either.

Utterlybaffled posted 5/18/2020 10:05 AM

I had posted before but things have changed so quickly and I am just at a loss how to proceed.
Back story...H started EA 2 years ago, 1st dday came about 4 months into it when I looked at phone log, even though i knew just had no proof. Since then it has been a string of lies and secrets. Throughout 1st year it was every few months something would be revealed to me, EA turned to a PA, still could not stay away from her, kicked him out he feel apart made promises started to work but only lasted 2 months then he choose to leave to "fix" himself. He has been out of house for 10 months, again lies and secrets found out he has been seeing her the whole time, after more gaslighting and promises he was never going to keep I realized I just was not wanting this version of who he has become and at same time all of a sudden I felt a huge change in him. He said we needed to talk and at that time I made the decision I was done with this and told him I no longer wanted to be married to this person he has become (first time in 26 years I have ever even mentioned not wanting to be with him). He told me he did not know when he could get himself together and he no longer wants to make me sit around waiting for him. 2 days later he is on phone crying to me about how the last thing he wants is to divorse me (he knew I was calling a lawyer to gather my info) that this all is too real now and he never wants to be without me. Saying that he has made so many mistakes and he only pulled away and said for me not to wait because AP was making ultimatums, making threats to call me (which she started to do but I refuse to answer) making threats to put lies out there about him. Over the last 10 days he has been open and honest about what has been happening and how he knows he is in limerance, knows how much he has screwed up and feels trapped by OW. He is worried her accusations will affect his job, cause police involvement, etc. He states she is always hitting him, making threats of violence with him (fyi she already has a restraining order on her because she attacked ex husbands girlfriend, she broke the order and was arrested for it). I have told him from dday 1 that I believed she was unstable, she was blackmailing him from day 1, and just from learning things about her over the past 2 years. She is really the bunny boiling type and I believe that he is scared and worried about what she will do when he walks away. He keeps saying he needs to put a plan together to get away but he knows he wants to get away. Said he wants to tell me everything, put it all on the table so she or anyone can never tell me something I do not know (1st time he has ever stated that) he has been talking to me about her everyday telling me what they talked about, again 1st time for that, but I just do not know how to trust he means it this time. She has this crazy hold on him and even if he walks away how do I know he will stay away, she really is the crazy kind that stands in the middle of the street while he is working till he talks to her, she has gone to his coworkers houses crying and begging for them to call my H when he was trying to stay away from him, she brings her daughter into it and had her follow us a few months ago. Do WH eventually get to a point where they really see the crazy and have enough? Can he be strong enough to stay away from her for good this time? I am at the point where I am staying cautious, told him I will not reassure him or make promises, that his actions will be what matters, and that if he keeps talking I will keep listening. I know he is not lying about her behaviors or his fears, but what I do not know is if his fears are becoming an excuse to stay with her because he is really not ready to leave? Again so many lies and secrets hard to know what is real anymore

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