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Caught Her By Accident

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free2016 posted 9/5/2019 13:38 PM

And lastly, I have gotten a LOT of advice to IMMEDIATELY divorce.

It is hard not to give it, when having a knowledge of your WW's betrayal, your initial reaction and other circumstances that were provided. Months and often years on SI, made many here quite adept at predicting how the events will unfold, based on many factors of the story. Not with a 100% accuracy of course, but sadly close enough...
I am being a bit cynical, 3 year after DDay ...eventually it all will come down to the following.. your WW had some wild premenopausal sex that she enjoyed with two younger studs, she never planned to D you, but all this fun was at the cost of your humiliation and emasculation, she knew this and accepted the deal. Now she is ready to recommit, having experienced all she wanted. R for you means that for many months you would have to do every day some mental gymnastics in order to move past the shame and humiliation of staying with a cheater. No young children or finical problems, and with your no bs approach to WW's drama, makes many here wanting to help you and spare you the anguish of trying to salvage something that is honestly looks quite hopeless at the moment.
But it is your call, you might find it within yourself the strength to forgive WW, for the sake of everything you had with her before As ... Another thing I learned on SI, that no matter how good and appropriate an advice here, most BSs need some time to process the initial trauma before they are able to hear it and, more importantly, act upon it.

fareast posted 9/5/2019 14:04 PM

Trdd has raised some good points. You are very new t9 this and have yet to learn all you need to know and how you feel going forward. Time is your ally. You need to take care of you and deal with your own emotional trauma over this. You are in control going forward. Despite what you read here you are not a cuck if you decide to R. An honest attempt to R is not some type of ongoing hell if both parties are willing and able, and the WS is remorseful, empathetic, and helping the BS any way she can. Your situation for your M going forward is not hopeless as others have intimated. You do you. If you determine after processing everything and watching your WWís actions that her infidelity is a dealbreaker for you, you will know you have duly considered your options and file for D. If you determine her infidelity is not in and of itself a dealbreaker, and you find her actions, not just words, demonstrate remorse then R is very possible. It is your call. Good luck.

JS84 posted 9/5/2019 14:49 PM

Just wanted to say, I think people mean to tell you to FILE for divorce. Not ultimately come to that result. Divorces take months to finalize and can be cancelled at any time.

Putting those divorce papers in her hand or having her served gives her a concrete look at her possible future. Words, yelling, talking, crying, etc are all well and good (or not) but actual consequences will most likely get you the type of results you need.

Also I'd recommend the polygraph too. The fact that this appears to be NSA sex and you didn't seem to have any idea it was going on should have you very concerned. Specifically you should be trying to figure out how long she's cheated on you, how many times, and with how many people.

Anyway that's my 2 cents. I think you're handling things as well as can be expected. Good luck.

BeyondRage posted 9/5/2019 15:14 PM

OK, I guess I am not too great at communicating or stating things.
(1) She is not using I didn't come to race as a reason for anything. She stated it a number of times in her journal, some before any of this started. NO, SHE NEVER ASKED ME TO COME, and I AM NOT blaming myself for anything. I just stated her comments were something I did acknowledge..
(2) This has not been a constant fuck fest with two guys that she made up excuses to go places to do. She ran in the races she went to, and since I now have a LOT more details, there was NOT a lot of sex as a percentage of the opportunities.

When I "regroup" and my emotions calm a little I will try to write a much more complete accounting of what I have discovered. It is fucking hard.!!!

So a few major points

*** The girlfriend IS IN AN OPEN MARRIAGE. I have talked to her husband. Now I know someone will surely decide I have been set up and it was some guy friend but I have been offered to sit down and meet him if I do not believe it if i want to.
*** OM 1 is a real creep. She basically dumped him for OM2 and picked someone he knew because he pissed her off
*** Girlfriend actually was not a monster. Actually told my wife when it looked like she was getting close to crossing the line that maybe she should have the talk with me.

This is all on my wife. I am not responsible for any of it. I GET THAT!!!!! And I am fucking mad as hell. And hurt.

There was not a lot of texting. My wife also refused repeated requests for photos and videos especially from OM1 to the point it was probably one of the things that got him basically dumped, along with him pressing her constantly to come "visit" her when I went out of town.
I have seen the requests and responses so no I am not just taking her word.

It is not going to be in my best interests to personally confront or threaten either of these two. What do I gain other than probably hurting someone and winding up posting bail. They are blocked and she could have deleted a lot and did not. Unless I go to one of these races it is highly unlikely I will run into either of them

She has told me that she will do whatever I want. Quit job if I want. Quit running in any races if I ask.

I did not bring up polygraph. She did. Told me that after I am done asking anything I want to ask, which I will post more about, that she would personally schedule test. She is in a very bad depressed state, and she deserves it.

I am still processing and trying to be as rational as possible, which is not my strongest quality when I am this agitated.

She has contacted a few therapists to get information. I told her if she goes to a therapist she is signing off on me being allowed to be advised of the results and to meet with the therapist. I am NOT having some moron i do not even know telling her not to divulge stuff or to start shifting this to her fucking childhood. I am not buying that. !!!

To end, please understand I do accept that she had sex with two other men. At this point I do NOT believe that she has done this before, but I will get that confirmed with a polygraph test or tests. And before the debate on polygraphs starts, my company has used them, the government uses them, and I will use it. Not debates please.

Thanks to those who are helping me.

[This message edited by BeyondRage at 3:16 PM, September 5th (Thursday)]

beenthereinco posted 9/5/2019 15:41 PM

Hi BR,
Sounds like you're getting what you need so far as you work through this shitshow. I think you've got your head on straight and know as much or more than anyone at this stage. The journal being a contemporaneous account of the Affairs really helps especially since it does not seem like it was written with you in mind at all.

I cannot imagine that if you try to Reconcile that you will ever be able to allow your WW to travel for races alone again and I would really caution you against going to any race that you think the OM (1 or 2) will be at. You sound remarkably good as it relates to them but really man don't take a chance there. It would take someone almost superhuman effort to not pop one of these guys in the mouth if you see them somewhere talking to your WW. Hate to see you end up in jail for giving someone what they deserve but the law doesn't really allow for justified assault.

Good luck to you.

faithfulman posted 9/5/2019 16:00 PM

Posted by BeyondRage


OM 1 is a real creep. She basically dumped him for OM2 and picked someone he knew because he pissed her off

Dude, I know this is your wife I am talking about, but she appears to be at least an equal creep to OM1.

OM1 wasn't a good fit so she picked another guy, and deliberately chose someone he knew to twist the knife.

And where did you fit into all this? She was coldly choosing affair partners. Apparently she was going to be fucking someone outside of her marriage. You were immaterial.

I always sat it's easy to divorce someone else's spouse on the internet, so I understand filing, etc. isn't easy.

But man, the complete lack of morals, loyalty, empathy, and the utter coldness of her process... you have to think about and understand what you're getting if you decide to try and reconcile.

steadychevy posted 9/5/2019 16:08 PM

I consider it a very good sign that your WW suggested a poly. I used a poly with my WW and have entered some debates here about their effectiveness. I believe they are a tool to be used and are useful.

Your WW may have offered up a poly thinking that, after she does all you ask, you may decide not to do the poly. Just a possibility. It could be that she is entirely committed to doing one. Follow through. Do it.

With all that it is beyond my comprehension still how your WW (and mine) could very casually have sex with another man (men) and come home as carefree and guilt free as can be. I don't understand that mindset. It is something she needs to work on.

I think you're on the right track regarding access to the IC. It will likely be from my experience that there were all these FOO issues and childhood problems. Something did affect her so that when she had opportunity, she wanted to, she thought she could get away with it so she went all in. Selfish, self-centered, lacks empathy, only cares about self, entitled, whatever but why all these?

ETA: Good points by faithfulman that posted just before me.

[This message edited by steadychevy at 4:10 PM, September 5th (Thursday)]

Thumos posted 9/5/2019 16:11 PM

And where did you fit into all this? She was coldly choosing affair partners. Apparently she was going to be fucking someone outside of her marriage. You were immaterial.

Agreed. The very business like coldness of how she approached this and the fact that it would have gone for a long undetermined length of time (with in all probability addironal partners).

Good luck, man. This is an evil act of toxic abuse. Weíre all wishing you the very best. I canít really add much more.

fareast posted 9/5/2019 16:16 PM

You have been heard. I certainly understand the rage and the hurt. Take some time for you. Do what you do to burn off excess energy and anger. You will be on an emotional rollercoaster. Eat healthy, be active, exercise, get sleep with aids if necessary. It is a shitshow but you will get through it. You seem to be well grounded. Everything you said is spot on. Good luck.

SumofOne posted 9/5/2019 16:22 PM

I too felt like you when I first posted. All I heard was you need to end it. That wasn't what I wanted to hear so I got upset. We are also used to defending our wives and while it is ok for you are me to say something bad about them we can't stand for some stranger to do it.

Here is what I can tell you. My wife had never been physical with someone but after detailing what was going on most people said they believed she had been. I considered it but I "knew" my wife. Guess what...she was physical.

Try to take in even the things you don't want to hear. You are obviously very smart and love your wife a great deal. If you are set on trying to make it work these same people will give you excellent advice on how to proceed. Some of it is counter-intuitive but it might be that stuff is the most important.

Good luck. I am so sorry you are in this situation.

Booyah posted 9/5/2019 16:27 PM

I think you're doing good.....pressing forward trying to gather the info you need to see ultimately all you're dealing with.

At the end of the day as much as you'll want more (the why's etc) you'll ultimately be left with is this something you can get over?

She may show herself (over time) to be someone that is willing to do everything in her power to help you heal from this and to try and figure out the why(s). So much so that you're willing to attempt (repeat ATTEMPT) to try reconciliation with her.

That said, what all of this comes down to, is whether or not this is a shit sandwich that you'd be able to get over.

Some people can where others it just winds up being a deal breaker.

You're still sorting through the crime scene.
Take care of yourself.
You don't have to make the final decision right now.
Give it time.

It looks like your man enough to stand up to this shit situation and confront it head on. Rug sweeping doesn't appear to be your M.O.

You can't change what you're unwilling to confront.

That change may be you and your wife going in different directions in the future (divorce).

It may mean realizing that your relationship that you both had is dead and can you start from scratch and build something new?

It may mean being willing to attempt R and getting into it 2-3 yrs and finding out it just won't work for you...or 5 yrs yrs from now.

Nobody is saying any of this is easy but sticking your head in the sand and hoping it goes away (or just flat out lying to yourself) is NO WAY TO DEAL WITH THIS!!!

Looks like you're confronting this head on!!

Stick around as you'll need help getting through this clusterfuck.

Michigan posted 9/5/2019 16:29 PM

The girlfriend IS IN AN OPEN MARRIAGE. I have talked to her husband.

BeyondRage

Both the husband and wife see sex as no big deal. So no problem.


The basic problem is that you see sex as a big deal and she doesnít.

Michigan


You can talk it over and go to therapy for years and it will boil down to the above.

Your wife likes you and her life with you. To her it wasnít personal it was only sex.

What you didnít know wouldnít hurt you. You would never find out. If you did you would have a fit and then realize how important your family was to you. In the end nothing much would change.

To you it's extremely personal and you can't wrap your mind around it not being the same for her.

Cognitive dissonance is a concept in social psychology. It is the discomfort felt by a person who holds conflicting ideas, beliefs or values at the same time. ... Cognitive dissonance theory says that people have a bias to seek consonance between their expectations and reality.

You thought that having sex with your wife was special and that made you feel special. Now you find out that to your wife sex is as special as shaking hands. Thatís quite a realization.

[This message edited by Michigan at 4:49 PM, September 5th (Thursday)]

M1965 posted 9/5/2019 16:43 PM

Hi BR,

This has been a hell of a hard thing for you to come to grips with, but I have to say that you are doing the right things with a drive, stability and resilience that many would envy.

You are steadily establishing the facts, shining light into dark corners, and getting insight into the character of everyone who was involved.

I can see why some of the posts here are frustrating to read, but the reason why there are so many conspiracy theories and so much doubt about the integrity and intent of anyone involved in infidelity is because - sadly - those things have genuinely occurred in other cases.

When I "regroup" and my emotions calm a little I will try to write a much more complete accounting of what I have discovered. It is fucking hard.!!!

Please try to build in some time away from focusing on this, BR. It is a hugely emotive issue to deal with, and if you do not cut yourself some slack and schedule some time-outs, you will end up exhausted. And that will do no-one any good.

As an athlete/sportsman, I am sure you know about nutrition and looking after yourself, but please make sure that you do not neglect yourself because your focus is on this.

Do you have pals you could visit, or hobbies you could do, to give yourself regular breaks and focus on other things? It could even just be going to a movie, or going to workout. Anything that takes your mind somewhere else.

It is not going to be in my best interests to personally confront or threaten either of these two. What do I gain other than probably hurting someone and winding up posting bail. They are blocked and she could have deleted a lot and did not. Unless I go to one of these races it is highly unlikely I will run into either of them.

A great many people indulge in revenge fantasies, but life is not a Martin Scorsese movie. The reality is that jails are full of people who thought they could act like a 'Goodfella' and get away with it.

The truth is that beyond the possible cathartic release in the moment or the delusion that we are somehow evening the score, even a world class pounding with a Louisville Slugger does not undo a single thing or reduce the pain of betrayal. It just means we may wind up getting sued by a lowlife POS, or doing time. So is it a wise choice to become obsessed with hurting someone else when we should be focusing on dealing with our own pain? The answer has to be 'no'.

She has told me that she will do whatever I want. Quit job if I want. Quit running in any races if I ask.

That is good, but it will be a while until you feel calm enough to put together a plan to build a 'safe' new dynamic with your wife. So it would not be smart to make too many drastic moves immediately. For example, if you end up going the divorce route, it is better for you for your wife to be working and earning than unemployed and without an independent means of support.

When you feel more settled, and if you are going to stay together, the two of you can sit down and figure out all the ways your wife can keep herself out of trouble, and prove to you that she is doing it.

The two of you are intelligent people, and I am sure that you can find some compromises along the line can work, and which may be more reasonable than a complete end to something, like your wife's running.

Obviously, it is important for your wife to get off the circuit she has been on, because she is bound to encounter her APs, but there have to be ways that your wife can continue to run that do not lead to her in a hotel room with some creep, or every woman who runs would be doing the same thing! So looking for those 'safe' options is something to explore before axing the hobby completely.

She is in a very bad depressed state, and she deserves it.

I think that hitting rock bottom is an essential part of a wayward spouse's journey towards regaining a realistic perspective on their actions and bursting the fantasy bubble in which their cheating occurred. A person cannot bounce back until they hit rock bottom.

She has contacted a few therapists to get information. I told her if she goes to a therapist she is signing off on me being allowed to be advised of the results and to meet with the therapist. I am NOT having some moron i do not even know telling her not to divulge stuff or to start shifting this to her fucking childhood. I am not buying that. !!!

Many people here go through a few therapists before they find a good one that strikes the right chord with them. In this case, your wife needs individual counseling. It is worth calling around to find one who knows about infidelity, because not all of them do.

Some marriage counselors are terrible. They can tell a betrayed spouse that unless they shut up and pretend infidelity never happened, they are the ones with the problem, and they need to do a lot of work on themselves! Which deserves the response, "Did you find your diploma in a box of Cheerios?", followed by, "Do you have the phone number of a better counselor that we can use?"

I am still processing and trying to be as rational as possible, which is not my strongest quality when I am this agitated.

To reiterate what I said at the beginning of this post, you are doing a lot better than many of us did, and I think you already have a good handle on what you need. The endgame may not be clear at the moment, but I believe you are taking the right steps to achieve that clarity.


Striver posted 9/5/2019 16:59 PM

Things are moving fast, BeyondRage. You are doing great!

This is really early... I suppose someone has to say it. Based on your wife's conduct, I think the only likely way going forward as a couple would be a two way open marriage.

She can't hardly say no. If you don't have an interest, no problem. That would solidify things for you, I think.

I just don't think there is another way forward as a couple given what you know about her now.

Michigan posted 9/5/2019 17:14 PM

With all that it is beyond my comprehension still how your WW (and mine) could very casually have sex with another man (men) and come home as carefree and guilt free as can be. I don't understand that mindset. It is something she needs to work on.

Steadychevy


My analogy is someone growing up where everyone ate pork. Then they convert to a culture where itís a sin. They make feel truly terrible about breaking their promise and all the hurt they caused. But theyíre never going to get it on a gut level that eating bacon is bad.


ShutterHappy posted 9/5/2019 17:20 PM

One step at a time....

Why not talk to some friends? Go play football... it sounds stupid but getting out there will help a little.

You need a break.

steadychevy posted 9/5/2019 18:37 PM

"Did you find your diploma in a box of Cheerios?", followed by, "Do you have the phone number of a better counselor that we can use?"

Genius!!

As was stated - not all counsellors are created equal. I'm on my 3rd and she's great. Not great because she agrees with everything I say - great because I'm getting better, much better. Fire them if they're no good.

I should have included that her offering to quit running and/or quitting job is also a positive sign to me. I just don't understand how she could line up 2 guys with OM2 being used to punish OM1. I'll never understand something like that and you may never either, BeyondRage. You can't explain the unexplainable.

Striver posted 9/5/2019 20:04 PM

I should have included that her offering to quit running and/or quitting job is also a positive sign to me. I just don't understand how she could line up 2 guys with OM2 being used to punish OM1. I'll never understand something like that and you may never either, BeyondRage. You can't explain the unexplainable.

It's not unexplainable if you're horny and on the hunt for an AP, and don't care about your BS. Then, it makes perfect sense.

Look, if I ever cheated, I would be getting something out of it. It would be the real me, or the real me at that time.

I can forgive the sin of cheating. We all sin. Maybe it's because I understand the motivations for cheating that I have such a hard time explaining it away as "fog" or whatever. You do what you do.

I do not see much "fog" with this WW anyway. Could be good or bad depending on your POV. I do not want to push OP into anything, just trying to help. But I don't want to see a fellow BS get caught up in WW tears and a bunch of therapy when the what can't be overcome.

In this one WW just seems to have too much of a clear head about what she wanted. Lining up AP #2 does not indicate much "fog."

Newlifeisgreat posted 9/5/2019 20:13 PM

Seems to me that you are doing just fine with the hell your wife has thrown you into.

It seems to me that it appears that her sleeping with the two guys is not a dealbreaker for you. What do you consider to be the straw that breaks the camelís back and will result in you filing?

Sharkman posted 9/5/2019 20:29 PM

I think that you are doing pretty well. You are driving action, not playing Ďpick meí and not accepting bullshit at face value. Honestly itís all they one can ask for at this stage.

Stay pissed off though.

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