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Caught Her By Accident

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ramius posted 9/9/2019 17:17 PM

You know there are thousands of women who face this situation everyday. 40’s, empty nest, etc etc.

Yet somehow most are able to deal with it without screwing other men.

Bladerunner2054 posted 9/9/2019 17:23 PM

BR, you're doing a great job. I'm sure you know you have a really long row to hoe. Years.

JS84 posted 9/9/2019 18:23 PM

Make sure with all this going on you're also taking care of yourself. Eating right, drinking fluids, etc. Exercise and hobbies can help you feel more grounded too.

BeyondRage posted 9/9/2019 19:02 PM

I am getting ready to leave my office, but I just need to respond to a couple of posts.

Davi, its OK for you to not have respect for me. From what I just read, you have a few problems on your hands of your own. my advice to you would be to keep your hands to yourself. Not sure where you are located, but in the US slapping your wife in the face no matter what she did can wind you up with more problems than not wanting to have sex with her. I hope you get some peace.

You know there are thousands of women who face this situation everyday. 40’s, empty nest, etc etc.
Yet somehow most are able to deal with it without screwing other men.

Ramius, you are exactly right. But I got one that did. I did not volunteer for that assignment but I have it in my lap. Now its how I deal with it that natters.

BR - Respectfully, she is doing nothing to show any remorse. She should have immediately quit all runs. Instead she asks you if she should. Not a good sign. She should have immediately cancelled all out of town trips. She should have immediately started IC. Instead she tells you the best “business decision” is to rig sweep. One of the OM asked to come down because he thought you might allow an open marriage? So she is still in contact. Very bad sign. Second OM is blowing up her phone asking where she is - so the affair would be ongoing absent your coming home early. No stopping by her. No unsolicited confession. No sign of understanding the enormity of what she has done to you. IMHO she is NOT R material. Good luck sir.

Not Sure,

You are a little behind the curve here
(1) there have been no more runs since this D Day. She volunteered to stop the races and told me she would refuse even in town because she did not want me to run into these guys and their friends by accident
(2) She CANNOT cancel all business travel. or she has to quit the job and until i am sure there will be no D that would be insane. She has changed hotels and only I know and her company where she will be. and she has offered to leave the damm phone on record all night.
(3) I have explained why I am not sending her to run into IC. Maybe you want to reread that
(4) the OM1 prick was just running his mouth and if you read her response you would understand she had no part in that. She asked him to bring a body bag if he tried that.
(5) OM2 blew up her phone when she ghosted him and never showed up that Friday night. Hasn't called since.
Now I still respect your opinion. You are entitled to it.

She has texted me and asked if it would be Ok to cook me dinner. I said yes. I'm hungry and did not get lunch.

Marz posted 9/9/2019 19:54 PM

Time will tell. Just keep your wits about you.

I agree with you. She is the one who needs to figure her end out. If she doesn't nothing changes.

dblackstar2002 posted 9/9/2019 20:09 PM

Hi Beyond Rage, Just wanted to say you and you alone know how to handle your situation. We have a saying here. People offer advice based on their unique experience, Take what suites you and your situation best and leave the rest. we are all different, you know what is your best way forward through this. Best of luck to you...

Butforthegrace posted 9/9/2019 20:10 PM

As far as the one sided open marriage thing. What infidelity isn't that??? Is a WW that fucks a guy at work exclusively three times a week without telling hubby not the same one sided open marriage.???

The phrase "one sided open marriage" is used here a lot in a sarcastic way. But my observation is that most of the threads here involving wayward wives involve a wife who, rightly or wrongly (mostly wrongly), feels she has a void of some sort that she can only fill with the AP, an emotional longing for the saccharine words he utters or something along those lines.

In your WW's case, it sounds like she actually wanted an open marriage as that phrase is commonly used to describe expressly polyamorous couples who believe that monogamy is narrow and restrictive, who want freedom to play on the side. Her whole creation of this second life she leads on the road with her racing and her swinging race friend and such, to me it doesn't sound like it's about racing at all. Rather, it's simply her way of preserving a segment of her life for herself outside of her marriage to you, one where she is free, if she feels like it from time to time, to have sex with other men.

That's why I'm worried about her being a safe partner. I gather that the whole part of her life around running is a big part of her life, one she enjoys and takes pains to preserve. She enjoys reserving a part of herself to be a woman who is not married.

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 9:00 PM, September 9th (Monday)]

Striver posted 9/9/2019 20:56 PM

I think it was both open marriage and cheating in this instance.

Obviously, WW did not inform BH of her aims. Open marriage has some "advantages," cheating different ones. She perhaps got the sense of power and control by cheating on hubby.

AND... the whole open marriage end of it was far SAFER for her because she always had hubby as a backstop! Think all of that stuff would feel so good if she was just a 48 year old single woman or divorcee, where her whole emotional stakes were at the mercy of this lifestyle? I would put forward that WW took the SAFE route in playing things the way she played them.

Again, WW was, is her own Plan A.

One thing I have thought about on this one is hysterical bonding, which nearly always comes up when someone's thinking of R. The "treat" of hysterical bonding for the BS. Frankly in this case, seems like it would just be more validation and goodies for WW.

Cooley2here posted 9/9/2019 21:21 PM

BR, other people get caught up in your pain because it brings theirs up. They might write what you consider extreme ideas. The saying around here “Use what you need and leave the rest”.
We also see bs take their anger out on posters because accepting what was done is too painful. Just remember they have been where you are.

anoldlion posted 9/9/2019 21:31 PM

You are the man! I thought there were others on SI that handled their situation well, but you take the first prize in my opinion. You really don't need advice, because as we use to say in the military, "You have all your s**t in one grid square". I am being serious when I say you could teach some of the BHs how to deal with cheating. You have an analytical approach to your situation. You haven't let this make you feel less than the man you are. So many men, when cheated on, lose themselves. I also agree with your definition of "plan A and plan B". I also like your approach to consequences. Too often people want to punish. Consequences are different from punishments. The dynamics of your marriage will likely change, but if you and your wife stay on the course you are on, you probably will make it. I sure hope you do. I do wish you well.

[This message edited by anoldlion at 9:32 PM, September 9th (Monday)]

NotSureAboutIt posted 9/10/2019 01:25 AM

BR - Respectfully, she is doing nothing to show any remorse. She should have immediately quit all runs. Instead she asks you if she should. Not a good sign. She should have immediately cancelled all out of town trips. She should have immediately started IC. Instead she tells you the best “business decision” is to rig sweep. One of the OM asked to come down because he thought you might allow an open marriage? So she is still in contact. Very bad sign. Second OM is blowing up her phone asking where she is - so the affair would be ongoing absent your coming home early. No stopping by her. No unsolicited confession. No sign of understanding the enormity of what she has done to you. IMHO she is NOT R material. Good luck sir.

Not Sure,

You are a little behind the curve here RESPECTFULLY, YOU ARE IGNORING MY POINTS
(1) there have been no more runs since this D Day. She volunteered to stop the races and told me she would refuse even in town because she did not want me to run into these guys and their friends by accident SHE SHOULD HAVE JUST QUIT. ASKING YOU MEANS SHE WOULD STILL DO IT IF YOU WOULD LET HER GET AWAY WITH IT. NOT A GOOD SIGN.
(2) She CANNOT cancel all business travel. or she has to quit the job and until i am sure there will be no D that would be insane. She has changed hotels and only I know and her company where she will be. and she has offered to leave the damm phone on record all night. SHE COULD TEMPORARILY CANCEL ALL TRAVEL. CLAIM A FAMILY EMERGENCY. THIS CLOSE TO DDAY IT IS EXTREMELY DISRESPECTFUL TO PACK HER BAGS AND SPEND NIGHTS AWAY FROM YOU.
(3) I have explained why I am not sending her to run into IC. Maybe you want to reread that . I DID NOT SUGGEST THAT YOU SEND HER. I SAID SHE SHOUKD ALREADY BE THERE ON HER OWN TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT IS WRONG WITH HER AND HOW TO BECOME A SAFE WIFE AGAIN,
(4) the OM1 prick was just running his mouth and if you read her response you would understand she had no part in that. She asked him to bring a body bag if he tried that. SHE SHOULD NOT BE HAVING ANY CONTACT WITH ANY OM. SHE SHOULD BE MILITANTLY NC. HE SHOULD HAVE HAD NOWAY TO CONTACT HER AND IF HE DID, SHE SHOUKD ABSOLUTELY REFUSE TO RESPOND. THT IS CLEARLY NOT HAPPENING
(5) OM2 blew up her phone when she ghosted him and never showed up that Friday night. Hasn't called since. NOR HAS HE RECEIVED A NO CONTACT LETTER. YOU ALSO HAVE NOT TXTED HIM AND LET HIM KNOW THAT YOU ARE HER HUSBAND AND HE NEEDS TO STAY AWAY. YOU TALK TOUGH, BUT NO ACTION. YOUR WIFE HAD HAD ZERO CONSEQUENCES.SHE IS GOING BACK ON THE ROAD WITH OM 2 LOOKING TO COMPLETE THE SEX DATE YOU INTERRUPTED. WHAT MAKES YOU THINK SHE WILL NOT HOOK UP WITH OM 2 OR FIND OM 3.
Now I still respect your opinion. You are entitled to it.

She has texted me and asked if it would be Ok to cook me dinner. I said yes. I'm hungry and did not get lunch.

Me- 49M

free2016 posted 9/10/2019 02:48 AM

What about your daughters? Are you going to expose WW or cover her dirty secrets and play mom and dad are all good? I'm personally in favour of exposing a cheater, particularly to adult kids. Children tend to idealize parents, and WW with such a selfish streak in character should not be giving advices to daughters without disclosing her own behaviour. Their relationship will change too and this would be another consequence for her. She betrayed her daughters as well as you and it is on her to earn their trust and respect back.
How do you feel about it? Would you be ashamed if your DDs knew about As and you stayed with WW? Are you worried that they would take her side?

Trdd posted 9/10/2019 07:39 AM

I think Butforthegrace hits on something above that I articulated also about BeyondRages situation... that it is different from many WWs in that there was no real EA component.

However, I am not sure if WW actually wanted an open marriage. That may sounds weird to say given her actions but hear me out. First, an open marriage means both partners can have sex outside of marriage. most people, even those who have affairs, don't really want that logically. It's possible she does but I bet she doesn't really want that when all this is exposed to the light of day. Second, when posom1 suggested meeting her husband, she put an end to that quickly, realizing that an open marriage wasn't going to ever be discussed. Now, she may have told posom1 that that's what she wanted or was in or was considering, but if she did it was probably a justification for her own actions.

Third, and perhaps most importantly, I think we need to remember that sex is a powerful thing. Feeling young and desirable is a powerful thing. This is all conjecture but it makes sense to me... WW hears about the open marriage idea and starts fantasizing. Soon she opens her eyes a bit and says to herself, wow, a lot of guys give me the eye at these races. Why not smile at them a bit and have just a little fun? Next, this is fun! It feels good to have these young guys flirting with me. I've still got it! I feel good,let me have another drink. Wow, he's really flirting now... he wants me.

We all know where that path goes. My point is that there was probably never some grand desire or plan for an open marriage. She was exposed to the idea, fantasized, took a few tentative steps, fantasized some more, drank some more and then she was in bed with posom 1. No EA, but plenty of feeling desirable and attractive. Feeling young again. The lure is powerful. On top of that, she has a high sex drive so that adds to the temptation. When she is found out, all this crumbles like the fantasy it was.

This type of affair, imo, is more recoverable than many others if Beyond Rage decides to R. I posted that earlier but these factors, for me, make R more achievable: No EA, no extensive trickle truth and fog to deal with, no written attacks or demeaning comments about BS to posom, the sex was not in and around the home andnit didn't seem to change how BS was treated in the bedroom or family room. Ww got her fix occassionally, felt young and desirable but kept it compartmentalized.

rugswept posted 9/10/2019 08:01 AM

Let me start out by saying that BeyondRage has handled this whole thing more methodically and sensibly than any BS I have yet seen on any forum.

He collected things, investigated it to a reasonable completion, evaluated what it meant and went on to assess actions and consequences. Hopefully once this whole episode is over he'll stay around to advise others. He's more level headed, logical and impassionate on how to deal with this than the rest of us could only hope for.

I am not dimissing the reality of the pain, uncertainty and loss of trust we all suffer.

It's apparent his wife has a high sex drive and is an incredible athlete. She's 48, in the mid life crisis range, and is enamored that the young studs still see her as the attractive woman she is and find her desirable.

1. she found herself allured to sex outside marriage, probably stimulated by her wayward friend
2. she got a lot of attention from other young men athletes
3. she got into NSA sex that never became a big time activity in her M and the A's didn't subtract much from other things
4. she was into "a little fun on the side" with no real emotional attachment
5. she meant to keep it all secret and had no interest with the OMs except for casual hookups, almost like more socializing with the race gang.
6. from all accounts, she's always been a good mom.

She lost her way and dropped it all instantly when she got found out.

Hopefully BeyondRage with find a way to R. Yes, she ffffed up. I don't get the feeling she'd ever risk things again. She knows now that she'll likely get caught.

There's a lot to this M and a lot with this family and throwing it all away will forever change so many lives when it really was a case of a WW getting into mid life crisis stupid mode. There's way more gained saving it as opposed to dissolving it all because she was foolish.

Odonna posted 9/10/2019 08:48 AM

BR,

I would like to know more about her journal of that is OK. Has she always kept a journal? Is it filled with all her life events? Was this a special “affair journal” devoted just to that?

Do her entries celebrate the affair? Are they emotional as well as factual? What does she say about how she feels about the affair? Does she say anything about what would happen if you found out?

I ask because, typically, a journal is never expected to be read by others, so it is the purest form of self-disclosure. In her journal, what do you see of her character? It is very different to enthuse about an affair and to celebrate it than to talk about one’s MLC and fading beauty and self-doubt and angst.

I think you are doing a great job. But the real key to whether or not she is R material may lie in her journal.

[This message edited by Odonna at 9:20 AM, September 10th (Tuesday)]

Thumos posted 9/10/2019 09:03 AM

It's apparent his wife has a high sex drive and is an incredible athlete. She's 48, in the mid life crisis range, and is enamored that the young studs still see her as the attractive woman she is and find her desirable.

I know you probably didn’t mean it this way but this is coming across to me as part of a trend I’ve noted in both secular and religious settings - where women seem to get something of a pass (we’ve all read stories of marital therapists, for example, who seem biased in favor of women and subtly try to get a betrayed husband to shoulder blame, almost like a scapegoat mechanism — indeed, this happened to me and it is commented on far too frequently to be happenstance).

I’ve read too many threads that seem to devolve into some kind of version of defending a wayward wife because she was manipulated by a player, was weak, or just needed to feel like an attractive woman again. In fact one thread here on JFO recently deteriorated quickly into something of a defense of a WW who was “manipulated” into sending pictures of her breasts.

Now, before Odonna reports me to the SI authorities, I’m not being sexist. In fact I’m being the opposite. Let’s do a thought experiment to demonstrate: Because if someone posted about a 48 year old wayward husband who was athletic and had a high sex drive and just “lost his way” by falling into the sack with a couple of young hotties at a triathlon or something, I’m pretty sure the women here on SI would come unglued.

I’m noting a double standard that seems to be embedded even in things like our various state divorce laws that more often put even betrayed husbands at a financial disadvantage relative to a wayward wife.

The wife in this case didn’t lose her way. She made a series of deliberate and what appear to be coldly calculating choices. The diary and journal is great insofar as it provides a start to assemble a detailed timeline. It’s also frankly disturbing, as if she was notching the bedpost so she could go back and re read the journal later and fondly remember sexual escapades.

(Or, perhaps more disturbing, as a prophylactic protection against a “which lie did I tell?” scenario where she’s having trouble keeping a false story straight.)

[This message edited by Thumos at 9:19 AM, September 10th (Tuesday)]

rugswept posted 9/10/2019 10:16 AM

In no uncertain terms I condemn WW for being a cheater who violated her sacred M vows to satisfy her own selfish feeling and needs.

I am not here to excuse her in any way. The only mitigating things in this story is it does look like it was purely NSA sex. That is still a horrible situation. But, it wasn't one of those A's where the BH was treated like sh** where she was in this EA and the BH was considered a loser.

She was acting selfish and stupid. No excuses allowed.

steadychevy posted 9/10/2019 10:43 AM

Sometimes it only matters that the WS cheated. It might be an EA, ONS, kissing and groping. Sometimes that betrayal is enough. It's up to the BS if it's something the BS can come to terms with or not. Sometimes wild, monkey sex, swinging from the chandelier sex, bad mouthing the BS can also be gotten beyond and R can happen. It's up to the BS.

Whichever path you eventually chose, BeyondRage, there will be some who will still encourage you to go the other way. IT IS UP TO YOU.

Either path is hell. It's a choice between 2 terrible choices. Maybe 3 if you just stay in limbo forever which I do not believe you will do. Whatever choice you make I encourage you to put your all into it.

Striver posted 9/10/2019 12:32 PM

I agree with Thumos on the blindness to WW versus WH.

I do not think anyone would claim that a WH, caught in the act, who has been faithful for a whole 5 weeks, would be "sure never to cheat again." They'd be laughed off the board.

With female infidelity steadily rising, with us all supposed to be equal, I think we can hold WW to account in the same way we hold WH to account. It seems to be primarily men who do not want to do this. I really don't get it. My mom was a good wife to my dad, I recognize that. My ex is garbage. They are two different people. Good women and bad women, just like good men and bad men.

If this family is destroyed, it falls on the shoulders of WW. Just like it would were the genders reversed. No one here would guilt trip a BW here to keep the family together when she was no longer comfortable doing that. BH should be accorded the same respect.

Getting back to the particulars of OP, it strikes me that WW's behavior seems more like what a man would do when cheating. I take that into account. The NSA sex was what she wanted, so no bonus point for me there. Again, WW is her own Plan A in this one. As they often are anyway. I worry she is just playing the role of the remorseful wife here, checking all of the right boxes.

All affairs are awful, just in different ways. Here I would be wondering what the sex means if she could keep everything going with BH and satisfy herself with the APs as well. Again, seems like BH's sexuality was theirs, whereas WW's sexuality was hers. Unequally yoked.

ShutterHappy posted 9/10/2019 15:17 PM

The problem with people who justify a bad action, is that they simply want to avoid the consequences of their bad decisions.

Did you ever ask your daughter a variant of "who spilled the milk? Did you broke the vase?" "Nooooo, it wasn’t me".

The math is simple and a 4 year old gets it: tell the truth and you get consequences. Consequences are ... unpleasant. Lie and there’s no unpleasantness, maybe.

But when you avoid the unpleasantness, you don’t learn. Touching a burning hot plate? It doesn’t happen multiple times. My father once, carelessly chop wood and missed the wood, whacked the axe firmly in his hand. It only happened once. It’s a bit unpleasant.

So the WS has to face the music, get the consequences and the consequences have to be bad enough that there’s a reasonable chance it won’t happen again.

What I suggest to you is ask yourself if the consequences your WW is getting is unpleasant enough that the lesson will be learned. The next time an old acquaintance reaches out to her and ask to go do a 5k run, she throws up.

[This message edited by ShutterHappy at 3:19 PM, September 10th (Tuesday)]

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