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Caught Her By Accident

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LemonCurd posted 9/22/2019 18:18 PM

I wasn't planning on posting anywhere on this site, more lurking while I try to read and read and read the goldmine of advice on this forum to help with the timeworn shitshow that has befallen my relationship.

I will say out of all the dozens of threads i have worked my way through, this one stands out for the avalanche of what I feel is combative nonsense and projection being aimed at BR.

He seems to be handling it like a boss and it seems to me some people are posting without actually bothering to read what he says before hand. His wife blew up the marriage with a reckless and selfish cheating spree and BR wants to tentatively reconcile (his choice)

She seems to be doing everything she can and more to earn a sliver of forgiveness and trust back, she seems to me (for what it is worth) to be absolutely shit scared that her hubby is going to decide that actually it was a deal breaker and so is pre-empting every possible problem she can think of ....

What she did was disgusting. She thought she would never be caught so it didn't matter and what she was doing was harmless.

Maybe it was the alchohol, maybe it was the other guys ass or just jealousy of her slimy friends lifestyle. Whatever it was she seems pretty convinced now that she was very much in error on all fronts and is determined not to jeapardize thinsg again.

Of course the journal is authentic she would have to be a sociopath to have forged it. Her remorse sounds not just genuine but deepfelt and filled with shame for the hurt she caused BR ... maybe she had a plan at the back of her mind for if she did ever get busted (so what) maybe she planned to lie through her teeth if caught (more likely)

But in the end she crumpled and didnt risk a single lie or gaslighting and by the sounds of it she has humbled herself and is reevaluating her choices??

Anyway good luck BR, I hope the polygraph goes well. I hope your wife manages to hold it together while you visit your daughters and I hope she continues to maintain total transparency with you and works hard to prove this genuinely was just a one off.

ps - how was her night away? Did she manage to do enough to keep you from tossing and turning all night.

Unlikely I will post again, thanks to everyone for sharing your advice both good and bad throughout the site, it really is a special place

BeyondRage posted 9/22/2019 18:29 PM

BeyondRage, I don't completely agree with your perspective. I think you are in the rationalization stage of trying to figure out the "grade" of her betrayal, and it appears you are trying to take the raw edge off of her betrayal.

Faithfulman, fair enough. I guess time will tell on that one, as on the last sentence. none of us has a crystal ball, and that is where advice turns to predictions of certainty.

Having said that I don't think you have crossed any lines or gone after any posters. You have even had some guy go after you personally talking about how he doesn't respect you, and you handled it well.

Thank you. And yes, from a guy who belted his wife.

ps - how was her night away? Did she manage to do enough to keep you from tossing and turning all night.

Lemon Curd, thanks. She left her damm phone on all night, got take out and brought it to hotel room, and was texting all night. I didn't toss and turn all night. I answered a lot of her texts to communicate and did go to sleep real late. if i had no plans to do a polygraph I probably would have been worse, and to be honest, I believe I am OUT OF INFIDELITY , but not out of the collataral damage and won't be for a long time.

I do not feel that she is that stupid offering to sign up for a polygraph test tomorrow, if she was cheating again.

Western posted 9/22/2019 18:59 PM

hey, you attack people here who try to help you but give your wife a pass. That's on you. You have to live with that. I don't answer to you and you can say anything you want but I will protect the good people on this board who have offered you advice and spent their time on you, just to get attacked by you.

And I didn't call you anything you accused me of calling you.

I am calling you out on attacking those who are trying to help you.

You own that !!!!! Not me.

Western posted 9/22/2019 19:00 PM

you have a right to be an ass but you don't get the right to not be responded to.

Understand that these people have reached out to you and care.

I don't anymore.

Reserve your anger for yourself but spare the people here of it

[This message edited by Western at 7:09 PM, September 22nd (Sunday)]

waitedwaytoolong posted 9/22/2019 19:01 PM

I think you have handled this very well. You owe no one here anything with the exception of following the guidelines set by SI.

It’s your life and you are closer to the situation than anyone else. The best we can do is give you collective advice based on our own experiences. Since those will all vary, the advice you get will also.

The one piece I can give you is don’t gloss over the anger you feel. I’m not telling you that you need to walk because of it, but just know it will get worse before it gets better.

Imagine your wife poured gasoline all over your house with your kids in it and lit it on fire. You would be scrambling around first getting your kids and even your wife out and to try to put it out. You wouldn’t have time or mental capacity for anger at her. You have things that have to be fixed

But later as you looked at the charred house, the anger would come. That’s what will most likely be coming for you. Just be prepared.

Trdd posted 9/22/2019 19:49 PM

I may be wrong buy I strongly assume BeyondRage does not need people re-adjudicating the early facts of his initial response to his WW's affair. He has made his strategy and is executing with confidence. He is not asking any of us to continue to comment or second guess his initial strategy. Yet people keep doing it.

And many are making all sorts of assumptions while projecting a lot of their own experiences on his situation.... and the projections don't always fit. Many, many people post here once or twice, then leave... never to return. I think this dynamic is a core reason why. BR hasn't left; instead he is willing to stay but push back on the posts he doesn't agree with. More power to you BR!

BR., at this stage in your strategy... what could you use from the community that might help?


Butforthegrace posted 9/22/2019 21:30 PM

I may have not made it clear, and I understand that to many any infidelity falls into the big giant bucket. I do not feel that way.
IT DOES NOT MAKE IT OK SO PLEASE DO NOT INTERPRET IT THAT WAY.

To me, a one night stand at a GNO differs from what my wife did ( which it worse), and differs dramatically from these affairs where they are meeting at work, after work telling each other they love each other, amd all the rest.

I agree with you on this point, but I think that the "line in the sand" acts are personal and subjective to each betrayed spouse. I think you know your own heart well and understand your personal trigger points.

There are two prongs to R that must occur in tandem for R to work. One of them is for the WW to figure out what is broken in her moral compass, what lead her to decide to arrogate the right to have sex outside the marriage, repeatedly, and to sneak around and lie to you so that she could continue to do so. Some refer to this as figuring out the “whys”.

Phrased another way, you know your WW is the kind of woman who will have sex outside the marriage, casually and repeatedly, and only stop when caught. You know this because this is what she did. When people show you, with their actions, who they are, you should believe them.

To he safe, she has to change fundamentally who she is. It’s not enough for her to shed a few crocodile tears and promise she won’t, in the future, fuck another man. She promised that to you already. You know how successful she was a keeping that promise. Unless and until she figures out what is wrong with her and fixes it, she is not a safe spouse.

Changing behavior - such as no more running races away from home, or cloistering herself on business trips - is just a prophylactic. She might be able to “white knuckle” it for a while, but as you note, she had a Jones for the taste of the free and single life, and that Jones isn’t going to go away without a lot of work by her. I don't think either you or her want a life where, every time she is on the road, she has to lock herself into a hotel room, eat take-out from a cardboard box, and ping you every 5 minutes by phone to confirm she's not fucking some other dude.

I think most of the posters here on your thread who have been raising suspicion about your WW are circling around this concept. Of course, the nature of these forums is that we can only respond based on information you provide, and so far you’ve not provided any details suggesting what your WW is doing to try to fix her broken moral compass and turn herself into a safe spouse.

The second is that “ephemeral matter of the heart” – do you believe she had empathy for you, will do everything she can to help you heal, and that her love and desire for a committed monogamous marriage with you is true? It is an important question to explore with her. More than once while reading your thread I’ve wondered if perhaps she really does crave a more open, swinging lifestyle. I think it would be advisable to have an honest discussion with her about this. The last thing you want is to have to be a marriage cop for the rest of your life, or, in the alternative, have a wife who feels like she is living in a jail cell because she doesn’t want monogamy.

I think you're working in the right direction. I would echo the posts above about being open and honest with your anger. You'll likely have a lot of it, for longer than you think.

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 7:11 AM, September 23rd (Monday)]

Lieswearmedown posted 9/22/2019 21:34 PM

I will say out of all the dozens of threads i have worked my way through, this one stands out for the avalanche of what I feel is combative nonsense and projection being aimed at BR.

He seems to be handling it like a boss and it seems to me some people are posting without actually bothering to read what he says before hand. His wife blew up the marriage with a reckless and selfish cheating spree and BR wants to tentatively reconcile (his choice)

This is exactly right. There are numerous challenges when providing constructive advice here.

1. Projecting our own circumstances onto the poster we are trying to help (and then getting annoyed and butthurt (a technical term) when she/he doesn’t do, say, or think what we do).

2. Following up by lashing out either out with verbal punches to his gut a la “she’s a whore!” or “she’s doing the entire cast of Game of Thrones and you’re blind to it!” That stuff is offensive (paraphrasing... “good luck with that mess you married or you’re not a real man or you’re a doormat or cruel shit like “do you think she was thinking about you when she was doing him?”).

3. Getting annoyed because you are being told you aren’t helping, having so much hubris that you feel justified telling him to leave the site, and then following it up with the equivalent of “you’re an ass for not listening to me AND telling me my advice isn’t helpful in your circumstances”.

4. Not reading. Sometimes this place is like a game of telephone.... the OP introduces the facts, some posters wildly speculate and predict some absolutely false, never substantiated narrative, and the next person comes along and reads it as fact. Then they give advice based on a false narrative, i.e., “your wife’s friend is ENCOURAGING her to cheat! SHE is the devil! or Your wife never ran a race. She left home with her running shoes, but she was doing ....it was all a carefully constructed brilliant plot to subvert even the cleverest of husbands! She is a Svengali!”

5. Not taking the original poster at his or her word. It’s one thing to ask if an alternative scenario could be possible because we all know our cheaters are liars, but it’s an entirely different thing to make up a plot or chain of events that never happened, maybe logistically could never happen, and then insist the OP is an idiot or naive or blind or whatever despite the fact that he has tried to repeatedly explain why he can’t accept your theory because it doesn’t fit with what. he. knows. to. be. true.

Beyond Rage has had to wade through a lot of crap here to get some solid advice. I’d be frustrated with this thread if I were him too. I’m glad he spoke up for himself and I’m speaking up for him too. If we think he isn’t seeing something clearly, we should ask him about it. That is why we are here. He is the one who has actually met his wife, is knee deep in figuring this shit out, and has more access to the truth. Telling him he’s some version of deficient because you don’t like it when he sets the record straight is not constructive. In fact, it is firmly in the destructive category.

Edited to add ButfortheGrace just knocked it out of the park!

[This message edited by Lieswearmedown at 9:36 PM, September 22nd (Sunday)]

Striver posted 9/22/2019 21:34 PM

BR,

As a divorced guy of a few years, I have a few thoughts at this point.

I have young kids. I likely would have stayed through a lot for them. Wasn't given the choice.

I was likely happier then than now. I would not go back. Intellectually. I could not know what I know. Cannot be that guy anymore. Wonder if you will feel the same in time.

You are ahead in getting info as you have said. Keeping a fairly level head. I wonder if that helps in R. So many BS in R seem to be rugsweepers or just can't bear to D. We all do what we gotta. But it is very personality dependent on the BS side.

I cannot intellectualize how R makes things better. I don't want someone spending the rest of their life making it up to me. Dont really want to forgive in the way I would need to either. D just as an ending to all that could have an appeal.

As long as you are in the marriage, I again recommend carving out something for yourself. Ic or just some new quiet activity away from WW. For Ww, maybe she should talk to you more and get away from the journal.

fareast posted 9/22/2019 21:48 PM

It seems like you have a good plan moving forward and you have this place figured out pretty well. Take care of you moving forward. I said in an earlier post that I doubt your WW will cheat again based on everything you have described. I stand by that. I spent years having to make similar assessments on future human behavior with a lot less to go on in many cases.
But if you decide to R you will still need time to process all of this as best you can. It took me about 18 months to two years.
If you don’t feel you need formal IC, that’s fine, but please confide in family and friends as needed. How much you want to share your feelings and triggers with your WW will probably change frequently. It’s a process. Time is your ally. In the end it takes two willing and committed partners to truly R. I agree with Trdd, and I hope you stay and participate. You obviously are capable of figuring out which opinions to ignore (which may include mine LOL) and which ones make sense for you. And of course you already know you can push back on those opinions that are, well,....not useful in your opinion. Good luck.

[This message edited by fareast at 10:00 PM, September 22nd (Sunday)]

ramius posted 9/23/2019 00:11 AM

And not to TJ, but Mrs Space Ghost and Mrs Walloped had to do some serious planning but yet somehow were worth candidates for R. And they did it because it was exciting and fun.

Had my wife been fucking her boss and going out of town with him, lied three times to my face, or spent afternoons three times a week for five months naked in her boyfriends apartment there would be shit happening that would make the go nuclear folks really proud and happy.

It’s good to remember that we are all different. Everyone has their own standards. Their own way of viewing things. Their own limits. What they do and do not find acceptable. What they will and will not tolerate. And what price they are willing to pay for a given course of action.

BH’s on this site have been all over the spectrum. From “get lost bitch” all the way to “I will stay no matter what.” And everything in between.

And what is sometimes hard to remember, is that just because it’s not what we would do, does make it wrong.

Example....I for one cannot see the point of Dubstep music. For me it feels like it’s shaving off IQ points when I hear it. But others find it inspiring.

BR, I hope your wife is truly crawling across the broken glass for you. Time will tell. And you don’t need to make any decisions now.

KingRat posted 9/23/2019 12:12 PM

ok Beyondrage, I have held off and let this thread play it's way out but you have crossed a line in attacking well respected posters here who are trying to help you out. You either need the help or not but your attacks against members of this board is unacceptable. Either take the advice and digest it or get out of here. But stop the nonsense. I felt badly for you at one point but I don't know what to think anymore.

What I do know is you are attacking us for your pain. Some of the apologists here will support you as I am not one of the more popular people here but I am done when people like you project your pain on us when we have gone through it ourselves.

The irony is simply astounding.

PassThis posted 9/23/2019 13:16 PM

What happened to the principle of "take the advice that is helpful to you and leave the rest?"

I admire BR and believe that he is acting consistently, honorably, and in accordance/congruence with what HE needs to "survive infidelity". I send him best wishes to receive the outcome that is best for him. At the end of the day, he has to live in accordance with his principles and deal with all the consequences which have been forced upon him by his WW solely due to her bad acts.

I express my support for BR along with those who have previously posted full support.

anoldlion posted 9/23/2019 15:27 PM

Here's my two cents. I think you are doing just fine in the way you are dealing with the situation. I have noticed that many who comment get punishment confused with consequences and advice. You get ones that no matter the situation, the answer is always divorce. You have those that almost get angry if you don't take to heart what they suggest. The fact is that you are the one in the situation. You listen to what is said to you and you make your own decisions. If your decision is unacceptable to others that's their problem because you are the one that has to live with your decision. I will say this. Many advise to polygraph. I would not put all my confidence in polygraphs. During my military career I spent some time in the intelligence field where periodically polygraphs were used. I have a degree in Criminal Justice, and after military retirement, worked in that field where, again, polygraphs were used. I said that to lead up to this. I have seen the polygraph beaten several times. I have seen it register a lie or an inconclusive when I knew the person was telling the truth. I have seen it say truth when the answer was a lie. Depending on who you believe, some say they are 90% accurate if administrated properly. Other test say they are only 70% accurate. I'm just saying it is a good tool but don't put any absolutes in its process. I do wish you well.

MickeyBill2016 posted 9/23/2019 15:38 PM

I have seen it register a lie or an inconclusive when I knew the person was telling the truth. I have seen it say truth when the answer was a lie.

Mr Oldlion - in your experience, is that true for a random person or were you working with military and gov't people, were you in criminal investigations or job security stuff?
Do you think there's a difference in testing a random wayward spouse and someone in the Law Enforcement /Military.

Are false positive and negative the from the machine, the operator or the person being tested?

SorrowfulMoon posted 9/23/2019 17:01 PM

Not taking the original poster at his or her word. It’s one thing to ask if an alternative scenario could be possible because we all know our cheaters are liars, but it’s an entirely different thing to make up a plot or chain of events that never happened, maybe logistically could never happen, and then insist the OP is an idiot or naive or blind or whatever despite the fact that he has tried to repeatedly explain why he can’t accept your theory because it doesn’t fit with what. he. knows. to. be. true.

I have to say this regrettably seems to be an ever increasing tendency on this site. I think many posters here would be well qualified to be award winning fiction writers.

It is only right and proper that the OP be warned of rug sweeping, hopium, being gaslighted, lied to etc etc but please recognise that most on this site have a modicum of intelligence and can identify BS when we read it.

The main purpose of this site is to help BS's get out of infidelity not write fantasy novels.

BeyondRage posted 9/23/2019 21:41 PM

what lead her to decide to arrogate the right to have sex outside the marriage, repeatedly, and to sneak around and lie to you so that she could continue to do so. Some refer to this as figuring out the “whys”.

BFTG

The lies were by ommision.I never questioned anything. She has repeatedly told me there is no excuse other than she let herself put into an opportunistic situation and did it. Her words were SELFISH and DISGUSTING.

The "whys" thing is very perplexing and confusing to me. I think just about any of them can be construed and changed to bull shit in that there are thousands with the same whys who do not do it. And if some shrink tells me the why does that make him right and make me feel better??? And if I tell the same story to five or ten shrinks i may get five or ten different answers.

My assessment is what I posted, just like any criminal
i had the opportunity
It was fun
I never thought I would get caught.
And I was able to totally compartmentalize it.

Pretty much exactly what a shit load of WW will not admit. Just very confusing, and I still think watching the Esther Perel You Tube was helpful to me regardless of whether or not I am a fan or hers or not. Certainly more helpful that what I read from the idiot Hartley who is a supposed expert.

As long as you are in the marriage, I again recommend carving out something for yourself. Ic or just some new quiet activity away from WW. For Ww, maybe she should talk to you more and get away from the journal.
What should she be doing that she is not. I am not orchestrating this for her but what am I missing.

Striver, I ve had the carve out, I did what i want she did her hobby and the result was not great. I actually think we need to carve out activities to do together. Working on that.
Great point on the journal . I do not give a shit if she continues to journal, but i told her I better not read anything in there that should have been discussed face to face with me, no matter how difficult.

I agree with Trdd, and I hope you stay and participate. You obviously are capable of figuring out which opinions to ignore (which may include mine LOL) and which ones make sense for you. And of course you already know you can push back on those opinions that are, well,....not useful in your opinion. Good luck.

Far East, I am not leaving. Im not the right guy to try to bully out of here. I go when i want to. And you are not one i ignore. LOL

BR, I hope your wife is truly crawling across the broken glass for you. Time will tell. And you don’t need to make any decisions now.

I believe she is and sometimes it is overwhelming. The word empathy has been used. How would that manifest it self other than her talking whenever i want, asking if i am Ok with virtually anything she does, etc.
She is also wanted physical attention. I know but she is not pushing.

. I have noticed that many who comment get punishment confused with consequences and advice. You get ones that no matter the situation, the answer is always divorce. You have those that almost get angry if you don't take to heart what they suggest

Anoldlion

Thanks. Going totally nuclear is ALWAYS an option. undoing it once it is done should it run out bad is NOT an option. Interesting your statement. i noticed on the Space Ghost thread a lot of it just would up with people arguing with one another on whether he should D or r. He stated from the very beginning it was D.
I totally understand a poly can be wrong or inconclusive. I believe the odds are in my favor and quite frankly right now I as I state earlier am more concerned about the answer to the GNO era. I would be my ass should is not breaking NC.

Checked the VAR. Nothing of interest other than chat with girlfriends in our social circle and her Mom and one of our daughters. Any suggestions if i should pull it???

I also want to address the IC thing. I am NOT sending her to IC. If there is therapy i am going to have my ass right there so I know and get to hear first hand what the therapist says.
I did a little investigating. I am not doing this IMAGO stuff where you repeat to each other what was said to help understanding. If i am in therapy with her I want someone digging with me there and have no doubts if the shit starts deviating to if i did the dishes right on Tuesday nights i am out of there.


firenze posted 9/23/2019 21:54 PM

FWIW I think you're handling yourself well. Whether you choose R or D is much less important than being assertive and deciding - without regard for your WW's opinion on the matter - what you will and won't tolerate and what the rules will be going forward. You're doing that and making sure that she understands that there will be consequences for failure. It's all you can do at this early stage.

Thumos posted 9/23/2019 22:42 PM

I have seen the polygraph beaten several times. I have seen it register a lie or an inconclusive when I knew the person was telling the truth. I have seen it say truth when the answer was a lie. Depending on who you believe, some say they are 90% accurate if administrated properly. Other test say they are only 70% accurate. I'm just saying it is a good tool but don't put any absolutes in its process.

I have heard this and accept it. My take on the polygraph is that it is not foolproof but rather another tool in the arsenal for BS’s who are walking around like zombies trying to discern reality. And regardless of whether it is 70 or 90 percent accurate, it is used in multiple fields and professional and political settings (for instance the U.S. Senate uses it). And that it can be used as a tool to induce truth-telling (i.e. parking lot confessions if the WW or WH feels they might fail). So it’s useful on just about every count, but not foolproof.

[This message edited by Thumos at 10:43 PM, September 23rd (Monday)]

Thumos posted 9/23/2019 22:49 PM

Checked the VAR. Nothing of interest other than chat with girlfriends in our social circle and her Mom and one of our daughters. Any suggestions if i should pull it???

You might consider other VAR locations. Just sayin’ - that’s what I did, and the results were the difference between D-Day and bleeding out during a continuing affair ad infinitum.

Of course, at this point, you might feel resentful about having to play detective, and you would be right: I don’t ever want to play detective again. It’s exhausting and a time-suck and a waste of life.

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