Return to Forum List

Return to Just Found Out

SurvivingInfidelity.com® > Just Found Out

You are not logged in. Login here or register.

Caught Her By Accident

Pages: 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · 5 · 6 · 7 · 8 · 9 · 10 · 11 · 12 · 13 · 14 · 15 · 16 · 17 · 18 · 19 · 20 · 21 · 22 · 23 · 24 · 25 · 26 · 27 · 28 · 29 · 30 · 31 · 32 · 33 · 34 · 35

LemonCurd posted 9/25/2019 20:43 PM

I find it very strange within this thread how little time people are prepared to give BR, this is phase one imo. Let the guy breathe and let his wife breathe too, he doesn't need to keep kicking the wasp nest his R seems to be going well and more will become clear in the coming months.

Questions still to be answered sure, heightened spidey sense activated sure but I wish my partner would jump through as many hoops as Mrs BR has been since day 1. I can't think of a single thing more she could have done other than quit which BR didnt want.

The way I see it a few times a month after the high of running her races she made very bad and selfish decisions. She found herself in a shitty immoral friend group surrounded by shitty immoral guys hitting on her and I assume telling her not to worry BR won't find out ... I can assume she was jealous of her friends freedom and with added alchohol and no fear of being caughtshe took the plunge.

Utterly shitty and utterly selfish but in no way an indicator that she wants an open marriage, she just wanted occasional NSA fun as indicated by her reaction to number 1 shithead when he wanted more. At least that is how I have read the thread.

She now knows that there is no such thing as completely safe affair / cheating and it sounds like she is more than aware BR will for many years be keeping an eye out for even the tiniest red flags and he is not one for the pick me dance or forgiving again. Next betrayal her life turns to ash rather than the small contained blaze she is dealing with now, she strikes me as very smart woman (no i am not Mrs BR )

You guys might be right. She might need someone to talk to other than me or getting chastised by her parents

Does she not have a good friend who isnt the open marriage cheat she could confide in? Could you not direct her to another forum if you dont want her here?

My wife told me she actually would refuse to attend a race or run in one because she knows me and what could happen

Can I ask is this the primary reason she does not want to attend? If you were more relaxed and less likely to plant their faces into the floor would she consider running still if there were clear boundaries ie no after run activity at all?

Great news she will go for a non travelling job if one arises, and great news you guys managed to be intimate again. I hope she cried tears of joy after and thanked the gods of R you didnt leave right after to the spare bed !!

Agree with the phone stuff keep her old phone for a few months although if the second shithead contacted her I imagine he would have via the friend or her office

Enjoy your upcoming trips. Think hard about your poly questions.

[This message edited by LemonCurd at 8:44 PM, September 25th (Wednesday)]

Marz posted 9/25/2019 20:45 PM

In business there is a root cause analysis. If that's not addressed/fixed you could face this again.

You see repeats and false R's here weekly. You don't want to go through this again.

Upfront most if they stay will tow the line. Long term is what you need to address.

Being a marriage warden will get old.

True R takes @ 2-5 years with no guarantees

Good luck, I hope you make it

Trdd posted 9/25/2019 22:49 PM

This is pure speculation and a bit out of left field but I wonder what role the runner's high-- endorphin rush that can last an hour or two-- might have in a situation like this. I am not saying it is an excuse or anywhere near the primary reason but could it play a role?

WS runs, feels great with the endorphin rush, younger guys checking her out, flirting after the race, and so it begins. There seem to have been at least three threads here in the past year about affairs connected to running and races. I was at a race this past weekend (spectating) and it made me think about this.

Striver posted 9/26/2019 00:25 AM

This is pure speculation and a bit out of left field but I wonder what role the runner's high-- endorphin rush that can last an hour or two-- might have in a situation like this. I am not saying it is an excuse or anywhere near the primary reason but could it play a role?
WS runs, feels great with the endorphin rush, younger guys checking her out, flirting after the race, and so it begins. There seem to have been at least three threads here in the past year about affairs connected to running and races. I was at a race this past weekend (spectating) and it made me think about this.

As a moral defense, it's right up there with the Twinkie defense from the 1970s.

I used to run more, did races, but was never fast and never took it that seriously. It's possible where it is taken more seriously, someone who ran in college, continues to run, watch times, etc. there are some things to be unwound. I think the "runner's high" is too simplistic, but more of a general immersion into a culture like that at a high level can distort one's worldview.

This is something I think BR should explore, since running seems rather central to his WW.

Buffer posted 9/26/2019 00:31 AM

Hi all
Lots of advice from knowledgeable people with a plethora of experience.
BR sorry about your situation you find yourself in re WW and her extra training activities, you have taken the infidelity bull by the horns.
Some well meaning posters seem to be getting a bit frustrated when you acknowledge but don’t act on their recommendations.
No one sided open marriage.
No false journals.
No burner phones.
I get it.
I can only suggest after your polygraph if it goes as you want is please look at a mutual IC/MC. No understand you are reluctant but if you get a good councillor it can only help.

Just my spin. She is selfish, saw her friend getting all of the attention and drinks. She was missing out and rather that keeping to the marriage boundaries. She actively sort out me, me, and me. A constant state of sexual arousal or a dump of dopamine is no excuse to lay with OM1 and OM2.

Also it does sound very manipulative having #1 watching #2 playing with their emotions etc whilst knowing her girlfriend is witnessing this. Can this be some sort of validation of acceptance for your WW and her GF? IE sexual domination of the available men at the after parties.

Good luck

[This message edited by Buffer at 12:36 AM, September 26th (Thursday)]

steadychevy posted 9/26/2019 08:12 AM

I don't know how the endorphin suggestion would hold up when planning a rendezvous when travelling for work.

I don't think it contributes to a why, either. I'm sure there are many, many runners who don't engage in "hooking up" after races. The "why" would be deeper. It's got to do with moral character and integrity, IMO. About doing the right thing even when no one is watching. Then there would be the question about why doesn't he/she have those characteristics.

I have difficulty with such things as mid life crisis, empty nest syndrome, successful at work, etc. That's surface and an easy out. It's much deeper. Why do others (most) who have those events in their life not cheat but the WS does?

[This message edited by steadychevy at 11:16 AM, September 26th (Thursday)]

MickeyBill2016 posted 9/26/2019 11:35 AM

Also it does sound very manipulative having #1 watching #2 playing with their emotions etc whilst knowing her girlfriend is witnessing this. Can this be some sort of validation of acceptance for your WW and her GF? IE sexual domination of the available men at the after parties.

It really sounds like high school all over again...It's gotta be a power trip to be in that position. "OMG Connie dumped Todd and is now banging Rod!"

Not much sympathy for the emotions of a couple horndogs trolling for some side action with married women. But that's just me. Most likely Mrs BR was not their first or last flings on the road.
Question is, was it her foray into sport fucking?

Butforthegrace posted 9/26/2019 13:56 PM

The way I see it a few times a month after the high of running her races she made very bad and selfish decisions. She found herself in a shitty immoral friend group surrounded by shitty immoral guys hitting on her and I assume telling her not to worry BR won't find out ... I can assume she was jealous of her friends freedom and with added alchohol and no fear of being caughtshe took the plunge.

Lots of people, myself included, have lives that involve travel with groups that contain shitty immoral people, partying, drinking, hotels, sense of freedom, etc., including during times when we may be less than fully satisfied at home. Yet we don't choose to cheat, despite many opportunities and temptations. It is a choice. At some point, the cheater decides: "I know I promised I would not do this, but I'm breaking my promise."

Utterly shitty and utterly selfish but in no way an indicator that she wants an open marriage, she just wanted occasional NSA fun as indicated by her reaction to number 1 shithead when he wanted more. At least that is how I have read the thread.

There is obviously a lot of baggage in this thread over the words "open marriage". So let's use the word "cheat again". How does a BS in this set of facts trust that she won't cheat again?

She now knows that there is no such thing as completely safe affair / cheating and it sounds like she is more than aware BR will for many years be keeping an eye out for even the tiniest red flags and he is not one for the pick me dance or forgiving again.

Seriously, you're proposing that the path to a fulfilling and satisfying R is to be a marriage cop to a dry drunk spouse white knuckling it when the opportunity and urge for some strange presents itself?

I agree that it's a lot of pressure on BR, very soon after DDay. I agree that the "degree" of her cheating is less awful than some we see. I agree that, by the coincidence that she is a habitual journaler, BR has a lot more information and insight than many BH's do at this stage.

Still, we haven't been told anything that indicates she is trying to figure out how to make herself into a safe spouse.

Striver posted 9/26/2019 18:22 PM

Part of the task of the WS, if they want to avoid relapse, is the opposite of a trigger for the BS. What are the pathways, the behaviors that make the WS feel good but lead to A?

On average, yes, it is easier for the second A to occur than the first. The WS knows the pathway to A now, though they may know the destruction it can cause, they also know all the good feelings the A can provide... also if the BS has been insufficient in communicating consequences, etc. the WS may be further emboldened.

My immediate concern for BR here is actually the running. I think his WW is going to want to do races again. Nothing wrong with running, but it is worrisome that the A happened in a running context, which is a longtime hobby for her. So the good feels from running and the good feels from A, those two streams are now mixed as it were.

Any mixed gender running group, that needs to go for good. Frankly, I would only allow solo training and any events would only be what BR can take her to and pick her up from. No socializing at events. If the APs continue on the running circuit, events are breaking of NC and they need to go as well.

I think these are important issues for BR given the importance of athletics in this family and relationship. The issue needs to hit home with his WW.

LemonCurd posted 9/26/2019 18:26 PM

Let me clear something up Grace I am not making excuses for BRs wife but I can follow BRs thinking very clearly. I think the exact same way and am myself dealing with a partner who did not conduct an affair but made some new garbage friends (all cheats) and she got drunk and cheated in a sleazy way much like BRs wife (no feelings involved).... I went volcanic on her and am tentatively trying to reconcile (6 months now) and watching her to see how she responds.

BR has clearly made the decision which alot of people in this thread seem to be losing their minds over, to believe his wife who he knows better than us that this was just a selfish decision fuelled in part by her high sex drive, inpart by the(former) new friend /party group and the belief she would never get caught.

What she did was outrageous and has caused a huge amount of pain, BR believes (tentatively) that she is genuineley remorseful and disgusted with herself (sounds like she fell at his mercy and broke down not in shame at being caught but shame of her actions) and due to the fact she didnt jump into bed with these asses at every chance or profess any kind of feelings at any point(I believe he said 7 times total over months)he thinks his wife was just selfishly using them for some fun on her terms when she felt like it. Big ego boost whatever.

Hell she even invited him to some of the races where they would have been, I believe from what I have read and I have read the entire thread that these guys were well aware of their place in the pecking order and when ahole 1 deviated he got dumped.

She made a disgusting choice to betray and BR seems happy (not with her choice to cheat) but happy to see if she will take measures to repair the damage she has inflicted. BR seems happy enough with her complete and total open book attitude, offering a poly, giving him all her secret emails which he would never have uncovered and her diary.

BR also seems happy that there have been serious consequences. She has lost her lifelong passion (her running), she lost friends, she appears to be heading towards changing her job and abandoning any thought of promotions, has offered polys and counselling and is reading all the books and I also get a sneaky feeling she is possibly on SI or TAM due to the steps she has taken. Also she has not complained once about any of the consequences which I find absolutely astonishing .... I do not detect an 'all about me' attitude from his wife

Seriously, you're proposing that the path to a fulfilling and satisfying R is to be a marriage cop

I said nothing of the sort. Merely the fact his wife now knows that any behaviour which does not lend itself to transparency or if she gets caught in a lie will almost certainly lead to a termination of the marriage. She wont risk it in my humble opinion because of her almost unique (on this forum) reaction to getting caught.

BR will naturally be a little more aware (now he is armed with all the things he has learnt) and blind trust is many years if ever from returning. That is not being a marriage cop that is not being a too trusting chump.

She thought she was too smart and now that illusion is shattered ... BR isn't the marriage cop she is. She is offering up her heart and soul and everything she has to reassure him and NC has not been broken.Most of the steps she has taken were her idea .... giving up the running, changing hotels, changing phones, giving BR access to her work systems (probably illegal) and offering extreme measures while out of town.

BR has stated several times about how few waywards have taken the lengths she has so quickly. He is absolutely correct.

If she cheats again then she can own it, BR knows what to do and she knows he will do it. BRace Ghost her ass

[This message edited by LemonCurd at 6:33 PM, September 26th (Thursday)]

BeyondRage posted 9/26/2019 22:09 PM

But For The Grace

So far in this thread, the only thing we've heard about this issue is her promise to you that she won't do it again,

Maybe YOU can tell me what she should be doing that she is not other than running to IC. So far she has
(1) not withheld any information. No TT uncovered so far
(2) turned over journal
(3) turned over without deletions e mails and phones. I even have her work phone passwords which may be a violation of her company policy
(4) cancelled all races
(5) turned down girls week end
(6) offered on her own to take polygraph.
And somehow you get she has done nothing out of that. ???????
You want to point me to a thread where in this same amount of time there is a role model. And please do not use Mrs. Walloped because until she found out her boyfriend was actually lying to her ass she was breaking NC immediately upon arriving to her sisters house or whichever relative it was.

This is the second time you have posted the same comment to me and i tried to respond to you above.
So I'll ask again what specifics are you suggesting other than running into an IC office.

I think our roles are getting a little mixed up here. I thought YOUR role is to offer suggestions on how to help or support. Seems like you have decided my job is to convince you of something.

A few comments back FAITHFULMAN offered an excellent suggestion on keeping her phone and just getting a new one that I had not thought of. That was helpful.

So I will state it once again. I believe, and what I believe what counts most, that my wife has taken more steps on her own than 99% of what I read here. And a lot of if I am right or wrong will be verified in the near future.

If you have any specific suggestions, Im all ears. But i have no intention of trying to "sell" you or need to "sell" you. Maybe I got the roles here mixed up.

BeyondRage posted 9/26/2019 22:16 PM

Question is, was it her foray into sport fucking?

Mickey,

That one will be answered for sure with her hooked up to a machine. It is a $64,000 question

Marz posted 9/26/2019 22:22 PM

So I will state it once again. I believe, and what I believe what counts most, that my wife has taken more steps on her own than 99% of what I read here. And a lot of if I am right or wrong will be verified in the near future.

From what I've seen you are correct. Most do not come close to this level upfront.

The bigger question for you is will this hold long term. Anyone can comply short term.

Only time will tell that.

Hope it works out for you.

BeyondRage posted 9/26/2019 22:40 PM

Marz

From what I've seen you are correct. Most do not come close to this level upfront.

The bigger question for you is will this hold long term. Anyone can comply short term.

Only time will tell that.

Hope it works out for you.

You are absolutely correct. Unfortunately, no one has been able to figure out how to insure that with certainty since Adam and Eve.

Look, we all are different. There are probably at least ten threads on here right now that I would immediately D on. Some D for just an EA. I get it.

I have read on here time after time that lying, TT, minimizing, etc sometimes are worse than the sex. I have gotten NONE of those things TO DATE>
notice to date is in capital letters.

I want to add one thing about the running. She is 48 years old and I have no intention of trying to forbid her from running a race for the rest of her life if she wants to. I do not believe had she not gotten involved with this crowd, which is all on her, that this would have occurred.

But right now is not the time for her to be concentrating on races and she knows that. There are other things we can do to stay fit, and she can run to her hearts content around our local high school track or our neighborhood.

When we get back from our trip this week end I am buying the new phone that was suggested. At this point i have to believe neither of these bozos will come sniffing but having her old phone will let me know for sure, although I believe she would tell me immediately anyway.

Marz posted 9/26/2019 23:05 PM

I want to add one thing about the running. She is 48 years old and I have no intention of trying to forbid her from running a race for the rest of her life if she wants to. I do not believe had she not gotten involved with this crowd, which is all on her, that this would have occurred.

You see this a lot. They become what they hang around with and a lot of it's work related.

The good thing for you is you caught her dead to rights. Many don't get that. She did the smart thing upfront and hid nothing.

Who knows if you just had a feeling and asked. Most never get the truth without proof. So in your situation you were spared that.

I would not live the life of a marriage warden either. It's not worth it.

Some will never do this again but the problem is there are no guarantees. That's the bigger problem

Striver posted 9/27/2019 01:47 AM

I want to add one thing about the running. She is 48 years old and I have no intention of trying to forbid her from running a race for the rest of her life if she wants to. I do not believe had she not gotten involved with this crowd, which is all on her, that this would have occurred.

There are probably guys who would do that, are looking to do that, in half the run clubs, cycling clubs, gyms in the country.

In my single days I did some week long bicycle trips. There was a group of us for a while, mixed genders. One of them might have been interested in me. Not enough on my end I guess, she dated another guy in the group. Another one of the women I started flirting with. She had a boyfriend who wasn't on the trips. She was attracted to me. Her and her friends didn't invite me along on more trips. Because she knew what it could and would lead to, and wanted to keep things right with her boyfriend.

What your WW ran into is all over.

Butforthegrace posted 9/27/2019 08:06 AM

BR, I was responding to Lemon Curd, who indicates that his situation is like yours, but who does not have a thread of his own.

Like you, I've read a lot of threads here. Although my betrayal was long ago, I've carried pain and insecurity from it and reading here has helped me.

Like you, I've been dumbfounded at times by the decision of some BH's to soldier on, pushing that rock up that hill, trying to force R with a recalcitrant WW despite giant levels of sexual humiliation by the acts of the WW, despite years of DARVO and TT and contempt. I agree that your thread contains none of that, which makes your thread somewhat of a koan. Some threads present Gordian knots of tangled wreckage, almost impossible to sort out. FOO issues. Substance abuse. There are threads where the couple were "first and onlies", and now, after infidelity, the WW has experienced the numinent thrill of NSA sex, where the BH has not. Stds. Pregnancies. Etc.

I'm also mindful that there is zero sexual humiliation in your case. I think you said you were a college varsity football player. I reckon you saw as much action as you wanted to see in those days, and your WW's extracurricular sex was pretty plain vanilla. There isn't a sense that she gave another man something you've wanted but never had the opportunity to taste.

Yours is like a carbon fiber hunting arrow of infidelity, light and clean and efficient and sleek, expertly shot directly into the bull's eye: what is the response to a spouse who clinically decides to cheat for no reason other than she wants to cheat? No baggage, no wreckage, just the core question: either you honor your marital vow of fidelity, or you don't. There's no going back. Once the promise is broken, it is broken. That will be true. Forever. And the promise breaker proves by her actions that she is the kind of person who will break a promise. Would you trust such a person a second time? Would you risk a future like Charlie Brown and Lucy with the football?

I don't pretend to have an answer. I try to put myself into the shoes of posters, to imagine what I would do, but of course that's impossible at some level because I'm not in your shoes, nor those of Lemon Curd. Further, we only know here what you post. We don't know the flesh-and-blood people involved and cannot read the unspoken nonverbal communication. For example, in your case, maybe it wasn't really just a clinical decision. Maybe she was having a mini mid-life crisis, that moment when a person looks in the mirror and sees a stranger in the wrinkled face looking back, maybe she was terrified of losing her youth and responding to something that made her feel young again. They say, "Inside every old person is a young person wondering what the heck happened." To me that would be easier to understand, and to feel safe from, because she could recognize that pattern in herself, understand how it led to her decisions, and break that chain of thought on a going-forward basis.

What I'm suggesting -- and I am truly not challenging you nor bickering, I'm actually trying to be helpful -- is that perhaps one step is to have her do some work to figure out what is wrong with her moral compass that would enable her to make this decision. It really is a binary issue. Either you choose to cheat, or you choose not to cheat. I've been married to my current wife many years. My work involves travel to trade shows and such, hotbeds of infidelity. I have a child who played teenage sports at a high level, involving many trips to distant places for 4-day weekends at college showcase events and such. Parents in those circles become clubby. They sit around the hotels at night drinking and flirting. Also hotbeds of infidelity. I've seen it happen again and again. I personally have had multiple opportunities. I always chose "no". Promise keeper.

It is possible via lifestyle changes to erect prophylactic barriers that prevent her from being in situations where she could be tempted to make this choice again. However, as I and other posters have pointed out, a lot of married people find ourselves in circumstances where extracurricular sex is easily available and highly attractive yet we choose not to engage, because we promised our spouse, in our wedding vows, that we would not. Promise keepers versus promise breakers.

In my effort to imagine myself in your place, I'd rather be a husband who believes he can trust his wife, no matter how much temptation is around her, as opposed to a husband who has to remind her that there are boundaries to what she can do because some activities are likely to get her in the presence of toxic people, drinking, partying, hotels, and offers of sex. I'd rather not live with gnawing doubt every time she is on the road without me. To return to the alcoholic metaphor, I'd rather live with a spouse who is in active recovery, as opposed to a dry drunk.

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 12:34 PM, September 27th (Friday)]

Meers posted 9/27/2019 11:31 AM

I have just noticed your thread and completed a reading of it. I’m sorry that you have this situation to deal with.

Since you seem to be planning to have your wife polygraphed I’d like to offer my comments.

I have been polygraphed more times than I can count…well over 150 times. Each year I took one or two pairs of exams. One addressed what was called “lifestyle,” activities that could make me vulnerable to coercion. The other of the pair was done a few days earlier of later and addressed other topics.

I have never been dishonest in any response that I made but there were times when I was deemed to be “uncooperative.” Every time these events occurred the polygrapher was inexperienced or I had significant personal family (children) issues on my mind. Once an experienced polygrapher repeated the exam days later there was no issue.

My point here is to emphasize that although I strongly believe in polygraphy, I only do so when the examiner is very well qualified and experienced.

Finding such an examiner can be a challenge. My preference would be a full-time examiner who retired from a successful career as an examiner with an organization that relies on polygraph results, and is now practicing privately.

I have a few comments about the form of the questions you plan to have asked. If interested I’ll try to find the page where they are and make comments.

Anecdotally, one of the most experienced polygraphers that I had told me I had sleep apnea long before my physician diagnosed me.

The experience level of the examiner is important.
Since neither of us can send private communications I am reluctant to offer names or groups that may exist.

LemonCurd posted 9/27/2019 12:26 PM

BR, I was responding to Lemon Curd, who indicates that his situation is like yours, but who does not have a thread of his own.

I posted on reddit relationships 6 months ago, big mistake I don't think anyone replied who had ever been in a real relationship

Eventually i started lurking on SI and have absorbed and implemented much of what people have shared including yourself. The advice people give here has been invaluable. Thank you everyone who shared.

My point here is to emphasize that although I strongly believe in polygraphy, I only do so when the examiner is very well qualified and experienced.

Amen. The difference between an artisan baker and someone who bakes bricks masquerading as loaves.

A bad poly like a bad therapist or bad friends can wreak devastation. Always worth checking very carefully just who you are entrusting with helping you make such big momentous decisions

Look, we all are different. There are probably at least ten threads on here right now that I would immediately D on. Some D for just an EA. I get it.

100% agree on this different people have different tolerances. Some of the threads on SI have made me profoundly sad for the betrayed and even occasionally for the betrayer.

If you can sleep soundly at night and not suffer crippling anxiety you are doing better than most .....


HouseOfPlane posted 9/28/2019 17:54 PM

BR, I am late to the party, and even better yet haven’t read every post by every person, but that’s not stopped me from offering opinions before.

BFTG wrote above

What I'm suggesting -- and I am truly not challenging you nor bickering, I'm actually trying to be helpful -- is that perhaps one step is to have her do some work to figure out what is wrong with her moral compass that would enable her to make this decision.
If she doesn’t use this as an opportunity to figure out Who She Is As A Human Being, she will have missed a golden chance to become a truly grounded and truthful person, and you will have missed the chance to have that for a wife. What happened is many things, including being a gift. Don’t let her just cram the genie back in the bottle.

“Someone I loved once gave me a box full of darkness. It took me years to understand that this too, was a gift.”


― Mary Oliver

Pages: 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · 5 · 6 · 7 · 8 · 9 · 10 · 11 · 12 · 13 · 14 · 15 · 16 · 17 · 18 · 19 · 20 · 21 · 22 · 23 · 24 · 25 · 26 · 27 · 28 · 29 · 30 · 31 · 32 · 33 · 34 · 35

Return to Forum List

Return to Just Found Out

© 2002-2020 SurvivingInfidelity.com ®. All Rights Reserved.     Privacy Policy