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Reimbursing for monies spent on the affair

Louisianalisa posted 5/6/2020 21:04 PM

I have been hanging out more and more in this divorce/separation section, as my divorce is coming up soon, sometime this month. Being here helps me come to terms with the word divorce and how it is being associated with me now.

15 years ago today he proposed to me. It was a gorgeous spring day. He got down on the knee, gave me the beautiful ring. I was the happiest girl in the world. Little did I know he was just a narc locking down some long term supply.

I cried on and off today at the fact that if anyone had told me 15 years ago that this is where I'd be today, I would never never never have believed it. I cried because of how we devolved as a couple. So much hope and so many future dreams wasted. I am coming to realize now that a marriage with a narcissist will always fail, or at least never be happy. If it hadn't been this OW, this time in our marriage, it would have been some other OW, some other time. It was only a matter of time.

We email-argued today because I am demanding that he pay back the money he spent on his A and his AP. I want that money back in our household account. I gave him an itimized list and a conservative estimate. He refuses. He minimized his A and told me how off I am from reality. I pushed back with facts and evidence. He went silent for the rest of the day. Who knows what I will wake up to tomorrow in my email inbox.

I don't know why I'm writing this, I think I'm just so sad. Here I am arguing with this man about his affair 15 years to the day after he himself proposed marriage to me. I was so happy that day. I thought all of my dreams had finally come true. Today I am going to bed alone with his arrogant and entitled words swirling around in my head.

These people make the rules, break the rules, lie about the rules, change the rules, deny the rules, ignore the rules and then make up new rules. Repeat until the end of time. Has anyone here demanded retribution for monies WSs spent on their A and APs?

Thanks for listening everyone. I'm in a funk today, and am so glad this is a safe place to be.
LL xo

[This message edited by Louisianalisa at 9:07 PM, May 6th (Wednesday)]

Catwoman posted 5/6/2020 21:27 PM

I would take yourself out of the argument and have your attorney petition for this. It is, in most states, "dissipation of marital assets" and you may be eligible for 50% of what he spent on the affair.

But YOU trying to negotiate this is a dead end. It is a much better strategy to have your attorney either petition for this (depending on the sum involved) or use it as leverage to get something you really want in exchange.

If he is truly a narcissist, you can't negotiate with them. Just turn it over to the attorney. Trust me--it is sufficiently less wear and tear.

Cat

Phoenix1 posted 5/6/2020 22:47 PM

I'll ditto what Cat said.

We have "dissipation of assets" in my state. Xhole spent tens of thousands, and I had proof. However, trying to actually get my half returned would have required a contested D (legal $) and probably years of trying to legally get blood from a turnip. So I decided to go the leverage route and told him if he made our uncontested dissolution problematic I would go for every penny, subpoena his OW, and air his dirty laundry in court (he's all about image so that was a big one). It worked, and I got what I wanted with the speed and ease of a dissolution.

Think strategically and pick your battles realistically.

Buffer posted 5/6/2020 23:12 PM

I see nothing wrong with your request. Why should you or the family fund his A?
One day at a time
Buffer

ChoosingHope posted 5/11/2020 23:56 PM

I understand your sadness. But fighting over something like this with a narcissist will likely cost you a lot in attorney fees - and in time and anguish.

If your attorney thinks it's worth it, and that the fight is a worthwhile one, I hope you can work on trying to frame it in your head as a business decision - not an emotional one.

Please talk to your attorney and let them handle it for you. You can work on continuing to take care of yourself, detach, and get ready for the fight - and divorce IS a fight.

Take good care.

LadyG posted 5/12/2020 00:15 AM

Good luck.

My STBX Narc WH only today triggered my PTSD and PISD about the money I was imagining that he was spending...

“I will pay it back... during the last A, it was more like, ‘it’s my money, I make money and I will spend it “

Damn the entire time during the A, I was in denial, ‘how much can 1 man eat in a day, breakfast, lunch and dinner’ eating for 2 on a daily basis...

Even looking at the credit card statements, he denied everything....

So today, a former regular breakfast, lunch and dinner date calls... gee, I am loving the social distancing aspect of this....

Muggle posted 5/12/2020 13:59 PM

Louisianalisa The first thing I want to say is that I understand your pain. I've felt it first hand, and there's nothing that will soothe it until you've had time to heal.

I wasn't married for 23 years, but we had a committed intimate relationship, 3 kids, house, business. He married her knowing her 14 days, and I found out because someone called me from Vegas randomly.

We had a bitter, contentious "divorce", as I finally stood up to him and retained an attorney. He's a narcissist and I knew I didn't have the fortitude to deal with him. I was beyond devastated.

I made meticulous lists of funds he used on her from our business. I had evidence, bank statements and he admitted to 75% of it. This process took almost 1.5 years. In the end if he balks you will be forced into a decision. Mediation or Trial. It's really that simple.

When it came to crunch time, he refused to pay any of it. He would force me to go to trial. I had to pay my own attorney as we weren't married. Trial will cost at least $35,000-$100,000 in attorney fees, and bs.

YOU have a unique opportunity to negotiate. You were married. Worst case scenario you are entitled to the 50% he spent that's considered your marital asset.

My BEST advise is to get mediation scheduled. Make sure you schedule it far enough in advance that if the initial session fails you have time for at least one more mediation LONG before any trial date. You want to avoid trial prep.

My mediation was for 8 hours, cost me $1250, same for him. We didn't have time left to quibble and it was in the last 45 minutes that we came to somewhat of an agreement. I feel it cost me at least $75,000-$150,000 not having an opportunity to get a second date to hammer out more details.

I did not get any of the funds he squandered on her. I missed important details that needed to be included. My amazing attorney also missed a few things. We were systematically in a frenzy to get the main things agreed, and some small things were missed. Details are EVERYTHING.

I can tell you that I thought I was prepared when I went to mediation. I was confident, held my head up, and smiled. He was a mess. We had to have separate rooms. The retired judge stayed with me and my attorney as it was volatile chaos in his room.

If you need it I can tell you what I missed and what to expect. I can tell you where I triumphed and where I failed in preparation. I can make suggestions on making sure the wording protects you in places I didn't anticipate it would bite me in the butt and then did. Attorneys are just people. In the end they can miss things, even if extremely good at their job.

If I had known more I'd have shown up with more than a smile. I'd have done things differently. I'd have been Plan B for my attorney, with a list of things to double check were in writing, in detail. One single miss step and it will cost you later either financially or in enforcing the agreement.

Just remember to take care of yourself right now. We forget to do so at times. None of this is easy, it will be a journey.

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