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Heís been sleeping with his work colleague

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Grundy456 posted 5/16/2020 16:51 PM

Weíve been together 17 years, 3 children- 10-13. Last summer I grew suspicious of him and a female work colleague. He talked about her a lot. I found messages, nothing hugely incriminating- miss you, miss you more and cute animals. He swore there was nothing going on, just work colleagues, heíd been helping her through a tough time. Others in the office helping her too. Sheís not got friends etc.
Fast forward to March. He was away visiting family. Sent me a message. Sent another and deleted it. I asked why and he said it didnít make sense. It did, it just obviously wasnít for me. I tracked his phone, he wasnít where he said he was.
Then lockdown.
To begin with it was fine. We got on better than we have for ages. I could see she was messaging him all the time. Eventually I cracked the pass for his phone - messages deleted, just one from her saying I love you too. But there were calls and hidden photos.
I confronted him. Not with evidence- he doesnít know Iíve seen his phone. He admitted it. Wants us to try again. Stopped all contact with her. Says heíll do anything, however long it takes. Iíve realised he was away for the weekend with her. He hasnt admitted it but Iíve not asked.
Iíve told him heíll have to tell all so we can see where we went wrong. I donít know if I can or even want to get over this.
Any help or wise words much appreciated. It was 3 weeks ago that I confronted him.

LizM posted 5/16/2020 18:51 PM

Sorry this has happened to you Grundy.

Smart move not telling him you can get into his phone. You played that well. Now you can use that to make sure he stays no contact with her.

How hard would it be for him to find a new job? Thatís the next step. And insist he does individual counseling so that he can work on himself to not cheat in again in the future...heís gotta learn how to be a safe partner.

Read in the Healing Library for tips.

[This message edited by LizM at 6:51 PM, May 16th (Saturday)]

Okokok posted 5/16/2020 20:10 PM

Hi, sorry you're finding yourself here. Under the circumstances, though, it's a pretty good place to be. You can get a lot of help here from people who have gone through just what you're going through now.

Be sure to check out the Healing Library, especially the articles and the BS FAQ. It's important that you read a lot there.

Last summer I grew suspicious of him and a female work colleague.

What can you tell us about this colleague, his AP (affair partner)? Is she married? Is he her boss? Give a few details if you can--it will help us give you better advice.


I tracked his phone, he wasnít where he said he was.

Does he know that you were able to see his location? And are you still able to do this? Where was he that day?

He admitted it.

What exactly did he say?

Wants us to try again. Stopped all contact with her. Says heíll do anything, however long it takes. Iíve realised he was away for the weekend with her. He hasnt admitted it but Iíve not asked.

Well, he's sure not acting like he wants to "try again," is he?

How did you figure out he was away with her? When was this? Last weekend?

I hope you know: being away for the weekend means they were having sex. If you've since had sex with him, you need to talk to your doctor and get an std test.

I donít know if I can or even want to get over this.

That's of course the bajillion dollar question. You don't have to know just yet. It's ok.

What can you tell us about what's happening in your household these days? Are you and your WH (wayward husband) talking a lot about this, or just avoiding? Are you talking about your relationship? What types of things are you saying to him? And what is he saying to you?

Back to your bajillion dollar question: while you don't have to know today whether you want to D (divorce) him, or R (reconcile) with him, I hope you know that you *absolutely* need to get out of this infidelity situation. It is not OK for you to have to continue to exist in a situation where your husband is actively sleeping with another woman. I repeat: you do NOT have to accept this, EVEN IF in your heart of hearts you want to save your marriage.

There are things you can begin doing today that can help things begin to go better no matter the outcome with WH (wayward husband). Honestly we can basically give you step-by-step instructions to help turn things around. A lot of what you need to do isn't very intuitive to a new BS (betrayed spouse).

Please answer the questions I've posed here, and keep posting as much as you can. We really are here to help you. The advice here is really, really good :)

Grundy456 posted 5/16/2020 21:14 PM

Thank you for listening. I have no one to talk to in the real world so this just eats away at me.

Let me answer your questions and give you some more information.

She is a colleague of his. The work in the same small office. They do the same job, same grade but they work on different teams. They work for different clients. They have different shift patterns to each other so overlap sometimes.
She is late 30s I think. Polish (we are in uk). Not married, no kids. She lives in a shared house with 3 or 4 others.

She did buy a house, maybe a rent to buy scheme, with a girl friend last year. But her friendís boyfriend moved in and they fell out. The AP moved out without discussion and took all the furniture. The friend was taking her to court.
This is the time they grew close I think. Probably between March - June last year.
He actually helped arranged for her to stay with his sister and family for a few days/ week or two while she found a room to rent. This is when he would talk about her all the time.

He doesnít know I can track his phone. I can see his location through our eldest childís phone. So only when the child is home too.

He hasnít seen her since I told him I know. I meant Iíve since realised they were away together in March.

We are locked down. Iím working from home since mid March. He has been furloughed so no work until July probably. (We think itís likely about half of their small team will be made redundant).

It hey have been sending messages through an app. Made calls that way too. But WS deletes as soon as sent/ read. I saw one after he got back from being away- something like - Ďísee you panicking for nothing- I love youĒ. He is from overseas and went home on family business. But Iím sure they travelled out separately and spent the weekend together. He then went on to family, she stayed a couple more days and flew home.

I found hidden photos on his phone. From her house warming party, feb 19 and then from work nights out - always others in the pictures too.

When I confronted him, I just said - I know. He played dumb. I said I donít know who, but I know.
He said yes. Been an idiot. Didnít know why.
Told him heíd have to leave (not possible right now as locked down). Or maybe he was planning to move ow in and play happy familyís with the kids. And Iíd move out. (I wouldnít ever leave my kids but your mind plays out so much you go crazy. Plus I bet sheíd soon be off with 3 preteens to look after having wronged me!)

He cried. I was mad.

Why I confronted him then?
When we locked down, I was suspicious. Wanted evidence though as didnít want for him to excuse it and make me think I was mad.
We actually got on better than we had for ages. No work stresses. Pulling together in difficult times. He had a flip cover on his phone but I could see home screen. Sometimes AP would message and he wouldnít see this for hours.
We sat together in the evenings. Even went up to bed together for the first time in a long time. We had sex, several times (I know I need to get myself checked). Our relationship was better than itís been for ages.
I donít think he was giving her too much thought or attention. He was texting late at night but no calls (heís more of a texter). Then something changed. He started staying up much later. Spending a couple of hours messaging her before coming to bed. I said it was this change which had given it away (Iíd also accessed his phone).
I told him she had pushed him so heíd get caught. So they could be together.

He doesnít want to be with her. Wants his family. I donít know if that really means me. Or just the children. He says itís me too.

We have a lot to fix.

I need to fix me first. I have suffered a lot over the years and I know that I need fixing.

Iím not excusing him. But he warned me he needed more. Probably when this AP first came on the scene.

At the moment, we are carrying on as usual. We have talked a bit. Iíve told him Iíll need the truth from him. Heís said to let him know when Iím ready. Neither of us have spoken AP name. He must know I know who it is.
He is sleeping in with the children. Neither of us are great at talking and the children are around all day so timing is hard.

Thanks for listening. Another sleepless night....

ChamomileTea posted 5/16/2020 22:40 PM

I need to fix me first. I have suffered a lot over the years and I know that I need fixing.

Iím not excusing him. But he warned me he needed more. Probably when this AP first came on the scene.

We ALL have stuff to fix. Who doesn't look at themselves in the mirror and wish they were more 'this' or less 'that'. None of us are perfect. But NOTHING you did (or didn't do) caused your WH to cheat. It's impossible.

Cheating is a character problem. We've lived for decades under the shadow of a worthless pop-psy model which claims that people cheat when their needs are unmet. But let me tell you, in 35 year of marriage when MY needs went unmet consistently, I did not cheat. In your 17 years of living with an imperfect partner, your needs weren't always met either, and you didn't cheat. And why is that??? It's because we BELIEVE that cheating is wrong. We believe in the vows we made. We believe in faithfulness. And THAT is the gap in character which allows the cheater to cheat. Their core values aren't firm. They have a "but" in their belief system, an out. You didn't cause that, and you can't change it. It was there when you met him.

So, this time is for YOU. If you have things you want to change, you change them for YOU. Spend some time thinking about what you want from YOUR future. You don't necessarily have to take your WS back. It quite frankly doesn't matter what he wants. He already had his choices, and no cheater is owed a second chance, no matter what they want or whether they're actually sorry. You've known something was off since last summer? Well, summer is coming on again. That's almost a year that you know of. No telling what you don't. A year of your WH looking into your face every day, telling his lies, and sneaking around your back like a skulking, hormonal teenager.

Believe me, we've all been there. And most of us can identify with the kneejerk reaction to return the status quo. Just make sure it's what YOU want. Take your time. Think about your boundaries and what changes you would need from HIM in order to allow him to stay. Don't be afraid to have deal-breakers. And DO see an attorney, even if you haven't made a decision. Having a solid plan either way and knowing what the financial outlook will be can clarify your thoughts.

You said that there's probably going to be some downsizing at your WH's employment. He should be looking for work. There's no way you should tolerate him going back to the office with the OW if R is on the table, so one of them needs to find another job. Sometimes it's beneficial to expose the affair to the employer, but in your case, it might be better to wait and see who gets caught in the downsize. If you opt for D, all you care is that he's earning a paycheck large enough to make his child/spousal support. So, it might be wise to keep your powder dry for now and tell him to start looking.

Your WH still hasn't come completely clean with you and it's been 3 weeks. That's not acceptable. He can hardly expect your forgiveness when you don't know everything he's done. Further, one of your chief boundaries should be that you will no longer accept ANY dishonesty from him. He needs to answer any question you pose with complete candor. And if he's not willing to do that, he's not a candidate for R. All his communications and tech should be open to you for your perusal, and the OW should be sent a NO CONTACT letter which YOU have approved. He needs to change/block any method of communication and toss out any mementos. And... he needs a therapy plan to repair his broken character. His bullshit "been an idiot/needed more" excuse is shallow and blame-shifting. If he had REAL integrity, you couldn't put him off his own stated values without a gun to his head. His core values aren't there like they ought to be, and until they are... he does not share your value system. (read not good enough for you).

We all understand what you're going through. We've all been there and we KNOW the pain and confusion. But you're going to be okay. Might not seem like it today, but someday you will.

((hugs))

Grundy456 posted 5/17/2020 04:05 AM

Thank you for your wise words.

Itís likely WS would keep his job but not sure about the AP. I think she has driven back to Poland and so Iím hoping she decides to stay there. She was probably hanging around here in lockdown hoping for him to pop by and he didnít. She was pushing for it, from one of the messages I saw.

He has had missed calls from a polish mobile - 3. He did call back but cancelled. The latest he didnít call back. That was a week ago. And 3 unread messages on the app they used to text through. I canít see any contact at all but I know they share a group work chat although I donít think he actively contributes.

He swears no one knows which I think is highly unlikely. I canít imagine theyíve managed to keep it quiet at work and so I hope one of them loses their job.

We havenít talked because I donít feel ready. We have talked a bit. I guess I need to get my head around the worst of it and so Iím prepared. If he tells me about their weekend away then Iíll fee I can trust any other answers a bit more. If he doesnít, Iíll know heís telling me what he thinks I want to hear.

He told me he was spending the first night with family. They live over an hour away from where he was. He had been with them earlier in the day, then left and headed for hotel in his favourite part of the city. The next night he said he stayed with a friend in a different area. And the late night he said he was going to get a cheap hotel near the airport ready for his early internal flight. All 3 nights at the same, nice hotel which he would not usually choose. Plus I can see his google history through the iPad as itís linked to his phone. Heíd looked up currency converter from polish to local.

Another things is time. The children are old enough to pick up on whatís going on. Weíve shielded them from it as much as possible. Time to talk is difficult to find. By the time Iíve finished work, kids in bed, Iím tired. I know itíll mean a sleepless emotional night and Iíll still have to work the next day.

Plus I want a plan. I want to know what he needs to do. What I have to ask of him. I know I donít need to have made a decision but I want to know how to answer what he tells me.

Heís said heíll do whatever it takes, however long it takes. I think heíll agree to therapy. He says heíll still do whatever needs to be done around the house as he wants the children to have a nice place to live. Heíll support me whatever I decide.

GTeamReboot posted 5/17/2020 06:39 AM

Hey there!!! So so sorry you had to find us. But you have already got some useful info and made some good choices. Reading your story, hereís my quick initial advice...
- If you havenít already, get some screenshots of the most clear evidence and email it to yourself or otherwise back it up. (Even if you have to do that on your childís phone then delete from their phone, then delete from recently deleted folder!)
- Write out your version of what you know for sure or suspect strongly, dates and communication between them.
- Tell him that that in order to even consider reconciling you need to know what you are facing and for him to prepare a written timeline of everything... who, when, how, where... EVERYTHING. (dealing with the Why can wait)
- Find a time for him to go over the timeline with you. Set aside time and prepare for a hard talk.
- If he leaves out anything big just give him one warning... ďI know thereís more to the story and Iím going to need you to tell me everything... I canít heal from what I donít know... the secrets donít protect me, they hurt me.Ē (itís common for them to think, perhaps even genuinely, that the details are too painful and they donít want to hurt you further... lots of evidence thatís wrong).
- If he is still in touch with her at all there needs to be a final notice of no further contact which you get to see or hear as you wish.
- If he expresses a desire to do the work. there are resources for him (but donít point him to here directly, let it be your space). Cross that bridge if you get there.

If he tells me about their weekend away then Iíll fee I can trust any other answers a bit more. If he doesnít, Iíll know heís telling me what he thinks I want to hear.
THIS!! Spot on. All cheaters will lie at first and/or tell just enough to get by. Even the ones who are truly remorseful will start here even if it doesnít last long. Self-preservation perhaps mixed with the wrong sense that telling you more will hurt you more. In my case I found out about one AP (a ONS with my BFF) but that person told me there was another person I needed to ask him about. When confronted with irrefutable evidence of the ONS he didnít deny. When asked about the other one he did deny. That lasted one day. The next day I poked around for more evidence (actually didnít find any, other than more details from my exBFF who was aware of it, details of timing which made sense with my traveling). When he came home I simply said ďyou better start talking.Ē I didnít let on what I knew and what I didnít know. In that moment he was being tested. I told him later that what would have gotten him kicked out for sure was lying. He is lucky he came clean that it was true and told me the basics. Said he would give me the details but not that very night (we were both drained). The next day he wrote out a timeline and told me everything, what I knew and the details I didnít know. (He wrote the timeline so it would be complete but then read it to me). He cried hard. He begged for another chance. Nothing more has come to light despite all my digging. That transparency is the only reason we went straight into R.

Keep taking care of yourself. Keep posting here for advice and reading a lot. Can you take a day off work or plan for a really thorough discussion on a weekend? So that you have time to recover from a late and emotional night. I know it sucks to ďplan onĒ what may be the worst day of your life, but the alternative is living in rug-sweeping limbo and you donít want that.

Okokok posted 5/17/2020 07:48 AM

Not married, no kids. She lives in a shared house with 3 or 4 other

OK, so if killing the A is a goal of yours, this does make it a little trickier, as there is no OBS (other betrayed spouse) to disclose this to.

There is still the workplace. Please know that affairs thrive in secrecy. There are two major ways to kill an affair quickly: one is to disclose to OBS (not an option for you), and one is to expose to the workplace if it's an affair between coworkers.

Workplace exposure comes with its own issues that you should really think through (and ideally process here), but it's generally a solid bet that doing so will stop the affair dead in its tracks if done correctly. So it's a tool you have in your back pocket for now. Something to think hard about.

Please also know this: there can never be a true reconciliation as long as he continues to see this woman at work. There can be a "marriage," but you will never feel safe, happy, or even ok as long as that contact continues. No contact will be an *essential* part of your reconciliation process if that becomes the path that you and your husband take (and you don't have to take it).

He doesnít know I can track his phone.

Good. This is very good for you. Keep it this way for now. Don't let on at all that you can track him.

I meant Iíve since realised they were away together in March.

Got it. Thanks for clarifying.


But WS deletes as soon as sent/ read.

The only reason a person does this is because they are continuing an affair and don't want their spouse to know. I'm sorry. Of course, you know this in your gut. Just avoid any temptation to explain this away. It is exactly what it looks like.

He doesnít want to be with her. Wants his family. I donít know if that really means me. Or just the children. He says itís me too.

So I get that he's saying all this. Do you also get the sense that he's still texting with AP, though? As long as that's happening, DDay #2 is right around the corner, I'm sorry to say.

Iím not excusing him. But he warned me he needed more. Probably when this AP first came on the scene.

ChamomileTea gave you a solid answer to this. Adult relationships come with adult problems. There are grown-up ways to handle those problems. Having an affair is not one of them.

timing is hard.

Could not possibly be worse. Sorry for that.

Iíve told him Iíll need the truth from him. Heís said to let him know when Iím ready.

I agree that this is a need. I also know from experience (my own and a million others on this site) that you are unlikely to get it. If he's still actively chatting with AP and isn't expressing remorse or that he's willing to do whatever it is to save the marriage and help you heal, I can 100% guarantee that he will still lie through his "truth-telling" moment.

Doesn't mean you shouldn't talk and see what he says. But you should go in with your eyes open, expecting that he'll lie. I do think at this point you should keep what you know to yourself, no matter how much you want to throw it in his face. Listen to what he says, watch what he does. Your responses to any lies can be simple: "Ok, thanks for sharing." Then, later, come back here and process it all. Give him nothing at this point in regard to what you know and don't know.

~

I'm sorry. It's a supremely shitty place to be. Let us know how the day goes and what you're thinking (and what he's thinking and doing).

Grundy456 posted 5/17/2020 08:29 AM

Thanks all. This is a great help.

I canít find any evidence that theyíve been in contact since I confronted him. She has messaged him but they remain unread.

No calls. No messages.

Iíve also checked his phones usage history and I do t think heís been in touch.

Work wise I think theyíll know more at the end of the month.

Iím not planning to let him know anymore than I have to. I know heíll hide anything more if I do. Everything Iíve seen pretty much is screenshot and stored.

Okokok posted 5/17/2020 09:57 AM

Iím not planning to let him know anymore than I have to. I know heíll hide anything more if I do. Everything Iíve seen pretty much is screenshot and stored.

You're way ahead of the curve here. It's honestly very impressive. Stay the course and keep us updated, both with what's going on and what your ongoing thoughts/needs are.

ibonnie posted 5/17/2020 10:46 AM

Another things is time. The children are old enough to pick up on whatís going on. Weíve shielded them from it as much as possible. Time to talk is difficult to find. By the time Iíve finished work, kids in bed, Iím tired. I know itíll mean a sleepless emotional night and Iíll still have to work the next day.

Talk to your children. Assuming that you're all quarantined together 24/7, and given their ages, they're probably picking up on more than you know and already have their own theories about what's going on.

DO NOT GASLIGHT THEM.

You don't have to go into details, but you can all sit down together, WH (wayward husband) included, and can say something along the lines of, "We've noticed that you've picked up on some tension between Mom and Dad. Dad broke a very serious promise that he made to Mom, and has broken her trust. Mom is very sad about this. We don't want you to worry though. If you need to know anything more, we'll tell you kids."

totallydumb posted 5/17/2020 11:30 AM

Tell him that that in order to even consider reconciling you need to know what you are facing and for him to prepare a written timeline of everything... who, when, how, where... EVERYTHING.

Cannot stress the above enough. When your WH has to really think about his actions and behaviors and write it down, it sinks in how much of a crappy partner he is. He will actually have to face some of the guilt and shame.

I would just add that after he has given you the timeline and had a chance to "upgrade it" for honesty, that you then inform him that he will be having a polygraph based on the timeline that he wrote. Tell him he has lied so much, that you have to back it up with the polygraph.

The timeline also gives you a indication of how big of a screw up you have to accept in order to reconcile.

You probably need to talk to a therapist who has experience with infidelity trauma to help you digest this infidelity.

Marriage counselling is pointless until WH can be honest with you.

Stinger posted 5/17/2020 12:19 PM

Definitely get STD tested.

Grundy456 posted 5/17/2020 14:49 PM

Yes getting him to write it down is a great idea. He gets himself all tangled up when he talks at the best of times (English not his first language) so writing it down will avoid that. And of course, heíll have it to look at. And really have to think about it.

I need to understand why he done it. And what they were hoping for I guess. Where was it going?

Obviously when I confronted him I had no idea whether heíd just pack up and leave and be relieved or what he wanted.

How on earth do you ever get over seeing them together though? This is what worries me.

Iím glad you all think Iím doing ok so far. I guess I need a handhold, someone to vent to. To mull things over with. So far my instinct hasnít been wrong at all.

GTeamReboot posted 5/17/2020 23:31 PM

I canít find any evidence that theyíve been in contact since I confronted him. She has messaged him but they remain unread.
I would say this is technically ďstill in touch.Ē She has ways to reach him easily. He could choose to open those messages as soon as he gets curious enough. I realize he doesnít know you can see this (or maybe he does?). If he doesnít know you can see the messages that are unread, it is a good sign that he has left them. If he has given you access then of course he wonít touch them. Once you really get the details from him and are ready to move forward with everything on the table, there needs to be a brief and direct NC communication to her so she knows to stop (but may or may not stop). Then block her on all known avenues.
I need to understand why he done it. And what they were hoping for I guess. Where was it going?
The person who needs to understand that even more than you is him. This is what IC is for. He can make some attempt now to understand and ďexplainĒ but if he canít itís because heís got unresolved issues. That would be typical. Thatís why I say it can wait. It probably has to come later in the process to be meaningful. Thereís a lot of ďI donít know...Ē at this point.

Grundy456 posted 5/18/2020 02:16 AM

Thanks for your reply.

No he doesnít know t can access his phone. So he wonít know that I have seen these messages as unread. I can only read the most recent which was sent 1 may. I confronted him 29 April. She sent one that night saying sheíd been up all night worrying - presumably as heíd not contacted her.

Iím not sure what IC is but I think I get what youíre saying.

Buffer posted 5/18/2020 02:36 AM

So sorry you are in this predicament. Please get tested for std and STIs as well as Covid they didnít practice safe sex of distancing. Walk the block, exercise eat healthy and drink water. Best of luck, talk when you are ready. Look after yourself and the children. He can do everything for himself.
One day at a time
Buffer

Grundy456 posted 5/18/2020 04:37 AM

Thank you. Iím planning to get tested but our local clinic is currently closed. I have looked into a postal service but some need for a 6 week wait after exposure I believe. But definitely on the list to do.

Whilst he remains confident he wouldnít be made redundant if they halve the team, Iím not sure sure.

He says no-one knows about their affair but I really canít see theyíd be able to hide it. Their mutual friends husband is likely to have booked both of their flights - she knows. His best friend dropped his work bag round on the day he left - literally dropped and ran - he usually chats and stays for coffee but barely looked at me. Iíd guess he knows.

They would have both been off the same time. She mustíve taken leave. Gone away and come back with a suntan. Where would she say sheíd been? You donít get a tan in the uk in early March! Itíd be a big lie to tell.

He also changed his shift about quite a lot. Our car was off the road as had broken down. He would get lifts and start later/ finish later. I think itís likely that she was giving him lifts or he was staying later to see her as they handed over shifts. I canít imagine an employer liking this so I think, if.my feeling is correct, he may be at risk of losing his job. I think heís taken his eye of his job and been guided by his dick.
I must point this out to him as if any of it is true, itíll give him some more to worry about.

ibonnie posted 5/18/2020 06:40 AM

He says no-one knows about their affair but I really canít see theyíd be able to hide it.

Cheaters are delusional and always say that.

I found a text conversation between my WH (wayward husband) and a work friend, where his friend told him everyone at work was talking about WH and AP (affair partner) having an affair.

WH's response to his friend? He actually told him, "no one knows what's going on, they just all like to talk."

[This message edited by ibonnie at 6:40 AM, May 18th (Monday)]

redwing6 posted 5/18/2020 08:04 AM

I'm a bit late to the show. Sorry you're here. Welcome to the club none of us ever wanted to join. Here's some stuff I've distilled from a number of other posts here. It's a list of things that you might consider using as you decide whether to R or D. That's your choice. Some will advice one way, others the other way. Use what you can and ignore the rest.

1. You have all passwords for everything (phone, electronic devices) and all accounts are open to perusal whenever you need to see them. If he will not give these to you it is a RED FLAG and he is keeping secrets.
2. If he is not safe on the computer, then he uses it in the family room where he can be monitored, OR he loses computer privileges except for work. He lost the right to privacy when he engaged in the activities outside of the marriage.
3. He goes to counseling consistently and for the long term to fix what is broken in him.
4. Complete honesty about everything. Period. This is the only way you will ever be able to trust him again.
5. His location is monitored at all times via the phone.
6. He takes complete responsibility for the affairs/sex outside your marriage. There are many honorable ways he could have expressed dissatisfaction with the marriage or coped with stress other than breaking vows. You ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR HIS SHITTY CHOICES.
7. No contact with any women outside your marriage. Period. It is obvious that he has no boundaries.
8. HE gets no say in how you deal with this. He lost that right when he engaged in the activities outside of the marriage.

That's the only way you'll be able to start a path to R if you so choose. R takes a huge amount of work...and most of it is on or WH. Most can't do it. It takes 2-5 YEARS to complete. Most WS don't have the strength of character to get through it.

Below is a list of what a remorseful WS (Wayward Spouse) should look like. There is a difference between remorse and regret. There is a lot of useful information about this and other affair-related topics in the Healing Library in the yellow box on the upper left.
If a WS is truly remorseful, they:
ē are non defensive
ē examine their motives for their affairs, without blaming their spouses
ē accept their roles as healers to their wounded partners
ē do not resist breaking off all contact with the affair partner
ē show genuine contrition and remorse for what they have done
ē make amends and apologize to loved ones
ē apologize often, especially the first two years
ē listen with patience and validate their spousesí pain
ē allow their spouses a lot of room to express their feelings
ē respect the betrayed spouseís timetable for recovering
ē seek to assure spouses of their love and commitment to fidelity
ē keep no secrets
ē do not maintain close ties with those who condoned the affair
ē are willing to be extremely accountable for their time and activities
ē frequently check in with spouses as to how they are doing
ē are aware of and anticipate triggers of the affair
ē are willing to get rid of hurtful reminders of the affair
ē donít minimize the damage the affair had on the children
commit themselves to a long-term plan for recovery, honesty, and Internal (Spiritual) growth

Most of all, you must get out of infidelity. That's a hard road that all of us have taken. Remember that if we (collectively) sound angry, it's because we don't want you to make the stupid mistakes that we did (man, did I do some dumb shit). I would urge you to contact a solicitor today!. You have to be prepared to end your marriage to save it...and your marriage is over, at least as you knew it before. What comes now is a difficult road.

Whether you choose R or D, we here can be a great sounding board. DO read other threads. DO use us as a sounding board and a safe place to vent. We are on your side...the collective wisdom here is awesome! I just wish this place had existed in the early 90's when I was traveling this path...

[This message edited by redwing6 at 8:10 AM, May 18th (Monday)]

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