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Thanks for all the latest info. Youve given me a thought - maybe his friend has messaged him about it, I may try and take a look. But to be honest, I don’t think he will have done. He’s more likely to have spoken to him directly but most likely to have not said anything at all. But my WS was trying to give his best friend advice when his relationship broke down late last year.

IC = individual counselling.

Here's a list of common abbreviations

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Well we talked about 10 days ago and I told him I’d need him to be honest and tell me what, when and make sure he was honest.

Tonight I’ve suggested he write it down so he can be sure of his facts and not leave anything out.

I need him to be honest and truthful because if we get a few months down the line, attempting R, and I find out he’s not been truthful it’ll all be pointless.

He doesn’t like the idea of writing it down. I did t think he would. I said he would t get himself confused that way.

He doesn’t want to talk full stop. He’s too ashamed. There was a lot of long silences. Lots of looks whilst think he was probably thinking how much the truth is going to hurt me. He’s gone to bed.

What do u need to fix? Please be specific. What was the more he asked you for before affair?

There is no excuse for the affair. Nothing u did to cause it. It is him. He needs to work on him. He needs to go immediate no contact with AP. If that means switching jobs then switch.

What nationality is your husband?

He doesn’t like the idea of writing it down.

He doesn’t want to talk full stop.

Just a heads-up, a thing that often empowers a WS to not do the very basics such as this is ongoing contact with AP. Just want to make sure you're aware of this possibility.

he was probably thinking how much the truth is going to hurt me.

The sad thing is, it's the holding-back of the truth that really devastates over time. Takes a WS a long time to understand that, and most never do.

I need him to be honest and truthful because if we get a few months down the line, attempting R, and I find out he’s not been truthful it’ll all be pointless.

He doesn’t like the idea of writing it down. I did t think he would.

I’m guessing you told him that part, about the fact that a partial truth now is more damaging in the long run. Just get it all out now. Like I said if he omits something I would hint at the notion that you know more. Give him one more try. Then be ready to stick to your guns. Consequences for lying.

My FWH typed it all up but didn’t actually give it to me to read. He didn’t want me re-reading it and studying the words and letting them haunt me. Probably a smart move. They haunt me though as it is. He read it. I think that’s actually helpful for a shameful WS. There less chance of missing a detail and coping with the fallout of the omission later. They can kind of detach by the act of “reading” vs “telling.” Etc. I hope he comes around and I hope he is honest.

The sad thing is, it's the holding-back of the truth that really devastates over time. Takes a WS a long time to understand that, and most never do.

Yep, if he can’t be honest the only way is D. But he will lose face. It’s a tough thing to do. But he’ll lose it anyway.

Just a heads-up, a thing that often empowers a WS to not do the very basics such as this is ongoing contact with AP. Just want to make sure you're aware of this possibility.

Yes I realise this. But he doesn’t know that I can and have been accessing his phone. There is no recent contact. But i realise that at some point they may both return to work together. This isn’t ideal and when the situation is clear, it’ll need to be dealt with. There are no jobs at the moment.

I guess we need to fix us. Individually and as a couple. Life got in the way. He works a rolling shift pattern, 4 days on, 5 off, 6 on, 6 off. I work Monday- Friday. He does 5am-5pm. Goes to bed at 8.30pm. When he’s off he watches Netflix through his phone /headset. It’s very lonely. I got made redundant from my job after 16 years - not just a job, a lifestyle. I’m now in office job for first time ever. It’s taken a long time to adapt. I lack self esteem but have done really well there, if I’m honest. But last year was very stressful - I hated it, felt unsupported at work. I have a parent 2 hours away with terminal cancer, a constant rollercoaster of emotions and emergency hospital admissions (sepsis). 3 children to get to school / help with homework / parent. A house to run. He’s great, he does a lot. Cooks, vacuums, fixes things (slowly) irons (really slowly). I’ve also had some health issues - premature menopause at 42 which took a long time to be recognised. 47 now. Torn shoulder ligament last summer so barely slept. I needed better support, emotional support. I feel he hasn’t given me that. I guess I need that emotional connection to want to be physical - he wanted the affection but I wanted emotion.

Being in lockdown removed a lot of stress somehow. We actually enjoyed each other’s company, spent time together, talked. I’m still working but can dip in and out throughout the day. No mad morning rush getting everyone out of the door, sorting washing, pets.

Thanks reboot- not sure I’ve got the hang of this quote thing!

When I confronted him, he admitted it straightaway. Shame faced and silenced. I told him it’s over, we’re over. He seemed devastated. The next night he sobbed. He’d do anything to fix it. It’s been 3 weeks so not long. Maybe he’ll come round and talk, last night was the first time I’d asked. But maybe he won’t. I think he’s hopeful that he can spare me the truth. I’ve already guessed and he admitted that he’d drop me at work then go to hers for the day. Get home before children got home from school. He’s told me they started sleeping together in January (this may not be the truth). He hasn’t had nights out, not worked late. Maybe stolen kisses in the car when getting a lift. The biggy is the weekend away together I’m guessing. And that involves lying to not only me and children but also his family back home. That’s on a different level of deceit. They’ve spent 3 nights together, gone out as a couple, had dinner, held hands, woken up together.

So we talked a bit. I asked him to acknowledge who she was. He told me it was A. He explained that he’d put As number into his phone under Bs name. But actually it was A that he was having an affair with.

This stopped me in my tracks - My mind tried to work out how I’d got it so wrong - but I hadn’t - he was lying. Without letting on what I’ve seen - I know that the hidden photos are of B. It’s Bs Facebook / messenger profile he was calling. I know that it’s Bs number.

He crumbled after about a minute. But the damage is done. What a lie. Trying to protect her? What they had? Who knows?

After I asked about the weekend away and of course that was denied too. He didn’t protest too much or justify why it couldn’t be true.

What’s our next steps? Counselling? Individual. Will that help him to be accountable and a bit more honest?

I got to be honest with you, I wouldn’t do one bit of counseling with an actively lying cheater. It shows me he doesn’t care about your relationship one bit. He just doesn’t want to be called a cheater.

Seriously, my goal is always as a BS to be as honest as possible with what I need. So my recommendation is to tell him you are done with interacting with a cheater who continues to lie and probs Lt continues to cheat.

My words would be something like:

“It’s clear to me you don’t put me above anyone else in this world. And I don’t need a partner who makes me last in who he cares and worries about. You want A or B, I don’t care. They can have you. I’ll work to mend my broken heart on my own.

If you wanted to show me I’m the only person you care about, you’d be telling me every last detail of your emotional and physical interactions with that trash. You wouldn’t protect them one bit. And you’d be putting together a list of things you could do to repair the damage you’ve done.

You obviously don’t care one bit about that. So I don’t think we need to discuss this anymore. You have chosen to live life outside our marriage so I’ll be working to legally end what you have already destroyed”

Then do just that Grundy. Don’t worry about him. Don’t do anything for him. Don’t talk to him. If he wants it, he’ll figure out what he has to do. If he doesn’t, he won’t.

Therapy won’t start him telling the truth. Don’t waste your time. He just lied to your face when he had the chance to come clean. Right now, he’s a piece of shit and he knows it.

If he wants to change his life and do what’s right by you, he has to do that on his own.

I hope you will think about that.

Take care.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 10:53 PM, May 19th (Tuesday)]

BS only

[This message edited by SI Staff at 5:24 PM, August 6th (Thursday)]

After months in false reconciliation where I was trying my hardest and he was cheating I finally had enough.

Dray2 I was able to verify the affair had resumed and was still happening. So I calmly looked him in the eye and said (very quietly and calmly) “I am D you. You have left with no choice. You are free to go be with the OW or anyone else you choose”.

And I left the room. It was not a discussion.

In that one moment I restored my self esteem and power. His opinion, thoughts, feelings and decision making ability no longer existed because I did not care.

He had plenty of opportunity to tell me he wanted to be with the OW. A few times I even asked him if he wanted a D and he swore up and down it was over and he was not cheating.

As others posted my biggest regret was the pick me dance I did for 6 months.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 8:05 PM, May 20th (Wednesday)]

What’s our next steps? Counselling? Individual. Will that help him to be accountable and a bit more honest?

The next steps, things like counseling and boundaries don't work UNTIL he's honest. If he's not willing to be forthcoming, to answer any question he's asked with complete candor, he's not a candidate for R.

Why did he lie? What is there to protect? You've said the OW is single, so there's no OBS for them to worry about. Is it the job? Is it because they're still seeing each other? There's a REASON why he didn't want you to know her identity. I'd start there. Find out why.

What’s our next steps? Counselling? Individual. Will that help him to be accountable and a bit more honest?

Definitely no marriage counseling with an actively-lying/cheating spouse. It can do incredible damage.

Individual counseling maybe...I suppose it's possible that a *really good* therapist could work with an actively-lying person and make progress over a long period of time, yes.

But don't fall into the trap that many BSs fall into, which is to believe on some level that a therapist--even one trained in marriage counseling--can somehow "fix" everything. They are just people. They drive around in Honda Civics, yell at their kids, and fart in their sleep. They are not gods, and many of them are really awful and do real damage in an infidelity situation.

Marriage counseling is for two people on the same wavelength about their goals, and totally committed to reconciliation. You're not there yet.

~

This was a big, bald-faced lie for your WH, after all you've been through and all he's said. He was crying at one point in the wake of DDay, right?

You've been given a great insight here, actually. You've seen that no matter what he says, if he thinks he can get away with it, he will lie to you. That's really unsafe and not ok in a marriage.

~

I am NOT saying this is unsalvageable or that your situation is hopeless. But I can see you trying and trying and trying to save this thing. And WH keeps lying regardless. Crossing clear boundaries.

You can go another way and see different results by doing the 180. Strikingly different results. Have you read much about it?

No I’m not aware of the 180 - I’ll try to find out about it..

I guess he was lying to protect her, to protect them and himself. I questioned what was going on with her last summer- twice. And of course he went to ground and never mentioned her again.

So I think it’s been going on a whole lot longer than he’s admitting to, certainly on an emotional side, but by using A’s name instead (also a work colleague) I’d believe the ‘only since January’. She’s quite new, he hasn’t really mentioned her.

By saying he’d switched names in his phone, makes me wonder whether he knows I’ve seen his phone. I guessed his pin and he hasn’t changed it. Maybe he’s checked mine and found the screen shots I took.

I’ve checked his phones battery usage and can’t see that he has used any platforms to contact her.

He has said he’ll have to look for another job. It’s possible as they’ll probably make half the team redundant one of them will go anyway. I think they’ll know more at the end of the week.

If you guys are still talking, I'd ask him point blank why he lied about who the OW is. Then, I'd further question him about exactly WHAT he was protecting. "I was protecting her" isn't an answer. You're not the adultery police or an ax-wielding maniac bent on mayhem. It's not like she's in any danger.

It doesn't make sense that he'd give you someone else's name unless he's freaking out about something. I mean, you might have picked up the phone and called that fake person. At that point, someone else in the office would know he's cheating and he could become the focal point of office gossip. It could be, like you've said, that the affair was going on for longer than he's admitted, but still... there's that phone thingy where you would find out you had the wrong name. The OW isn't married so there's no OBS to tell. And if he was worried about the boss finding out, he wouldn't have given you the name of someone he works with. The only thing I can think of is that he REALLY doesn't want you comparing notes with the OW. Maybe he's told her that you're separated or that he's divorced? Maybe he's promised her a future, or given her money, or knocked her up.

You know, we typically advise NOT to talk to an AP. You never know if you're getting the truth or not, and it provides them with attention and centrality, which they can then use to triangulate the affair. But if your WH can't give you a believable answer as to why he gave you a fake name, I think I'd be giving some consideration to calling the OW and getting her side of the story.

I think he’s hiding just how long this has been going on, even if only emotionally. It could be that he was in far deeper than he’d like to admit. Maybe he was trying to shield me from the truth. From when he first started talking about her and they of course started out as friends, work colleagues, she sounded a bit hot headed and straight to the point, argumentative. She absolutely knows he is married and she’s met me and the children. He may have told her, I’m sure he did, that our marriage is struggling. It seems to me that she engineered him getting caught. I feel certain that’s what she wanted. She is 42, single, living with strangers in a shared house in a country far from home. I know that she’s had at least 2 failed relationships since she’s been here (although I’m not sure how long that is).

One scenario could be that she’s hopeful of a last attempt to have a family and settle down. (He’s has the snip so not likely although I’m not sure he’d have told her and if she was hoping to get pregnant she wouldn’t have mentioned contraception).

Maybe she’s an habitual home wrecker - I’m not sure on the status of her previous conquests.

But of course I’m not excusing him. However our relationship lost its spark and energy a long time ago. I can understand why he did it’s if I’m honest with myself. Maybe I’d have done the same if the opportunity had come my way.

Can we get that spark back? Do either of us really want it or are we just scared of change?

One things for sure, we don’t move forward whilst there are lies being told.

Reality check here. Sorry to be blunt but how can you get the spark back if he’s still lying to you?

If it were me I’d have a spark but it would be to kick him to the curb for lying and cheating and continuing to lie after being found out. Oh wait I actually did that at dday2 and after months of false reconciliation.

No I totally get that. I’m not expecting a spark other than thunder bolts right now. I guess I meant can relationships recover when so broken.

I’m clearly better at admitting my failings than him but by that I don’t mean excusing him.

Of course I need truth and honesty- without that we won’t move forward. And that’s down to him. I’m musing whether it’s even possible to recover.