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I see a lot of posts claiming that WH is a great dad and loves his kids...REALLY?! What kind of person decides that his family is worth throwing away for someone else without so much as trying to fix whatever it is they think is wrong. Additionally what makes them think then when they do leave overnight, claim to try and work it out and then leave again that their children will ever respect or trust them again. How can someone with flawed morals believe they are worthy of their children and of being a parent! I can’t wrap my head around any of this. How do they think everything should go back to what it was...with the little difference of them not being in the same home!? How can they think they can parent while in “the fog?”

It makes me sick to see my little guy spend any amount of time with WH. Other kids continue to refuse to see him and of course it’s all my fault

He certainly has nothing to teach them about relationships, respect, honesty, etc.....

I’m so sick of covering for him, of not saying anything negative about him in front of the kids and of encouraging them to communicate with him when in my heart and brain I don’t believe he is a good dad anymore.

I can’t wrap my head around any of this.

Don't try or you will just keep yourself twisted up in knots. He (and any of his flying monkeys) will continue with their mental gymnastics to spin it to make him the good guy. You can't control it, but you can take some comfort in knowing the truth.

I’m so sick of covering for him, of not saying anything negative about him in front of the kids and of encouraging them to communicate with him when in my heart and brain I don’t believe he is a good dad anymore.

First, stop covering for him. That doesn't mean going full throttle disparaging of him. Rather, it means a short and sweet honest response with no gory details needed (age appropriate, of course).

Second, DO continue not to say anything nasty about him. But again, doesn't mean going over the top with sugar coated words. You can speak the truth without all the gory details or trash talking him.

Lastly, you don't have to encourage your kids to communicate with their father. It is up to him to maintain their relationship. Just make sure they are available/able to communicate if they desire to do so. In other words, don't block their ability to do it, but don't try to be the relationship manager. If he wants a relationship with his kids, it is entirely up to HIM to make that happen. You just need to be supportive if they do choose to have that relationship. Taking that high road is a bitter pill to swallow, but it is well worth it where the kids are concerned.

He certainly has nothing to teach them about relationships, respect, honesty, etc.....

And that is where you can shine as a parent! YOU can teach them about relationships, respect, and honesty. Be that solid, honest, supportive parent they need. They will figure out their father on their own as they grow up, and they will determine the direction of their relationship. But they will always know they can count on you to steer them in the right direction.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:05 PM, June 23rd (Tuesday)]

Breakingapart

I am in this head space currently too. I cannot grasp what my WH did to me let alone our DS ( left and returned 7 times before leaving for the 8th time on FATHERS DAY, yep you got it. He left on Fathers Day without saying goodbye to his DS. He said bye to the dog though. I don't want him around my DS either, he doesn't deserve to have him in his life. Currently DS is refusing all contact but that will probably change in the future. I will have to suck that bitter pill and let it happen. Its not right though

Breakingapart

I see a lot of posts claiming that WH is a great dad and loves his kids...REALLY?! What kind of person decides that his family is worth throwing away for someone else without so much as trying to fix whatever it is they think is wrong.

I think the same thing with regard to my STBXW. She's teetering on being a bad mother. Some of the shit she's suggested or done in the last five years betrays a fundamental respect for rationality. I agree with you - what kind of person betrays their family, doesn't try to fix it, and acts like a spoiled teenager? Not a good parent.

Additionally what makes them think then when they do leave overnight, claim to try and work it out and then leave again that their children will ever respect or trust them again. How can someone with flawed morals believe they are worthy of their children and of being a parent! I can’t wrap my head around any of this. How do they think everything should go back to what it was...with the little difference of them not being in the same home!? How can they think they can parent while in “the fog?”

They're egocentric and narcissistic. Nothing can go back to what it was. It necessarily has to change. They can, theoretically, become a good person...But that requires actual effort.

It makes me sick to see my little guy spend any amount of time with WH. Other kids continue to refuse to see him and of course it’s all my fault

He certainly has nothing to teach them about relationships, respect, honesty, etc.....

Of course he wouldn't take responsibility for it. Ugh.

I’m so sick of covering for him, of not saying anything negative about him in front of the kids and of encouraging them to communicate with him when in my heart and brain I don’t believe he is a good dad anymore.

I feel this. I really do.

I feel the same way and now that we are IHS he became father of the year and my two kids are falling for it hook line and sinker. It's not fair. While I don't want them to Not have a relationship it all hurts at the same time and I feel like the one who got screwed.

I was guilty of bad mouthing at times and have since nipped that in the bud. I don't want to be THAT parent and I was becoming that way.

What helped me was to distinguish them as separate relationships. My relationship with my kids is mine and mine only and WS is his. I don't interfere or help communications between my WS and the kids anymore. They can see his flaws I believe but love their dad. I can only imagine how difficult it is for them too.

My WH is a Shit Father and he proves it time and time again.

Lies to our children all the time. Narcissistic liar.

It’s, do as I say, not as I do...

That’s the true definition of a SHIT DAD!

We have a term for these people, it’s not nice but it’s true, put the S word and the C word together and you have my WH.

Recently complaining about the cost of sending my DS to study abroad to complete his Masters Degree.

Again coming from the uneducated cesspit of SHIT DADS, who squandered $100k on wonderful educational experiences for himself such as Anal Sex with a prostitute. My WH graduated with Honours.

How can they think they can parent while in “the fog?”

I worry about this too. We only separated 2 months ago and I am seeing that while AP broke it off WH appears to be pining away and preoccupied with winning her back (still in regular contact, of course she's just a friend now all of a sudden) while simultaneously claiming he is in IC to learn why he made the mistakes he did and be a better dad...

They can, theoretically, become a good person

LostOne -this is a topic of debate. Not sure I agree that they can "become a good person". Aren't we organically hard wired with moral compasses? Perhaps we can learn new behaviors and learn how to make good choices, with effort. But does that make one a "good person" all of a sudden? Isn't a "good person" just naturally feel like they should do the right thing and not have to call upon enormous, re-learned efforts to mimic the actions of a good person for the sake of looking good?

Conversely, I struggled with this in that my biblical teachings support that we are all born, (for lack of a better word) "bad" people by human nature, and that only by owning it and handing it over that we are forgiven for it and go and try again. Even further, we are taught that no one sin is worse than another. So example - if the checker at the store forgot to ring up something and I knew it and didn't say anything - that this is no worse than having been a repeated adulterer and verbal abuser hurting my entire family for years - provided we have repented and changed our ways. Unfortunately, this allows for forgiveness over and over - which is partially why I was "stuck" in a cheating, abusive relationship perhaps longer than I would have had I abandoned those beliefs.

(Sorry Breaking Apart for the slight hijack) back to your posted topic:

Just make sure they are available/able to communicate if they desire to do so. In other words, don't block their ability to do it, but don't try to be the relationship manager. If he wants a relationship with his kids, it is entirely up to HIM to make that happen. You just need to be supportive if they do choose to have that relationship.

This is good advice, I also find myself trying to do this

It is very hard for all of us as good parents I'm sure, to feel like we no longer have any control over what they are showing our kids - I guess we have to take comfort in what Phoenix said about shining - so that at least they can hopefully one day realize the difference!

From a WH: no, he cannot.

Sure he can do everything else right, but he has lost the moral authority to parent and model morals, kindness, love, and commitment. He can go to school events dotingly; he can go to every dr appointment and school meeting; he can do chores and cook and clean and provide, but he can never ever do what is most important for a father to do: show his kids through actions how to love a spouse with respect and honesty and devotion and be a real equal partner. He can't show his sons how to treat women and he cant show his daughters how a woman should be treated.

This is me. Parent to three great kids, but rendered unable to be a good father the way they need and deserve because my cheating, lying, abusive actions and the horrible damage and pain inflicted on their mother is the legacy they and she have. I have no moral authority to correct them when they lie or break the law or act like a selfish asshole or teat others with contempt. sure i can be a hypocrite, but they see right through that and any life lesson is lost because I am NOT a good dad.

Him quitting and leaving is further insult to injury.

I want to believe that change is possible and that there is a good lesson left to be taught: how to face consequences and be accountable and remorseful and contrite. That would be valuable to those kids. Truth be told I have not done this myself either, and consistently slip back into selfish, narcissistic behavior and I am not sure if there is time left to show them real actions that are good. They deserve me to try to do it and really change, but Even if I can, they will never have the good dad they deserve.

[This message edited by wantstorepair at 6:48 PM, June 25th (Thursday)]

I applaud your response wantstorepair. I wish my WH could read your words and understand the damage he has caused and the consequences of his actions. Sadly, he has heard those words by his family as well as his former closest friends and he was willing to take that chance and continue to pursue OW. I am so scared that he will never appreciate the complete devastation he has caused!

I hope you have the courage to share this with your kids.

I have only been texting WH regarding the kids and finances. He seems SO angry! He also seems to blame me for the kids not wanting to see him or speak to him. He won’t even look at me when he comes to get my youngest for a visit.

Normal behaviour?

Breakingapart - validation??

WOW wantstorepair..

I for one as a follower of this conversation really appreciate your candor. It hurts my heart to hear you admit that perspective, but I know that you are right and it reinforces my recent decision to move forward with divorce while there's still time to set an example at least that a person should not allow it.

(a part of me wants to copy and paste your comments and text it to my WH and shame him but I know that was not your intent for this post)

FWIW wantstorepair, I'm glad you commented here if nothing else for your contribution to help us WS's heal. I hope you can find the motivation to at least try to do the piece you said you hadn't done. I don't think it would ever be too late for a kid to hear how much a wayward parent messed up, my sister is 64 years old and still wishes my mother whom is now 92, (was a cheater) and to this day has never apologized or acknowledged how horrible it was that my sister was having to hide my mother's affair from me, 12 years younger - she would babysit while my mother would go out with her AP. My narcissistic mother says "she's an adult and needs to get over it". :( My sister has shared many, many times she would have, if she had been validated... so keep that in mind if you truly want to repair some of the damage.

I have only been texting WH regarding the kids and finances. He seems SO angry! He also seems to blame me for the kids not wanting to see him or speak to him. He won’t even look at me when he comes to get my youngest for a visit.

Normal behaviour?

Sadly, yes, normal for an unremorseful WS. Classic behavior straight from the Cheater's Handbook.

Often, the harder the BS sticks to NC (other than necessary kids/finance issues) the more the WS ramps up the crazy. We've seen it really go off the rails over the years. Really gets bad if they are NPD. Why? Because they are losing control and they despise that. Expect the blameshifting to continue and the anger to possibly escalate the more he feels he is unable to control you or the situation. Many feed off the power of manipulation, like a vampire. Cutting off their power means cutting off the vampire's blood supply.

This is where it is critical to stay the course with as much NC as possible. Don't engage no matter how tempting at times. Let him huff, puff, and blameshift. Do not let him think it bothers you, even if it does. Complete grey rock and basic civility when necessary.

Hang in there! You've got this!

It’s such BULL! We are all on here trying to figure them out, tip toeing around them, suffering with our kids and they have decided that they are more important...their « happiness «  is worth more than their spouses and children. I have glimpses of happy moments with my kids and then it all comes flooding back. I don’t feel like my heart is healing. My brain is waayyyy ahead!

Betrayedafter20 I’m not sure what you mean by validation?

Thank you all for your responses , I am so thankful for SI!

Also...advice on 180 and gray rock when speaking (texting and emailing) to WH about kids?

I get you 100%. No a good father does not toss his family aside for an affair. My kids have learned what NOT to do and how NOT to behave. Sad but true. He hasn't seen them in four months because of COVID. Now mind you he's living with his gf and her kids. She works in a hospital and her kids, friends, etc. are in and out all day long. He has not quarantined at all and never wears a mask. He is coming in two weeks for a 2 night visit and then he's off again. He claims he is too busy to stay longer. Word is he has a vacation planned with gf. A year after divorce, my kids still won't meet his gf. It pisses him off to no end but it's their choice. They are in college and can make that decision for themselves. I stay out of it. It's his relationship with them; not mine. I don't bash him although he gives me ample ammunition. That said, my kids see him for what he is. I don't have to say a word. I've become the reliable and fun parent; the rock they can count on. Our relationship is wonderful and that part I wouldn't change. I wish it were different for their sakes with their father but there is nothing I can do about that. Hang in there. Pheonix is right - you get to be the parent that shines. Enjoy that role and forget about his shitty behavior. It's hard and took me a long while but when you let it go it really is freeing. Be well.

Also...advice on 180 and gray rock when speaking (texting and emailing) to WH about kids?

For the 180, go to The Healing Library. Click on "BS FAQ" at the top and scroll to #11.

You can Google "gray rock," but it essentially means any time you must interact with your WH you do so with no emotion, no extra chit chat. You become a boring, unreadable gray rock. This keeps him from having any insight into your thoughts, emotions, or anything else. You text/email with the briefest of answers that are straight to the point. Nothing extraneous. Same if you ask a question. You can be civil without being friendly.

Hope that helps.

ETA: It takes a while for your heart to catch up to your head, but it will. Emotional detachment is critical. Hang in there, it gets better!

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:51 PM, June 26th (Friday)]

Give me a break “wantstorepair”

You haven’t been “rendered unable” to be a good dad.

You CHOSE a lifetime of cheating and being a horrible parent.

You were cheating before you brought kids into the world, you were cheating as you created kids, you were cheating when they were born, you were cheating throughout their entire childhoods. You swore lies on their very lives, which you didn’t even have the decency to protect with condoms when they were in utero and you were gleefully exposing them to disease and possible death.

You use them to provide cover for your cheating lifestyle and as pawns in your manipulative abusive way of life. And now you make zero effort to be a non cheating decent human being, let alone a good parent. You are quite willing to model anger, entitlement, shortcuts, law breaking, rule breaking and dishonesty. All the public performances in the world of so called “doting” school events and doctors appointments aren’t undoing the damage you are inflicting daily while you pat yourself on the back and complain about your missing “moral authority.” You have literally actively encourage them to break laws and be liars. That’s not having the “moral authority” to correct them, it’s horrific behavior an an entirely different level.

Stop whining about your lost “moral authority” and start facing the reality of your ACTIONS.

Platitudes and disingenuous words posted here are ridiculous when your horrible behaviors are unchanged. An active cheater’s mindset is incompatible with being a good parent.

The only thing you seem to “want to repair” is your image in the eyes of others, yet you having nothing for the innocent lives you continue to destroy.

[This message edited by 3greatkids at 3:19 AM, June 26th (Friday)]

Breakingapart

To clarify "validation" meaning your original post question seems answered clearly by wantstorepair as a rep of the cheating WS's.

By the response - I'm also wondering if possibly 3greatkids is wantstorepair's BW...

I think I’m practicing 180 and grey rock pretty well...maybe that’s why he is so pissed at me...

I really just want him to go away...for good! That would be the easiest....i also wish I could destroy OW without looking like a crazy person!!!!

My 11 yr old had a rough night last night and despite our tears...he made me laugh when he said « did you punch him in the face? » no...i didn’t...but I wish I would have!!! I didn’t say that...but I wanted to!

Wantstorepair sounds like you have a long way to go....thanks for your words if you actually mean them...