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My WS has gotten his own apartment and is living his fantasy life with his younger limerent AP. We are now technically separated and trying to figure out the finances on our own so we can hire one lawyer and save money on the fees. It's crazy how child support is so little and barely pays for anything?! I feel like child support should be MUCH higher so people can be more weary of getting a divorce. That's another topic though. Now that we're kind of figuring out our finances and how to separate them and how much he has to pay me. I'm finding it hard to go through with the divorce. I kind of just want to stay separated and hold off on the divorce papers? Maybe deep down inside I still feel like there is some hope even though NONE of his actions have shown me that. I don't know why I can't move forward with it. How do I know when to let go? I mean he is literally out of the house, refuses to come in, and is pursuing a relationship with this limerent AP and is telling me he does not want to be with me. But I just can't seem to let go. We have a one year old baby and 12 years together, and I am having a hard time just letting it all go in 2 months (DDay was 2 months ago). I read somewhere here "let his actions show you the real man he is"

something along those lines, and I can't find it, but I need to find it and write it on my mirrors and walls. His actions are showing me but I just don't know what to do and how to move forward. I am going forward now with NC with him unless child or financial related. He did tell me on the phone the other day that he also wanted to communicate with me just in general and he understands why I don't want to talk to him, but he wants to keep the lines of communication open and I just disregarded him. I don't think he deserves to have his cake and eat it too by talking to me as "friends" How does someone know when to let go and move forward with the divorce? How can someone navigate through this pain. I am so thankful for this group because I feel like everyone has gone through it so I feel very supported. Did your WS turn into a complete stranger that curses you out and speaks disrespectful to you? I've been with him for 12 years and NEVER has he ever raised his voice at me or cursed at me, and as soon as his affair is exposed, he is like a complete stranger who only knows how to curse and be mean to me and nice to me whenever he feels. He treats me like a piece of garbage that he can be nice to and mean to whenever he wants. Usually, he's really mean to me if I mention ANYTHING about the limerent AP being a slut or whore, but that just shows real cases of limerence. Help mee...I'm trying my best to be strong, but it's really hard to detach.

I'm sorry you are having such a hard time. It will take some time, but things will become easier.

he wants to keep the lines of communication open

He should have done that BEFORE the A and separation.

As for calculating CS, I hope you are filling out the form yourself. You can hire an attorney and still negotiate with your WH directly. At the very least you need to consult with an attorney so that you understand your position.

I was lucky and my D was pretty simple. My XWW and I both wanted things to go smoothly and we were able to work things out without much input from lawyers and it wasn't terribly expensive. I think part of that is neither of us had money to spend.

If your WH is trying to have you NOT speak to attorney, that is a BIG red flag.

(((ResilientSoul))) It takes a long time to heal from this and for the heart to catch up with your head. No Contact except for the child and finances should be all the communication that is necessary. I would also look into parallel parenting. You do not need to communicate with him for any other reason. He is not your friend. Most WS's are mean when they are active in the A. I believe it helps them to not deal with shame. Don't let him talk to you that way. Hang up the phone or walk away. Practice gray rocking everytime he seeks a reaction from you. Put him on ignore.

This is an unbelievable painful trauma. Be kind to yourself. You and your baby did not deserve this and a man that can leave his wife and child for another woman is complete trash as far as I'm concerned. You deserve peace and happiness and special time with your baby.

(((resiliantsoul)))

It IS so hard. SO. FUCKING. HARD. But it is okay that it's hard. You have over a decade with this person. Even though he has turned into a hostile stranger doesn't mean that switch is going to flip immediately. Practice NC as much as possible - it does get easier with time. Forgive yourself if you slip. Right now your stbxwh is like a bad habit for you. It's been a habit for a long time and changing those habits takes time and effort. But they do eventually change and it isn't so hard. And just IMHO, the sooner you perfect NC, the sooner you move into the relatively calmer waters of acceptance.

And you damn straight he is not your friend. Color me crazy but my friends aren't cruel and hurtful.

Also so important to remember, but you are going to be OK, no matter what happens. You really really will. Just keep taking the steps you need to to get away from the toxic person he has become.

Thank you so much. I have now taken the steps to do NC at all unless it's baby or business related, which seems to confuse him. He is still trying to talk as friends, and I just ignore him. Now he is asking why I'm ignoring him, and I am not answering. I want him to feel it. He made his bed, now he needs to feel what it's like now that I'm not in his life. He needs to understand that he gave everything up for this home wrecking slut.

From your experiences, do they ever regret their decision? or are they too proud to admit it even if they do?

Sure my STBX regrets his decision but doesn't mean he's going to stop. My STBX hasn't changed his behavior at all says he's worked hard on the M and is blaming me for giving up. No matter what happens my STBX is always the victim

Sorry you are going through this ResilientSoul. No contact except for kids and finance issues is for you. To help you detach and start to heal from the trauma your WH has dumped on you. He might regret his actions one day. Some cheaters do. But it doesn’t matter as long as their actions show he is still with the OW. Of course he wants to be friends. They all do. If he is your friend, then he can tell himself that what he did isn’t so bad is it. But your friends do not lie to you, betray you and stab you in the back. What he did is horrific, leaving his BW and young child to be with his AP. Maintain your no contact. No contact equals no new hurts.

See an attorney and get a separation agreement. Make sure the OW has no access to your baby. Your WH has moved out to be with his OW. He will cake eat as long as you allow it. File for D and his fantasy life ends quickly. You and your baby deserve better than this cruel jerk. Good luck.

[This message edited by fareast at 10:03 PM, July 2nd (Thursday)]

He’s trying to do everything to absolve himself of any guilt.

If you are friends w/ him — he can tell himself we are just one big happy family and see — I did nothing wrong. Everyone wants me to be happy and I deserve to be happy no matter what.

Blah blah blah

He’s a really poor excuse of a person - and as I said earlier you are lucky to find out now. He’s not mature enough to be a dad and clearly he’s not fatherhood or parenthood material b/c he just up and ran like a scared child.

ResilientSoul,

Give it time. Two months is not a long time. I'm about 4 months ahead of you, and it was just last week that I began to lift my head and really understand who my WH is. Keep working on as much NC as possible. I felt like you did in the beginning - it's a process. We feel it's impossible that they could be so cruel after having been married to us for years and having children and choosing to have an A instead of working on the marriage. And after hurting us so badly, why on earth wouldn't they at least be as nice as possible to lessen the pain??? So we keep contact with them thinking surely they will wake up and snap out of it and realize how much they've lost. That they will validate us and agree what a loser the AP is.

Nope. The only thing they are sorry for losing is the ability to have cake and eat it too. And, unfortunately, what I'm finding is the more NC I go, the more hostile he is - so you can probably expect this to not go away.

That said, what also happens - you will truly be able to see him more objectively - the jerk that he really is - and you will feel very certain that it is the right thing to be away from him and that's when NC becomes less effort. I'm in that place just this week - where I am connecting:

Contact involving any personal conversation = stress and pain, and he is not changing. In other words, RS, you actually have some control over how much pain you have going forward.

NC = Pain Management

Your WH sounds a lot like mine in the way he claims to want to be "friends" and then in person he is barely civil to me - now almost hostile. It wasn't that way the first few weeks after last DDay b/c he wasn't in contact with OW (she had "broken up" with him) but I could tell almost immediately the day that changed and he was talking to her again because it was simultaneous with when he began being mean to me again.

RS, you will have good days and bad days - heck it even changes within a few hours. You will be challenged with triggers and may cave with contact here and there. And then you will realize that it wasn't helpful. You will have moments of complete despair that are entirely justified and horrible - and you will have moments of strength and clarity. The latter is not as frequent in the beginning - but you will find that as each week goes by the moments of strength and clarity begin to outweigh the agony. I promise.

Prayer sent to you and your ((baby)) you will both be in a better place - thankfully very young so likely no memory of this.

There is a lot of good advice here. So I just want to acknowledge your pain and how hard this really all is.

You'll begin to see the benefit of NC to you since your WS may never acknowledge or have the capability to see what was done is wrong. Talk to a lawyer and get the separation (legal) process started. If you delay that you may find that you are stuck in limbo longer than you want when you are able to regain your bearings.

We are now technically separated and trying to figure out the finances on our own so we can hire one lawyer and save money on the fees.

I think you'd be wise to get your own attorney. I know it's tempting to keep legal fees down, but there's a whole lot to think about in raising a child through college. You might even be able to get some support for job-training if he's making more than you are.

In terms of making the break, there are things you can try, like changing his name in your phone contacts to "CheatieMcCheater" or "Fuckwit", making lists of all the things he's done to hurt or annoy you, burning mementos in your firepit, etc. But the best thing is NC. NC includes not only avoiding him, but avoiding information about him, not checking his social media, letting friends know that you aren't interested in gossip... and keeping him off your mind. Treat your brain like you TV and keep your clicker on hand. If he pops in like a bad commercial, change the channel. Little habits add up, and the more you're filling your life up, the less room there is for thoughts of your ex.

So, I think it's sort of a two-fold process. One, really accepting that your ex is a toxic, unlikable, person. And two, training your brain to eliminate him as little more than a nuisance in your otherwise full life.

How does someone know when to let go and move forward with the divorce?

My WS has gotten his own apartment and is living his fantasy life with his younger limerent AP.

Maybe deep down inside I still feel like there is some hope even though NONE of his actions have shown me that.

I mean he is literally out of the house, refuses to come in, and is pursuing a relationship with this limerent AP and is telling me he does not want to be with me.

He treats me like a piece of garbage that he can be nice to and mean to whenever he wants.

I feel like you answered your own question a few times and just wanted to point it out to you. I'd keep reading that over and over again for starters.

Cut yourself some slack. It's been two months since your world has just been upended. And you have a one year old on top of that.

You're still in shock. Eventually the shock is going to wear off and how you've been treated by your husband is going to sink in. I mean REALLY sink in. Then you'll have more of an idea of how to handle things.

But two months??? It's still really early after your D-day. If I were in your shoes I'd file and have him served just to see his reaction. Might get him to pull his head out of his ass when it sinks in for him what he stands to lose.

And if he doesn't??? I know you still love him but from an outsiders point of view he doesn't exactly sound like a prize. Whether you reconcile or divorce, eventually that will sink in for you too.

And you don't have to rush on starting divorce proceedings although I'd advise against staying in limbo too long. IMO that can cause even more emotional harm than actually taking the steps to file for divorce. And I'm not sure where you live but even if you file for divorce it's not like it will be granted instantly. You can always call it off during the process.

[This message edited by JS84 at 6:32 AM, July 4th (Saturday)]

We are now technically separated and trying to figure out the finances on our own so we can hire one lawyer and save money on the fees.

I second the opinion that you need your own attorney. This is not a person you can trust to 'work with' on such important decisions that will affect you for the rest of your life. This isn't just to get what is 'fair'. This is to determine what is an equitable split of a financial partnership of more than a decade together that includes a young child to raise, who obviously will be more your responsibility than his. (Isn't it nice he can go move in with Ho, knowing Mommy is there to care for his one year old? How convenient he doesn't have to deal with babysitters for that and full time nannys are very expensive btw)

This is a negotiation that has LEGAL precedents that are there to protect you and your child. Without your own lawyer you are giving things up you may be unaware of. No one ever regrets being to tough in divorce, they only regret not being tough enough. I would bet money that whatever you save in legal fees will be lost many times over on your end in the years ahead. I was the same as you and had a lot of people push me (including my lawyer), to demand more than I thought I needed or deserved. Thank God I listened. It doesn't have to be contentious with him and can be just as 'friendly' as using one lawyer, if he so chooses, but that is up to him.

As far as the finalizing of any decisions, and dealing with the emotional angle, you have some good advice here. Don't forget, you can always delay or cancel a divorce, or even remarry if he miraculously changes after the fact. It is completely normal to balk. It just feels terribly wrong to end a family, but he already did, this is just the legal part where you will be protected. It is also actually a nice feeling knowing that someone off kilter enough to cheat, lie, and move out on his new baby and wife, will no longer be legally connected to you if they do something stupid going forward.

Take care of yourself.

From your experiences, do they ever regret their decision? or are they too proud to admit it even if they do?

Usually not the way you are thinking. Only regrets for conveniences sake maybe if the exciting new partner goes away, and then only until some other thought or person fills the void. I finally realized that they just think differently and wouldn't relate to regret the way me or you would. Not at a heart level. They would not be able to do what they've done if they had deep connections. Especially in your case with such a little baby.

Since you are only two months out btw, you don't have to feel pressure to file for divorce, but you can still prepare. Or you can take a little more time to still settle in. Good job on the 180, keep it up. He needs no explanation on why you aren't engaging. Just yes or no is enough and only that when needed for child/finance issues.

Who went to the atty first? If your WS did, then they are pulling the wool over your eyes. According to an atty I saw, he said,”We can make this cheap-like $250, if you both agree on everything. However, I actually represent you, your WH should have his own atty actually look over the agreement, but I represent your best interests, since you hired me”.

Your atty can request your WS pay your atty fees. Make sure your agreement says You will be claiming your child on taxes -you will now be able to file Head of Household with many tax credits. Be sure to get first right of refusal, and final say in all issues. You also want It to say he has to pay the day care fee if he doesn’t get your child on his days/weeks.