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I need WS to cut out OM completely, she said she is unwilling. They are just friends. She told me the reason she kept him as a friend was to prove to me that nothing was going on? I told her it doesn't work that way. That makes it so much worse.

We are losing our house and I was depressed about it. She said she lost feeling for me during that time. She said it was a kind of abuse towards her, that I made her feel bad about herself. I asked if I had ever said anything abusive. She said 'No'. So I guess emotional abuse?? I was not attentive during those two years, but I loved her and just thought we were going through a rough patch.

She told me (for the first time) that I was bad/boring in bed. We have been married 12 years and have three kids and I have never heard that before. That hurt. That coupled with the betrayal pretty much kills my confidence with any woman ever. I wasn't very experienced when we met. I asked why she didn't bring it up before. She didn't know why. I told her I would love to have more/exciting sex (who wouldn't), but I can't because of OM and the threat he represents. She has always been physically attractive to me, but she is not the person I have known for 90% of our relationship. Her gentle spirit and optimism are gone. I told her we would have to start over and be very giving and understanding with one another.

I know it is such a male ego thing, but knowing I wasn't fulfilling my wife's sexual needs just cuts really deep. I always wanted her to be pleasured first, she said she didn't really like that. We tried some dirtier stuff, she said she didn't like that either. I asked her what she liked. At first she said she didn't know, then said she just wanted more passion/energy. I am a naturally reserved guy, so I can understand that at least.

I told her she should have divorced/separated/MC before cheating. I told her she has no idea of the effect it has on a person. I told her she lied and broke promises. I told her I didn't deserve it no matter how bad of a husband I was. I thought I was at least a decent husband. She said I was a decent husband, that she was a bad wife.

I said how unfair it was that I may miss out on 50% of the rest of my children's childhoods because of her cheating. I asked why the kids should have to move schools and lose there friends because of our marital crap. This is the worst part of this whole ordeal. This is the child-raising time of my life and now that has been compromised.

We hurt each other, cried, hugged, talked about divorce and/or separation. We still want to live out the lease on our rental through next May. We want to handle our other house. We have been approved for a Deed In Lieu. She assured me I would not have to miss out on anything with the kids. That I could contact them whenever. It isn't the same.

I told her if she had a change of heart to let me know, not to bury it. I told her I was still hoping for a miracle, that I was still wanting to work on it (without OM). She told me that even if he were gone I could never forgive her and feel comfortable. I said we won't know if we don't try.

Just wanted to write it out. I had been 180ing but this cut right through that. I hope somebody else on this forum is having a good day at least.

Will anything good ever come out of this nightmare?

Your wife sounds exactly like me - I was not thrilled with the intamcy that XH and I had, I was bored and lost, and I felt really emotionally abandoned by my XH. When the ONS came out, i remember even saying that it had nothing to do with my XH being a bad husband, I was the bad wife....

At that time I was deeply depressed,and still very much into the fog.

She REALLY REALLY REALLY needs to get into IC and for you both to get into MC.

If she's anything like me, she is currently re-writing the marriage history to justify what she has done, and she is trying to make herself to be the bad guy so that all the blame is on her no matter what.

She's totally ashamed at this point, but you have to keep you footing in it.

NC MUST be done with OM, and she MUST be transparent with you.

While I was in this mode and in the fog, I was pretty much done, but it was because i couldnt understand how someone could love me dispite what i had done. I hand no desire to feel loved and I wanted to crawl into a hole and hide.

[This message edited by Undefinabl3 at 9:05 AM, October 3rd (Wednesday)]

She told me (for the first time) that I was bad/boring in bed. We have been married 12 years and have three kids and I have never heard that before.

Mess - don't buy into that line of crap. This is a fairly standard insult, straight from the unremorseful WW handbook. She's justifying the A to herself and doing it at your expense. It's bull. Plain and simple.

Even IF it were true (and I sincerely doubt that), healthy grown ups in relationships COMMUNICATE about what they want/need from the other partner. They don't sit back waiting for the partner to read their minds. It's just a load of crap.

((((Mess))))

She REALLY REALLY REALLY needs to get into IC and for you both to get into MC.

I have been pushing for IC for her for this and for other things she has gone through that I don't think have been dealt with. She just refuses to go. I don't understand it.

We were going to MC, but when I finally mentioned the OM and his impact on me she couldn't make the next appointment, then quit because she said it was driving us farther apart.

Thank you for your insight Undefinabl3. I am not the only one who has tried to get her into IC. Her friends have suggested it to, even the OM suggested it. Maybe they are just friends now, but it doesn't erase what happened.

My friend

She is Blameshifting you big time.....right out of the cheaters handbook.

Take what she says with a grain of salt.

I really doubt anything here she says about your sex life. 12 years?? I think she might have mentioned it a time or two. Give me a break!

Not fullfilling her emotional needs.....ohhhh I got that too. True enough I had failures in that, maybe you did too, but those issues should be addressed as M partners within the M, not by one party going out and having an A.

My ex pulled the same crap in regards to OM. She worked for him and would not give up her job and wanted him to be her "friend". She was just wanting to keep her fantasy alive hoping it would work out. Guess what, it didn't and by the time she figured it out it was too late for us. I was not going to be her plan B.

You say your WW is not the same person she use to be. Mine changed as well into a creature I to this day do not reconize. It was as if a Narcissitic monster took over her body and once that beast had its claws in her there was no turning back. So what you discribe sounds very familure to me and it all hurt for a time. Looking back now....I know I would not want to spend my life with a person like that, capable of such cruilty and that realization is what set me free in so many ways. Now I live my life on my terms and no one elses.

My friend I am 3 years out from D-Day and 19 months out of my D. Much of what you wrote, I have experianced and I can tell you, you will overvome this. Focus of yourself and your children, rebuild your self esteem, find the strength to stand again. You can do it and you will be fine.

IMO she is telling you exactly what she wants. Give it to her.....and move on with your life. There is a quote I will leave you with.

Being strong is not hard when its the only choice you have.

Good luck

Translation--"I'm going to cheat on you, then insult you further and tell you it's your fault so I don't have to feel bad."

Just realize you did nothing to deserve this and it was all her .

I need WS to cut out OM completely, she said she is unwilling.

Oh Mess, I am sorry. At this point, I believe you must do a hard 180 and tell her that until she is fully NC with OM you are unwilling to continue with the marriage. Begin the legal proceedings.. it doesn't mean this is the end. You need to start protecting yourself. She doesn't get to make deals when it comes to HIM. He is out or you are out.

You deserve so much better than this

I just feel so bad for my kids (10,8,7). I know everyone says they will be happier if they see their parents happy, but it doesn't feel that way now.

My parents divorced when I was 23-24, but I still know it impacted my outlook regarding marriage and relationships in general.

In addition, neither of my parents seem happier now, and it has been many years (I am 35). So I worry about not being able to get back to that state again.

Just sucks for them. But I will have to put on a good front until I can get my shit together in my mind.

I do have some great friends and am already comfortable with IC. Plus my family will be supportive so it could be worse for me!

Seems like she's either still in the A, or very deep in post-A fog. I agree that she is blame shifting. I know that's probably small comfort--telling someone they're bad in bed is just plain mean.

NC with the OM is a non-negotiable though. Until she is willing to do that, good riddance. File for D and 180.

Mess, so sorry to hear what you are dealing with. My situation was/is very similar to yours, cept now my WW openly says she continues to have feelings (won't use the word love), and wants to take things further with this married asshole at work. What I have learned is air-tight NC is absolutely a non negotiable first step issue... They balk for any reason you file for D. Please do not continue at all toward R unless this and many other things are done.

You might have to look forward to as I did to: Super cake eating, saying crazy shit with no regard/empathy for my 17 y/o DDs feelings, like "I don't see why this (can't even say the word affair) is effecting you so much" even after seeing her shake with pain from affair fallout, tells me to "grow up and get over it", "our marriage was dead years ago", tells me that my depression was an excuse (yeah wanting to kill myself every fucking day is a real pic-nik) because you had everything, are super intelligent and could have chosen to fix it, will not consider IC even if I am no longer around, says if I was a REAL husband two years ago this would have never happened, has shown me and my daughter ZERO remorse (straight up said no regrets for the affair), says what she is doing is wrong, but can't stop it...

Like you, it is like looking at the same person with a demon who took over... The power of the affair, and to what lengths they will go to justify it is beyond the comprehension of sane, rational people. They truly are scum, and if that offends folks, walk in my shoes and see how you feel.

Shockleader, sorry right back at you. I don't have it that bad yet, but I agree that total NC is the only way, just took me awhile to get there.

I have been told to 'man-up' and 'put my big boy pants on'. Those gems didn't come with much context, maybe because of my sadness following the '..not in love with you' discussion in January. I guess I shouldn't have cried as much...I don't know. Finding this site and doing the 180 was the only thing that helped that.

She also has mentioned all of us moving away to another state/country, but then in the next sentence says that won't fix anything.

She also has told me I don't know how it feels to feel like she does towards me. She said she wants to have 'those' feelings but doesn't.

She also says I am not meeting her needs, but she said she isn't going to tell me what they are because 'that will ruin it'.

It's hard to decipher some of her dialogue.

It's hard to decipher some of her dialogue.

Mess, someone once told me "you can't parse nonsense." And that's exactly what all of her chatter is--the nonsensical, illogical blather of a non-remorseful WS.

(((Mess)))

Geez mess, you WW sounds/said so much like mine, cept mine has a colder heart made of stone.

If you like, have a gander at my (long) first post, and see the similarities:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=470797

You absolutely CAN NOT love/rationalize/talk sense/anger them out of the affair... They are already gone, and treating them as such will spare you a lot of pain. Either they are 100% on board with R, or nothing, and knowing when you have had enough of the not on board is a tough call to make.

She also says I am not meeting her needs, but she said she isn't going to tell me what they are because 'that will ruin it'.

Will ruin what?

Her ability to continue to blame you for her moral bankruptcy?

Read your entire thread Shockleader. I can relate:

She absolutely will not separate issues we had that lead to a less than happy marriage, with the affair

...check

She thinks everything I say is a desperate lie to try to attempt repair of the relationship

...check (I get 'manipulating')

pick with impossible accuracy/shifting timelines

...check

felt the same as if I was with friends

...get that a lot. 'Feels like we are friends, but best friends'. I said no we aren't even friends because you told me you don't want to do anything with just me. Friends actually like to do things together.

My gut tells me she really has no desire to divorce, but guilt, shame, whatever is forcing her hand

...this is an interesting one. Just last night towards the end of our argument I said we could get D, let's start talking. Then she started crying and wanting a hug.

There are other similarities as well, the list goes on.

I think she is just not a cold to me yet because I have not threatened to tell anyone about the A. That is why I get so many 'just friends' comments. Damage control is still in effect. There are a couple of people that do know. She told them right after I confronted her about the PA 'just kissing' when she was feeling guilt, but none of the 10 or so people she has told since then have the real story. Most don't even know at about the OM at all. So I look like an incompetent sack to these people. You have been more aggressive than me. I am sure I will get to that level as well.

I am so sorry. I want to say about her saying what she has about your sex life, if she wanted something different then it was up to her to talk with you about it. This is not a reflection on you, but on her

Just wanted to say thanks to all the posters. I do feel better already which is kind of a surprise to me.

When this all started in January I felt like crap for months. Even though my WW cut me again with her words last night, the pain has subsided much quicker. Posting here today really helped that.

What I assume she means by 'it will ruin it' if she tells you what she needs is that she wants you to figure it out without having to be told. IMO a very passive-aggressive way to behave.

As others have said, NC is non-negotiable. As long as she has any contact with the OM, the affair is still on, even in her head.

NC means NC means NC. There is no way you can even attempt to R without establishing and maintaining NC and ending the affair.

And do not even offer the precious, precious gift of R until she has earned it by ending the affair, being truly remorseful, willingly transparent, and doing the heavy lifting.