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Society hasn't changed and it showed yesterday at MC. I know I said I was going to take a break, but I couldn't sleep at all last night.

I am not sure MC is actually worth doing now...

I understand some things she said, but all in all, it made me feel like I am a bad person.

I didn't propose the way she wanted, didn't do this, don't do that, I am childish, and I care about objects, and so forth more than I did her...

And during one of her IC sessions, the counselor apparently told her she was Merciful for forgiven a lot. I laughed right in her face and said the last 3 years was not merciful.

This really should be part of my other thread, but I mean it never fails. Because the HUSBAND didn't do A,B,C, she go gets O,M, and have S,E,X.

[This message edited by LostSamurai at 7:01 AM, May 21st (Wednesday)]

In the cold light of day, do you think any of what was said yesterday could be true? I know it's hard to accept responsibility, but maybe just maybe......

That, of course, does not excuse her actions. The crossing the line and cheating is All On Her. But, did she ever voice these things to you before. Did you ever address them? Facing our short comings -well, that's extremely hard to do. And when we are reeling from the pain and anguish of an affair, it's probably harder still. I know I am about 70% responsible for the problems in our marriage. It's a hard thing to face. I am sure most of friends are pretty sure I deserved this. That my WS was justified in going out and cheating on me. It's a very hard thing to accept about oneself. I was a monster.

Only you know the truth about your situation. If you want things to get better in or out of your marriage, you must first heal yourself. Is there anything that needs fixing??? I seriously doubt you were a monster.

I have anger issues, which I am going getting help for.

I did admit and apologized for somethings. The 1st proposal was not my strongest. Proposed in a parking lot. Second time, I actually asked her dad and then went to a park when it was snowing after our dinner dating anniversary and proposed at this gazebo.

Maybe I am not cut out for this marriage thing after all. At the time, I enjoyed of lot of the things I did and felt supported by her doing them by now it's like why care if the marriage is going to be ca-puts.

I will change what I can.

And sometimes it's them!! (Hugs)

if she found the proposal(s) that inadequate she didnt have to marry you. but to marry you and then grumble about the proposals years later ...

Lost Sam-

MC doesn't always feel good to the BS, because they are not going to hold your hand and tell you what a raw deal you got. And you did -- no doubt. What your wife did was horrible, terrible, and really inexcusable. It is up to you to decide if you are up to the challenge of reconciling, and it sounds like it might be a deal breaker for you.

But I am going to be honest - your posts are very victimy. You do have to, as they say, "Own your shit," if the marriage is going to work. You have to pull your weight, too. This is a bitter, bitter pill for BSes who have been so hurt. Believe me, I know.

I am not certain that monsters care and have as many feelings as you do

If you were a true monster none of this would matter to you. You would be sleeping at night. You wouldn't be apologizing for any past issues

You are not a monster

But I am going to be honest - your posts are very victimy. You do have to, as they say, "Own your shit,"

That's because I have this FOO issue where I feel inadequate about myself, and always have. I been working on it, but it is hard. I realize I made a lot of mistakes in the marriage.

It is hard to own up to your side of the marriage when in your mind, you think logically "No matter what I did, I didn't deserve to have this happen to me for so many years."

I would reconcile, if she actually wanted to, but truthfully based off what she said, I was thinking, why did you marry me then.

her answer "I loved you then."

I take responsibility. I figured a lot of times as long as I wasn't doing porn or anything like that and taking care of things we were good...

You're not a monster but chances are there is some stuff that you need to own and work on.

And as others have said it is a bitter pill to swallow. You have to try and heal from what has happened AND try to work on you all at the same time.

It's not easy but nothing worth having is. Whether its a new and improved M or a new and improved you or both. It's worth the work though.

(Hugs)

I am not sure MC is actually worth doing now...

Oh heck no!! An analogy would be if a person was in the ER bleeding to death and the doc decides to do a pedicure. Please do not subject yourself to any more of this garbage. Proposal inadequate?!? REALLY?

I went to MC a few times in the very beginning, where H told therapist and me he was NC. Then he would talk to and text OW about how it went.

No way would I recommend you go back. Save your money for anger management, and as far as future relationships, maybe watch the Oprah channel so you can learn how to propose. Good grief. That is just insane.

E.

Whether its a new and improved M or a new and improved you or both. It's worth the work though.

This right here says it all. Thanks.

I am not sure MC is actually worth doing now...

NO It's not, you know why??? Because she is a self centered brat who honestly believes the nonsense she spews. MC only helps when both parties are doing the work of R. Or are trying to D amicably. She is doing neither.

I understand some things she said, but all in all, it made me feel like I am a bad person.

Um NO - This is her manipulating you yet again. This is why the 180 is for you. The less you engage the less she is able to do this. You are good man who tried hard. HER choices to cheat had NOTHING to do with you. Remember that. They were HER CHOICES. She can blame you, but at the end of the day, no man will ever be enough because she is broken.

Wait, she had the A because she did not like your proposal??!! Hell, I never even got a proposal OR a ring and I never even thought of cheating.

You know and I know that excuse is crap. It is blameshifting at its finest.

For the other things, you know you had (have?) anger issues and you are seeking help for that. Same with porn. She may have had legitimate issues with either or both, but that does not excuse her A. And she will look foolish if she continues to harp on those issues when you are actively seeking help. Did she have any other legitimate issues? If so then examine them and try to change for YOURSELF, to make yourself a better person for you, not for her.

I do not think this MC is working for you as an MC, your IC, and her IC. That is really a big conflict of interest. You need an IC who has your back and an MC who is neutral. So this IC cannot have your back in your IC, her back in her IC, AND be neutral in MC. Humanly impossible.

I also wonder, based this and upon many of your other posts, if this is a religious counselor? While I think there is a need for advice from such professionals, they often do not get the type of training that a non-religious licensed therapist get.

LS, you are not the monster here. Your unremorseful WW paints you as a monster to justify her own terrible behavior. Unremorseful WS cast blame for everything, every little and big thing, on the BS. I am quite sure I was to blame for both the Tsunami and Katrina When you are faced with this, 2 things can happen: The WS becomes remorseful and sees how unproductive it is to blame the BS for the WS's shortcomings; Or the BS walks away and allows the unremorseful WS to look foolish declaring the BS's misdeeds while the BS is living a truthful and authentic life.

Oprah channel

Really, that woman for advice on how to propose...

IF we R, Maybe I will re-propose to her or maybe I will have her propose to her, but if I move on and find someone I will get a plan to sign it in the air or something.

My WH proposed in a service road that he pulled me into when we were walking down a street one morning. Completely spontaneous proposal. (I didn't say yes, BTW.) Of all the things I can think of to criticize my WH about, that is probably the last thing that comes to mind. Personally, I always have a sneaking suspicion that women who are fixated on "the whole package" -- the proposal, the wedding, the dress -- have an overly romanticized and unrealistic view of marriage, too. (That's a totally sweeping generalization, I know.) Does your WW perhaps think that you are supposed to make her happy? If she's unhappy, is it your fault? That's a pretty typical Wayward phenom. We all have failings. As devastated said, there are doubtless ways that we could do things better and some BSs no doubt are at fault in neglecting the marriage. It's worth thinking about that, of course. But she's never going to give you a realistic perspective on this until she gets out of her Wayward mindset and starts taking responsibility. That includes realizing that she's blame-shifting and that her perception of the marriage is skewed based on what she's done.

Did she have any other legitimate issues?

She felt like I valued martial arts over her, video games and I cared more about things such as the latest electronic device then her.

She felt like I never listened, and I didn't know her because some of the gifts I got her in the past didn't seem like they fit her.

Does your WW perhaps think that you are supposed to make her happy? If she's unhappy, is it your fault?

I would say yes and yes. If I am do something to upset her, she is unhappy.

LostSamurai, this sucks. Your wife is selfish, self centered, and immature; AND she cheated on you for your entire relationship. You cannot reconcile with this person.

You could wait it out, both get into IC to work on your individual issues, and see how things go. I would not waste another second or cent on MC. It is an exercise in futility.

Gently, I'm going to agree with bionic gal here. You seem to recognize you have a lot to work on, but are using your WS as an excuse not to do anything. Stop. Forget her. Fix you for you. For your child. For a future relationship with a healthy WS or someone else.

Stop engaging. 180. Work on you, for you. Trust me when I say you won't ever be sorry you did. It is the only win-win in this horrible situation.

I don't know your story at all, but whining about a proposal????? WTF has happened to the world? Are people really this shallow and unrealistic? Does she have any clue what real life is about? Does she believe that what she sees on TV is real life? Does she believe in fairy tales? Does she think she is Cinderella? I know I'm old as shit, and probably a fuddy duddy, but what in the world has happened to VALUES?

Personally, I always have a sneaking suspicion that women who are fixated on "the whole package" -- the proposal, the wedding, the dress -- have an overly romanticized and unrealistic view of marriage, too.

Agreed.

I am done waiting. I am being active and working on me.

I am working on anger, doing things around the house on my own. Fixing things on my own and getting things done without having to wait for someone to say something.

I am no means the idea husband. I am sure, if some of you were to marry me, you might understand her.

However, I am not saying the blame is on me. I am however saying, that a lot of the things in the marriage were probably centered around me which made things what they are now to a certain degree.

We went through a lot of issues when dating and brought a lot of resentment towards each other when we got married and just ran into a bunch of hurdles and didn't go over, under or around. Just ran into them and dragged them on and on.

The problem for me, is this latest one is a huge huge blow and I want to be able to survive it and restore my family but I don't think I have the strength to do so.