SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I've seen this topic come up here before, and I know the answer depends mostly on what I can live with, and where the other person is at in their own recovery... but here it is anyways, because I'm spinning a bit after a date tonight:

I've had a lot of dates this year, none very good, met someone about a month ago who seems great in most of the ways that are important to me, we've had a really nice connection. We hadn't talked about why our marriages broke up, mostly because I don't love talking about my situation. We had the talk tonight and yes, her marriage ended because of her own affair 2 years ago. She has done some of the "work", but not all of it (still thinks an affair was related to the hard time she was having in her life and how her husband didn't listen to her, etc.) Sure ruined my night to hear that. I have sworn I would never date a cheater for all the obvious reasons: trust, disgust and mostly because it is such a source of trauma that any reminders of it are going to be hard for me.

Everyone is going to have their baggage this second time around, and other than this, she is a way better match for me than anyone I've met. I know that you have to accept some compromises in love and marriage. Just not sure about this one.

So my question is: anyone out there date or a marry a former cheater and make it work?

I don't believe she's safe as long as she's still blameshifting.

This comes up from time to time. I'm still in the "hell no" group.

No way, Jose!

Sorry, had to say that.

Seriously, though....I just don't think I could do it. It would be one thing to say, "You know, my marriage was not happy and I felt unloved, and I coped with it in the worst way possible. Rather than working on my marriage and talking to my husband, I cheated and no matter what was wrong in our relationship, that was not the answer."

It's another to really believe her actions were justified by the nebulous, "I didn't feel loved and he didn't listen."

But that's ME. What really matters here is YOU and how you feel.

[This message edited by ADryHeat at 11:17 PM, April 3rd (Monday)]

She must be pretty

anyone out there date or a marry a former cheater and make it work?

I don't believe she's safe as long as she's still blameshifting.

I believe Tearsoflove hit the nail on the head.

Personally, I have no issue dating a former wayward who has done the hard work to address their issues. However, in this case, it appears your friend isn't completely owning her choice to cheat. Continued blameshifting is just continued wayward thinking. That's not healthy and you just can't trust somebody who does that.

In fairness, the affair was related to the difficult period she/spouse were in; however she chose to cope with that difficult time in a very unhealthy way. An exit affair is a shitty way to end a relationship but is also one of many shitty ways to end a relationship.

If you really like this woman, and want to see where things go perhaps it's worth a bit more conversation to see if she acknowledges the choices she made in ending things.

Everyone will have their own line in the sand or trait/whatever that is a hard no. But there's nothing wrong with proceeding with caution, IMO. I don't think a previous cheater is doomed to cheat again. Nor do I think someone who has never cheated is less likely to cheat. Obviously those are generic ideas not applicable to every specific scenario. As they say, YMMV.

Ugh. This has happened to me twice. Both men said how much they regretted it and it was a shitty way to end a bad marriage. Both men said that they had had therapy to address it, but in the end, both men also behaved badly in their relationship with me. I was willing to let it "slide" at first, but neither of these men were really good partner options. One guy dumped me via text for a "co-worker who he and she had confessed feelings for each other" while he was dating me (and who I noticed was back on the dating app where we first connected two months later and I blocked him so I guess his hot office romance didn't work out so well ) and the other guy text bombarded me to death and then got pissy when I wasn't responding to the gazillion texts he sent me.

I think if a guy I really liked said that he had had an affair, it was a tragic mistake that cost him his marriage, that he had done a ton of work on himself and really owned the whole thing I would consider it but so far, that hasn't happened. And in your case, I don't think this woman is a good bet. Sorry.

There are "recovered" & healthy former waywards out there. And then there are unhealthy waywards who are master manipulators. They may have done some work and used the information gained to "trick" you into believing they are recovered & healthy. Now they know all the magic words and love languages to love bomb.

My cousin had both a wife and a fiancé at the same time. Then he cheated on both with another woman. After he moved on, both wife & fiancé each found a book on how to be a great husband, with same pages bookmarked. His flowery language to both had been copied straight from the book.

Only you can evaluate her to determine if she is safe for you and what you are willing to risk.

Personally, I would rather take a chance on a former wayward who did the hard work, took full responsibility for their actions and did their best to atone for the hurt they had caused.

The question then becomes "How do you know if that is the case?"

Do they take full responsibility for their actions, or not? I sense the woman in this scenario is still not taking full responsibility, which is a huge red flag.

What have they learned from this experience? How has it affected how they approach relationships? I think discussing this would shed some interesting light on how they view things now vs. pre-affair.

What path did they take in their healing? What reading did they do? Did they do IC? What perspective has this given them?

Personally, as described by the OP, I'm thinking this one is a pass. Sure, we all make compromises in our relationships. No question. But character is not something you should compromise on. It sounds like she hasn't fully embraced what she did, the damage she inflicted and the massive amount of healing and taking responsibility she needs to do.

Next.

Cat

BiggestDumbA; That made me smile. Yes, she is pretty, and that does likely have me more willing to try than I might otherwise, but I'm almost 50, she's 47; are any of us really that going to be on the cover of Vogue? I think it is more correct to say I'm very attracted to her, which is a lot about the early connection, who she is etc.

Yes, a fair amount of blameshifting and minimizing. I wouldn't be able to keep dating her if that's where things stayed, but at least from last night's conversation, she seemed willing to face more of it than she has so far. So, I totally agree that if someone won't do the work, it's a dead end. I told her if we were going to try she is going to have look at what happened, and that she would be dating someone who is starting out with wariness and mistrust. She said she understands that, and knows that this will likely be the case with whomever she is with if she hopes to have an authentic relationship, and she hopes I am willing to try with her.

Her one point that I think is fair was something along the lines of "I was married 22 years without cheating, it is not like cheating is something I am compelled to do repeatedly." My ex had said something similar, and I did think it was valid, that after seeing all the pain she had caused me and our kids, she was probably less likely to do it again then someone who never had strayed and still had naive ideas about boundaries and communication in a marriage.

So my main question is not about whether she is a safe person (she is not, I would be dating her seeing if she could get there, and I am in a pretty healthy place with myself at the moment, and could walk away easily if it looked like she wasn't getting there). It is more: can a BS who has been through this trauma get to a place of love and comfort with a former WS, or is that just too much like dating a former guard at your prison camp, too associated with the trauma to settle in to healthy trust?

I look at someone who says the things you have said here as a dry drunk. Just because she's not actively cheating doesn't mean she has healed what is broken inside her.

Personally, I think life is too short to wait around for someone to fix themselves. Were there children involved? If so, that is another big layer of problems that she will need to iron out with them.

She really doesn't get it. Are you willing to hang around in hopes that she does?

Cat

No, never. But run, run far away, delete her number. You know what they say, once a cheater, always a cheater. That may not always hold true, but past actions are a strong indication of a person's future.

And listen to her words...She was having a rough period and her husband didn't listen to her...so she copes by jumping into bed with another man? Does that mean you have to always be perfect or this is consequence you will face? Regardless, she is still blameshifting. And who knows what the rest of the story is, I bet her ex-BH has a few gripes. Please don't even try taking her on as a project that you feel compelled to fix. After just becoming a BS and meeting a Wayward I think its all too new, I'm not even sure you are divorced yet. And don't settle after a few crappy dates. There are lots of great women out there that aren't waywards.

[This message edited by Randy1133 at 9:04 AM, April 4th (Tuesday)]

Oh wow, this thread......I don't why but it is something I have been thinking about and even verbalized in an outburst with my WH. I said to him: " so , if we don't make it and I can't live with what you have done, what will you do. Will you disclose what you have done to any potential new relationships? " .

The thing is my WH claims that he was faithful to me for 25 years, but then when he hit midlife, and we faced some major life challenges, he chose to abandon the family and look elsewhere for support, even though our marriage appeared solid. Other people reffered to us as "lovebirds". We were always holding hands, kissing, did things together, had a great sex life. None of it mattered. He, still can't explain why he did it. Says it was an awful mistake. I always yell at him that a mistake is not something you repeat over and over again with half a brain I am sorry, I have wandered off topic, but it provides some background.

The thing that this thread brings up for me, is exactly the reason I am now still with my husband. I weigh the fact that he is doing the work, that he is definitely struggling with midlife issues ( which can be like a mental breakdown for some people, especially with as many FOO issues as my WH has). That he has been and is an otherwise good man, at least he knows he has been wrong. And ultimately I would rather be with him, then take my chance with someone else. Because lets, face it, at this age, we all carry a shitload of baggage. Yes, I have been faithful, yes, I have a high moral compass, and am still so stuck and hurt. And I have so much pain in my heart because of what he has done, and I ask myself every day, if it is worth it......but this I know for sure: I WOULD NEVER DATE A KNOWN CHEATER, or take on someone who did that to someone else, and then want to "start over" with someone new. It's almost a different type of cake eating for me. Okay I did this in my past relationship, but would never do that to you??!! Yeah right I would never believe them, would right away start a new relationship being on guard and with trust issues. Why would you want that? Hey, I get it. A pretty woman, and then the hormones and other parts, besides the brain, take over at least part of the thinking process...but aren't you worth more than that?

If I do decide to leave my marriage ( I am only about 3 months out from DDay) I will never trust that way again. But I would also never go into a relationship where I know that the other person is capable of cheating and has done it with their spouse, that they have history with , that they promised to be faithful too) If that wasn't enough to deter them.....I would probably seek out another BS ....or at least someone who values truth and honesty as deeply as I do. A former cheater? They obviously do not share my beliefs. I could care less, what they look like, what color, what religion, but the core belief of truth is non negotiable.

So long story short.....Don't do it! Value yourself.Dont reward her previous behavior. Also think about what she must be thinking when a former BS accepts what she has done and still wants to date her. Don't you think that will make her believe she can get away with treating people poorly? And that you must not value yourself enough ? I also can't help thinking that if you and her are willing to work through these issues, why wouldn't you instead have worked through them with your respective spouses.....Ugh, Im sorry, I am rambling, and I really need to get stuff done....like deal with my own shit sandwich

My XWH#1 cheated prior to our marriage. I was young and dumb at the time and his wife had cheated on him too. After two marriages to him, he continued to cheat. Then I got involved with XWH#2, who was a love bomber from the word go. He swore he never cheated on his 1st wife and I knew she had cheated on him, so I believed him. When I found out about his LTA I knew then he was too good at it not to have done it before.

I made sure my SO was not a cheater from any of his prior marriages and I wouldn't go near a cheater with a ten foot pole. I spent my whole adult life with cheaters and liars and I refuse to spend another minute with one. Life is too short to go through that again.

I know there are WS's out there that have done the work to make themselves a safe partner, but they are far and few between it seems. If this girl used her situation with her marriage to cheat and hasn't did the work to fix herself then you are playing with fire. She is still blame shifting and not owning her shit. WS's can be very charming, that's how they find their AP and keep their BS hanging onto hope.

It of course is your decision to make, but just think about the ramifications if you do get involved with her. Personally I don't have time to wait around on someone to fix themselves and I don't want to get into a relationship where there is a trust issue already. She should not be putting herself into a relationship if she hasn't already did the work to make herself a safe partner. JMO

Lucidity, my WW told me the same thing. She was "good" for 25 years. Except she wasn't. That overlooks the 4 times she cheated on me before we married. The full truth came out in the DDays. That overlooks the 20+ guys she cheated with on her boyfriend previous to me. That came out during the DDays but aren't DDays in and of themselves as they really didn't have anything to do with me except some of those guys showed up in some ways during the first 25 years of marriage.

Jose, the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. That is why background checks and character references are done by employers. In some cases polys are used by future employers. That may not be fair to those who have cleaned up their act but there's enough reason (IMO) to use them because of too high a risk of recidivism on all kinds of character issues.

Just my thoughts.

but at least from last night's conversation, she seemed willing to face more of it than she has so far.

Wait, what??? You mean to say that she cheated on her Ex and it resulted in her marriage ending but it wasn't until you expressed the pain of infidelity that the penny dropped for her?? Does that even make any sense to you?? Does she have kids that suffered as the result of her marriage ending?

This is way too much of a DIY project for you to be taking on and I have to wonder if you are trying to get some resolution to your own marriage ending from this relationship.

I don't always think that people's past behaviour is always a predictor of future behaviour. I think people can learn and grow from their pain and mistakes. I really do. But...it doesn't sound like she has.

I've had a lot of dates this year, none very good

I would also be careful that you are just not so glad to finally have meet someone who you actually like (after a string of "heck no" dates), that you are willingly to accept things you normally would not.

I know after doing a bunch of OLD that I would try to self-justify some things to myself that should of been instant 'nexts' because I knew what sort of people I meet on previous dates.

Also think about what she must be thinking when a former BS accepts what she has done and still wants to date her. Don't you think that will make her believe she can get away with treating people poorly? And that you must not value yourself enough ?

I dated a BS after my H divorced me. I didn't think either of those ^ things. I also didn't feel "rewarded" for my past behavior.

[This message edited by Darkness Falls at 10:05 AM, April 4th (Tuesday)]

This thread pisses me off.

When my wxh had his first affair, my parents talked me into attempting to reconcile because:

I had 24 years of history with him and those years were decent. "At least you know what you have."

He hadn't really done the work on himself and resumed the A 2 years later (if it ever really ended).

I feel that it's like alcoholism. They are always a cheater, just maybe not currently active - unless they have made serious changes and done the hard work.

eta: And another thing.... How do we know that this was the only A of the wayward? Because they've proven their honesty? No. The wayward needs to understand that their credibility is zero and that they need to completely prove themselves....

[This message edited by Williesmom at 11:50 AM, April 4th (Tuesday)]