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Please, can someone help me understand the concept of "wayward thinking". If my limited knowledge is anything, from what I have read and researched it is the concept that a WS continues to try and lie, hide, and make excuses for their behavior? Yes?

I know that I made a series of choices that brought me to where I am now, and caused the state of my marriage to be what it is. Those choices were mine - BUT here is where I start to get confused - When someone asks "why" My thought is because he didn't care. Because I truly felt as if the only things in like that were important to him were his Xbox and the people on it. As long as there was someone in the house to clean up, cook, pay the bills, and make sure he got laid he couldn't give a rats ass about anything else. I felt like every time I opened my mouth I was wrong, and there were fights.

I reacted to this badly I know - I took my pain and hurt and anger and bottled it up, shoved it away and chose to find someone to talk to that didn't yell at me. I feel that is truly what started everything. But the more I read here, the more posts I watch, I feel seeing that thinking like that is not allowed. That I am not supposed to say that he had any roll and that confuses me.

I know that I made choices on my own. I know that I should have gone to my husband and talked to him about my feelings instead of being afraid of him and his reaction to what I said. I am not trying to excuse by behavior, (I don't think) but I am saying that when he says "why" I should be able to say honestly what I think.

Unless again I am just seeing things all wrong. Please help me understand -

The 'why' you need to get to is why you responded that way. He was neglectful. The marriage was bad. But you had other options. You could have gone to counseling, divorced, had endless fights, taken up drinking, whatever. So WHY did you choose to cheat? Until you know that, you won't know if you'll do it again if things get rocky.

I *know* that I will never make these mistakes again. For as long as I live I will never forget the look of hurt in his eyes, and the sound of his voice as he was asking me to explain why I did what I did. I will NEVER do that to another living soul again. I would rather die that be the cause of that kind of pain.

You should absolutely be able to say what you think. The issue is what you are thinking is very wayward.

When someone asks "why" My thought is because he didn't care. Because I truly felt as if the only things in like that were important to him were his Xbox and the people on it. As long as there was someone in the house to clean up, cook, pay the bills, and make sure he got laid he couldn't give a rats ass about anything else. I felt like every time I opened my mouth I was wrong, and there were fights.

You are still holding him accountable for your choice to cheat. Him caring or not caring has no bearing. You had other choices - you just chose the one that was the most comfortable for you.

Listen, I get it. Believe me, I do. My H has been emotionally unavailable and addicted to online interactions for the entirety of our 17 year relationship. He ignored me, dismissed me, put me last, if at all, and treated me like a maid he got to fuck when he wanted. I accepted this and cheated on him in return. I could have left. I didn't. I cheated on him instead. That's not on him at all. That is on me.

He ignored me, dismissed me, put me last, if at all, and treated me like a maid he got to fuck when he wanted.

And you don't feel this had any bearing on why you did what you did? Yes you had other options, you chose cheating, that is on you, but do his actions and neglect not have some factor?

I'm sure you thought that before - that you'd never cheat. When my H said that to me "I will never hurt you like this again - I couldn't!" It alarmed me!!! I replied:

"No! Don't say that! I need you to acknowledge that you are capable of this depth of pain and betrayal! If you say you would never do this again, you won't be actively protecting our marriage. You fall down that same slippery slope."

Few waywards wake up and say "Today I will betray my partner." It's incremental - It's not choosing consciously to protect the marriage. Instead say "I am quite capable of doing this harm. I have FOO and poor coping mechanisms and the weakened integrity to betray. So I need to be extra careful of my thinking and my actions so I can recognize a wayward path before I go down it."

Regarding the wayward thinking - your H not caring did not cause you to cheat. It probably contributed to an unhappy marriage...and you're allowed state your marriage was an unfulfilling one - mine was too.

But to peel the onion..."I had an unhappy marriage - but why, instead of divorcing/separating/attending counselling - did I choose to cheat?" The obvious answer - I was selfish - but then you need to ask "Why was I selfish?" Keep asking the whys - it usually leads back to FOO issues...

My WH isn't addicted to vidoe games, but he is a workaholic and puts everyone else above me. He ignored my wants and needs. I took care of everything so he wouldn't have to since he did wirk so much. I felt unappreciated, unvalued, unloved and also felt like I was someone there to take care of him and have sex. Cheating never entered my mind. Leaving did. He's the one that cheated. He says because he didn't feel validated by me and felt unloved. Like you, he accepts it was his choice to cheat. Like you, his reasoning is MY fault. If I had just done this, or that, he wouldn't have cheated. That is horse shit. He vilified me to make it ok, but the reason he cheated is because he liked the attention and the euphoric feelings that come with a new relationship. Your M may not have been what you wanted, but you had other choices. My WH didn't want to lose what he had, he just felt like he deserved more than I was giving. He also felt cheating was easier than actually working on the M. I did try to talk to him before he had his A's, he had already made up his mind and pushed me further away. In his mind our issues were too severe, so he gave up. I don't know if that describes you or not.

He has since changed his mind and wants to work on us. Time will tell....

[This message edited by doigoordoistay at 11:23 AM, June 28th (Wednesday)]

it usually leads back to FOO issues...

Is this not just another excuse? The 1 MC counseling session we went to my husband brought up the abuse I went through as a child, and in my first marriage. And of course the MC grabbed onto that like a pit-bull and wanted to wave it around as the answer to why this happened.

To me that is just another excuse. Lots of people have shitty childhoods. Lots of people have it a lot worse than I did and they don't fuck around on their spouse - so When we talk about passing blame or not "owning" it I see saying its because Uncle and Daddy touched me when I was a kid, and 1stH beat the shit out of me and passed me around for sexual favors to his buddies as another way to pass the buck and make an excuse.

And you don't feel this had any bearing on why you did what you did? Yes you had other options, you chose cheating, that is on you, but do his actions and neglect not have some factor?

initially I did. His actions impacted the state of our relationship. How I chose to react to that was up to me.

In my mind, that's like an abusive husband blaming his wife when he beats her. "She was a shitty wife; she hated sex and didn't care about me so my reaction to that is to beat the hell out of her."

Is this not just another excuse? The 1 MC counseling session we went to my husband brought up the abuse I went through as a child, and in my first marriage. And of course the MC grabbed onto that like a pit-bull and wanted to wave it around as the answer to why this happened.

To me that is just another excuse. Lots of people have shitty childhoods. Lots of people have it a lot worse than I did and they don't fuck around on their spouse - so When we talk about passing blame or not "owning" it I see saying its because Uncle and Daddy touched me when I was a kid, and 1stH beat the shit out of me and passed me around for sexual favors to his buddies as another way to pass the buck and make an excuse.

it's far from an excuse. How in the hell do you change your behavior if you have no idea why you behave that way in the first place? FOO is very real and the impacts are real. Do not dismiss what you don't understand. That's an insult to the thousands of us who have done the work you have yet to do.

Everything MJ said.

I just re-read by last post, and it sounded a bit harsh - I wanted to say I'm sorry. I don't know how to make it sound less that way, but I certainly don't mean to have an aggressive tone.

doigoordoistay - Thank you for sharing. Parts of what you said kind of sound like me. I didn't approach my husband because I didn't want the conflict that would arise from it. I didn't chose separation/divorce because I truly love my husband and didn't want to leave. I was self-ish and afraid and acted like a small spoiled child.

That's an insult to the thousands of us who have done the work you have yet to do.

I'm sorry - I do not mean to sound insulting or dismissive.

I was self-ish and afraid and acted like a small spoiled child.

and that's where you start. Why did you act like this? why this level of selfishness? Why? Start peeling back the layers and do an honest self-assessment.

You are still holding him accountable for your choice to cheat. Him caring or not caring has no bearing. You had other choices - you just chose the one that was the most comfortable for you.

^^ and this vv

Regarding the wayward thinking - your H not caring did not cause you to cheat. It probably contributed to an unhappy marriage...and you're allowed state your marriage was an unfulfilling one - mine was too.

The question should be what made you seek external validation? Yes, his behavior led to a poor marriage, but why did you need to seek attention and validation outside of the marriage? Why weren't YOU enough? Why couldn't you talk to him, seek IC, or even leave? Why did you need that external validation?

In my experience, the answer usually lies in the self-esteem of the WS.

Deep sense of shame probably rooted in FOO issues + trauma of some sort (choose your poison--job loss, financial ruin, death of a family member or close friend, bad marriage, etc.) = recipe for disaster.

The shame + the incident leads to the rationalization of the behavior. This is wayward thinking.

Your abusive childhood can have bearing on how you choose to cope with things. Such as, instead of talking to your husband about what was happening in your marriage, you bottled it up and went and found someone else. You dealt with it passive aggressively instead of head on. That behavior is learned.

Instead of divorcing him because you felt you deserved better, you cheated. That behavior is learned. This is why we look to our past when dealing with why we cheated, we figure out why we deal with things the way we do so that we can change them. We do not use them as an excuse, we change our behavior so that we do not ever act that way again when we become stressed.

You cannot say that you will never cheat again right now, you have not been put back into a high stress situation again. You have not truly changed your coping skills to manage that stress.

Why did you act like this? why this level of selfishness? Why?

I don't know -

do the work and you will have an answer. HINT: it's related to FOO. None of this easy but you are worth it.

Please don't tell your BH, IDK. Keep digging. When you answer the first why, ask again.

Hey there All,

In response to your original question about the nature of wayward thinking, it took me a while to get it. This helped:

The way your husband treated you, the state of your marriage and your deep unhappiness in response to that, those are the reasons you felt tempted to cheat.

Whatever thinking gave you the green light to go through with it, that is the wayward thinking. Cheating, at its heart, is about deciding it's okay to get our needs met at someone else's expense. It's about deciding that a feeling is more important than our integrity.

“Integrity is choosing courage over comfort; choosing what is right over what is fun, fast, or easy; and choosing to practice our values rather than simply professing them.” ― Brené Brown, Rising Strong.

What you are going through is common at the start of the healing path. Keep digging, my sister. You can do this. You will get much support here.

Proceed with conviction and valor.