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Wayward Side :
Never Ever Going to Get It (Reset)

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 islesguy (original poster member #38090) posted at 5:24 PM on Friday, January 26th, 2018

I am starting a new post because the last one went very unfairly in the wrong direction.

My wife has been though years of hell with me. Through the lies, manipulation, never ending story changes, years of trickle truth, personal insults about her appearance, blame shifting my failures to her and false promises she has been mentally abused by me terribly.

I am not looking for the good job islesguy comments about anything I have posted on this site, in fact I hate to see them because they are not deserved, anything I have done for myself has been something I should have been doing on my own years ago wile at the same time trying to help my wife process the truth of her life. I don't want any undeserved sympathy, I just want help in helping her and if it is your opinion that she is using this as a control thing like someone mentioned which I completely disagree with or she needs to be doing more to help the situation, I can only tell you that you don't know what it has been like to live with me for all of these years. She has given me every opportunity to prove myself to her and I have failed again and again. I have done NOTHING to help her NOTHING because I was lazy, because I left her to deal with it all on her own, because I didn't want to deal with my failures, because I cared more about avoiding than helping her at all and yet she kept trying up until recently when she is not at her wits end. She has helped me tremendously over the years while I made her life hell by continuing to lie to her. I lied to her for over 20 years. I made promises to her again and again that I would step up and do things right only to become complacent again and continue the 20+ year mind fuck. I didn't show her any empathy, I let her wither away ignoring the situation and rug sweeping whenever possible while she suffers through endless mind movies, and I provided her with no help. I made her do all of the work in understanding her life, she had to reach out to people to find out things about me, she had to question me again and again, I was forthcoming with nothing unless I was cornered and had no choice.

I am desperate for help but not interested in any undeserved blame shifting, if you were the one who has lived with me for all of these years you would be able to understand why she wants nothing to do with me. It is for her own self protection and sanity to stay away from me. This also isn't something that happened overnight. My lack of responsibility for myself and my lack of care to help her when I could have with the truth for so many years is what pushed her away from me and why we are not equals. She never ever felt that way before my cheating was known and before I abused her for all of these years.

[This message edited by islesguy at 11:25 AM, January 26th (Friday)]

Me: WH
My BS has given me every opportunity to prove myself to her and I have failed again and again. I lied to her for well over 20 years and did nothing to help her. I made promises to her again and again that I would step up and still have not.

posts: 1748   ·   registered: Jan. 11th, 2013
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 islesguy (original poster member #38090) posted at 5:42 PM on Friday, January 26th, 2018

I should also point out the the only reason I was ever in IC, on this site, or reading anything in the first place was because she held my ass to the fire.

Me: WH
My BS has given me every opportunity to prove myself to her and I have failed again and again. I lied to her for well over 20 years and did nothing to help her. I made promises to her again and again that I would step up and still have not.

posts: 1748   ·   registered: Jan. 11th, 2013
id 8079764
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smokenfire ( member #5217) posted at 6:26 PM on Friday, January 26th, 2018

That being said she has made it very clear that I am not good enough for her and that is we didn't have kids together she would have no interest in ever being around me again. I have been reading about shame and realize just how much shame I have.

I am shameful every time she calls me out on something in front of the kids

I am shameful because I know my opinions don't mean anything

I am shameful just about every moment of every day

Bringing up FOO issues is so hard for me because it makes me feel like I am portraying a lack of responsibility for myself.

I have done NOTHING to help her NOTHING because I was lazy, because I left her to deal with it all on her own, because I didn't want to deal with my failures, because I cared more about avoiding than helping her at all and yet she kept trying up until recently when she is not at her wits end.

I should also point out the the only reason I was ever in IC, on this site, or reading anything in the first place was because she held my ass to the fire.

All of the above are YOUR words. Yours alone.

She is not responsible for IC. If you didn’t want to go, or thought you needed to go you would not be there (and you’ve mentioned more then one therapist in another post, so clearly you’ve gone before).

You run yourself into the ground frequently. Perhaps not every post but…

This is your reality.

This is what/how you post.

Maybe it’s not her, but I suspect your estranged mother has much to do with it.

This is the response to your posting. I would suspect your wife feels familiar to you and because you have not worked through your issues with your mom, they persist.

Love is what feels familiar to us. Even if you are raised by wolves. That’s what love feels like. I’m not making a commentary on your wife, but rather your reaction to her. Subconsciously, you know if you push her buttons (and which ones to push) she will treat you in such and such a way, because that’s what love feels like to you.

This has EVERYTHING to do with you and very little to do with her actually.

Dig into this.

Don't food shop when hungry, or date when you're lonely
How others treat you IS a reflection of your SELF worth, but not your actual WORTH.

posts: 9253   ·   registered: Aug. 26th, 2004   ·   location: Central Texas
id 8079807
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 islesguy (original poster member #38090) posted at 7:31 PM on Friday, January 26th, 2018

smokenfire,

I am shameful every time she calls me out on something in front of the kids

Because I know I have failed as a father and set a terrible example for them of what a husband and family should be.

I am shameful because I know my opinions don't mean anything

I hate that I have put myself in a position where nothing that I say or any feeling I have matters and I am embarrassed by this.

I am shameful just about every moment of every day

Bringing up FOO issues is so hard for me because it makes me feel like I am portraying a lack of responsibility for myself.

FOO always seems like a cop out to me, when in doubt blame the mom. Yet, I know that I have issues that go back to childhood

I have been to a dozen therapists over 6 years and nothing ever changes and I know I am responsible for this. There is no way I could have chosen 12 bad therapists. No, it was me hiding and not being vulnerable with them.

This has EVERYTHING to do with you and very little to do with her actually.

I agree with you but what are you suggesting I did into, my relationship with my mother?

Me: WH
My BS has given me every opportunity to prove myself to her and I have failed again and again. I lied to her for well over 20 years and did nothing to help her. I made promises to her again and again that I would step up and still have not.

posts: 1748   ·   registered: Jan. 11th, 2013
id 8079872
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truthsetmefree ( member #7168) posted at 7:40 PM on Friday, January 26th, 2018

I am going to go waaaayyy out on a limb here, islesguy...and it is only because I can truly feel the desperation in your post.

As a LT BW with lots of years of deception and distrust notched on my heart, your posts remind me so much of how I would feel in trying to communicate and truly reconcile with my WH. There are two reasons I don't respond on your posts - though I frequently read them: 1) It's way too personal to my own situation...too much peanut butter in my chocolate thing. 2) The sense that I get from your posts is too hard to truly explain - in a way that feels fair to you after having put it out there.

So I'm going to go against those two things and give you what I can offer - for what it's worth and with the trust in your ability to use or leave it.

You seem to do all the right things...almost like a checklist - the title of which could be "How to Be a Better Person/Husband".

But there seems to be a lack of real connectedness with the feeling aspect of WHY you want to do those things. Maybe that it has more to do with how you are perceived (by others, by yourself) than it does the true FEELING of wanting to contribute to someone because you genuinely love them so very much?

If I were to speculate, I would suggest that the disconnect from feelings begins within yourself...and maybe that you compensate for that by actions/efforting. It all "looks good on paper"...but there's something that's missing in the energy of the efforts, something askew in the actual feeling aspect of it (so it can read as insincerity). You can't relate to this because you truly are wanting to get it...but a disconnect from your own feelings isn't allowing you to open certain doors of availability/vulnerability/sincerity.

Hope has two beautiful daughters; their names are Anger and Courage. Anger at the way things are, and Courage to see that they do not remain as they are. ~ Augustine of Hippo

Funny thing, I quit being broken when I quit letting people break me.

posts: 8994   ·   registered: May. 18th, 2005
id 8079884
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Thisfknsux ( member #60054) posted at 7:44 PM on Friday, January 26th, 2018

I think you have to decide to change or decide to stay the same. No more excuses! No more looking back.... Decide to move forward and be a better person. Decide every day to be the person you want to be. I've seen it said on here.... Imagine you and your wife are divorcing and as a last gift to her you are finding her the ideal mate. What traits would he have? How would he treat her? Now become that person!

Good luck! Do it for you and your children and maybe she'll come around and benefit from it as well. But even if she doesn't you changed for yourself and for your kids.

"It's the end of the world as we know it, and I'll be fine..."

posts: 342   ·   registered: Aug. 8th, 2017
id 8079885
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truthsetmefree ( member #7168) posted at 7:54 PM on Friday, January 26th, 2018

FOO always seems like a cop out to me, when in doubt blame the mom.

This statement is incredibly enlightening. I didn't see this post at the time of my prior post.

And no...exploring FOO issues is not about "blame the mom"....it's about nurture the child. In reference to my post above, it's the child that's locked behind those doors...the part of your feelings that have been cut off.

Hope has two beautiful daughters; their names are Anger and Courage. Anger at the way things are, and Courage to see that they do not remain as they are. ~ Augustine of Hippo

Funny thing, I quit being broken when I quit letting people break me.

posts: 8994   ·   registered: May. 18th, 2005
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smokenfire ( member #5217) posted at 7:55 PM on Friday, January 26th, 2018

Yes, dig into your relationship with your mom, because you are reliving it.

I would bet money when you were a teen you did terrible things your mother would be horrified to know you did (make out with girls, drink etc.) it was both a rush and a pay back to get back at her for causing you pain. You never had the tools to tell her what you needed, nor did she have the tools to listen to you or parent you.

You've dragged this baggage into your marriage.

Every incident you described is VERY likely related to a slight you felt from your current BW. I'll show you.....

It's not a cop out, it's unlearning all the unhealthy shit you were taught.

Don't food shop when hungry, or date when you're lonely
How others treat you IS a reflection of your SELF worth, but not your actual WORTH.

posts: 9253   ·   registered: Aug. 26th, 2004   ·   location: Central Texas
id 8079897
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smokenfire ( member #5217) posted at 8:08 PM on Friday, January 26th, 2018

Denial Patterns

Codependents often. . . :

• have difficulty identifying what they are feeling.

• minimize, alter, or deny how they truly feel.

• perceive themselves as completely unselfish and dedicated to the well-being of others.

• lack empathy for the feelings and needs of others.

• label others with their negative traits.

• think they can take care of themselves without any help from others.

• mask pain in various ways such as anger, humor, or isolation.

• express negativity or aggression in indirect and passive ways.

• do not recognize the unavailability of those people to whom they are attracted.

Low Self-esteem Patterns

Codependents often. . . :

• have difficulty making decisions.

• judge what they think, say, or do harshly, as never good enough.

• are embarrassed to receive recognition, praise, or gifts.

• value others’ approval of their thinking, feelings, and behavior over their own.

• do not perceive themselves as lovable or worthwhile persons.

• seek recognition and praise to overcome feeling less than.

• have difficulty admitting a mistake.

• need to appear to be right in the eyes of others and may even lie to look good.

• are unable to identify or ask for what they need and want.

• perceive themselves as superior to others.

• look to others to provide their sense of safety.

• have difficulty getting started, meeting deadlines, and completing projects.

• have trouble setting healthy priorities and boundaries.

Compliance Patterns

Codependents often. . . :

• are extremely loyal, remaining in harmful situations too long.

• compromise their own values and integrity to avoid rejection or anger.

• put aside their own interests in order to do what others want.

• are hypervigilant regarding the feelings of others and take on those feelings.

• are afraid to express their beliefs, opinions, and feelings when they differ from those of others.

• accept sexual attention when they want love.

• make decisions without regard to the consequences.

• give up their truth to gain the approval of others or to avoid change.

Control Patterns

Codependents often. . . :

• believe people are incapable of taking care of themselves.

• attempt to convince others what to think, do, or feel.

• freely offer advice and direction without being asked.

• become resentful when others decline their help or reject their advice.

• lavish gifts and favors on those they want to influence.

• use sexual attention to gain approval and acceptance.

• have to feel needed in order to have a relationship with others.

• demand that their needs be met by others.

• use charm and charisma to convince others of their capacity to be caring and compassionate.

• use blame and shame to exploit others emotionally.

• refuse to cooperate, compromise, or negotiate.

• adopt an attitude of indifference, helplessness, authority, or rage to manipulate outcomes.

• use recovery jargon in an attempt to control the behavior of others.

• pretend to agree with others to get what they want.

Avoidance Patterns

Codependents often. . . :

• act in ways that invite others to reject, shame, or express anger toward them.

• judge harshly what others think, say, or do.

• avoid emotional, physical, or sexual intimacy as a way to maintain distance.

• allow addictions to people, places, and things to distract them from achieving intimacy in relationships.

• use indirect or evasive communication to avoid conflict or confrontation.

• diminish their capacity to have healthy relationships by declining to use the tools of recovery.

• suppress their feelings or needs to avoid feeling vulnerable.

• pull people toward them, but when others get close, push them away.

• refuse to give up their self-will to avoid surrendering to a power greater than themselves.

• believe displays of emotion are a sign of weakness.

• withhold expressions of appreciation.

Don't food shop when hungry, or date when you're lonely
How others treat you IS a reflection of your SELF worth, but not your actual WORTH.

posts: 9253   ·   registered: Aug. 26th, 2004   ·   location: Central Texas
id 8079911
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 islesguy (original poster member #38090) posted at 8:14 PM on Friday, January 26th, 2018

truthsetmefree,

You seem to do all the right things...almost like a checklist - the title of which could be "How to Be a Better Person/Husband".

I certainly disagree that I do all the right things, but I would love a checklist of the right things, this is where I am so lost.

If I were to speculate, I would suggest that the disconnect from feelings begins within yourself...and maybe that you compensate for that by actions/efforting. It all "looks good on paper"...but there's something that's missing in the energy of the efforts, something askew in the actual feeling aspect of it (so it can read as insincerity). You can't relate to this because you truly are wanting to get it...but a disconnect from your own feelings isn't allowing you to open certain doors of availability/vulnerability/sincerity.

I am not sure I completely understand what you are saying here, maybe you ca clarif? But, growing up with the outward appearances of the family being all that mattered the looks good on paper certainly rings true to me and I know I have treated things like a checklist. For example, even though it was a lot of work, I felt much more comfortable in December when I was making an ornament for my wife each day. It gave me something to focus on that I understood and now reading what you wrote I can see that this had a lot to do with it being something that wasn't being vulnerable or discussing feelings.

Me: WH
My BS has given me every opportunity to prove myself to her and I have failed again and again. I lied to her for well over 20 years and did nothing to help her. I made promises to her again and again that I would step up and still have not.

posts: 1748   ·   registered: Jan. 11th, 2013
id 8079917
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 islesguy (original poster member #38090) posted at 8:15 PM on Friday, January 26th, 2018

smokenfire,

I did all of those things and hid them all from my mother so that she would still believe I was her honest son. It was all so fake and I did the same with my BS, the only difference is that she found out, my mother never did.

Me: WH
My BS has given me every opportunity to prove myself to her and I have failed again and again. I lied to her for well over 20 years and did nothing to help her. I made promises to her again and again that I would step up and still have not.

posts: 1748   ·   registered: Jan. 11th, 2013
id 8079920
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truthsetmefree ( member #7168) posted at 8:33 PM on Friday, January 26th, 2018

I certainly disagree that I do all the right things, but I would love a checklist of the right things, this is where I am so lost.

Again...incredibly Freudian statement.

We're fallible. The checklist never ends. In fact, with each "failure" three more things are added to the checklist to ensure the failure doesn't happen again. Plus we get the familiar fledging (now carried out by the self) when we find ourselves circling back to the same "failures". Oh so familiar. We were set up to fail - and to disconnect from our whole inner self - when our lives became all about the appearances.

A lot of big work here, IG. But even when you start to make the intellectual connections (Hey...I did that with my mother and now I did it with my wife)...you still have to go back and find and nurture the child that was just trying to survive with his limited understanding and resources. This is the feeling part. And this is who is driving the choices and responses that you don't understand today. You can't think your way through this...and 12 counselors cannot do the FEELING part for you. You can white-knuckle your way through the checklist and that will work for many of your surface level relationships. But when it comes to intimacy, this is were the void or missing link will be experienced. You're disconnected from it so you won't necessarily experience it...but your partner knows there's an absence. And nothing you DO seems like it is good enough in light of that.

Hope has two beautiful daughters; their names are Anger and Courage. Anger at the way things are, and Courage to see that they do not remain as they are. ~ Augustine of Hippo

Funny thing, I quit being broken when I quit letting people break me.

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 islesguy (original poster member #38090) posted at 8:44 PM on Friday, January 26th, 2018

truthsetmefree,

Thank you for your reply, there is a lot in your response to digest.

Me: WH
My BS has given me every opportunity to prove myself to her and I have failed again and again. I lied to her for well over 20 years and did nothing to help her. I made promises to her again and again that I would step up and still have not.

posts: 1748   ·   registered: Jan. 11th, 2013
id 8079936
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truthsetmefree ( member #7168) posted at 8:57 PM on Friday, January 26th, 2018

You're not lost, IG.

This IS the path....the path is this. Learn to trust this much and that trust will then light your next steps.

Thank you for the interaction.

Hope has two beautiful daughters; their names are Anger and Courage. Anger at the way things are, and Courage to see that they do not remain as they are. ~ Augustine of Hippo

Funny thing, I quit being broken when I quit letting people break me.

posts: 8994   ·   registered: May. 18th, 2005
id 8079944
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DaddyDom ( member #56960) posted at 9:24 PM on Friday, January 26th, 2018

Islesguy

First, a very manly hug for you... you seem to need one, or a hundred.

I hope you don't mind a few observations and questions?

The first thing I'll tell you, in reading this exact post and others that you've posted, is that you are still very, very down on yourself. And believe me, I get that! You HAVE been doing the work, the hard work, and part of that process involves seeing "the real you" which is the point I believe you are at now.

I have to tell you, it is almost impossible to look back on the things we did as WS's, and even just as broken people in general, and not go into an endless shame spiral. I mean, how the hell does a person look back on 20 years of not being honest, not being faithful, and not really being a loving and supporting partner, and then be expected to "love themselves" and forgive themselves? How exactly does one say to themselves, "I'm a person worthy of love" when everything you know about yourself seems to run contradictory to that?

You also now have the added consequence of having to live with the damage you caused, in the most literal sense. Your wife, your kids, even yourself, everyone that got hurt because of the things you did or failed to do, are still part of your daily life. You are the fox living in the hen house. They don't trust you, and you don't blame them for not trusting you. It is what it is however, and so you all serve as constant triggers and reminders to each other of what happened and how much it all hurts. So what to do?

I hit a very similar place for a long while. The more it started to sink in what I had done... not just the affair itself, but also the larger picture... the way that I had not been there for my wife the way she needed me to for the past 20 years, my addiction problems, my inconsistent work history, my lack of authority as a parent, my spending habits, on and on and on... the more I hated myself. Sometimes it felt as if I hated myself more than my wife and kids tied together. I still feel that way sometimes. Truth is, who I was, what I did and how I lived my life was NOT OKAY and innocent people that I loved got hurt because of it. And there's not a damn thing I can do about it. Nothing I do or say will ever take away or fix who I've been and what I've done. I know that to be a truth, and it is a truth which I hate to the core. But it's still truth.

So then... what? What to do? Should I stick my head in the toilet and keep flushing until I drown? That's certainly an option. But if you are anything like me, then the sad truth starts to pop up, and realize that even that would still be me just avoiding dealing with pain, and failing my wife and kids yet again. And I am DONE hurting people. Seriously, I am just so damn done with that. So no... punishing myself for being a POS actually does nothing whatsoever positive and does not help my wife and kids heal in the smallest.

What I eventually came to realize is that everything begins and ends with me because I am the only person in this world who I have total control over. And I know what a contradiction that sounds like, especially when we come to SI every day and hear BS's saying over and over again that WS's are just so stuck on "me me me" all the time. And that's true. But it's not really the "me me me" that is the issue, it is the focus on yourself as a victim, as a loser, as someone entitled, as someone broken. It is all the blame shifting and TT and lying to cover our own asses and control the outcomes. That's the "me me me" that is unhealthy and broken.

There is another "me me me" however, and that's the "me" that is authentic, that is genuine, the "me" that knows who I am, who likes or even loves who I am, the "me" that is an honest and decent human being and that deserves respect and love even from myself. It is hard to put into words, but when you come to a head space where you see yourself as someone worthy, someone who has dignity, self-respect, compassion, empathy, drive, responsibility, confidence... the kind of "me" that isn't selfish and shameful and stuck in guilt, but the "me" that knows who he is and won't ever again compromise his self worth or the love he has for the people in his life... that "me" is someone you need to hold onto. And it is the "me" that other people can respect and trust.

We often say that if we can't love ourselves, then we can't possibly love others, because you can't give what you don't have. In that same way, others cannot love, trust or respect you unless you love, trust and respect yourself. We cannot accept that which we cannot know. Truth.

The truth, in my opinion only, this is how I see it from my side of the internet... the truth is that you still aren't there yet. Of all the people that need to forgive you for all the bad choices and selfish actions and missed opportunities, YOU are the person that you need to forgive first. You must forgive yourself for being who you were, what you did, how you did it, and so on. You have to learn to love yourself DESPITE the fact that you fucked up, hurt others, and let yourself down.

Islesguy, let's face it. While it doesn't excuse anything you've done, it is still okay to accept your fate as a victim as well. You didn't come out of your mother's womb as a cheater or a liar. Unless you were dropped on your head as a kid and got brain damage (and even then) most of us come into this world as innocent, blank slates. It is up to our parents, our schools, our communities, our villages, our world... to help us build a sense of self that we can respect and trust. We learn from the lessons life hands us. People have this mistaken concept that if they weren't somehow abused and neglected as kids, then that means they didn't suffer any sort of trauma or negative messages. That's bullshit. No one escapes trauma in their life, and trauma is often masked as love. The kid who gets straight A's and one A- sees the disappointment in his parent's eyes over the one lower grade, and learns that he is not good enough no matter how hard he tries. The girl who can't wear what the other girls are wearing because her boobs came in before everyone else, learns that her own body is somehow defective and that she in unacceptable simply for being who she is. It's fucking tragic, and it is amazing that anyone grows up without a sense of self that isn't permanently curled up in a fetal position!

YOU, my friend, ARE a good person, a person worthy of love, a person worthy of respect, a person worthy of happiness. I promise you that all I say here is true. You are worthy of forgiveness, and you must be the first person to step up and offer yourself that forgiveness. Yes, you did terrible, shitty, hurtful things, things that cannot be taken back or made better, things that hurt other people, and that will never change. That will always be part of your story. But I suggest to you that you embrace that part of your story. Cling to it, know it, feel it, regret it, but do NOT let it DEFINE YOU as someone unworthy of love. Instead, let it be your engine and your compass in order to define who you are now, today, and every day moving forward.

I know that may sound like some feel-good, tree-huggy, spiritual "Kumbaya" mumbo-jumbo, but I swear it is not. That is why it is so very important to figure out those "why's", because you need to go back and figure out where the damage started, and in doing so, figure out when you went from that sweet, innocent, blank slate of a kid who I'm sure wanted to grow up to be a wonderful person, to the damaged person you became instead. When you do that, well, let's just say that light-bulbs and switches start going off.

"Really Mom & Dad? You mean I got straight A's and all you could focus on was the A-? Are you kidding me? I've spent the last 40 years feeling like I'm not good enough, when in fact, I was pretty awesome, and for what? Because doing my best didn't meet up to your impossible standards?"

Right now, you are still living as a shell. You are still basing your own sense of worth (or lack thereof) on your wife's valuation of you. If she were to turn around today and say, "Oh Islesguy, you've worked so hard and I love you so much and I can't wait to spend the rest of my life with you" then you'd be happy and feel good about who you are, because she's giving you that sense of love and value that you lack within yourself. But she's not. She's angry and distrustful and hurt (as she should be), however since you have no sense of self-love, you instead accept yourself as someone unworthy because that is how she defines you. She can't love you, and she can't respect you, because you don't love or respect yourself.

Instead, she has the additional burden of being responsible for your emotional well being. Even though you are now 100% faithful, truthful, earnest and even empathetic, she still has the burden of carrying you around like luggage, feeling responsible for you and having to either modify her own behavior in order to make you happy - at the loss of her own needs for happiness and support - or she is honest with you and shares her hurt and frustration and pain with you, but the end of result of that is that she destroys you emotionally, and she feels that guilt. You continue to hurt her by being an emotional ball and chain for her. You are not only not helping her, but actually hindering her, because she needs for you to be a rock, so she can fall apart and not feel responsible or guilty for your emotional well being as well as hers.

OMG that was such a hard lesson for me to learn! The harder I tried to help my wife the more I hurt her, not because I wasn't trying, but because in trying to help her, I was trying to control her. Yes, I wanted her to be happy, of course, who wouldn't? But deeper down, I wanted her to be happy because I felt like shit, and I was so tied to HER emotional state that I couldn't be responsible for my OWN happiness and healing. Once I got past the point where I could start to separate those things, I started to become more independent and self-reliant in an emotional sense. I had to learn that if she was having a bad day or was mad at me for whatever reason, that I could be sad or hurt because things in life are painful, HOWEVER what it didn't mean was that I was a bad person or someone unworthy of love.

Think of it this way. You cheated on and lied to your wife. How do think she felt internally when she learned about that? I mean, beyond the obvious pain... do you think she felt like she deserved it because she's such a worthless person? Or do you think she was hurt but pissed because she knows she's deserving of so much better? From what you've written, it seems to me like the latter, and still is. If you went home today and said, "I'm done. I'm leaving." do think she'd kill herself because she can't live without you? Or would she tell you to not let the door hit you in the ass on the way out? Again, I'm sure the latter. That's because your wife loves herself and knows her own value. It doesn't mean she doesn't feel hurt, but she doesn't crumble either. She's hurt because you aren't treating her with the love and respect she feels she deserves, not because she doesn't deserve it.

You need to get yourself to the same point. I can't promise you anything in regard to your wife. A lot of damage was done, and sometimes we hit our breaking point after which there is little chance of recovery. But I do think this is true... if you learn to love and respect yourself, then it will make her own personal healing easier on her in general, and it will make it easier to learn to love and respect you again. And if the worst does come to pass, if the marriage doesn't survive, then it leaves you intact, and with the best possible framework to move on, feel worthy, and continue to be the best dad, the best person you can be.

As always, maybe I'm way off base here, and if so, I apologize. I can only give you what I know, and draw from my own experience. I can tell you however that once I started down that path of loving myself again, EVERYTHING in my life started to change. My wife's reaction to me, my kids, my work, everyone I know and meet, and most of all, how I feel about myself... all of those things started to get exponentially better. I'm starting to like who I am and how I feel on a daily basis. It doesn't mean I never feel shitty about myself... I did terrible things, and have so much regret and remorse for my life choices. I'll never be able make those things right. But forgiving myself has led me to a point where I can stop being blocked by my own pain. I am no longer walking around like a sad puppy dog looking for mother's approval. Instead, now I own who I am and what I did. More importantly, I own who I am today and every day moving forward, and once that happened, my wife started to heal as well!

Last thing, some advice my wife gave me and so I pass on to you... When you die, would you rather that people say, "How sad. He had his demons and they got the best of him". Or would you rather they say, "He had his demons, but he worked hard to overcome them, and became someone really respectable, and that's something to be proud of"?

Sorry for the novel...

Me: WS
BS: ISurvivedSoFar
D-Day Nov '16
Status: Reconciling
"I am floored by the amount of grace and love she has shown me in choosing to stay and fight for our marriage. I took everything from her, and yet she chose to forgive me."

posts: 1446   ·   registered: Jan. 18th, 2017
id 8079975
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Zugzwang ( member #39069) posted at 10:15 PM on Friday, January 26th, 2018

^^^^YES

Start doing for you. Become the Rock. Stop doing for validation. Stop doing for her. Stop doing for the marriage. The marriage is gone. She is gone. She isn't even your friend at this point. Become your own friend and just start living life being a good man. The rest will follow. In time. Go above an beyond and let her go. Deal with the loss of family and accept that if that is what she needs to have space to heal. That is going above and beyond. Setting the cage bird free. Accepting the loss of what you have and are familiar with. That is going above and beyond. Still living and functioning when that happens instead of sinking. That is going above and beyond.

"Nothing in this world is worth having or worth doing unless it means effort, pain, difficulty." Teddy Roosevelt
D-day 9-4-12 Me;WS



posts: 4938   ·   registered: Apr. 23rd, 2013
id 8080010
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Zugzwang ( member #39069) posted at 10:16 PM on Friday, January 26th, 2018

You are just there. At the threshold of "getting it". You can't stomach yourself at this point. Let alone expect her to. Thats it. You are just a step away. Let go of what you want and what you will lose and do what she needs. She has already told you.

[This message edited by Zugzwang at 4:17 PM, January 26th (Friday)]

"Nothing in this world is worth having or worth doing unless it means effort, pain, difficulty." Teddy Roosevelt
D-day 9-4-12 Me;WS



posts: 4938   ·   registered: Apr. 23rd, 2013
id 8080012
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Greeneyesbluezy ( member #58158) posted at 1:20 AM on Saturday, January 27th, 2018

Isleguy,

When I was a lurker you were probably one of the first posters I stalked. I saw much of my husband in your profile.

But, here’s the thing; reconciliation takes two people, working their asses off. No matter what the indiscretions were, if you decide to stay together, ya both gotta work it. It is not able to repair and rebuild a relationship on just a wayward shoulders.

So, you are where you are, after years of lying (trickle truth is a snazzyier way of saying lying), but after a year of truth. And, it honestly sounds like you’re in hell, and both you and your wife believe you deserve to stay in hell for eternity. That, is not reconciliation.

You are a person. You’ve done shitty things and treated your wife terribly. You have apologized and sought counseling and have changed many of your wayward behaviors. Yet, you believe you cannot matter for all eternity because you were once a fuck up.

That is not reconciliation at all. That’s browbeating. And you’re both doing it to you. How could you possibly feel any better about yourself when you have allowed yourself to be defined by the fucked upness in you? It’s a part of us, all of us to differing degrees. No one I have ever met is, actually, perfect.

I’ve said before, you’re shooting arrows in the air looking for the one remedy that can help your wife. It’s in her. She has the capacity to move ahead in reconciliation and work together on your marriage. You cannot, no matter what you do or say, heal her.

I agree with the another poster who said give her the divorce. You cannot save this marriage alone and no one should live as you are now living. It will destroy your soul.

You have young children. Anyone can be their babysitter, they only have one father. A shell of a man cannot be a good father.

[This message edited by Greeneyesbluezy at 7:24 PM, January 26th (Friday)]

Stop right there, I already don't give a fuck.

posts: 1248   ·   registered: Apr. 5th, 2017
id 8080125
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 islesguy (original poster member #38090) posted at 7:28 AM on Saturday, January 27th, 2018

DaddyDom,

I really appreciate the time and effort you put in to responding to me. You are pretty much dead on. I understand your words but just don't feel them. I can't understand how to love myself when there is so much pain around me and so much disgust within. I get that this is important and could be life changing but don't get how to get there and how that would help my BS.

Me: WH
My BS has given me every opportunity to prove myself to her and I have failed again and again. I lied to her for well over 20 years and did nothing to help her. I made promises to her again and again that I would step up and still have not.

posts: 1748   ·   registered: Jan. 11th, 2013
id 8080231
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 islesguy (original poster member #38090) posted at 7:30 AM on Saturday, January 27th, 2018

Zugzwang,

You are saying that offering her a divorce is going above and beyond? I don't understand this.

Me: WH
My BS has given me every opportunity to prove myself to her and I have failed again and again. I lied to her for well over 20 years and did nothing to help her. I made promises to her again and again that I would step up and still have not.

posts: 1748   ·   registered: Jan. 11th, 2013
id 8080232
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