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Then you don't "get it" yet. You are close. You are still thinking about what you want more than what she needs and is entitled to.

Isleguy - my perception is that you still see yourself as the victim. You are the victim of your early circumstances, the victim of your own behaviors and the victim of not having a BS that is all in. That is why, IMHO, you don't feel it and are paralyzed. Victims live in FEAR.

Dude, turn it around. What are YOU GOING TO DO about it? When are you going to take control of your life? When are you going to be a positive influence for your family rather than being a drain because you are always a victim?

You need a shift, and a reality check. Right now you are admitting what you are doing but not really owning it. Yes you know what you did, what you've done, and see the damage all around you. But you are standing in the center looking around and curling up in a ball to try and protect yourself. All it is doing is driving more of a wedge between you and living, between you and your loved ones.

Mr. ISurvived played the victim for so long and guess what it did? It caused job loss and distance between the two of us, it caused me to lose respect for him. And it stinks right because he really was the victim as a child but now he is an adult and the adult must take charge. Right now the inner child has a hold on you and is guiding your every move which is immature by definition because it is a child.

I'm not trying to be harsh here - really I want you to get out of victim mode and move to survivor so you can stop the abuse to yourself and those around you. It is a wake up call and I know you are ready. Take the call.

ISurvivedSoFar,

What is your definition of owning it?

Owning it goes further than admitting. It is acknowledging that this is who you are (until you aren't) and that you purposely did this to yourself and your family. What you did was no accident. In the heat of recovering from d-day I had to tell Mr. ISurvived that his junk didn't just fall accidentally into hers - he purposefully and deliberately planned his encounters and willfully deceived me over and over again, choosing betrayal/her over me and over our family. I told him he was malicious and he said, "well, I didn't do it on purpose." Although he tried to play out his normal narrative, he was not the victim - he was the perpetrator, the abuser in this case. It was a real eye opener because up until then, he saw himself as the victim his entire life INCLUDING his affair.

So owning means you take the totality of your actions including infidelity and see your true self so you can go about making the changes you want to be better. Frankly it almost always come down to loving yourself enough to stop hurting yourself and others but you cannot do that until you admit or own that it is who you are. Until you admit it is your persona, you will keep putting it out there as something that happened rather than something that was designed and created by you and for you.

Does that make sense?

Not owning it.

Like looking in the mirror and seeing that person that did this and denying you are that person. Just focusing on that you aren't that person anymore (which I think white knucklers do first and foremost). Just focusing on that that person is was a cruel monster without really facing that you aren't looking at some person or cruel monster. You are looking at who you chose to be. You are looking at you. Or you do see that person as you and choose to drown in it. Stuck in the mirror or some fucked up fun house.

Regardless, I still think your wife is putting too much of her own healing on you and you will never be able to do her part of her healing that she must do on herself. Never.

What type of woman was your wife before all this. Honest view. Not a view that you want to paint to keep her from getting upset and leaving. Did she have any self confidence or esteem issues before that might have already existed and your affairs just made it worse? Was she strong and independent? Was she codependent? Why is she staying for the kids? Is it care? Is it money? The longer she stays, is it possible the more she resents you for having to stay dependent on you?

Honestly, she expects a lot from you. It isn't wrong of you to expect her to go to IC. This isn't just about you and the marriage. This must affect her as a mother too. She needs stuff that a MC could handle. So, why doesn't she go to IC? Why not MC? Could she be afraid that both of them might call her out on her own inertia?

Hey isles guy,

I’ll bow out here since my posts are obviously not helpful.

I do wish both you and wife healing.

ISurvivedSoFar,

Yes, that makes sense. I know that I made my choices and when necessary planned things to do things behind my BS's back. I know that I was the perpetrator.

Frankly it almost always come down to loving yourself enough to stop hurting yourself and others but you cannot do that until you admit or own that it is who you are.

This is the part that I still don't understand.

Zugzwang,

When I look in the mirror I see the monster that I am but I also see someone who I know can be a good person.

What type of woman was your wife before all this. Honest view. Not a view that you want to paint to keep her from getting upset and leaving. Did she have any self confidence or esteem issues before that might have already existed and your affairs just made it worse? Was she strong and independent? Was she codependent? Why is she staying for the kids? Is it care? Is it money? The longer she stays, is it possible the more she resents you for having to stay dependent on you?

My wife was and is still the most honest person I have ever met, She was modest from the beginning and a little shy and that got worse over time as I made her more and more uncomfortable with herself by picking on her sexually and physically. She has always been very strong in her opinions and independent taking care of herself. Overtime, I would say that she was a bit codependent because I took over the role of the finances after she stopped working when I quit her job for her because I was upset with how her job was treating her, I then told her that she didn't need to go back to work. She is staying for the kids because she doesn't want them to have to have a split life being shuffled between 2 homes. It is not about money. As far as her resentment growing, I would say that is true the longer she stays and doesn't feel like I am trying to truly change and help things be better not about being dependent.

So, why doesn't she go to IC? Why not MC?

As long as she sees me continuing to be complacent and not prove my worth to her he has no interest in either of these. She gave me the gift of MC years ago and I shit all over it by lying my way though it

and letting the therapist put all of the work on her telling her that she was responsible for getting over it. Meanwhile she didn't even know what it was she was supposed to get over because I was still lying about everything I did. If she ever gives me the chance of MC with her again it will be because I earned it not a gift like last time. If that ever happened and a therapist called her out, that therapist would get a piece of my mind as I explain how many tines she has been the innocent victim of my past choices.

I respect your opinions but you really have her all wrong.

It doesn't matter how many times she has been the innocent victim. She still needs to heal herself. Herself. Regardless of what you are doing for her or for yourself. She needs to get herself into IC. Period. She is too dependent upon you and what you are doing. Or she can continue to expect you to do what she should be doing for herself and play the role of victim. If you know you haven't stepped up to play a more loving romantic husband then do so. If you can do it for your children and you did it for her at one time to make her want to marry you in the first place, then you can do it again. But, from your posts that doesn't seem to be what she needs. Every gesture counts but only counts at this point over time. There is no one time thing that will make it all better. It will be years of "courting" her. But, you can only help heal her by providing safety and being caring. She has to do the rest herself.

Maybe I do have her all wrong. But, there are many of us that are telling you she isn't doing what she needs to be doing for herself. I think you make excuses for her because of what you did to her for so long.

I'm not sure what is going on in your household but I can tell you the children will struggle if the two of you aren't demonstrating a loving relationship together.

It seems to me you are two folks that are struggling and pulling away from each other rather than towards each other. It may be that the two of you need to go on parallel paths for some time and then determine if you can be together after that but isn't that what you are doing now? How are you showing your BS now that you are working hard to change and working for the relationship?

I cannot tell you if it is too late or not but from your words it sounds as if your BS needs to overcome the reasons why she has allowed you to treat her so badly. That's hers to own but yours to remedy for your abhorrent behavior. It starts with blunt and open dialog about feelings that resulted in behaviors that are unwanted and detrimental.

I hate to see the suffering between you and individually when it can be overcome whether separately or together. But it must be overcome or else each of you will fold into yourselves, bitter with resentments, and unable to provide for yourselves and your children the full breadth of your guidance and love. I know because I've lived that way for years and am just now coming back into the land of the living. It feels good now but my past behavior did not go unnoticed by our children. That's a lot of damage control and honest open dialog to help them understand why their mother was working like crazy and blocking out the love. Now comes the work of why I allowed myself to be in an M that did not meet my needs, allowing resentments to get in the way of what I thought I was giving my children but fell short.

Both of you have some work to do and it is hard, tough, and not for sissies but it is so worth it. Just open up to her, tell her how you have failed her and what you intend to do about it. It is up to you to follow through and she can decide what she needs to do moving forward.

The way I see it is we owe it to ourselves to get emotionally healthy while we can still model it for our children so they have a chance to change the story for their future and their children's futures.

Wishing you much luck!

[This message edited by ISurvivedSoFar at 12:50 PM, January 28th (Sunday)]

Mrs. Islesguy is a scant year out from learning the person to whom she’s yoked wasn’t who she believed him to be.

On SI, the common wisdom is that healing from infidelity is a 2-5 year proposition. This is very general; many take longer.

I have NO doubt Islesguy is working hard. I take exception to the assumption that, because he has not yet seen the result he would like, Mrs. Islesguy is not. First, she’s there, which is significant. Beyond that, we don’t know. We can imagine where she is, in terms of healing, based on our own experiences—and what IG posts (when, generally, he’s disheartened.)

She’s barely a year out, and was deeply traumatized by learning of long-term deception. Is it possible she’s not “stuck” or “not doing her part,” but rather right where we’d expect her to be? Her own husband started a new thread because the responses about her were, in his view, unfair. Maybe we should listen to him rather than tell him he’s wrong. You know, at least until she’s in any way deviated from the normal healing trajectory.

I did all of those things and hid them all from my mother so that she would still believe I was her honest son. It was all so fake and I did the same with my BS, the only difference is that she found out, my mother never did.

What else do you need to know, seriously?

You are simply repeating the pattern, only with your substitute.

ETA:

It's more important to you that someone THINKS you are honest, then actually BEING honest. There's a huge difference.

[This message edited by smokenfire at 7:53 PM, January 28th (Sunday)]

You know what? We can’t help your wife at this time. We can continue to help you. I can see you desperately want a chance to show her all you believe she deserves.

I am only throwing out suggestions. I know nothing about your personal life.

You seem to struggle with being a leader in the home. Groups like promise keepers, Kirk Cameron programs, James Dobson (even if you aren’t religious ....like him on Facebook and read and listen to all his podcast. Hitting Home Ministries. Again...not trying to push religion. These groups offer a great deal of Information regarding a wife’s heart. The change a man can do in order to become a loving husband. It’s the reason I am suggesting.

So Valentine’s Day is coming up. Who normally get kids gifts? In my home and growing up. Dad always did this. My husband has always done this as well.

Got to target. They have adorable paper hearts for 5 dollars in the valentines section. Hang those all over the windows. The mirrors in the house. If she askes. Tell her. No matter how you feel...I want the kids to see their Dad loving their mom. It’s the right thing for the kids. I must teach my son to be more.

Get her a bag of gheridelli Carmel squares. Yummy! Cute socks with hearts on them. Plus the gifts for your kids.

Start turning 80s music on and dancing with the kids. It’s fun for them. Your wife will eventually join in. Maybe not today but she will. Because your kids will flourish. And this will make her happy.

Play a board game with your kids...again kids flourishing.

I highly recommend booking a trip for you and your wife. Do you sleep in separate rooms? If so book two double beds. New Orleans is great because so much to see and walk around. Tickets to a show at the Sanger. You must stay at the Roosevelt. Their spa is to die for. Order her a spa day complete with champagne. Go to the plaza cafe for breakfast. Muriel’s for dinner and cocktails. Emeril’s Delmonico for dinner as well. Just the two of you away from all of the crap. Tell her it’s no strings. Just two married people getting away. This is also good for the kids.

You aren’t looking for a reward here. Your goal is to reward her. To indulge her.

So to what Zug is speaking about. It takes a great deal of energy to be angry and to hate. I know in my own home. When I have those moments of hating my husband...wanting to hurt him. To punish him. Guess who ends up hurting the most? Me!! I end up miserable and my heart literally burns. And then I can get deeper into a funk.

I imagine this same dynamic is going on in your home. It’s a horrible place to be. And the BS must have tools to combat it.

Zugzwang,

I think you make excuses for her because of what you did to her for so long.

The facts of my many betrayals are the facts. I don't need to make any excuses.

ISurvivedSoFar,

You are right that our children have been exposed to a very screwed up relationship. I am trying to get emotionally healthy and I know that with every positive step I make I will be a better husband and father and this will improve my relationship with my BS because I will be more open with my feelings with her. It is all for her and my kids, they are all that matter to me.

solus sto,

I appreciate this:

Her own husband started a new thread because the responses about her were, in his view, unfair. Maybe we should listen to him rather than tell him he’s wrong.

My wife has been through years and years of hell at my hands. It has been over a year since the last TT but she has known what a POS I am after learning of my betrayals over 6 years. However, the 2-5 years as I understand it is after the last TT.

smokenfire,

I could not agree with you more. I can see the pattern. I have been a selfish ass doing whatever I wanted to do in life and then hiding it to maintain the facade of an honest person both with my Mother growing up and my wife.

Iwantmyglasses,

Thank you for your post and your ideas on Valentines Day. But, I almost threw up when reading along as New Orleans was the city I was in with my coworker when I destroyed my marriage. My poor BS.

Sorry I suggested it. N.O. Can be romantic. But it’s also a place of daubachery.

Miami has a great spa and retreat. They do wellness classes. Strict rules about electronics. Everything is peaceful. Serene

The st. Regis in Atlanta is my favorite place in the world. Lots of dining, shopping. Their high teas is so nice as well. I know men aren’t into it. Most women like it though.

My point is plan a 2 night get away for her to relax. And just enjoy each other as people. You will get to see your wife as a woman. Not just the mother of your children.