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So one thing that plagued me is her reason for flying to have sex with her AP for the day. Why would you fly just to have sex with someone as well as foot the bill if the sex wasn’t that great? She claims she felt maybe it would have been better the second time and because we didn’t know she had the funds to do it she went ahead with it because she could..he still couldn’t give her a O but they made sex videos and she let him finish in her...I feel she is lying through her teeth but maybe other WW could shed some light on me.

[This message edited by Texashunter41 at 2:45 PM, May 29th (Tuesday)]

Is she lieing? Yes...but at this point, she probably believes her lies.

Most any female who wants to get laid with NSA sex, can get in their car, drive minimal distance to a bar. Find a guy, and be getting busy within a couple hours.

If she spends hundreds to fly there to do so, and goes thru the effort of an elaborate lie in order to be away from home like that, she's doing it bc she wants to F that guy and only that guy. She obviously had feelings for him if she did all that, at least at the time that she did it. If it really wasnt good the first time, then she definitely WANTED it to be better the second time. Had it been better, who knows where she'd be right now? And whether it was good or not, she still enjoyed it.

I'll end this with saying that I doubt it was ever bad. And I think that had a lot to do with her going back. More than likely It was mind blowing and she wanted more.

[This message edited by GoldenR at 3:03 PM, May 29th (Tuesday)]

She claims the only feelings she had was she liked him and found him attractive..she now claims he wasn’t really that attractive now..I don’t fall for it but I don’t know why she would want to continue to lie about it..we are like 19 months out..why continue to try to make me believe different.

I agree with GoldenR, but of course I have no way of knowing....just my gut feeling.

She has said she wanted him but that she only liked him..that’s the part that confuses me..he couldn’t sexually please her but yet she would fly for it..what a pos I am to her..I could give her a O almost every time but he was still better..so much better she didn’t care that he didn’t give her a O..again..I had so much to offer and could give but it was nothing compared to him..she wanted him so bad that she didn’t care if he couldn’t make her O...or she’s lying about not being able to have a O with him. Which is what I believe..but what do I know..I’m just the dumbass who stayed..second best is what I am to her in my eyes..

TH, I’ve never understood why so many betrayed folks want input from the WWs here...

Just listen to your story. It sounds exciting and sorta romantic if you’re a cheating piece of shit. Imagine the excitment of doing something so bold and daring. I bet she felt naughty and edgy. I would guess they spent some amount of time building up the anticipation too. Shit like that is awesome as long as you can suspend empathy and lack a conscience. The more we invest in something the harder we try to convince ourselves it’s worth the cost.

The not giving a fuck is what I would be focusing on. Not some stupid fantasy plane trip fuckfest.

TH, I don’t think you or any other BS who stays is a stupid piece of shit.

I am not a WW but I am a woman, so I'll answer this as best I can without the benefit of having the lens of a cheater. But this is going to be my honest opinion, so some things I say may seem hurtful or blunt. None of it is meant to be personal or upset anyone.

I would guess that she liked the sex well enough when she was having it. Otherwise why the hell would she make sex movies with him or travel to see him? She was getting something out of the sex no doubt, if only some kind of feeling of connection or some kind of buzz or high, even if it wasn't technically great.

As far as not having an O while fucking, meh. Maybe she did, maybe she didn't...but many women I've talked to (myself included) even if we don't have an O while doing it, still enjoy the process. Bonus points to the guy who takes care of us afterward. My friends all are more interested in the sexual connection and intimate feelings rather than just focused on an O. Of course I don't speak for all women or even most women, just all of the women I have talked with in my immediate peer group about this subject, so ... that's like 4 other ladies and me. Take that for what it is worth.

Now...ask me now and I would tell you: 'There is no one who is better at sex than my current partner.' Full stop. And guess what? If for whatever reason we broke up, especially if he did me dirty, I would be the first person here saying: "meh, the sex was okay." or, more like, I wouldn't be able to even really remember it or I might even feel embarrassed at the things we did because I was so disconnected from him at that point. In other words, for me, the negatives that happen in a relationship that ends typically alter my feelings about the sex and the guy.

Now, for a cheating wife who got caught and suddenly realizes she wants to reconcile? Imagine how the reality of a D-day colors the memories of the sex? Of course she's saying the sex was no good. And she may actually mean it along these lines: 'there is no sex that was good enough to make me want to live through this kind of hell on earth and shame and fear etc.' (i.e. D-day).

But the question I would have for you is: Is this a deal breaker for you? If the sex she had was good with him, would that mean you want to divorce her? It seems to me that you already have your mind made up that she must be hiding the truth from you (which she may be, or she may honestly believe what she's telling you too, so there is that). How does that change the way you feel about reconciling?

No I wouldn’t find it any of those things..I have little kids who I’d miss to much. If they lived closer ya maybe then..but not to leave at 6 in the morning and not come home till after midnight..he’ll i don’t even like my WW enough to do what she did for him..and I loved her..

Of course you don't feel that way TH. You have empathy and a conscience. You give a shit about your family. I understand.

What I’m trying to get at is the whole flight thing is just another stupid fantasy. She mentally twisted things around to fit her agenda. It probably is hard for her to look back and understand why when she’s facing all of these consequences.

TH,

I know you're asking for WW opinions here, but I thought I'd give you a story that you might find funny, and, while almost certainly isn't your wife's situation, might be some parallels you can draw to it.

I had a casual relationship with a woman in college, she was very pretty, but I couldn't stand to be around her. She literally had nothing interesting to say, was totally immersed in gossip, and had 0 overlap in common interests with me. But, we had sex. Was the sex great? Nope, it wasn't, she was very pretty, but, if I'm honest, she has to be up there with the worst sexual partners I've ever had. I won't elaborate, but it was just "not good". A few times I slept with her and I honestly thought to myself, "I wish I'd jerked off instead".

Well, she finished college before me and moved home. Called me up on Friday afternoon about 4 months later and started talking all sexy. Problem was, she lived 2 states away now, back at home with her parents. Well, talk gets all hot and heavy and.. You guessed it, here's me in the car.. Drove 6 hours one way, had sex with her, then drove home; all in the same day. And the sex sucked, just like I expected it to and knew it would. I still did it though.

Was this your wife? I have no idea, but, if she's a high drive individual, I suppose it could be. I've done more stupid s**t in my life for sex than I care to count; was it because that person was SOOOO awesome that I just had to have "her"? Nope, not in a single case, it was always because not having sex is worse than having sex, even if it's terrible sex.

So, all this to say, who knows. I'm inclined to not believe her story, because women generally don't do crap like I did as a young man for sex, it's on offer everywhere, and it's easy to get a new partner if this one sucks. But, maybe it was her? I'd NEVER put this past a man, so, in the spirit of equality, maybe I shouldn't put it past a woman either.

Problem I find myself in I have no feeling either way..don’t care if I D or R..feel dead or huge lack of feelings. For me I just rather her be truly honest vs feeding me bs just to try to make me feel less worse about it all..she does that a lot..I’d rather someone tell me ya, the sex with him was much better with him than you..that way I can be like cool..I’m done and you can go find him or someone who can fulfill you like I can’t. Just stop blowing smoke up my rear. She’s all about saying how I’m so much better sexually, so much more attractive..blah blah blah...how could I be these things if he was all you wanted and would throw it all away for..You never put that kind of effort into me..

Sorry my mind is flying at 100 mph today..can’t focus my thoughts

TH,

In your last post, I have to say, I see a lot of myself, and also, I think it's because of how we view a hypothetical A of our own. The sex better be f**king FANTASTIC, right? I'm risking my M for this, so it better be off the charts. And, look at what happens in an A, there are often a ton of things done to make sure it's "off the charts". Lots of verboten things for the H or W, sex many times a day, videos, sexual talking. All leading up to the act, which, again, if I'm risking all this for it, it better be a scene straight off Youporn; something that's so outside the lines and so amazing that I'm willing to lose half of everything, my family and my W for.

But, in all my reading here, it's just not the motivation for most women. I know it seems hard to understand, it's impossible for me to wrap my head around risking all of it for mediocre sex, but, that's exactly what a lot of people do. Because they feel like they are getting something else, excitement, caring, love, someone who understand them.. They risk it for that, not for the sex. The sex is "payment" for the things that they feel they are getting; and in most cases, people vastly overpay for it, because they aren't actually getting those things at all; but that's entirely besides the point.

Listen, as much as you don't want to hear it, I'm sure if you asked the OM, the sex was "spectacular". And I'm sure it was for him, he made sure it was. But that's not what your W was after, she didn't care one way or the other about it, she wanted something else from the A. So, for her, the sex was a tool she used to get whatever it was else that she really wanted. I know that's hard for me, and probably you to accept, it frankly seems ridiculous to me. But I've heard it from my WW, and from enough other WS's here and elsewhere to actually believe it.

So, was the sex spectacular for her? Maybe. But it probably didn't matter. He might have had ED and a tiny penis and she still would have gone back for more, because she was getting what she wanted out of the relationship. Sex was either a "necessary evil" or icing on the cake. But, unlike me, and I suspect you, it wasn't the primary driver.

TH,

What do you mean when you say this about how she makes you feel?:

You never put that kind of effort into me..

What kind of effort do you mean?

Also, of course she's trying to make you feel less worse about it. She's got two reasons to do that: one, she probably does want you to feel less worse about things. Second, she wants her own pain to stop and as long as she's still feeling as if she's under a microscope for her actions she's not feeling great. But I think you have to take her motivations out of it. I think you have to focus on you and what your needs are.

Based on what I'm reading from you, you simply want truth and maybe more specifically you seem to hope she's going to give you some truth that will make it easier for you to justify either reconciling or divorcing. Am I reading you correctly?

And it is okay if your thoughts are swirling. Maybe chatting here is a way to get some clarity.

Jaymom- the thing is when you listen to her the sex wasn’t touchy feely..wasn’t intimate like you’d think. She claims she didn’t even really look at him much during it and couldn’t even tell you if he was touching during the act but maybe a couple of times. All she did is listen to him talk a lot and have sex in between. It wasn’t romantic or filled with any connection..it’s like she was just there..at least that’s how she explains it..but ya I would think one would be getting something real from it..to me the way she discribes it is like that of a street hooker doing charity work..that’s about as close to a connection that there was..but again these are all based off her words..and can anyone really believe in those words after her lying so much and all the TT..to me it’s better to go underground with the real truths at this point then admitting them now..don’t wanna be real and make things worse..

It never ceases to amaze me the lengths a man will go to in order to minimize his wife's cheating. I suppose it's a combination of pride, ego, and self-esteem that make us want desperatly to believe her when she says he had a small dick or she never had orgasm or they only did oral or they never did oral and...etc. etc.

I don't know what to say to you that hasn't already been said other than it's way past time to take off the rose-colored glasses of denial and get real.

Doing the forbidden or dangerous gives a huge rush. Even if its not all that "great". There are entire industries devoted to letting you feel on the cusp of danger that people stand in line and pay for - roller coasters, bunjee jumps, parachuting, hell ... Even roller skating.

Add to that a little lust and the allure of keeping a secret and you have a strong cocktail.

People get hooked on the rush.

The sex better be f**king FANTASTIC, right? I'm risking my M for this, so it better be off the charts.

This is like going to the lake for the weekend. It'll be great and we'll have a lot of fun.

Yet when you get there, it's miserably hot and sticky, ants and spiders everywhere, everything smells like sunblock, campfire and fish, and you fight stickers and sand the whole time, and you realize you're bored to death.

Yet you convince yourself is was a great time, because that's what you are supposed to think.

I can tell you 100% that this guy isn’t minimizing a dang thing about my wife’s affair..no rose colored glasses for me either..it’s her denile..I would never believe for a second oh he had a small cock etc etc..