SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

With a heavy heart I find myself back on SI.

Last year I experienced a rather ruff introduction [to the forums] which scared me off of continuing to post. A lot of strong opinions where given in response to my posts and I wasn't in the best place to deal with others who appeared to be great pain and anger themselves.

But now I'm back. This time in the Reconciliation forum.

I've been in IC for about 6 months now. Attempting to resolve some deep seated childhood issues that affect my ability to be open with others. My "closed off" nature contributed to the conditions that lead up to my WW's affair. The IC work is painful (lifting rocks laid down 40+ years ago), but I do feel like it's bearing fruit and I'm starting to feel changes in myself.

WW has had a few IC sessions, but is not actively in IC at the moment.

My WW and I have been attempting to R since DDAY2 (NOV 2019). However, the progress (if any) has been at a snails pace. Been in MC for 3 months, but our main blocker is desire. Through out this shitty traumatic time WW has maintained that she feels no sexual desire to be with me.

Warning: Possible TMI

Every attempt at sexual intimacy ends up with her feeling turned off and me feeling rejected. We have managed some mutual masturbation, but no intercourse. WW even finds passionate kissing unpleasant. Neither myself or WW wants a sexless marriage.

Our MC is encouraging us to try some intimate sexual contacts, but (so far) it's not helping to fire up any desire in WW. The constant sexual rejections are not helping me recover either. My frustration (with lack of sex and feeling stuck) is bubbling up into angry outbursts.

Other aspects of our relationship are OK'ish. We co-habit without issue, share a bed (and a cuddle), can hug, show affection and enjoy family time. But no sexual desire.

The current flat zone feels very damaging to our relationship. I think about removing myself from the situation, but the thought of leaving my home and breaking my daughters heart is stopping me.

My daughter has been so good throughout this nightmare. We've attempted to include her with age appropriate information on what's going on between mummy and daddy. And she has even managed to secure a place in a tested entry high school. So proud of her.

I'm making changes in myself to be a better man. I even brought myself a new car just because I wanted it! This is something I would never have done before, my actions were always for the good of my family and our future. Never about my wants.

Has anyone managed to R after being in a situation like this? Does desire ever return once it has been lost? I would really like to hear from some old sages on here!

[This message edited by Cr1spy at 5:04 AM, January 22nd (Wednesday)]

I've been in IC for about 6 months now. Attempting to resolve some deep seated childhood issues that affect my ability to be open with others. My "closed off" nature contributed to the conditions that lead up to my WW's affair.

Sounds like you are accepting some responsibility for her affair?????

WW has had a few IC sessions, but is not actively in IC at the moment

And you are working harder than she is towards R?????

Every attempt at sexual intimacy ends up with her feeling turned off and me feeling rejected.

Actually it sounds more like you are the only one who wants to R.

I don't see anything in the rest of your post that says what your WW is doing for R. I think you both are only staying for your daughter. No one want to break up their child's home, but can you really live like this until she is 18??? Your wife really needs to step up before you can really call this reconciliation

[This message edited by Atrowspark at 5:44 AM, January 22nd (Wednesday)]

My "closed off" nature contributed to the conditions that lead up to my WW's affair.

This is just not true. Your closed off nature may have contributed to problems in your M, but they in no way contributed to your CW cheating. She had other options for dealing with your distance or whatever. She chose wrong.

It does sound like you are the only one wanting R. Sounds like your CW wants to stay together maybe for your child, maybe for the comfort and convenience, but not because she truly loves you and wants to be with you, unless she has always had problems with libido, which doesn't make sense in light of her cheating.

Or, maybe she's still cheating and saving herself her AP. I've read about cheaters doing that sort of thing.

Your wife is 100% responsible for her choices. Your wife has to dig in and figure out the reason for her lack of desire and own her actions. Your job is to figure out whether you can have the life you want with her.

Through out this shitty traumatic time WW has maintained that she feels no sexual desire to be with me.

Cr,

If that does not change and you do not want to be in a sexless marriage, its only a matter of time until she finds someone she is attracted to. This has nothing to do with YOU, and shes the one who should be in therapy more than you.

I am sorry you find yourself back here, but welcome back. I have to agree with the previous posters though. It doesnt sound like she is doing anything towards becoming a safe partner or reconciling. It sounds like she just doesnt want to give up the security of the marriage. And that is dangerous for you because that will only work until she finds something better.

To be clear. I am not accepting responsibility for the affair. However, I do accept "partial" responsibility for the state of our marriage pre-affair. I wasn't the man I wanted to be and I'm working on that.

WW is trying to move forward, I've seen the effort. Painful discussions, reading a lot of relationship books and attending marriage councilling. Shes honest about her feelings and feels as stuck as I do.

I feel she is stuck still longing for the warm fuzzy affair sensations. I've tried to get her to denounce the OM but she still defends him. To be clear the OM is a virtual stranger (doesn't even share a common language) who didn't re-engage when she chased him on DDAY2.

But that is only my opinion and she doesn't share it.

Have you considered seeing a licensed sex therapist to tackle the problems in your relationship and sex life? But as others have noted, your WW must be as committed to saving your M as you are to have any of this work successfully.

[This message edited by psychmom at 7:54 AM, January 22nd (Wednesday)]

I've tried to get her to denounce the OM but she still defends him. To be clear the OM is a virtual stranger (doesn't even share a common language) who didn't re-engage when she chased him on DDAY2.

How is she defending him??? She might be subconsciously blaming you for him dumping her.

WW is trying to move forward, I've seen the effort. Painful discussions, reading a lot of relationship books and attending marriage councilling. Shes honest about her feelings and feels as stuck as I do

This is bull shit. She is not trying to move forward if she is still pining for her boyfriend. And your therapist needs to be beating the shit out of her until she admits that she is the problem here.

Maybe you need a sex therapist not a marriage counselor. Right now you have a relationship where you are busting your chops and she is still hurt by him not accepting her chasing.

She is still emotionally in the affair.

How is she defending him??? She might be subconsciously blaming you for him dumping her.

She won't accept my opinion that he was just a chancer who got lucky with her. In her eyes he was just doing what guys do and now wants nothing to do with her because he doesn't want to be a marriage breaker. He didn't mind her married status when he picked her up for sex in his car though. Fucking other peoples wives is not something I consider a good character trait or "just what guys do".

She is still emotionally in the affair.

This is my feeling also and we have talked about it. Apparently the feelings are fading but not completely gone. Sometimes her honesty is brutal.

Have you considered seeing a licensed sex therapist to tackle the problems in your relationship and sex life

Our MC is also a registered sex therapist, hence the intimate homework. It's not easy for either of us though. WW doesn't feel like it and I don't want to be intimate with someone who doesn't want it.

We are both trying. Yes my WW could be seeing her own IC and I will bring that up again at our next MC session (tomorrow).

Cr1spy, you are at an impasse and the only person who can push this marriage forward is your WW. However, she doesn't sound like she wants to. She's not giving you anything to work with and even you think she's still holding a candle for the OM and the only reason she's not currently with him is because he dumped her. R isn't happening here and R can't happen until your WW wants to change. More IC won't make her want to. More MC, especially one that allows her to lay blame and the responsibility of R at you feet, will not help her. She either wants it or she doesn't and right now, the only thing she wants to do is co-parent with you as a roommate, not as a spouse, with zero obligation for intimacy and R.

The only thing that MIGHT change her mind is you focusing on yourself and getting to a place where you can lay it all on the line - either she gets with R or you walk and heal on your own. I can see how hard you are holding on to her, parenting her, prodding her into R, and as you're now seeing - It. Does. Not. Work. It never works. R has to come from her or it will quickly become false R and a new DDay or a long, painful road to D. It doesn't matter if this OM doesn't give her the time of day. A new one will. And maybe he'll be even worse and ask her to run off with him. Maybe she'll just get tired of you dealing with the consequences of her A, not getting her needs for intimacy met, and will file for D. Maybe, she's actually content having a roommate situation with you and having flings outside the marriage as long as you let her and there are minimal consequences. Point is - as of today, you are not on a path to R. You are on a path to D and that will only change when you start to radically change up what you are doing.

Pick up a copy of "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Dr. Robert Glover. Check out the 180 in the healing library and follow it. Stick with IC. Get rid of MC and only go back to MC after your WW has had more IC and starts showing some remorse. Also don't even stick with an MC that says you're in any way shape or form to blame for her A. SHE had options other than OM. She chose him over having a slightly uncomfortable talk with you about the state of the marriage. It is 100% all her fault and she needs to own that before R can even begin.

Crispy,

My brother, I am so sorry to say that, you are in denial, about all of this.

You are doing all the work, her almost none. You want this, and she is stringing you along.

Look, man, you are being a fool. I know you want it to work, but it won't work this way.

It won't work unless BOTH of you want it too and she does not want it too, she could care less about you or the marriage.

File for divorce ASAP and move on brother...

So are you saying that shes not trying because she doesn't desire me sexually?

Once again the responses from this forum appear to be pro-divorce.

Just thought I would reach our for some support. Apologies for wasting your time.

Ugh - my only comment is that my WH indicated last year (post dday 3) that he didn't want to touch me anymore - that the attraction was gone. Magically (?!?!) now that I am leaving and moving away later this year, the spark has come back for him and he has made a few advances recently that a mere 3 months ago he said he did not feel anymore.

IMO, this is all in your WW's head - seriously it is. Will it "come back?" IDK - but it can. The issue isn't you - it's her just like it was my WH. Why is suddenly he attracted to me again, now that I'm leaving? Narcissistic manipulation? Is it fear of losing what you have? Perhaps - granted I don't think this is a conscious move of his - why his attraction has returned is likely as big a mystery to him as it is to me...but the issue is his and his alone.

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 9:44 AM, January 22nd (Wednesday)]

So are you saying that shes not trying because she doesn't desire me sexually?

Once again the responses from this forum appear to be pro-divorce.

Just thought I would reach our for some support. Apologies for wasting your time.

"you will go through the 5 stages of grieving (can be in any order): Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Letting Go, Acceptance."

Sounds like right now you are "Bargaining"

You are not responsible for the affair,

So you cannot fix it!

That is your partner's job!

You have to let her take the lead, her actions will speak loader than her words.

Let go, you can win this war

By knowing not to fight.

[This message edited by cainsite at 9:59 AM, January 22nd (Wednesday)]

Cr1spy, don't give up here! People are just trying to help. sometimes the truth of what others see who are not a part of your situation is hard to hear. It doesn't mean they don't care, its the opposite actually. We all know how horrible this situation is & just trying to give outsider perspective.

It sounds like your WW is still very much in the fog. It is so hurtful. My WH gave me many of those same hurtful truths (about intimacy etc just like you are getting, so I can empathize with you there.) For my husband, it took a long time to get out of that fog. I "niced" him which everyone says not to do. I am not suggesting taking my approach, but we are now over 2 years from dday & we are in a much better place. My WH just gave me a thank you letter saying how much he appreciated that I believed in us & did not give up on us. It just took him awhile to get to that place. I think it all depends on how much you can take. (You dont have to accept any of her behavior) & while I am happier now, all the affects from what he did past original dday do still haunt me very much.

To fully answer your question, my WH lacked desire for me very much after dday & it was apparent. It is 100% better now & we both love our sex life.

[This message edited by tikismom at 10:21 AM, January 22nd (Wednesday)]

So are you saying that shes not trying because she doesn't desire me sexually?

Once again the responses from this forum appear to be pro-divorce.

Just thought I would reach our for some support. Apologies for wasting your time.

It is not pro divorce, it is pro reality.

It is pro self respect. It is pro "not living in denial".

Gosh crispy, reality is reality.

And who ever wants to be with a person that does not sexually desire them.

Or someone that it so repulsed by their partner that they will not even try to have sex.

Staying marriage at the cost of your self-respect is not bargain...

it is pro reality

It is pro "not living in denial".

I'm not an idiot and well aware of [our] situation. The door to leave is wide open for both of us.

We have discussed what a separation would look like and acknowledged it's doable. I'm in the process of selling one of my businesses and that will leave us both pretty well off.

The only thing stopping us from separating is our mutual desire to try and fix this mess and see if we can reconnect. We've spent a large proportion of our adult life together and have a lot of history to throw away. Not to mention our beautiful 10 YO daughter who loves us both dearly.

I'm a successful 46 year old business owner, not some love struck teenager. Trying to fix a marriage is hard. Much harder than throwing in the towel.

Desire is our blocking factor.

Hi Cr1spy,

I'm sorry your heart is heavy and that you're struggling. Please don't be scared off by what sounds and feels like harsh language. I think that the main issue here is something you touched on. Your wife still has fuzzy feelings for her AP. She is still defending him. Those fuzzy feelings are preventing her from appropriately valuing you and your life together. How can she stick up for this piece of shit who through a grenade into your life (you her husband who she is supposed to value at all else).

Marriage is a partnership. You need to be on the same team. That means that if someone hurts one of you, he's *both* of your enemy. She doesn't see it right now, but the AP is her enemy too. He was a willing enabler of her destructive decisions that almost cost her her marriage and her family.

I recommend taking a step back - detaching somewhat - until she is able to tell you genuinely that he is not a good person. I'd back off of sex for now. I'd even back off of other commitments to R. I had my husband write a list of all his AP's bad qualities. This got easier for him over time and was harder at first. You can't R if you're not playing on the same team.

emergent8

I recommend taking a step back - detaching somewhat - until she is able to tell you genuinely that he is not a good person.

Thanks, that's pretty well where my head is currently at.

tikismom

It sounds like your WW is still very much in the fog.

I think you're right. This whole time WW has has seemed very foggy to me. Not really understanding what was at stake or what she actually wants.

There's a large MLC aspect to this too. Just had her 50th birthday, lost some old school mates from last year. Cancer scare in family, personal illness.

Not that any of that is any excuse, but it does lay foundations for enabling poor behaviour.