SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Background of the affair:

https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=644194

Sorry for the explicit details below but just dumping what happened in last 24 hrs:

Yesterday, I told her I am out - no sex, no contact, we are separating and getting a divorce and I am taking the dog. She broke down and she came clean - she confessed that she did not feel excited anymore with our sex before the affair and thus we had a dead bedroom for the past 2-3 years.

Its not that the sex itself was bad but she hated the predictable nature (we only did it on weekend mornings or when I came back from work and always in bed in only one or two positions) and the lack of foreplay. She said she would not be aroused at all with me and was afraid that she was frigid and thus she went along with her affair. She initially did not plan to sleep with the other guy but once they connected a bit she decided to try it out to see if it was indeed what she wanted. She said the other guy was the complete opposite of me - he turned her on a lot BUT the sex with him was awful (she said with me the foreplay was non-existent but the sex was good when it did happen). She said she liked being grabbed, treated like a goddess and made to feel dirty. He would give her tasks to do and directions to follow and what to wear and how he would fuck her everywhere and pull and grab and slap her and do it all over the hotels and apartments and public places and would be very vocal about it. He would keep her excited all through the day with texts, directions and tasks and pictures and she felt dirty and aroused when she would meet him in the hotel rooms. However, she said the actual sex with him was bad - he was a small dude jack hammering and she hated that but with me it would be a more passionate rhythmic sex which she likes way more.

She said she wanted to do all those things with me but the problem was she always pretended to be "the innocent girl" from the day we met and she could not bring herself to break that image with me. Although she told me she rarely masturbated, never watched porn and she had "normal sex drive" but in actual she has a really high sex drive and every night would watch porn and she would masturbate on the bathroom floor and every morning after I left for work she would masturbate on her pillow. In the last few days we had intense uninhibited sex 4-5 times a day for 7 days straight where I basically hate-fucked her and she would play very dirty and she said she wants that and more and only with me.

She told me she was afraid I may fall from her eyes and she felt ashamed initially if she turned down the "good girl" image that she played to me from the first day we said hello. She could not break that image herself but wanted me to discover this side of her slowly over the course of our relationship by me slowly probing this and expanding what we did. She said she herself discovered this more and more in the last few years. In the early days of our relationship, I did probe a bit but she was just happy being vanilla so I did not push anymore and later on I missed her subtle hints. Now when I was walking out of the door she figured she had nothing to lose and tell me exactly what she wanted.

I am confused what to do now. On one hand what she is saying seems genuine - in the last few days I saw sides of her in bed I have never seen before and we had probably the best sex ever but on the other hand, I cannot get the image of her with some other guy out of my head and get over all those nights of lying and betrayal and I don't know how to build a life together with so much lack of trust and an affair in the skeleton closet.

Any advise? I want to especially hear from women on this forum.

These are all excuses on her part.

You said you were out, you should be out. Whatever she told you shouldn't come into play.

She cheated.

I believe she knows how to speak and based on what you said she is able to enunciate her thoughts.

She should have done that before she let some other guy fuck her.

Get out, she's lying.

BUT the sex with him was awful

This is a very common lie by waywards. It is a way to minimize. "You're so much better". Really? Then why keep going back if it is so bad? Why not ask for what you want from BS?

It may be true. You have to decide if that means anything to you. It doesn't change the fact that she lied and cheated on you.

Is freaky sex now a good way to make up for the betrayal? I think your WW is hoping that it is. That it will keep you around for a while.

I'm willing to bet that YOU wanted more exciting sex too. But you didn't go outside your M for it, did you?

Do you really think you can find happiness with her, riding this newly found freak train, knowing it was discovered because another man turned her out while she was married to you?

Shes clearly crazy. You should run as far and as fast as you can.

What did she do to make the sex more exciting? What did she suggest?

Seriously this is a bullshit reason. I was listening to a podcast yesterday about this on Dan Savage's podcast - women's libido works a lot different than men's in the sense that they get bored quicker - but just because they get bored doesn't mean they should step outside the marriage.

The appropriate thing to do is to spice it up, to get you on board and try different things.

OK here comes some hard truth that may be a bit of an eye opener for you.

Nothing you did or did not do lead her to have an A. PERIOD. She chose to do what she did because she is a broken person, just like every other wayward in the world.

She said the other guy was the complete opposite of me - he turned her on a lot BUT the sex with him was awful (she said with me the foreplay was non-existent but the sex was good when it did happen). She said she liked being grabbed, treated like a goddess and made to feel dirty. He would give her tasks to do and directions to follow and what to wear and how he would fuck her everywhere and pull and grab and slap her and do it all over the hotels and apartments and public places and would be very vocal about it.

Translation: I got off on the ego kibbles and attention and being made to feel special. What is we say about toddlers bad attention is better than no attention?

She is placing all the blame squarely on your shoulders, not her own, where it needs to be. I don't care how good or bad the sex was in your relationship, that isn't why she cheated.

You stated that you are ready to walk. So why are you doubting yourself now. This isn't remorse, this is bargaining, and gaslighting from her. If you do this, we can be happy, If you had done it all along I wouldn't have cheated.

It's the whole Madonna/whore complex thing.... NO it's because she wanted ego kibbles and attention and some abusive douchenozzle gave it to her.

Why is she empty and need external validation, that is the real question, and that is the real problem here.

So...the gist is that she wanted to act out her slut fantasy...and she did with the AP...and she liked it...

Now, she wants you to keep it rolling for her and is trying to P bomb you into picking up where her AP left off.

If that's your jam...you do you. I'm not built in a way that would allow me to do that.

I'm speculating that you are only seeing the tip of this iceberg. As more is revealed, you will likely find out some rather disturbing facts...

Its not that uncommon a rationalization for an A as you might think. But it still does not get to the core issue. Why not try to figure how to spice up her sex life with you? Why turn to someone else? She really needs to delve into this and figure it out if she hopes to be a safe spouse for you or anybody else. Your marriage vows are still in tact when you are bored having sex with your H.

[This message edited by fareast at 2:05 PM, February 20th (Thursday)]

Remind her “The point is that it wasn’t the state of the marriage that made you cheat, it is a character flaw in you.”

One of the best quotes I read here

“ If you want to see ugliness, watch the actions of a weak person seeking to minimize their shame and preserve a core bereft of integrity. Pitiful desperation. Best thing to do is to not throw them a life line, until you see humility.”

It would probably be a little better continuity-wise to keep all your posts on one thread. But having reviewed your other posts... I think you can throw the bullshit flag. It sounds to me like she's scrambling to find a better excuse because her last one got shot down in flames.

She keeps saying that her love for me would overcome everything and she would prove it and make me happy and she wants to have kids with me and the affair was a mistake because she felt emotionally abandoned and this guy came in at a vulnerable point in her life and I would like to believe her but I don’t know if she is saying all this because I am the “safe choice” - I make significantly more than her and provide all the life comforts and going through separation would be extremely traumatic for both of us (more for her since she would be the reason)

So, her first blame-shifting excuse didn't fly because you ended up telling her you wanted a divorce. NOW.. the sex was too vanilla, but the AP wasn't that good at it. Which doesn't explain why she kept going back for FOUR months. And yeah, it's a bit insulting to you on the surface, but the layer underneath is the enticement of much kinkier sex in the offing. Basically, pussy-bombing.

Also, in that paragraph above is the more mercenary part of her motivation. Now, that's NOT to say that her claims of love for you aren't also true. It's not possible for any of us to determine that. But, clearly there's another agenda. At 36, even if she got pregnant today, her pregnancy would be considered "geriatric". IOW, the biological clock is ticking down. And then there's also a significant change in her financial outlook.

I'm not telling you what to do, but YOU have lots of time to decide whether or not you want to be a parent and who the mother should be. And because it typically takes 2-5 years to truly heal from an intimate betrayal, you would be wise to wait and see how you feel after that healing is accomplished. If you choose R, it takes TIME to evaluate whether the WS has made the real changes necessary to repair their broken character.

Anyway, cheating is about the cheater. It was never about you "emotionally abandoning" your WW... and it's NOT about your lovemaking either. There's NOTHING that you could have done (or not done) which can make another person abandon their own value system. IOW, when a person BELIEVES in faithfulness, they don't behave in ways which don't support that belief. Your WW is still full of crap and making excuses.

Strength to you as you process.

was afraid that she was frigid and thus she went along with her affair. She initially did not plan to sleep with the other guy but once they connected a bit she decided to try it out to see if it was indeed what she wanted. She said the other guy was the complete opposite of me - he turned her on a lot BUT the sex with him was awful

You will soon begin to realize that this entire narrative is complete hyper-rationalization spin mode horseshit. It’s not true. Not a single word of it.

1. She was “afraid” she was frigid so she needed to jump in the sack with another man — what, as an emergency cure?

2. No adult woman enters into a relationship with an adult man without contemplating sex with him.

3. “The sex was awful.” They all say this. It’s always a lie. Same with “he had a tiny dick.”

The truth is she knew she wasn’t fridgid — after all, she was frigging her own brains out on the bathroom floor and humping her pillow like a jackrabbit

The truth is she was attracted to this man, he made her tingle and she thought about having sex with him almost instantly.

The truth is that the sex was exciting and pleasurable.

This woman sounds like she has a personality disorder. She’s a deeply screwed up individual and now you’re left with the prize of a “wife” who willingly and wantonly sexually subjugated herself to another man repeatedly and joyfully.

Sounds like a pretty raw deal to me.

And boy oh boy the last thing you need to do is have kids with this crazy lady who was entirely fine with being the AP’s S&M sub.

[This message edited by Thumos at 2:30 PM, February 20th (Thursday)]

He would give her tasks to do and directions to follow and what to wear and how he would fuck her everywhere and pull and grab and slap her and do it all over the hotels and apartments and public places and would be very vocal about it. He would keep her excited all through the day with texts, directions and tasks and pictures and she felt dirty and aroused when she would meet him in the hotel rooms.

karatekid143

So your wife has always been submissive but put on an act of being "the innocent girl". You had great sex for the first couple of years but then she got bored with vanilla sex and cut you off for years.

Let me get this straight. She was afraid of losing you if she asked you to talk dirty. But was secure enough to cut you off from sex and have an affair.

As others have sad you should run.

If you stay I see a problem. Even if you do everything her boyfriend did you will still be at a disadvantage. If you want to be a bad girl sex with someone forbidden is a turn on.

I can see you a decade from now with kids and she bored again because you’re her husband and she’s supposed to have sex with you.

Then being a nice guy you will stay for the kids. If I were advising your wife I would tell her to get pregnant ASAP to keep her meal ticket.

CONDOMS

[This message edited by Michigan at 6:47 PM, February 20th (Thursday)]

Do you ever wonder how seasoned poster read posts here in JFO?

This is how we do it. Ready?

Wife (36F) cheated because [ignored] Advise?

You want to know why?

Because a well adjusted adult will encounter all manner of conflicts, frustrations, disappointments during a marriage.

Then a well adjusted adult communicates his unhappiness with his or her spouse. The vast majority of the time, a solution is found, a compromise is reached and the well adjusted couple go on being happy again.

Sometimes, a compromise cannot be reached and divorce ensues. It is sad but the reality of life.

That’s it!

Now, what does a broken spouse do when he or she feel unhappy, frustrated or unfulfilled? They have the perfect solution! They pretend everything is ok with their spouse, and go get their need fulfilled elsewhere. They get to have the cake and eat it too! And if they get caught, well, it’s somebody else’s fault.

A well adjusted adult would say: that’s a terrible decision. It doesn’t fix anything and a bunch of people get really really hurt... really really hurt. How can you fix the marriage by breaking it? If your car has a flat tire, will it help if you hit the car with a baseball bat? Probably not.

Can you guess whether your WW belongs in the "well adjusted camp" or the "broken camp"? I suspect I do

So, at the end, it doesn’t really matter what follows the because. It’s not very interesting. We already know the because here at SI. It’s because the Wayward is broken, in 10 different ways.

WaxOnWaxOff,

You said AP traveled to NY to meet with her several times, were you gone on say business when this happened?

ShutterHappy

Do you ever wonder how seasoned poster read posts here in JFO?

This is how we do it. Ready?

Wife (36F) cheated because [ignored] Advise?

I'm not seasoned, but OMG, this is so fucking true.

It's like a bank robber justifying robbing a bank because his mother wouldn't give him an allowance. It's rationalization because no one wants to be the bad guy in their personal film of their lives.

A well adjusted adult would say: that’s a terrible decision. It doesn’t fix anything and a bunch of people get really really hurt... really really hurt. How can you fix the marriage by breaking it? If your car has a flat tire, will it help if you hit the car with a baseball bat? Probably not.

Yup.

If your solution for making yourself happy entails ruining a person's life then maybe you should discuss the 'solution' with that person.

It's unbelievable selfish.

Karate, back on your other thread, I told you to kick her to the curb if she ever blamed you for the A. This is what blame looks like. She did it because sex with YOU was bland. She did it because YOU missed her subtle hints. She only gave those sublet hints because she was afraid of YOU and YOUR reaction. She wanted YOU to probe her more. Nothing positive has come out of this conversation with her and in fact, things are even worse than before because your WW is blaming YOU for her A entirely.

At no point did she take accountability for her CHOICES not to improve sex with you and to step out for YEARS. At no point did it sink in for her that giving your partner subtle "hints" and actively lying to them (aka saying she likes vanilla sex) makes HER the asshole and the one in the wrong here instead of you for not reading her mind. Think about how ridiculous and childish that is. She betrayed you for years all because she couldn't have an adult conversation with you.

Life is full of boredom, changes in preferences, and uncomfortable conversations. If this is how she reacts to just one uncomfortable conversation that needed to be had between you, how the hell is she going to react to the hundreds of uncomfortable conversations she would need to have with you in the future? What about the natural decline in sex that happens when you have kids? How about any number of stressful situations on your future marriage? Sounds like if you let this go and stay with her, she will almost certainly cheat on you again because according to her, the smallest relationship problem, one that so very easily could have been solved in a matter of minutes, is a justifiable reason to cheat for years. I'd hate to see what a big relationship problem would justify in her eyes.

She said the other guy was the complete opposite of me - he turned her on a lot BUT the sex with him was awful (she said with me the foreplay was non-existent but the sex was good when it did happen).

That's one of the biggest lies we hear around here. And even if it is true, so what? The lead up to the sex was great. Great enough to warrant betraying you for three years. Great enough that she didn't even bother to try and improve your sex life despite being the better lover.

I agree with the other posters here.

So she wasn't satisfied with her sex life with you. So that means it was OK for her to get with another man to 'see if that is what she really wanted'? WOW what selfish entitled thinking. Did YOUR feelings ever play into this?

Do you really want a wife with such little integrity?

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 6:44 PM, February 20th (Thursday)]

When a marriage cannot be reconciled, fight hard for your rights. Take no prisoners.

If a marriage can be reconciled and if the betrayed still loves the betrayer and wants to try, then I am all for that as well. Not every betrayal is an automatic divorce.

If I read your post rightly, you seem to see some hope- possibly. I mean, clearly she is broken, blame shifting... and needs to work on herself as well as prove herself to you. As to the sexual arena, that seems to be getting better.

Take your time. You say you re confused. Wait until you are not so confused and move forward accordingly.

Posts from your other thread.

We met in 2011 at work when she was 27 and I was 25. We fell in love, had great sex everyday,

What you posted above is inconsistent with her description that you were boring in bed.

This abortion put a huge dampener on our sex lives - she stopped having sex for a long time and when she did, she would be very stiff and she rarely had orgasms.

May be that guilt from the abortion led to her distancing herself from you and, thus creating the "dead bedroom".

So, before going to school, we decided to get married to make sure we survive the 2 years of long distance relationship while I worked in West coast and she went to school in East coast and we got married in 2014.

You should have your wife take a polygraph test. Some of the questions should be related to whether or not she has had previous affairs. Were any physical? Did she cheat on you during these 2 years?

During her time in grad school. I noticed the biggest change in her - she rarely appreciated me visiting

Was she cheating on you during this time of separation? Polygraph.

She explicitly said “we can’t have sex while you just come here for a couple of days”. She generally seemed disconnected. I chalked it off as being busy with school but now I strongly suspect she cheated on me while she was in school if not physically at least emotionally.

Did she cheat then? Physical?

her career floundered

So, you are her meal ticket. You are the "beta" provider. How will her lifestyle be affected if you divorce her?

I had a lot more money and we travelled a lot and did adventurous things but I felt she was mostly dragging along instead of contributing to the relationship.

Was she giving herself, emotionally or physically to someone else, which led to her letting her feeling for you die?

We slowly went from once a week sex to once in a quarter sex and our bedroom was essentially dead. I made myself busy by putting even more time to my work. Even when we travelled to romantic destinations, we rarely had sex.

Another indication of cheating?

In late 2019, she got a remote project back in West coast and I again supported her to do this even though her family was against this. This involved working and traveling a lot to the West coast while I worked in NYC. Even when she was in NYC, she started being very secretive and protective about her phone and would spend hours in her room or in her bathroom. She started coming home very late and did not even come back home some nights and said she was tired and got a hotel and I believed her (lol).

As you know, definitely signs of cheating.

Possibly, her loss of her unborn child, with your consent/support, caused tremendous damage to her and to her feelings for you.

She should have been open and honest with you and not self-medicated herself with infidelity.

Her story now seems like ex post facto justification for her betrayal and infidelity. She seems like she is trying to "cover her ass" by love bombing you. She is trying to save her lifestyle and financial stability. I certainly could be wrong, but there seems like much, too much, smoke being blown in your general direction.

You are young, you have no kids, she is a cheater, cake-eater, liar, etc. Her story, quite frankly, does not pass the smell test. It smells like bullshit.

You don't have to decide to divorce her right away. I would do the 180, separate your finances (see how she reacts to being cut-off from your money). Do NOT have (unprotected) sex with her, get tested for STDs, do not let her stay in the marital bed (at least for a while).

Tell her that you need several months to get over the shock of her betrayal and to determine what you want to do. During that time, observe her actions. See if she can keep up the show of contrition and remorse for more than a few weeks. Determine if she can prove it to you that she is safe for you in the future. Only taking the time to observe will give you the answers that you are asking yourself. Oh, and have her polygraphed to determine the depth of her bullshit (IMHO, but i hope I'm wrong). Get her to go to individual counseling to begin to fix her broken morals and values. She needs to find out her WHY she was able to betray you.

Good luck. However, I think you can do much, much better than stay with her problems/issues/bad acts.

[This message edited by PassThis at 4:42 PM, February 20th (Thursday)]