SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

My husband and I have been together since College, 2 decades now and a few months ago I found out he had met a couple of girls in chat rooms, I saw messages in his phone and I confribted him, he said it was nothing serious and he would stop. Now after digging through all his emails,computer etc I finally find out that not only he charged a few month ago but also in 2014 when our daughter was just a baby. I am devastated. I have seen the photos these girls sent him and the WhatsApp texts that they exchanged- he has kept all of them in a external hard drive. He says that all that is the past and will not cheat again. He says he loves me so much and wants To be happy again with me and our daughter. I don’t trust anything and I know that with one iof them he has kept in touch by emails, in a very casual friendly way because they share the same profession and they discuss work matters. She lives abroad but I still think she is very much a threat and I know he loves him and doesn't care he is married. The other girl who he had sex with shut him down as soon as he revealed he was married so I am not as worried, I want to give him a chance on one hand but on another I feel

I would be happier by myself. I am still very attractive and I think I deserve better, my daughter also deserves better. I also asked him to delete all the photos and messages but he is reluctant because he may want to look at them when he is older knowing that someone else apart from me was interested but that hurts me terribly. I cannot sleep, I am losing weight and I cannot talk to anyone cause I am embarrassed. Somehow I wished he had left me for one of them, it would be easier to start my life again. Instead we carry on being a couple, intimacy is great but in my head I hate him and I hate myself for putting up with him, does it get any better with time? I am lost and desperate. Natalie

I'm sorry you're here. This is the best club that you never wanted to join. Take good care of yourself. Make sure to try and eat something and drink plenty of water.

It can get better if your WH puts in the work but instead he's keeping mementos and mourning the OW. You can't move on and heal while he pines after her in front of you. And you don't have a guarantee that he won't do this again if he thinks his A has any legitimacy and ignores your pain from his actions. Your gut is right. You DO deserve better. Your DD deserves better. You are young and you still have plenty of opportunities outside of him and this broken marriage. So don't be afraid to stand up for yourself and demand more from him.

Infidelity is traumatic. It's abuse. Some of our posters here have been diagnosed with PTSD or even manic depression because of infidelity. You can't just stuff down your feelings until it goes away. You have to work through them. If your WH won't help you heal and isn't working towards R, get a good IC. Get to a good place for yourself. If he's still not doing the work, you can move on without him.

I'm sorry you find yourself here but you will get very good advice. First, your husband is not sorry or remorseful. He is sorry you found out his secret - but refusing to delete tells you he has no concept of your hurt and pain. Please look in the upper left hand corner and go to the Healing Library - read there (particularly about the 180). You don't have to make any decisions yet, take care of yourself - eat small frequent meals and stay hydrated. Do not be embaressesd - you did nothing wrong. If you have a friend or family member you could tell, don't feel like you have to keep his secrets. Sometimes when a cheater sees themselves through the eyes of others (not their spouse) - it shakes their world and wakes them up.

I also asked him to delete all the photos and messages but he is reluctant because he may want to look at them when he is older knowing that someone else apart from me was interested but that hurts me terribly.

Just when we think we've heard it all, there's a new one. Wow! What a disconnect from reality.

There's a book called How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair, by Linda McDonald, which does a pretty good job of explaining to a WS how much damage they've done. It's a short booklet and sometimes you can find it free for download online. There's a bit of religious content, but nothing that takes away from the work if you're not religious.

Bear in mind that you are at NO obligation to reconcile with a cheater. They KNOW what they're risking. They're just betting on not getting caught. And here is your WS, who's so convinced he's going to get a pass on this that he doesn't even think he needs to delete the photos and messages. So... what you might want to do is MAKE COPIES of those photos and messages just in case your WH decides he's not interested in reversing his rectal cranial inversion.

… does it get any better with time?

Yes. If you either Reconcile or Divorce. But no... if you end up in some quasi-state of healing because your WS won't do the work.

Marriages don't cheat. People do. People with defects in their character which allow their stated values to be out of align with their actions. Your WH might say he believes in faithfulness, but the truth is that he doesn't. If he did, nothing anyone else does externally will affect his core value of fidelity. So, the question becomes, "what's absent from his character which allowed cheating to become a valid choice for him?"

WS's not only have to repair the flaws in their broken character, but they have to develop real empathy for the people they've hurt. They have to figure out why they didn't have that empathy and what kind of void or anxiety they might be papering over which allowed them to shove empathy out the window and put their own selfish desires first. If there's a diagnosis, like bipolar or BPD, they have to find it... and effectively treat it.

So yeah, there's a lot of work to be done in order to not end up in that unhappy place between R and D. And you can't do HIS work for him.

You said that "intimacy is great", but in all honesty, you're not sleeping and you're still losing weight because you're not getting what YOU need out of the reconciliation process. IOW, the emotional intimacy isn't where it needs to be. You don't have to put up with that.

((big hugs))

I also asked him to delete all the photos and messages but he is reluctant because he may want to look at them when he is older knowing that someone else apart from me was interested but that hurts me terribly.

Considering some of these are from years ago, I believe you have a serial cheater and sex addict on your hands. If you wish to try and R, he will need intensive therapy now and a 12-step program for life (similar to an alcoholic). If he refuses, or if you don't want to go on a journey of a struggling addict, perhaps you need to separate from him.

Thank you all so much. I am really scared. I don’t think

He understands the damage he has caused and says just wants to “move on” and leave the past behind but I cannot trust him. I do think there is a bit of sex addiction behaviour in him because he has been involved with one woman after another and the messages between them are so explicit, same as the images. He has always demanded more sex drive from me and after the discovery and trying to work things out we are very active and more adventurous . Don’t get me wrong I still desire him and enjoy what we do plus I think that he finds me now more attractive and some how it makes him forget that somewhere else could be better. But I look the other way and I see a dark tunnel and I think of all the things he has done whilst still saying to me he loved me and makes me feel sick. We will try our best for a while but in my heart I feel the end is around the corner. I wish I was brave to move out for a few days but I cannot leave my little girl on her own. Today we have had a bad day because I found so many messages from those women and he says that if I hadn’t gone through his stuff and stir everything up again and again he would have moved much quicker from his mistakes. But I cannot help it, I needed to know everything so I know what am dealing with. Maybe I should stop obsessing and going through his things and see if he settles and we recover, maybe I am doing everything wrong. It’s a nightmare, I wish I could get him

To go to therapy but he doesn’t want. We did one together and that’s it, he thought problem solved! As if. Thanks again to all for reading my post. Means a lot to me

He has always demanded more sex drive from me and after the discovery and trying to work things out we are very active and more adventurous . Don’t get me wrong I still desire him and enjoy what we do plus I think that he finds me now more attractive and some how it makes him forget that somewhere else could be better.

We call that "the pick me dance". It's where YOU jump through all your cheater's hoops in an effort to "win" him back from the OW, or in your case, multiple OWs.

The problem, of course, with "the pick me dance" is you just might actually "win" it. And the grand prize is an unrepentant cheater who will continue to EXTRACT VALUE from you for as long as it suits him. And when it doesn't, he will DISCARD you and move on to the next victim.

You seem to be looking at this from the point of view that you might be losing something that you think you need. But when you think about it, who needs a cheater? Who wants to live their life as the marriage police, always looking for clues and waiting for the next OW to pop up? And then, after all that, there's still the final betrayal and discard. THAT's what you get when you "just move on from all this". The cheater doesn't do the work and trust can't be rebuilt.

If your cheater is REFUSING to engage in the reconciliation process, he's essentially refusing the marriage. See an attorney and act accordingly. We can't change other people. We can't control them or MAKE them do the right thing. All we can do is to decide what we will and will not tolerate in our lives.

Today we have had a bad day because I found so many messages from those women and he says that if I hadn’t gone through his stuff and stir everything up again and again he would have moved much quicker from his mistakes. But I cannot help it, I needed to know everything so I know what am dealing with. Maybe I should stop obsessing and going through his things and see if he settles and we recover, maybe I am doing everything wrong. It’s a nightmare, I wish I could get him

To go to therapy but he doesn’t want. We did one together and that’s it, he thought problem solved! As if.

Read that part again. This guy is blaming YOU for being upset after he BROKE your trust. And what he did was not "mistakes". Those are CHOICES, hundreds of them; choices to lie, choices to look for and to message other women, choices to meet with them, and choices to fuck them. And OF COURSE, you're obsessing. Your husband, the person you trusted, has plunged you into the worst sort of emotional trauma that we can go through short of losing a loved one to death. But he doesn't WANT therapy. Too bad. Does he want a big, fat divorce?

You only have ONE TOOL in your arsenal as a BS. And that is a flat-out refusal to tolerate any more bullshit in your marriage. It's not you who should be complying with his demands, it's him who should be complying to yours. Otherwise, you dump him on his ass and move on with your life.

What's stopping you from seeing an attorney to find out what a divorce might look like?

He says that all that is the past and will not cheat again.

Yeah, well, bullshit.

You do deserve better.

If he still wants to get his jollies off looking at all the wonderful text exchanges he had with vacuous hotties, let him do it on his own time. You've got a life to lead.

This:

I also asked him to delete all the photos and messages but he is reluctant because he may want to look at them when he is older knowing that someone else apart from me was interested but that hurts me terribly.

...this:

He understands the damage he has caused and says just wants to “move on” and leave the past behind but I cannot trust him.

And then this:

he says that if I hadn’t gone through his stuff and stir everything up again and again he would have moved much quicker from his mistakes.

These are NOT the signs of a remorseful cheater. He barely sounds apologetic.

Whatever you do, DO NOT move out. Stay with your daughter in your house and kick him out. He cheated, he destroyed the marriage. He shouldn't have a say how YOU decide the marriage works from here on out.

You don't have to make any huge decisions now. But he lost his rights when cheated. Serial cheaters are especially bad candidates for reconciliation.

At the very least, kick him out of the bedroom and implement the 180.

Demand he get checked for STDs. You too. Be prepared that you only know the tip of the iceberg and that he will only admit to what you can prove. The fact that he doesn't want IC is further proof that he doesn't really want to change.

You are his Plan B. You deserve better.

So sorry you've found us. Keep posting. We're here.

Edit to add:

You should edit your name from your original post in case your WH finds this site. He may use it to further manipulate you. Stay strong.

[This message edited by squid at 4:50 AM, February 23rd, 2020 (Sunday)]

The ow or any woman isn’t a threat to your marriage - your husband is. I had to tell myself this so that I focused on the real problem, him. And the only person who can fix his problem is him.

I’m sorry for your pain, it’s gutting and so awful. But you will get thru this.

We all understand what you are going through...the pain, humiliation, devastation, fear, but your husband is trying to rugsweep his behavior. A WS who isn't remorseful will rugsweep in the hope that the affair gets ignored and things go back to the way they were so they don't have face the consequences. This will not heal you or your marriage and often makes things worse. Right now, your unremorseful, cheating husband feels like he is in the position of power. He thinks that you will continue to allow him to call the shots and continue to engage in his infidelity. He does not respect you or your marriage. Why should he change when you continue to have sex with him and continue to take care of him? You are rewarding his behavior by doing this.

It is time to take your power back. We say here that you have to be willing to lose the marriage to save it. In order for the marriage to have a chance:

1. No more pick me dance. Read about the 180 in the Healing Library and implement it.

2. Both of you need to be tested for stds

3. Make copies of all of the emails and photos just in case. You want to be able to prove your case if necessary. Do this BEFORE confronting your husband with his new way of life. Keep them in a safe place

3. Go and see attorneys. Know your rights. You do not have to go through with a divorce, but knowledge is power.

4. Inform your husband that you will not live with anyone else in your marriage. If he does not want to comply with what you need to heal, he can get out. If he wants the privilege of being married to you, he will get counseling and the help that he needs, go "no contact" with any other women and deletes all photos, etc. Counseling needs to be for the long term and consistently.

4. No social media. He lost that right when he cheated. All electronics open to your inspection whenever you want. You will have all passwords.

5. He will agree to a key logger on his computer so you can monitor his internet use

6. He will deal with the dysfunction and destruction he has caused in ways that help you heal...see below..

Here is a list that I have seen on this site. People who are good candidates for reconciliation:

• are non defensive

• examine their motives for their affairs, without blaming their spouses

• accept their roles as healers to their wounded partners

• do not resist breaking off all contact with the affair partner

• show genuine contrition and remorse for what they have done

• make amends and apologize to loved ones

• apologize often, especially the first two years

• listen with patience and validate their spouses’ pain

• allow their spouses a lot of room to express their feelings

• respect the betrayed spouse’s timetable for recovering

• seek to assure spouses of their love and commitment to fidelity

• keep no secrets

• do not maintain close ties with those who condoned the affair

• are willing to be extremely accountable for their time and activities

• frequently check in with spouses as to how they are doing

• are aware of and anticipate triggers of the affair

• are willing to get rid of hurtful reminders of the affair

• don’t minimize the damage the affair had on the children

• commit themselves to a long-term plan for recovery, honesty, and Internal (Spiritual) growth

YOU have been the honest, trusting and moral spouse. HE brought this into the lives of you and your daughter. Your daughter needs to see that there is value in standing up for yourself and not accepting abuse at the hands of a partner. This lesson is important for her.

You do not want to give her the message that it is ok to accept being treated with such disrespect and contempt.

If your husband IS a sex addict, he will need to be diagnosed by a certified sex addictions counselor. If this IS the case, it is a long, painful and often unsuccessful road to sobriety. He MUST be the one to initiate recovery and treatment. You CANNOT do this for him. Right now, he is telling you that he is not willing to get help or to value his family. Listen to what he is telling you. Living with a using addict is not what you or your family deserve. It is intense pain, and chaos. Addictions always progress. His behavior will get worse if he does not get help and if he is, in fact, an addict.

Please stand up for your family. If you cannot do it for yourself, do it for your daughter. This man is torturing you.

I believe you have a serial cheater and sex addict on your hands.

^^^This!^^^

Serial cheaters are master manipulators -- they are really good at lying and blame shifting while getting others to rug sweep what happened. This is *exactly* what your WH is currently doing to you. His promises and statements are empty while his actions and attitudes are giving you insight into the truth (e.g. not discarding the emails, trying to get you to agree to just "move on", blaming you for looking at his emails and not seeing any of this as a problem or wanting to go see a counselor for his own issues).

I wish I was brave to move out for a few days but I cannot leave my little girl on her own.

This is all upside down. But that isn't unusual given the fact that you are dealing with a manipulative narcissist. Your WH is currently abusing you emotionally and psychologically through what he is doing. Your body and mind are feeling the effects. He is the one that should be moving out and he shouldn't be anywhere close to your daughter especially based on what he is modeling for her (that it is OK to treat a spouse with a lack of love/respect and that it is OK to use other women).

You're in a tangled mess right now and what you need most is to gain some clarity around how your WH is manipulating you. You don't need to leave right now, but you do need to gain some ability to understand what is happening and to see what your options are. Posting here is a good first step. Reading the FAQs for betrayed spouses, especially the 180 (https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/faq_bs.asp#FAQ11), is another. Once you've gained a bit of strength, you can dig into understanding your position and options more (e.g. a free consultation with an attorney, getting your own IC, etc.)

Ultimately, you need to find a path that stops the toxic, controlling, abusive patterns your WH has you in. But, just as importantly, you also need to think about your daughter as she needs to clearly see that you WH's actions aren't acceptable and that this isn't a norm that she should expect when she is older.

[This message edited by Crushed7 at 9:40 AM, February 23rd (Sunday)]

Very gently...the woman who lives abroad isn’t the threat no matter how interested she is in him. The woman who cut it off isn’t a threat because she stepped back. He is the threat to your marriage. He bowed to be faithful to only you and forsake all others. His affair partners could be any other woman, a neighbor, colleague, the clerk at the grocery store.

As for him wanting to keep the photos, he would be keeping them at his own apartment.

Please take the time to poke around here at the Healing Library. Also set up appointments for yourself for STD checks and therapist if you feel you need it.