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My WW and her AP used to work on same team at a large company. They hooked up initially on a business trip and continued their A by planning their travel together. She has an upcoming trip here in a few weeks and he will almost certainly be traveling for the event as well.

My wife has gone NC with her AP. He once broke radio silence because he couldn't help himself the bastard and my wife threatened to involve HR if he reach out to her again. I found that out because she told me, not because I was snooping (which I do though). They have been NC since - you know as far as I can tell.

She has been working hard on R but my animal brain is worried she will stray. I envision all these scenarios where he finds a way to talk to her and those familiar feelings flood back and then one thing leads to another....

She tells me over and over that will never happen but she has her own concerns. She's worried that I'm going to trigger badly and she won't be here to help me. She is also worried that I will think something has happened with him when it hasn't and I won't believe her. Both are valid concerns to be honest.

Do you guys have thoughts on things she can do while traveling to prove she's being true and eliminate both our concerns? Something that will keep me from doubting and triggering? She said she will do whatever I ask.

Why wasn't quitting her job and finding work somewhere else part of R?

This trip is asking for trouble.

I'd tell her if she goes to find somewhere else to live when she gets back.

She tells me over and over that will never happen but she has her own concerns.

Words don’t matter. What has she done to fix herself?

Is my recollection correct? Your wife is a serial cheater?

Your wife's concern that you won't believe her is valid. Why? because she's very good at deceit.

When you caught her in the hotel with the latest OM (he's married with kids) she basically told you to get lost. It was only after they had their weekend together and discussed their future that she decided she wanted to stay married.

I think the OM's presence at the conference as well as his attempt to contact your wife is a major concern.

The OM sounds like a predator that was not exposed.

Did you ever notify the OBS?

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 3:48 PM, March 1st (Sunday)]

If she goes, file for divorce.

brokenInDenver

Given you and your wife's history, this situation presents quite a conundrum.

You quoted this in your first thread.

I’m scared her focus on reconciliation will wane, I’m scared I won’t be able to move past the pain she has caused me, I’m scared of ever again trusting someone who so easily threw away the most important parts of our relationship. I’m scared how easy it was for her to lie to me for so long. I guess it all comes back to me being scared she will cheat again. More than being scared though I’m still just so fucking sad. I often think of my beautiful wife making love and falling in love with another man all while lying to me.

Just a few days ago you posted in the Wayward Side Forum, Topic: Please Help:

I am a BS and I admit I felt suicidal after D-Day. I bought a gun, had a plan for when and where I was going to do it even.

Less than a week ago, you posted in the General Forum Topic: My wife is still hiding something:

...I'm triggered and we made a huge backslide. WTF. I don't understand the mind of a liar!

Given the current state of your recovery, and since it has been less than two months after your "Brand New D-Day" (BNDD), I think your wife should reconsider going on a business trip where she could (might) have contact with her former OM. She should recognize that it is "cruel and unreasonable" for her to put you through this situation, given her past actions (and recent disclosures) and while you are giving her IMO the extreme grace of a second (third?) chance to reconcile. She may be becoming a different person that she was before the BNDD, but I do think that it is too soon to put that to a test.

You have reported that your wife has been a poster wife for remorse and helping a BS recover. But she recently revealed herself as a serial cheater. Is now the time for her to put this kind of pressure on the recovery? Ask her if she truly needs to go on this trip and why. If she actually does have to, ask her how she will make you feel safe throughout the trip, how will she protect herself from having contact with her former OM (or any other OM that tries to approach her), and how would she feel if the shoe was on the other foot and you were the serially wandering spouse going on the trip where there was (even the slightest chance) of an inappropriate encounter and she was the one left home to worry. She needs to prove to you that she is SAFE for you and clearly state WHY she is worthy of your trust (especially since she was still trickle-truthing you last week).

Perhaps, if she has to go on the trip, you should adopt a 180 strategy for your protection. As before, focus on yourself and how you can live a life when not in the immediate presence of your wife. You know that you can not control your wife. You can only hope that she is remorseful and now safe. This trip may be a good opportunity for her to prove to you that she can be safe and loyal. It is certainly, with her history, a risk, but the payoff may be worth it. Only you can assess the odds.

Given how much hurt you have had to endure from your fWW's actions, is it too much to ask her to skip this trip? Even if she loses her job because she doesn't go on this trip, is that even too much to ask of her at this time? IMHO, skipping this trip is just a pittance to pay on the debt (or gratitude) she owes you for giving her another chance for reconciliation. However, skipping the trip for you must be an act that she WANTS to do for you without any resentment. You should not DEMAND that she skip the trip. You should only discuss how the trip will affect you and how this is an opportunity for her to demonstrate remorse and empathy at this time so near to the BNDD.

I also think that LifeisCrazy really expressed insight on your first thread with:

... understand that people DO change. They do things that they are super regretful about and (some) are capable of recognizing it. My wife often comments that she's a different person than who she was 10 years ago. I have a choice - I can either recognize this and enjoy the marriage we have now or I can live in the past and only see who she was. Well, you know what? I've done some really stupid, mean things in my life. I don't do them anymore because I've learned a lot about myself. Maybe your wife has learned that, too. Not everyone is capable - so only you can be the one to judge her intentions.

You also posted a quote:

You never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have.

In the Reconcilation Forum, you asked @nightmare01:

can love exist without trust?

At the end of the day, you have to weigh all the knowledge you have of the circumstances, including where you and your wife are in the recovery (reconcilation) process. There are plusses and minuses galore involved in your and your wife's decision. I hope you find the best outcome for both of you.

Now, if was me in you shoes, HELL NO! I would be very disappointed (read: REALLY PISSED) that she would be going on this trip at all. What could she be thinking? But, that is just me and just my own thoughts. And, I would hope that she had already decided not to go so that I never had to express myself, except for a huge WHEW!

If she does go, I would also like to send some advice back at you:

I'm not going to lie that [your situation] makes me nervous for you. I can fill in the blanks about what you must be thinking. Lets assume for a moment that [she will tell you] the truth and [she will just be faithful to you on this trip]... If I were a WS trying to rebuild trust you can be damn sure I would call you and check in with you before [socializing]. I'd make sure you were OK with it, I'd make sure you knew where I was going and who I was with and I'd make sure you knew when to expect me [to retire, by myself, in my room]. I'd even take a picture of where I was and who I was with and text it to you. Whatever you need to feel secure that I was exactly where I said I was and wasn't straying.

Having said that... [I would tell her to report to you ]some details like: where did [s]he go, how [much socializing] did [s]he do, who did [s]he go with, how did [s]he pay. You can follow up on the "who" with a phone call. [You get the picture].

Best of luck. Sending strength and support.

[This message edited by PassThis at 6:42 PM, March 1st (Sunday)]

Hi brokenInDenver,

This is a tough question.... I will give you my personal experience.

WH was charged with solicitation for having sex with a prostitute at an out of state massage parlor during a trip a few months prior to Dday (he was visiting his out of state Mother before she died). A few months after Dday he had to return to that State to appear in court. His attorney had been fairly sure that WH could skip that appearance (since he was out of state) and just be represented by counsel. Turns out the judge on the case wouldn't allow it so we find out two days before that WH will need to fly out of state after work the next day and basically be gone for about 48 hours.

I think that 48 hour period was possibly the worst few days I've had in dealing with this infidelity - maybe or maybe not excluding dday. I managed to drag myself to work but when I was home I was panicked and sobbing the whole time. I felt like walking into traffic when crossing the street. It's possible that if I'd known in advance that the trip would definitely happen and/or if we'd been able to come up with a plan to make me feel safe it would have been better.

Based on personal experience I would agree with others' suggestions that if your wife can cancel the trip she should. That being said, I know other BS' have had spouses cheat on business trips and then be traveling again shortly after Dday. So others have managed it. But I would avoid the torture if you can.

Have to concur with GoldenR!

Buffer

I'm a WS so I hope it's ok that I'm posting a reply here.

Bit of background; my wife and I have reconcilled. We're a bit over a year out of the affair itself. And a couple of years out of DDay for the cause of our original separation. So there's trust there and we're slowly building more (I say "we" but obviously the onus of it all is on me).

I've recently had to go for a work-related trip to another country for 10 days. It's not a trip I could've cancelled.

The truth is, there's nothing really that your wife can do to 100% keep you from doubting or worry given the situation (my wife still worried alot). I think asking her to cancel this trip is well within your prerogatives and she should if she can. If she can't? This is some of what I did.

Called twice a day. Once to say good morning and discuss the coming day and once at night to say goodnight and catch up on what happened. These weren't conversations about me. We both talked about our day (communication is super important for any relationship really).

We sent heaps of little messages throughout the day too. And we made sure to talk about how we feel. My wife would tell me about her concerns/worries as well and I spoke alot about really missing her and the kids (and how I felt lonely). In fact acknowleging feeling lonely helped me connect with her and feel less lonely. I actively worked on finding inner validation rather than external validation.

And I also sent lots of pictures detailing little adventures I had (places I seen etc).

That's it. There's nothing magical about any of this. If your wife goes. You'll worry. It's the consequence us breaking the vows of marriage and hurting the ones we love.

In the end, you need to decide whether you have enough trust in her to give her this space. And whether you have healed enough right now to endure the pain that this space will cause you (and it will cause you pain).

I'm sorry..

If your wife can get out of going, she should.

Ideally, without you asking.

If you cannot afford for her to lose her job if she doesn’t go, maybe go with her? Have her text you photos of where she’s at whenever you aren’t next to her.

It should be constant. It should be a ridiculous amount of work on her part. It’s HER shit to clean up, not yours.

Make her earn her way back. It should hurt her to earn her way back even more than it hurt you when she did it

Is this essential travel? Can you arrange to go? (Not to baby-sit her necessarily but let you ease into this travel thing slowly.)

My WH's affair got sexual on a business trip with his cOW. Post DDay 1 I went on the next several business trips. She wasn't even going to be there on the first two, but I was out of my mind and WH asked me to go. The third time, she was going to be there, and I went. He did have to do a dinner, but did not drink and came to the place I was as soon as he could. We also did not stay in the same hotel with the rest of his co-workers (and has not in the three years since).

There were maybe three more trips she was on that he HAD to go on (but again, he bailed from anything non-essential (no dinner that did not include the board, did not share cars, made sure they were not on the same plane, in the same hotel, and actually tried to get in and out in as few days as possible - flying red eyes if necessary. He called and texted constantly and got on FaceTime with me as soon as he could in the evenings, staying on until he fell asleep.

As far as conferences (where the sexual affair started and made it easy to focus on having sex for 3 days instead of actual work), he told his boss that he wouldn't do them anymore. Would it be good for the company if he went? Yep. Does he want to be married to me more? Yep.

Obviously my WH has a little bit more autonomy in his job and the ability to tell his boss no and say no to travel. We have discussed the possibility of what would happen if he had to change jobs and was asked to travel to conferences or do business trips that made me nervous. He said I would go or he wouldn't. I appreciate that he's taken that stance and the initiative.

Currently, any travel he does now, he discusses with me pre booking any plans. He doesn't spend the night if he doesn't have to, sometimes leaving at 4 am and coming back on the last flight out and getting home at 2 am. Just so he doesn't have to spend the night. He doesn't even say it's for me anymore, just that he would rather be at home now and doesn't see it as a nuisance, but a preference.

If her travel is unavoidable, she can make sure to communicate, not drink, cut out social stuff (no happy hours or late nights) and just stick to business. She can text, call, FaceTime and make sure her location services are on. You will still trigger, but ultimately, they can cheat here or there or anywhere. My WH had sex in a parking garage in the hour between leaving the office and picking our son and his friend up from youth group. As a favor to me, because I was running our daughter around in a different carpool. They don't to go out of town, make a special date, get a hotel room or even wear a condom. They are liars and cheaters and will do it if they want to. We can't control them. (Which is the part that sucks.)

Your responsibility to yourself is to try and take that idea to heart. Her responsibility IMO is to do everything in her power to SHOW you that she WANTS to set boundaries, find ways to make you feel safe, and to be a person of integrity for herself and for you.

[This message edited by TX1995 at 9:55 PM, March 1st (Sunday)]

First, breathe. You're getting some extreme advice here. Take what you need and leave the rest.

I am with the others who are wondering if she has to go since the OM will most likely be there. If she does, constant contact might be helpful, checking in regularly, letting you know when she won't be able to and for how long.

My H travels for work a lot. It is necessary. He's away now. He didn't cheat while traveling, per se, but he did cheat while we were apart, so that can be a trigger for me. He texts and calls. We video chat. He tells me (again now) when he's going off grid and for how long.

At the end of the day, you have to let it go. Be at peace with whatever happens. You can't control what she does. Knowing what you will do if something happens is the best you can do, imo.

If she can avoid the trip, great.

Has she told her boss? Many people are pretty understanding. a good boss may be able to minimize and maybe even monitor contact between your W & the ap.

Other people have managed business trips by staying in contact as forgettableDad does.

I recommend agreeing on some ground rules, like, perhaps:

... no more that one cocktail OR 2 glasses of wine at any meal

... back in her hotel room after dinner or by 9 PM if dinner isn't over by then

... saying 'No' to after dinner entertainment with the team or a team member

... video phone calls from her room at night within a set time range....

The timing is awful, but this can be a test. If your W misses and agreed upon time for contact or if she's drunk when she calls, she fails.

If she has to go on this trip or lose her job, what sort of proofs would you like? Figure that out, and ask for the proofs you need.

I can't thank you all enough for your thoughtful responses. Especially @PastThis whose reply was very thorough.

Many of you have asked if my wife can avoid this travel or even quit the job. Truth is, she's pretty high-up in her company and finding another job with equal pay would be all but impossible. It would also not fix the issue as she would have to attend conferences where her AP would also attend. What I'm saying is it doesn't matter that they work at different companies. Also, she's been avoiding travel since D-Day and its starting to affect her job performance. We both realize travel is inevitable for her role and also this is a mandatory meeting. We both feel its time we dealt with this issue.

I like @TX1195's idea of traveling with her. Since D-Day my wife has traveled with me on my numerous work trips. She can work remotely during the week then we usually extend for a long weekend. That has been working well for us. Unfortunately this time, I am also traveling otherwise I'd go with her. Still... its a great idea.

I really like @sisson's ground rules idea and using @forgettableDad's constant communication. I think we can make that work. I know my wife will do anything... ground rules and constant communication make sense. Thank you all so much... I'll let you know how it goes.

BD,

Perhaps, if she has to go on the trip, you should adopt a 180 strategy for your protection. As before, focus on yourself and how you can live a life when not in the immediate presence of your wife.

...or without her.

I think this is an experience that can be useful to you. Ask yourself if it is really worth it to be this afraid in your marriage. Is she worth this? I have observed that R is HARD, even with the perfect WS. I think you should think hard on whether or not these feelings are a fair price to pay to R with her. Yes or no, either answer is the correct one for you.

@here we have a reprieve... my wife's trip was cancelled due to concerns over COVID-19. Still, I'm glad I posted this, I got some really great advice. Thank you all.