SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I'm coming up on DDay anniversary (it's actually September technically but work is slow at the moment) and we've been in a good place...for the most part. I add the last part because 3 things happened in the last 2 weeks that I don't have an explanation for. No DDay or anything like that. The chronology is most recent to the first.

The most recent, which was last Sunday - W got angry with me because I mistakenly made plans that clashed with a family gathering. The gathering was not written on our schedule and I had completely forgotten about it. I canceled my plans and thought that was it. W didn't talk to me the rest of the night and next morning. I came home with our son and she was all "yeah". "no". so I said " what'd I do now? " Well, she lit me up about how inconsiderate it was and how I hadn't even apologized for making plans. My response was that there was nothing about it on the schedule and that I had canceled my plans. I inexplicably went Hiroshima and blurted " well you never apologized for the shit you did to me 2 years ago " (granted, she did eventually but that's in my original posts)

I couldn't believe I said it out loud AND with the kids nearby (we did not involve them other than at 1 point I had a bit of a breakdown and told my oldest that I might not be around as much ). I don't even know where that came from at that time. There was another 10 seconds or so of yelling, but that was it. I've never been a fan of arguing, especially in front of the kids ( I can count on one hand how many times that has happened) so I removed myself from the room.

A few days before that, W and I were talking about various things from when we were younger and she brought up when we had first dated (over 25 years ago at this point). We dated for about 8 months and I broke it off. Apparently it had a huge impact on her and she became depressed. She dropped a lot of information on me that at times I had suspected early in our marriage but was not confirmed regarding whether she had sought any kind of therapy or professional help. She confided that our breakup had really done damage at the time. I felt terrible while she was telling me but then it dawned on me that I had actually asked her mom if she had ever had to see anyone professionally and her mom said no. At that moment I tuned out of what she was telling me and told her that I had asked her mom this exact question years earlier and her mom had told me no. That silenced both of us and we didn't speak for the rest of the day.

Finally (or firstly) - All in all, I would say R has gone well. W has done a lot of work. She has kept me in the loop with even the most minute details of her life. We have engaged in more activities together, have taken impromptu outings, done things with and without the kids.....and yet there I was about a month ago..maybe a little less, walking the dog on what was a really nice day and I heard myself say out loud - "I think I'm done" ...meaning with my marriage. Nothing prompted it. There was not particular trigger. I hadn't even been thinking about it. It just came out of my mouth. Only one who heard it was the dog. It stuck around for a couple of days and then it was gone.

That's all I got. I don't have explanations for any of it, I'm not acting on anything....I think I just wanted to see it "on paper".....

I get exactly what you are saying. I have had those feelings.

Sometimes you just want to Live without the crap called life. No stress. No worries. Nothing to think about. Forget your demanding boss and drama filled marriage and the whining kids LOL.

And then it subsides. But every so often it’s just there.......lurking. I call it the WHAT IF scenario.

What if I had D my cheating spouse years ago - where would I be? Would I be happy? Would I date? Where would my family life be? Would I have regretted it?

Its just a moment. Like your W my H made significant changes. No question in my mind that’s he cheating. Do we annoy each other at times? Yes. Is that something to end a marriage over? No. But he knows if he thinks he can be happier with someone else - please just let me know so we can move on.

Is this how things were for you pre-A? Her behavior seems a little over-the-top. Wanting an apology for a mistake you had already fixed to the point of stonewalling strikes me as childish.

At that moment I tuned out of what she was telling me and told her that I had asked her mom this exact question years earlier and her mom had told me no. That silenced both of us and we didn't speak for the rest of the day.

I find this concerning because I don't think she was being honest about IC during that time. Not just because of what her mom said but because she didn't bother to try and explain the discrepancy. Someone who is being honest would know why their mom would get it wrong or would at least address it. Her silence sounds more like she was caught in a lie. Which brings up so many questions - why lie about this? Was it to hurt you and make you feel bad? If so, how much could she have really changed if she's willing to lie to hurt you and won't even try to make amends when caught?

maybe a little less, walking the dog on what was a really nice day and I heard myself say out loud - "I think I'm done" ...meaning with my marriage. Nothing prompted it. There was not particular trigger. I hadn't even been thinking about it. It just came out of my mouth.

Do you think that now things have more or less settled into the "new normal" of your marriage, maybe it's just not enough for you after infidelity? What exactly would you change if you could?

What if I had D my cheating spouse years ago - where would I be? Would I be happy? Would I date? Where would my family life be? Would I have regretted it?

We actually discussed whether or not either of us would remarry if the other passed away. I said no that in fact, it would be unlikely that I would ever date again.

Is this how things were for you pre-A? Her behavior seems a little over-the-top. Wanting an apology for a mistake you had already fixed to the point of stonewalling strikes me as childish.

No. I think she was more surprised that I had asked her mom about it. Her parents didn't take her seriously when she told them how she was feeling. She really had no answers when I brought it up other than she had spoken to a therapist when it happened. Her parents were pretty old school and chalked it up to breakup problems....

Do you think that now things have more or less settled into the "new normal" of your marriage, maybe it's just not enough for you after infidelity? What exactly would you change if you could?

That's a tough one. I think it is more of ... having the EA still in my head at times? It's just a strange feeling. Like part of me knows things have turned around but that small part is waiting for the phone to light up and see something that I don't want to see.....

If I could change anything? Aside from the obvious (the EA) , I would really like to be able to sit and talk more. We have pretty hectic schedules and we don't get a chance to breathe sometimes. I would also love for W to change jobs. Her hours are awful and it leaves her exhausted but she keeps it because she wants to be contributing financially.

The gathering was not written on our schedule and I had completely forgotten about it. I canceled my plans and thought that was it. W didn't talk to me the rest of the night and next morning. I came home with our son and she was all "yeah". "no". so I said " what'd I do now? " Well, she lit me up about how inconsiderate it was and how I hadn't even apologized for making plans.

I think what Nekonamida is pointing out to you is that your WW is stonewalling you and that's NOT acceptable. If you type into your browser, "Four Horseman Gottman", you'll find information on some warning signs that your marriage is in trouble, per John Gottman. Essentially, there are four things we shouldn't tolerate in our communications with our partner... Criticism, Defensiveness, Contempt, and Stonewalling. You've got at least two of them showing up in the above example, so yeah... it's a problem, particularly coming from a WS. In R, you're trying to reestablish connection, and the Four Horseman are bound to tear any connection you've been building down. I think you might do well to print off the information you find in your Four Horseman search, along with the links recommending how to fix it, and use those as a point of discussion. If your WW can't/won't get involved in solving the problem between the two of you, it might be time to get a Gottman-trained MC.

[This message edited by ChamomileTea at 9:06 PM, June 6th (Sunday)]

It just came out of my mouth. Only one who heard it was the dog. It stuck around for a couple of days and then it was gone.

Dogs are good listeners. And they keep it to themselves.

Now that you said it out loud, is that how you really feel?

Read your previous posts.

IMO, her getting angry over nothing is evidence that she has a lot of deeper accumulated resentment towards you. Her feelings whether rational or not are real to her.

She and the OM shared a fetish that ended when you confronted her. If she has some unmet 'needs' related to the fetish, that would be the first source of resentment.

Now that you said it out loud, is that how you really feel?

I read everyone's replies yesterday. I had written what I thought was a well thought out reply....As I was writing it, I just stopped. The answer is, I don't know. I just don't.

We actually discussed whether or not either of us would remarry if the other passed away. I said no that in fact, it would be unlikely that I would ever date again.

I feel this way too, and I was the original WS in our situation. I think if this goes to divorce, I am just going to enjoy my life with girlfriends, family, and me.

I think I am most concerned about this over the top response to a silly scheduling issue. Does she act like this a lot? Do you walk on egg shells? Is there other behavior like this that concerns you?

And am I understanding that you just caught her in another lie? That is a dealbreaker for both my husband and I. It's no wonder you said what you said outloud.

[This message edited by hikingout at 9:17 AM, June 9th (Wednesday)]

And am I understanding that you just caught her in another lie?

Nah, when I asked her mom if she had seen someone professionally she said no. Maybe her mom didn't know or was just covering for her. Who knows? Not going to throw her deceased mom under the bus.

Sorry Hiking, I didn't respond to the rest of your post. I used to walk on eggshells. Not anymore. Once DDay hit that stopped.

As far as other behavior...she's ALWAYS had a bit of a temper but we also don't let things escalate to that point.

She loves a good schedule. Mostly because there is ALWAYS a family function or one of the kids has something going on....

Nah, when I asked her mom if she had seen someone professionally she said no. Maybe her mom didn't know or was just covering for her.

What difference does it make if she did or did not seek professional help?

WS here. I have a slightly different take on this, so I hope you don't mind another opinion.

Have you ever read any Brene Brown? In her book Rising Strong, she describes an incident at their lake house. The two of them went swimming together, and as they are swimming along, Brene starts to feel feelings of closeness with her husband, and tries to engage him in conversation, hoping to connect. Her husband keeps responding with polite but curt replies, and then swims away. Brene starts to feel as if something is wrong. Why does he keep swimming away and not engaging? Does he not love her anymore? Does she look fat in her swimsuit? What's wrong with him? Long story short, after they get back to shore and she shares her feelings with him, he reponds that had nightmares the night before about them and the kids drowning in the lake, and he was having a massive panic attack as they swam. His shortness with her had nothing to so with the stories she was telling herself, not even a little. He had one story going on in his head, and she had another, in though they were both in the same place at the same time doing the same thing.

My wife and I just had a similar experience this past week. I'll skip the details to keep this short, however the upshot of the story was that I had completely misread a situation (mia culpa), and like Brene, interpreted the situation from my own point of view, without really understand what had actually occurred. But it took us a while of talking before I realized that we were playing a game of "who's on first". Once I understood that "Who" was a person, not a question, it all fell into place.

Anyway, my point is, when people argue about the dishes piling up in the sink, it is rarely the dishes that are the problem. It's the feeling of not being respected, cared for, and thought about, that makes us so angry.

It sounds to me like there is something else in this mix that hasn't been discovered yet. Your wife overreacted to this event, yes, but the mere fact that she blew up so badly is a sign (to me anyway) that something deeper is going on. In fact, if I had to guess, it sounds like something triggered her. She got angry at you (and I'm sorry you had to bear that, you really didn't do anything wrong, and it's a lot to ask of someone to be understanding of the spouse that cheated on them) but my guess is that her anger is misdirected. She might be angry at herself for not getting things on the schedule like she should have. Or maybe she was under a lot of pressure about this event and hadn't really shared that with you? Or maybe it triggers her to remember a time in her life when she felt unseen, unheard or uncared for by someone else (A parent maybe? A family member) and she reacted towards you, but the response was really an echo of something long since passed.

If you happen to feel that it is still worth the effort, than I would suggest taking a walk together, and discussing what was going on in her head that day, and why she blew up over a simple scheduling mistake. Don't allow it to go into a finger-pointing exercise. Focus instead on "what were you feeling" and "why do you think you felt that way" and "is it bringing anything else up for you?". Arguments such as these can be opportunities for growth and closeness sometimes, if we want them to be. Make sure to share your feelings as well. Make it clear that this was a trigger for you too, as it reminds you of how you felt when she cheated on you, and that R is not going to work unless she learns to disengage and discuss her feelings.

She can't open up to you until she learns to open up to herself first. Sometimes we get so used to the walls we've put up that we don't even see them anymore, so it can be helpful for others to point them out.

I realize you don't owe her anything, and if you are truly "done" as you said, then feel free to ignore my suggestions. I just wanted to offer another viewpoint in case it is of any value to you.

What difference does it make if she did or did not seek professional help?

Considering we both had to deal with counselors when she cheated, it makes a difference in whether or not she had sought counseling in the past. There was a specific incident that caused me to ask her mother and her mother said no, while she had already sought counseling in the past. The incident in question was not long after we were married and we had a huge blowout and she threw me out. (then proceeded to text and call me all night). All this was was a discrepancy in what I had been told.

Anyway, my point is, when people argue about the dishes piling up in the sink, it is rarely the dishes that are the problem. It's the feeling of not being respected, cared for, and thought about, that makes us so angry

This is fact .

I appreciate your input DD. While I absolutely think saving our marriage is worth it, I just don't know if I have it in me anymore. I think that is where I am right now.

I wanted to follow up . Not much to say, but I took some time off from work. Did some stuff with the kids, W and I had a couple of dates w/no kids, had friends over for a party.....

I came very close to just saying I'd like a divorce. I'm not even angry. I'm not upset and I don't even know if I'm getting in my own head. The dog wasn't even around for me to bounce things off. W and I were just watching TV and it came into my head that I should say it's over.

I am really fucking lost right now.

I'm not even angry. I'm not upset and I don't even know if I'm getting in my own head.

The opposite of love is indifference. You're there, from what I can see. Perhaps not quite ready to acknowledge this to yourself, though.

If you're not sure, perhaps you should get into IC and figure out what you want.

I agree that this sounds like indifference. It sounds like her behaviors and actions after DDay may have been the nail in the coffin for you. The affair may not have been a deal breaker but the continued lies, sketchy behavior, broken boundaries, and less than stellar attitude since may be insurmountable.

I came very close to just saying I'd like a divorce. I'm not even angry. I'm not upset and I don't even know if I'm getting in my own head. The dog wasn't even around for me to bounce things off. W and I were just watching TV and it came into my head that I should say it's over.

What is holding you back? Your commitment to the M? Your children? Something else? Can you explore this?

I am really fucking lost right now.

Are you sure about that? Perhaps you have found your path, but you are having trouble accepting it? Ending a M is rarely easy. You seem to be struggling with the decision, which is normal.

The episode you described where your WW attacked (yes that is the right word for it) you over the schedule conflict, is this a common occurrence? She very clearly overreacted. The fact that she could not see that is very telling. Has she apologized to you yet for the overreaction? If not, this too is very telling.

well you never apologized for the shit you did to me 2 years ago "

Clearly you are not over the A, R is not resolved and you still harbor resentment. On a side note, if you didn't say "affair" or "cheated" in front of the kids, it should be easy to explain as something else, if you so choose. Again, your WW attacked you and you reacted. From what you describe, it doesn't sound like it was out of line or "Hiroshima" as you describe. Mentioning that you still have concerns over the A should not be forbidden.

2-5 years. You're at 3 years after d-day. What you're going through may be normal, or it may be a sign R is not for you, or it may be a sign that youhave work to do.

The anger, grief, fear, and shame that come from being betrayed may go away on their own, but they may fester and grow if not attended to and worked with. What have you done to heal yourself? (Honest question)