SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

See my story for most of the details, but here is a synopsis:
WH (m53) has had an inappropriate relationship (EAP w/o sexting) with his 20yo female coworker since early 2021 when he sent her $600 to get home from overseas (he hid / didn't tell me until the next day knowing I would be upset). She is his helper and they spend 3-4 hours alone M-F riding in a work vehicle. He bought her a $1,000 cell phone but is paying him back (he didn't tell me at first). April 17th, he planned a night out with her, ditching me and our plans to go to a concert, then lying to me until I found proof / text messages between them.
He opened a separate bank account early April and moved his paycheck in late May without discussing it with me. I had to beg him to send me money and now, he isn't giving me anything even though he's still living at home (I'll get into that more below)
July 25th I discovered he's had a Tinder / Match / Bumble account and was taking screen shots of dozens of profiles.
August 4th I found out he was talking to one of the women from Tinder.
August 7th he signed a 12 month lease on an apartment.

I am in IC. He is in IC. We tried MC but were told we were wasting our money as I kept getting "triggered" (no shit, he kept doing stupid shit), and he wouldn't stop doing things to hurt me.
There really is too much to go into but I readily admit it's been a teeter-totter...I tell him to leave, he apologizes, I can't let things go (b/c he's still working with 20yo EAP), he does something else to hurt me, or I find something else.

He's still living here because I can't let him go. It destroyed me to find out he'd actually signed the lease to this apartment. All I wanted was for him to come back to me and the marriage. Yes, I'd get hurt, tell him I wanted him to leave...but what I really wanted was for him to love me again.

In one breath he tells me he loves me and wants to be a better person, but then blames me for Tinder (You told me to leave, you told me we were done), blames me for getting the apartment (we agreed to this...you told me you wanted a "pressure valve" - no asshole, I wanted you to stop being a jerk and work on the marriage), blames me for his "too close" relationship with the 20yo coworker (I hadn't been happy in awhile...you're always angry...who wants to come home to this every night).

I'm trying to figure out why I want him to stay...why every time he starts to really walk away, I feel like I'm dying - like part of heart is ripped out and I'm incomplete? But then I sit here, or at work, depressed, sad, heartbroken for what lost - and knowing he's not capable of doing what I need.

Just to add a little more context:
I genuinely believe he never had a PA - I DO think it’s because she shut him down
We’ve been separated a couple times since April
- at the advice of our then MC, he left for 5 days after what I call dday on 4/17
- 7/1: left after he accidentally sent me a text meant for EAP. Went on vacation for 3 days and when I came back, started sleeping in separate bedrooms
- 7/10: he got on bended knee and begged me for another chance - I wasn’t in the right headspace and kept us separated another week. He ramped it up to 1,000 - cleaned the house, made dinner every night that week, made a cake…but it was short lived when I told him I still needed some space
- 7/17: made the decision to try and reconcile, let him back in the bed
- 7/25: I found out about his Tinder / Bumble accounts, the police made him leave that night and then I left for another 10 days
8/5 - came home and left for vacation without him 8/7…he flew down 8/10

WH is trying to R to some extent.
- He is still going to IC - although his IC was our MC and I feel this was kind of unethical. She also seems to be supporting his behavior and was very Gottman / Ethel Perle in her advice to us in MC.
- he has kept find my iPhone on
- he’s still helping around the house without being asked ( no more cakes tho)
- I have access to his phones so long as I ask. He gets pissed if I just pick them up and I still don’t have access to his work phone - but he turns them over, somewhat begrudgingly, when I ask.
- I learned about checking what apps he’s using via settings>battery and it does appear he isn’t using any dating apps
- I check his Google / safari history and that’s been clean too
- messages between him and EAP have been short / work related with one exception
- he’s telling me more about his daily behavior/ activity with her again

Recent concerning behavior / talks:
- apparently he has started talking to the coworker more again since our last separation. Made it clear they are friends again…not sure how I feel about that, but he’s supposed to be getting promoted next month and she won’t be working with him anymore and they’ll have little contact
- said he doesn’t know why he was taking screen shots and keeping profiles from the dating websites - some of them were disturbing and he said "it was like a train wreck…I just thought they were funny" 🤢
- he continues to flux back and forth between owning his behavior (it was on me, I just felt like doing it) and blaming me for his behavior (you left, you said you were done and I needed to move on)
- he still seems distant / depressed
- I continue to wonder why I keep trying / why I can’t let go…you’d think him renting an apartment would be enough of a hint (even if he’s still living here with me)

So very sorry you are going through this. It certainly appears you are in a toxic and abusive situation. There is never an excuse for physical violence. Contact a local dv helpline or support group. Your WH is trying to manipulate and control you. You need outside assistance to break free after all the years of abuse.

This is heartbreaking to read, I can identify with your feelings here as I have many of the same.

MC was a train wreck for me. Pretty much the same thing happened to me as you are describing, the MC didn't really focus on the adultery, turned things around on me, didn't give the adultery much treatment at all.

I'm afraid I can't offer you any advice because I'm in a similar situation and I'm avoiding filing for D. I mean in my case it is actually helpful to wait because she's earning a salary now, but generally I don't want to D. I would love it if she returned to the marriage, we could both meet with respective tears and contrition, meet each other's needs and rebuild. But it has been 10 months and I don't believe that it is going to happen. But I believe I understand very much how you feel.

One thing you'll hear a lot on this board is that it sounds like you are still "In infidelity" and you sure as hell are NOT "In R"

IC is helpful, but finding the right one is difficult. The process for finding an IC is hard because you don't know who's who until you've had a chance to talk for a session or two, and you're paying between $150 - $225 a session to decide this isn't working out. For a while there I was spending almost $800 a week on IC for my wife and I, plus a session of MC, and IC for my daughter. Very expensive and very little to show for it. I haven't found an IC that I would say I really connect with, and I don't know how to find him/her.

After taking a break for a bit, I'm talking again to an IC. This IC understands I need to heal and grieve, and I want to steel myself as I confront the fact that my WW is not willing/able to return to the marriage. I believe that describes your WH, because he should absolutely sever ties with that woman complete NC. It is horrible to be in the situation you are in. I'm so, so sorry for it.

Among the good advice I've received is for me to establish a very obvious boundary, and that is "I cannot be in a marriage where there is unresolved infidelity." It is fairly loose that there is no ultimatum, no timeline, and no hard definition of what it means to "resolve" but I have found it helpful to anchor myself to that boundary.

I wish I could reach out and give you a great big hug (((hysteria625)))

I am sorry you are in this situation.

We all had the feeling at the thought of D— but I PROMISE you can survive it, and later will truly thrive.

I am VERY concerned about the finances. Get to a lawyer ASAP to make sure you are protecting yourself and your financial future.
You need to be gathering all the records and making sure he is not throwing away your savings. Whether you stay M or D, his financial abuse is just more abuse on top of what he is doing to you emotionally.

He has shown you that he has no interest in accepting responsibility or doing the work to help you and repair the M. The apartment is a particularly egregious act, along with the dating sites. I know the pain you are in. I understand the fear. But he has already left.

Please go to the S/D forum and read the posted fear v reality thread.

Besides your IC, who else knows and who else can you talk to IRL? YOu need support. Have you exposed your H? Does he still work with the AP?

Sending strength -

BarelyBreathing - finances are mostly in order. Our accounts have been separated since late May. I closed our joint CC’s, we have very little debt outside the house and I bought a new car in June. I’ve had 3 different consultations with lawyers and went so far as to retain one, but ended up being completely uncomfortable with her and she was unresponsive. I also decided to give R one more try. We live in a 50/50 state and don’t want / not sure it’s worth a court battle.

Fareast - I keep asking him to stay so I’m creating my own toxicity. I’m not sure how good coming to these message boards is doing as I see people reconciling with spouses who’ve done what I consider so much worse than WH.

Howcouldshedoit - My heart hurts for/ with you. I have a fairly hard ultimatum- if he moves into the apartment, I’m going NC and changing the locks on the house. I never, in my life, wanted to be here…

I’m so sorry for you. I understand your pain. I lived for six months hearing my H say "I want a D" but then changing his mind. Then a few weeks later he would say he wanted a D and the whole cycle started all over again.

I never begged my H to stay. I never tried to change his mind after he said "I want a D" the second time.

Your H is cheating. If he was missing for even 2 hours - I would suspect a physical affair. Maybe not with the 20 year old but sll those apps he was on — were for a reason.

He blamed you for the affairs —. Hell no! Do not accept that. He chose to cheat. Period.

He has decided to live as a single guy and expects you to accept it. Your ultimatum "if he leaves you are changing the locks" is one that is difficult to gauge.

On one hand he continues to disrespect you and cheat. Whether he lives with you or not.

On the other hand he has not left but then doesn’t do anything to commit to your marriage or you.

You are living in limbo. And living in limbo and not knowing the status of your marriage is like living in hell.

Things will only change when you say they change. He’s not changing. He’s not stopping his lying & cheating b/c he doesn’t have to. You are (unknowingly) allowing his behavior to continue.

Things will change when you change. And it’s actions from you that are the catalyst for a change in your marriage.

Here’s an example. You tell him that you will no longer tolerate his behavior. It either stops or he has to go. So he refused to stop lying and cheating and disrespecting you so he leaves.

That was not your doing. It was his. You didn’t throw him out. He chose to leave to continue his mid life crisis party lifestyle with other women/affairs. You didn’t cause him to cheat. He chose to cheat.

See the difference?

I may be off base asking this, but are you sure the apartment your WH leased is for him? He already has loaned or given money to the 20 year old work partner, and you stated they're talking again?

I may be off base asking this, but are you sure the apartment your WH leased is for him? He already has loaned or given money to the 20 year old work partner, and you stated they're talking again?

Fair question - but as part of R, he's kept his FMIP on and I've looked often enough to know he's still dropping her off at home / where she's lived since this started. She doesn't drive / have a license or car either.

You are living in limbo. And living in limbo and not knowing the status of your marriage is like living in hell.

100% - I want it to end...but I want it on my terms and I keep trying to control the outcome / him which isn't fair to either of us

Things will only change when you say they change. He’s not changing. He’s not stopping his lying & cheating b/c he doesn’t have to. You are (unknowingly) allowing his behavior to continue.

Things will change when you change. And it’s actions from you that are the catalyst for a change in your marriage.

Here’s an example. You tell him that you will no longer tolerate his behavior. It either stops or he has to go. So he refused to stop lying and cheating and disrespecting you so he leaves.

That was not your doing. It was his. You didn’t throw him out. He chose to leave to continue his mid life crisis party lifestyle with other women/affairs. You didn’t cause him to cheat. He chose to cheat.

No, I have to be honest, I am willingly allowing his behavior to continue...I am self aware enough to own that.

I need to find my center again. I'd worked hard May / June / 1st part of July on 180'ing and working on myself. CoDa meetings, working the steps, reading literature, both on leaving and trying to work things out. Then he came to me 7/10 and begged for another chance...I was done but then decided to try and give it one last chance - put 100% in, see if things could get better...but then 7/25 discovered the dating apps / all the screenshots, etc. and I allowed it to plunge me into a severe depression.

I'll also note that the reason the police were called 7/25 was because while arguing, he told me to "get the gun and shoot him". I realize it was most likely suicidal ideation, but I'd told him before I'd call the police if he threatened himself. He then proceeded to get one of his handguns from another room while I was on the phone with dispatch. In the end, he just locked it away in his gun safe and the police took statements and asked him to leave for the night.
I was terrified though and took my youngest and the pets to a safe house for the week. While they went back home after a couple days, I continued to live out of my suitcase for another week.

Anyway, just some perspective on why I'm so sideways right now.

- He is still going to IC - although his IC was our MC and I feel this was kind of unethical. She also seems to be supporting his behavior and was very Gottman / Ethel Perle in her advice to us in MC.

Sounds unethical to me, too. My MC wouldn't see us for IC unless we were working on the marriage. Is your MC under the impression that he's trying to R?

You 100% need to be willing to end the relationship if you have any hope of saving it. You cannot nice him into acting right. IMO, a hard 180 is in order.

I'll also note that the reason the police were called 7/25 was because while arguing, he told me to "get the gun and shoot him". I realize it was most likely suicidal ideation, but I'd told him before I'd call the police if he threatened himself. He then proceeded to get one of his handguns from another room while I was on the phone with dispatch. In the end, he just locked it away in his gun safe and the police took statements and asked him to leave for the night.

Whoa. Is the apartment still available? If so, and if an attorney agrees that it's okay, YOU go live in it for a while. This is not a safe environment for you or your child. Did they see all this happen?

[This message edited by 13YearsR at 2:47 PM, Monday, August 23rd]

You 100% need to be willing to end the relationship if you have any hope of saving it. You cannot nice him into acting right. IMO, a hard 180 is in order.

Is the apartment still available? If so, and if an attorney agrees that it's okay, YOU go live in it for a while. Let him have the burden of home upkeep.

From what I'm gathering, he firmly decided Saturday he / we need to separate to "work on ourselves and heal".

I'm kind of pissed he's turning this around now and making it seem like I'm the unreasonable one and he's Mr. "I'm all about the 180" ...I kept begging for a separation in mid-late June while I was firmly detaching and 180'ing...but he kept saying he wouldn't leave the marital home and it wore me down.

I had accepted / was willing to end the relationship - see my post above from this morning - but I decided in mid-July to give it 100% / all after he came to me and begged for another chance.

And I get that I'm in change of my thoughts and emotions - depression is a bitch though as probably everyone here understands. I'm trying to do things for me again - coming here and reading / posting...planning to attend a CoDa meeting this afternoon...listen to a couple uplifting podcasts...

but then I have to go home this evening and deal with him. He says he's separating, and has had the place for over 2 weeks now, but still doesn't have a bed, TV, or any type of furnishings. Last night, after asking him to please leave, that him being there, but knowing he's moving out is hell on me, said "I'll leave when I'm ready". This kind of mindfucking is an in-your-face reminder of how narcissistic he's become :(

The1stWife noted that I'm going to have to be the catalyst for change. I agree.

I would never have sent my child (d16) home if I felt she was unsafe. Plus, our adult child (NB25) lives with us and stayed / talked to their dad and agreed D16 should come home. We also had a meeting with my therapist and his after that incident and we agreed the situation was stabilized.

Could I go stay at the apartment? Sure, but I'm the primary caretaker for D16 who just went back to school (she's also on the spectrum). Getting her to/from school would logistically be more difficult than him leaving.

You're all over the place and that's what's making this difficult, IMO. You want him to leave, you want him to stay, you get pissed when he won't leave, you're hurt that he rented an apartment. I mean, I get it, you want him to stay and be all in, but this isn't the way to achieve that outcome. You have to be willing to detach from him and from trying to control everything if you want to get anywhere.

My suggestion is a hard 180 in the home. Don't act like a wife, don't talk to him like a wife, don't sleep in the same bed. Don't have conversations about the relationship or what he's thinking or what you're thinking. Just business, like paying the bills and kid logistics. Treat him like you would the cashier at the grocery store. Pleasant, but nothing personal.

https://survivinginfidelity.com/documents/library/articles/discovery/understanding-the-180/

This link details the 180:

https://survivinginfidelity.com/documents/library/faq/bs/?FAQ=11

[This message edited by 13YearsR at 3:42 PM, Monday, August 23rd]

You have to be willing to detach from him and from trying to control everything if you want to get anywhere.

My suggestion is a hard 180 in the home.

Thanks - I do appreciate the insight and forthrightness...and I do understand, and I'd implemented a 180 in June / part of July. Then I tried for a full "R" and got smashed again. On 7/26 I left home for almost 3 weeks- it was difficult and I've been fighting depression since. It's hard to muster the energy to 180 when you're having a hard time getting out of bed and worrying about work.

It sucks ass being in this mental hell too...but my mental state is within my control, I just have to remember this...day to day, hour to hour, minute to minute. I can't control him or his behaviors, only myself.

It sucks ass being in this mental hell too...but my mental state is within my control, I just have to remember this...day to day, hour to hour, minute to minute. I can't control him or his behaviors, only myself.

Amen. That's the ticket.

It's hard to muster the energy to 180 when you're having a hard time getting out of bed and worrying about work.

I really feel for everyone who's going through infidelity hell on top of Covid hell. The world is already stressful enough without this added layer.

Take care of yourself first and everything else will fall into place. I firmly, wholeheartedly believe that. What small thing can you do today to take care of YOU?

Hysteria, you wrote,,

WH (m53) has had an inappropriate relationship (EAP w/o sexting) with his 20yo female coworker since early 2021

Is there anything as pathetic as an old man trying to woo a young girl who wants nothing but things and money from him.

You need to get your Mama Bear out and start thinking about your child. This man literally told you to shoot him in your home. A home where your child could be present.

An act that would send you to jail and your child taken into protective custody.

Something is severely wrong with this man.