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This past June 11, I did something that I promised myself (47), and my wife (42) that I would never do. I broke into her email. In her email, I found out that she has been having an affair with a guy (a buddy of mine) from few blocks over for more than 8 months. We have 3 kids: 4, 7, and 12 and the AP has 2 kid: 4 and 13.

There had been so many warning signs, and I must have asked her throughout the affair at least 20 different times if she was seeing someone… and she always flat out denied it. So, because we had been through so much together and because I never doubted for 1 minute that she didn’t love me, I chose to believe her.

These emails had an entire history of their relationship. They were deeply in love one minute and then breaking it off the next. Apparently, he asked her to help him leave his wife. So, my wife rallied her 3 Doctor friends around him and they decided to help him leave his wife. My wife’s best friend is our kids’ pediatrician, whose boyfriend is a Psychiatrist. The third doctor was the pediatrician’s psychologist friend. The psychiatrist and psychologist each took him on as a patient and would then discuss their sessions with the pediatrician who in turn would fill my wife in. All this in an attempt to more quickly give him the strength to leave his wife. Together, they formed a 5 person A-team on a mission to break up both marriages, with the pediatrician at quarterback.

However, despite all this professional help, the AP did not leave his wife. After a whirl wind start of illicit/secret love and sex, the relationship became toxic and he wound up manipulating my wife. He kept stringing her along but always gave her enough to stay. Probably did the same to his wife, too. I saw in email the several times that she tried to break it off, but he would always somehow convince her to give him another chance.

She was convinced that my children would be better off after his wife and I were discarded and she bought into this this Brady Bunch fantasy world of a "fun, blended bonus family with a fun grandma /cook (her mom) and 8 stockings on the chimney." But, the relationship was still super toxic. He was in constant therapy, drinking heavily, and a joke of a man. The kind of married man that would secretly seduce his buddy’s wife right under his nose. But, despite my wife physically driving him to an attorney to file divorce papers in May, he was never able to pull the trigger and called the attorney the next day to tell him not to file.

When I confronted her after reading the emails, she screamed "but I love him, I can’t leave him, he needs me!" She became an emotional wreck. In a panic, she called him from several phones and couldn’t get him. He finally texted her back saying "this is NOT an emergency." So, she called his wife, met with her, and gave her a 20k view of the affair. The relationship was immediately over.

The day after I found out, he asked if he could come talk to me. He arrived with a super cocky attitude and was offended that I didn’t offer him a drink. While attempting to leave, I beat him to a bloody pulp in my front yard…. But not so bad because he was able to drive home and call the police, who came and spent 2 hours talking and taking photos. Charges were never filed and my wife was super excited that this happened and super turned on that I was willing to fight for her. She was suddenly in love with me again.

We spent the summer doing marriage counselling and we got to the root of the affair. How she felt I was disinterested in her and how I was no longer fun. All I cared about was working out, eating healthy, my work, and my kids. More importantly, however, she claims that some events that happened during a family vacation with my sister’s family zapped her back into the emotions she felt when I left her when she was 3 months pregnant with our oldest (12 year old). She was married to another man when we met and I quickly got her pregnant. I was confused and questioning if the kid was really mine or not, but after 3 weeks I came to my senses and begged her to take me back. It took me until our daughter was 6 months old to win her back, but ever since then she’s always felt pain because I abandoned her. She was never really able to forgive me for it and it consistently came up several times a year since. This would always be her nuclear option that she would drop when times got tough. I guess I can accept my side in what lead her into the arms of another man during the pandemic, but I do have some reservations. In my heart, I think the abandonment thing is just a way to blame me, but I feel so bad for doing that to her. But don’t want to get off on a tangent.

However, she stopped going to counselling in September and wants to take care of herself. Since the affair, she has spent a RIDICULOUS amount of time stalking the AP, his wife, and his family. She also spends tons and tons of time talking about them to her pediatrician friend. The stalking has slowed down significantly over the past several weeks, but it’s still there…. As recently as this morning when she showed me a pic of the AP and his wife on vacation in Miami. I could tell the pic made her upset, but she refused to admit it.

For most of the time since, our relationship has been better than ever. She looks at me and acts like she is deeply in love, she has been super committed to me, and much more willing to meet my needs than she ever has before. Plus, the sex is better than it’s been in years. She has expressed sincere regret for the affair and disgust in herself for getting sucked into it. However, she seems to blame the AP much more than herself. She’s also INCREDIBLY mad at the AP’s wife for her response to learning about the affair. Or at least that’s what she says. I’ve never seen more hate in anyone than her hatred towards the AP’s wife.

Despite this, I just can’t seem to get past this betrayal. How could she do this to me and our family? How can I ever trust anything she ever says to me? She calls the affair her "indiscretion with the retarded boy", but it’s much much worse than that. It was a series of several thousand lies and actions to deceive me and break up our family. It was the ultimate act of betrayal and disloyalty.

She’s a school teacher and can’t really afford to live on her own. Sometimes I feel like she’s only staying with me because she’s got no where else to go and because she loves our house and our kids. Sometimes I feel like I’m her Plan B.
Anyone ever been in a situation like this? When I’m 70 and looking back on this, will I regret staying or will I regret and part of me thinks I’d regret leaving?

Am I reading this right, she was married to another man when you men and you had sex with her and she got pregnant...and that was the start of your relationship?

As in, you were her affair partner that resulted in pregnancy and the end of her prior marriage?

Yes, I was her AP more than 13 years ago. She had moved out about a year prior and had another boyfriend that lived across the country. A little bit before her mom came back to stay for 6 months from out of the country, she broke it off with the other boyfriend and she moved back in with her husband. She claimed they were not really "together" and that it was just for convenience. However, after learning that she got pregnant, she told her husband that she was pregnant and wanted a divorce.

That's when I got spooked and told her I wasn't sure the kid was mine and that I didn't want to be with her. Thoughts were racing in my head about the potential that the baby could be her husband's or the other boyfriend, with whom she kept in contact. The other boyfriend was also begging her to come back. I don't really recall all the circumstances with the other boyfriend, though. However, 3 weeks after I told her I didn't want to be with her, I dove head first into the relationship and begged her to take me back.

It took her a while for her to take me back. Before she had the baby, she got divorced and she bought a house 2 doors down from her Ex husband. I kept fighting for her and she didn't allow me to be there for the birth of the baby, but she did allow me to stay in the hospital for 3 nights after the birth. I also took her home and stayed the first few nights at her new house. Things were going very well with us, but her ex was always 2 doors down and it was very tense. If she needed something and I wasn't available, she would call him and he would jump. He was also very friendly with her mom and her mom liked him. After a few months, though, he was completely out of the picture and we were officially back together.

She lived in that house 2 doors down from him for about 2.5 years until we finally moved out of state together. However, after the first few months, I would stay at her place about 80% of the time. (either her's or my place, that is).

So she blames you,and the AP. She has a white hot hatred (jealousy) for the other man's wife. She isn't NC with him,because she stalks him all the time. She continues to be friends with the "professionals "who tried to manipulate the married man to leave his wife. And, during the affair she was deeply in love with him,and even drove him to the attorney to file for divorce. And she chose you,because the OM wouldn't leave his wife,and she loves to be fought over by men(a repeat of her meeting you.)

This woman has no remorse. She has done zero work on herself to become a safe partner. And she actually shows you pics of the AP,as she stalks him, throwing it all in your face.

But..you say your marriage has been "pretty good" since dday?

You may have been working towards reconciliation, but your wife is not. At all.

What consequences has she even had?

How will you feel about this when you are 70? I will say this as kindly as possible. If you allow things to continue as they are..you will feel like a chump. You will regret the way you handled things after dday. You will lose respect for yourself, because you stayed with a woman who clearly has no respect for you.

[This message edited by HellFire at 7:52 PM, Tuesday, November 23rd]

You have posted in a different forum if I am not wrong. The people over there told you that you are nothing but a back up plan. They gave you unfiltered truth. To answer your question "how will I feel about this when I'm 70?", I would suggest you read the thread started by 64YearsYoung titled "Hi everyone! New here and first post". Treat his situation like a snapshot of your future. Below is the link:

https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/topics/655152/hi-everyone-new-here-and-first-post/

[This message edited by balbichi at 8:04 PM, Tuesday, November 23rd]

I know it sounds flippant... so I apologize in advance, but there's some truth to that old adage, "if they'll cheat with you, they'll cheat on you". That's because the cheater typically has not had impetus to fix the mechanism which allowed the cheating to happen in the first place.

We spent the summer doing marriage counselling and we got to the root of the affair. How she felt I was disinterested in her and how I was no longer fun. All I cared about was working out, eating healthy, my work, and my kids. More importantly, however, she claims that some events that happened during a family vacation with my sister’s family zapped her back into the emotions she felt when I left her when she was 3 months pregnant with our oldest (12 year old).

And IMHO, she STILL hasn't fixed it. It looks to me like you two ran afoul of an MC who's still working off the "unmet needs" style of therapy. Basically, if you look back at the paragraph in the quote box above, your WW is telling you how YOU caused the cheating. It's not about her, right?.. not about her character or her integrity or her boundaries. Oh no, her core value of Fidelity is predicated on YOUR actions. If you drop the ball and her needs aren't met, she can cheat. This is the fallacy of the "unmet needs" model. It's not so much a marriage as it is a hostage situation. So, if you're uncomfortable and can't quite put your finger on why that might be, look no further than the MC who validated all your WW's BULLSHIT.

Forgive me if I save some time and reprint an earlier post for you on "unmet needs". It makes me so mad every time I see it I could bite through a tenpenny nail. Please disregard everything that doesn't apply to you.

Your MC is full of crap and you'd do well to fire him/her. Let me tell you how I know...

My own WH went on a Craigslist binge six years ago, multiple partners, various degrees of emotional attachment. He even thought he was in love at one point. But ten years before that, I'd caught him out in some online shenanigans, porn, cybersexing, emotional affair, etc. In fact, I caught him out only two weeks before a planned meet-up. I'd already seen an attorney before I confronted him and I was bent on divorce, but he pretty much cried his way out of it and I settled on MC. As you might have guessed already, we too were bamboozled with the "unmet needs" model of therapy, which sounds so reasonable. I upped my wife game, and did my best pick-me polka, but within a couple of years, he was right back at it behind my back. By the time we reached the ten year mark, he had screwed up his nerve to go live and in person on Craigslist.

Of course, I was pretty shocked as you might imagine. I thought we were good. I thought his "needs" were met. Damned if I hadn't been turning myself inside out for a decade to make sure, right? The more I thought about it, the more I revisited what I knew about the "unmet needs model", the less it made sense. I was doing everything right and he still CHOSE to cheat.

Here's the fly in the "unmet needs" ointment...

Healthy ADULTS don't need to be validated. They validate internally. Healthy adults are self-fruitful in the matter of contentment and life satisfaction, and when things come up which make them unhappy, they address the cause and solve the problem. OTOH, the vast majority of cheaters cheat because they're seeking external validation. They are NOT emotionally healthy. They can't do it on their own. They've got a hole inside them and no amount of external validation will fill it. Certainly, the old and familiar validation of a spouse doesn't get the job done. Our "kibbles" are stale and boring. They don't create enough adrenaline anymore to make the cheater feel special. It's like getting an "atta boy" from your mom, right?

This is old pop-psy which is still being taught in schools and still selling books. But it's bullshit. NOTHING you can do (or fail to do) can MAKE another person throw away their core values and do something that's in this kind of opposition to good character. If you're a person who BELIEVES in fidelity, who VALUES fidelity, you don't cheat. End of story. Because when we truly value something we protect it. The cheater has a "but..." in his values system. ie. "I believe in fidelity, but... not if my needs aren't being met." For people like you and me, we have a "so..." in our values system. ie. "I believe in fidelity, so... I don't put myself in risky situations with the opposite sex." This is the BOUNDARY we create organically. We don't sit around planning it out. It just happens, because it's innate to our character to protect what we value. The cheater doesn't have those boundaries because he doesn't really honor his values. He only claims to.

I'm not saying that your marriage is over or that your WH can't change. What I am saying though is that this "unmet needs" model is NOT going to challenge him to clean up his flawed character. In fact, it allows him to offload responsibility onto the marriage and onto YOU. It's not your job to MAKE him feel (fill-in-the-blank-here). It never was. It's his job to control his feelings. You could have been doing everything exactly perfect for the entire length of your marriage, and he would still have cheated... because there's NOTHING in his character stopping him and he has no coping mechanism to fall back on when he feels unvalidated, inadequate, unappreciated, etc.

It's HIS job to see that his "needs" get met. Sometimes that might mean negotiating with you, say if it's about sex or about the division of labor in your home, etc. But sometimes, it might mean that what he sees as a "need" is unhealthy in an adult, like external validation through attention and flattery.

MC's are there to treat the marriage. The marriage is the client. So, of course they're going to talk about communications, resentments and expectations. The MC doesn't want to alienate anyone, so s/he's looking to find balance on both sides. But marriages don't cheat. People do. The only way your WH is going to make a change that safeguards against further perfidy is by correcting his need for external validation and becoming an emotionally healthy adult whose deeds are as good as his word. No excuses, just honoring the things he claims to value. For that, I would recommend IC (individual counseling) with a therapist who is well-versed in adultery.

The last thing any newly-minted BS needs is to walk into an MC's office, believing that they've come to safe harbor, and being handed a copy of The Five Love Languages or some other "unmet needs" gobbledygook. It would be really nice if we actually did have the power to control our mate by giving them "acts of service" or "words of affirmation", but sadly, we aren't gods who can stop a cheater from seeking out his/her choice of adrenaline rush and new kibbles. Although, this kind of pop-psy suggests that their behavior is somehow our responsibility. The more you dig into this ridiculous line of thought, the more absurd it becomes.

Anyway... sorry for the lengthy post. Nothing fries my ass more than seeing new BS's being sold this bill of goods. I do think that there's a whole lot of motive, means, and opportunity in your WH's story though. It's not impossible that they didn't have sex, but man... I'd have to see a polygraph result to believe it if it were me. Maybe I'm just a bit jaded after my own experience, but adultery happens in about half of marriages and a year is a really long ramp-up.

It is NOT too late to go find yourself a better therapist, one who agrees that cheating is about CHARACTER, and then have another run at this. At the worst, you lose time. At the best, your WW will finally understand that she has to make meaningful, lasting changes in order to be worthy of your partnership.

ETA: Oh, I almost forgot... your best bet is to fire the pediatrician and insist your WW break contact with EVERY PERSON who aided her in her adultery. They are enemies of the marriage, and if she can't have your back on this, you'd do well to see an attorney and file. Remember, she's no good to you if she can't clean up her side of the street.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 8:14 PM, Tuesday, November 23rd]

She's a serial cheater and her cheating on you has nothing to do with you.

The situation is so fucked up, she cheated on her husband with AP1, then with you (AP2), you got a married woman pregnant (have you DNA tested her?) She probably cheated on you with her XH too when you lived near him, because your WW seems to know no boundaries. Maybe this is the first time you caught her.

The other protagonists of the story are also disgusting; her AP (your friend), her helping friends... They should be reported to their professional unions. I hope you kept their correspondence.

I can't say a single thing that is proper in the story, including you a little bit. Nothing good comes out of there. Get rid of all this and try to fix yourself too.

[This message edited by guvensiz at 9:50 PM, Tuesday, November 23rd]

To steal from Mark Twain, "the reader of [this] tale…. wishes [everyone in it] would all get drowned together."

Your WW is a serial cheater who's still fixated on her AP and pining for him, while she's doing all that "stalking" she's still in the A, and yes based on what you posted you're her plan B, she even drove AP to file for D, she would have left you for him, heck she did it to her ex with you so nothing new to her. DNA your kids, consult a D attorney and RUN for the hills !! your WW is light years from being a good candidate for R, don't forget to get tested for STDs, yes she's been playing russian roulette with your health and during a pandemic no less.

What a mess. You shouldn't have gotten involved with a married woman in the first place. Maybe you were led to believe that her marriage was over when you got her pregnant, but she was still living with him if I read your story correctly. Now you have three children and a marriage to a woman who knows no boundaries.

DNA all three of your children to determine their paternity. Next, get rid of your WW. She would drop you in a heartbeat if her AP was available. She is also a great candidate to find someone else in the future.

She is bad news. Her excuses for having the affair are laughable. Your MC, like so many, facilitated a rug sweep. Worse than a totally worthless therapist. But if she has any desire to change, she would dump her enabling friends immediately, apologize to the OBS, and undergo counseling with a therapist versed in infidelity WHO WILL NOT sugarcoat her behavior and come up with bullshit why she cheated. She should do all of these things of her own volition, but minimally, agree to them upon your recommendation/insistence.

I know that breaking up your family would be traumatic for all involved, but you are married to someone who doesn't understand love, is still infatuated with the AP, regardless of what she says, and is guaranteed to cheat on you ad infinitum unless by some miracle she changes. So to answer your question, I don't see the two of you getting close to making it to 70.

she’s always felt pain because I abandoned her. She was never really able to forgive me for it and it consistently came up several times a year since.

There's your future. You'll likely be the same way.

When I’m 70 and looking back on this, will I regret staying or will I regret and part of me thinks I’d regret leaving?

The kids are the only possibly reason to stay. Is that enough of a reason?

What are the odds she'll keep stalking and stay emotionally attached to the OM for years to come? Pretty high, no?

Time to hit the Master Reboot button on your life then take pause and reflect on the chain of events you have detailed. Everything that has happened and will happen is so predictable and is a cascade of consequences resulting directly from one bad decision after another starting with your marriage to an active unremorseful cheater. Stop the madness brother and get off this crazy train.

Lefon,

Is your WW ever honest about anything if she spent $200 for shoes does she tell you she spent $50?

See has created an ecosystem of lies that you live in, blames you for everything, and thinks she is always right I suspect.

If she is a school teacher I would also suspect secret liaisons with other teacher you know nothing about.

Sounds like torture not a marriage.

People like your WW do know how to get others addicted to them however.

I hate to be blunt but I’m going to say your wife is a train wreck.

She was married when you met her. 🚩

She cheated and was madly in love and addicted to the OM. 🚩

She blames you for her affair 🚩

She needs some serious counseling.

And I don’t know how you will feel at 70 years of age. I hope you will be happy — no matter what the outcome is.

The psychiatrist, psychologist, and pediatrician seem to be ethically challenged. If you got their actions right, the probably broke confidentiality and may actually be criminally liable, given your state's laws.

I think bot you and your W need to reboot as individuals. Then if you both want to remain M, together you can reboot your M.

To start, what do you want?

So she cheats on her first husband with OM1. Then she dumps him and goes back to first husband. Then she cheats with you OM2 and decides the grass is greener because she gets pregnant. Then she repeats a similar song and dance with this new OM. How much you want to bet he too was hearing about how terrible the marriage and was and how you were practically living like roommates? Does his presumptuous attitude make more sense if you take into account that she was telling him your marriage was over and done with? She wouldn't even be with you if he had just filed the paperwork.

Your WW needs intensive IC to even have a fighting chance. She's done this THREE times now with a considerable cool down period. Which means a fourth time is inevitable. Especially when she thinks it's everyone else's fault but her own.

Here's a better question - would you regret it if you stay and she attempts to run off with another OM in a few years? Will you look back at 70 and regret signing up for a fourth go around with her madness? Will you respect yourself more if you have higher demands for her and walk now if she doesn't meet them?

What is that expression about reaping what you sow.

OP, your relationship with your WW started on an awful foundation--you were (one of) your WW's APs. She seems to show no remorse to what she did to her then-husband (although to be fair neither do you). And it gets even worse. Not only did she cheat again but she seems to actually relish the drama associated with it. She was excited by the fact that you beat up her current OP!

This is truly a train-wreck.

Hi OP.

You got a tiger by the tail here.

Looking back at age 70 are you going to regret staying with her now? OK, how do you suppose Las Vegas odds makers would place odds on that probability?

Based on her past performance as a wife - HELL YES you're going to regret it. Anyone would be a fool to bet you're going to have a happy marriage with your wife.

Look, she's shown you who she is... why don't you believe her?

She's digs cheating and new relationships, not equipped or wired or strong enough to be monogamous. Maybe you could be happy in an open marriage with her if that rings your bell.

Sorry man.

Lefonquey1,

As I read your post I was reminded of a quote by Drishti Bablani- "The universe does not carry debts. It always returns back to you what you gave it."

You are living in a mess. Clearly your WW is still seeking her AP - despite her claims of wanting reconciliation.

Serial cheaters rarely change, as I learned the hard way. Be on notice if you choose to stay in this relationship you will likely suffer additional D-days.

To answer your title question, you will probably have many regrets.

Good luck in whatever you choose to do.

What’s clear to me is that you are not in recovery or reconciliation.
You are – at best – in dormant infidelity.

It’s like when an alcoholic wakes up with the hangover from hell and everyone furious because he hit on their wives, pissed on the carpet and barfed on the dining-room table. The shame of that action might make him decide to be sober. Only his actions don’t mirror his intentions… He might put the cork in the bottle of vodka, but he doesn’t get rid of it. Might hang dry for a week or two, but come next Friday and it’s so easy to just reach for that bottle.
Your WW obsession with the OM, the OM wife and all that… it shows she’s not over the infidelity or out of the infidelity. It only shows she’s getting other emotions met than the typical infidelity-emotions.

Really don’t think you have to worry about how things will be when you are 70. If something drastic doesn’t change with your WW then it will be she who leaves (just like she left her previous marriage) once the next OM agrees to move in with her. Might be this OM, might be the next. Or the one after that.

Something drastic needs to change…
I’m not going to say it needs to be divorce, but it does sound like she doesn’t acknowledge her issues. Without that acknowledgement no length of IC can help her.

She’s a school teacher and can’t really afford to live on her own.

Not your concern IF this ends in divorce.