SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi SI’ers,

I’m here again, no matter how many times I tell myself or how my therapist helps I always end up back at the feelings bit, I’ve been back here for a week or so so I’m guessing my brain is finally ready to process this feelings bit. My H has and does say he had no feelings for AP, he said he wasn’t attracted either, he says he was aroused and it was sexually exciting. He always says to me, ‘you’ve seen her, she’s not attractive at all’ which is correct. 70% of me believes my husband was tempted, 30% goes haywire and 100% of Bruce thinks Brain should just fuck off!.
I know my H, I know his appetite and I’m sure if he had a desire or had fallen for AP then he would have taken up all of her offers and more BUT I know him only to myself and when he was single, when you are M with kids there’s conflict etc so I think this is where doubt creeps in. Any advice on how I can finally shake this would be greatly appreciated.

Looking back on our M I’ve never really felt safe with H I don’t think, he’s always from day dot been a conflict avoiding people pleaser and loves to be liked, I think he confuses being liked with being respected. His FOO issues are vast and honestly I’m not without my own FOO issues but damn my heart absolutely breaks for my H and how he was raised, the beasts he calls parents and through communism wasn’t pretty, some of the stories he’s opened up about that I never knew are just horrible and the shame that was placed upon him throughout his life is horrible, even to this day he is shamed by his father.
BUT he thought that providing was enough and don’t get me wrong my H is an excellent provider, we’ve never gone without anything we’ve ever wanted or needed but emotionally?, completely neglected, add to this being blackmailed by his parents for 14 years to leave me and the boys and this is where the emotional connect and disconnect has come from in our M.
When I have a meltdown my H emotionally withdraws, this reminds me of the old him and bam I want nothing to do with R because here’s the old him back again.
Add to this loops, triggers, waves and grief and I’m up to my neck in ‘I’ve had enough of this bull shit’.

I have a list as long as the English Channel of behaviours that trigger me that I’m not willing to accept anymore and it pisses me off that I have to sit and explain why I don’t like them and why I won’t accept it anymore and it’s exhausting, it feels like too much.

I triggered badly when a drug addict beggar approached our car while we were having a coffee, he asked for money I said no we don’t have cash, the beggar said he wants food and then my husband pulled out his wallet and gave him money, did he get food?, no walked straight past McD’s and pocketed money. The meltdown that ensued was what my H thought was the end of our M, the absolute weakness and avoidance is becoming a big turn off.

I still struggle to look at him and not feel conflicted, I think to myself how will I ever look at this man the same again?, I’m not sure it’s possible.

We had a lovely day out at the seaside the other day and we went out on the speed boats which was so much fun, as we walked back to the car I was triggered by a shop called ‘AP SURNAME’, I kept it to myself and went along, then on the motorway on the drive home there was a sign, ‘don’t touch your partner’s genitals whilst driving’ my H laughed and said ‘we’ve never done anything like that have we’ I completely lost it and said no but you did it with the fucking work whore didn’t you, I’m glad you have something that’s just yours and hers. He had to pull off at the next service station so I could get myself back together and he apologised. I don’t understand how he can’t see these things, when I asked him why he didn’t think he said because he buried what he did and it was difficult for him to dig everything back up but he said because it meant nothing to him he doesn’t think about it.

Thank you all for listening this was a big one, any advice or words of wisdom will be greatly appreciated.

Honestly, I have no advice on how to shake off those kinds of feelings. Maybe just keep allowing space for them? It sounds like you aren't holding it all in to spare your WH's feelings, so that's definitely good. For me, the intensity didn't decrease until I started to disconnect emotionally from my WH, but I wouldn't recommend that if you're trying to R.

I still struggle to look at him and not feel conflicted, I think to myself how will I ever look at this man the same again?, I’m not sure it’s possible.

It takes a long time until all the emotional chaos and internal conflict settle down. Where they settle (R or D) will depend on a lot of individual factors. I think as long you keep processing, stay honest with yourself, and keep working with your therapist, you'll eventually figure it out.

In the meantime, you've been heard, and you have the support of all the wonderful SIers.

I am going to provide what I think is a little bit of hope because our situations are very very much the same, almost identical. And it is way way way better now after 3 years. I wish I could explain why. That is the part I’m not sure about. It just all bothers me like 80 percent less. The pain is just little bits here and there that are pretty manageable. My WH also said no feelings/also turned down a lot of the offered opportunités and I got proof (taped convos, texts etc. Cuz I was an A plus level spy LOL). Like you said the lady in question, who we call the "other person" b/c I don’t like the word AP was definitely objectively "plain" to look at and trashy and truly would have been an embarrassment for to ever acknowledge publicly. Did he make clear to the AP that he never wanted anything to do with her again?

The last 3 lines of your first paragraph were so validating to read. You said "when you are M with kids there’s conflict etc so I think this is where the doubt creeps in", which perfectly articulated something I have felt all along but couldn’t explain in words. I have always described it as a worry that if my WH was sooo delusional—which he was—then who knows what he could have thought, maybe he believed this POS was just AMAZING & secretly loved her? He was clearly delusional b/c he did things like take the other person to our club where my parents and kids were hanging out. He thought it would be just find that his secretary was his new friend & he was taking her on our boat. Do you ask him what was going on in his head at the time?

My WH also horrible FOO, narc father, shamed him all the time for being too sensitive. People pleasing intensely, even people pleases me constantly which we are trying to stop. He has made some major progress with the people pleasing. Also thought being provider was his only purpose in life. The only value we, his family, saw in him. People pleasing made it harder to get out of the A quickly, took a few months to push her out of the job & get her to go work somewhere else. (Ironically we were also asked for money in our car this weekend but my WH didn’t want to give any and I felt more bad, so maybe that is a tough situation for everyone). Does your WH overtip as well?

As you said, now the stuff he has probably always done (the avoidance, the people pleasing, weakness asserting himself with others-even extracting himself from conversations) drives me crazy. I used to not notice it that much but now I immediately address the behaviors. But he has gotten so so much better. That gives me a lot of hope. Do you think your WH is making progress?

I think an avoidant is always going to be an avoidant. So I did have to decide if I wanted to stay married to one. But, I don’t tolerate him avoiding stuff with me/us. Does your WH stonewall, shutdown, get defensive, that kind of stuff?

i can imagine a much better future now. I also feel completely confident he wants this relationship and he puts in a fair amount of work to counseling, listening to podcasts, keeping a marriage journal, etc. My only worry is what if he becomes delusional again. I see flashes of it when he shuts down when he shame spirals while discussing his A. Whether we make it or not I am also sooo much more healed than even a year ago (its been 3 years since the real d-day). So good luck. Maybe you will start to feel a lot better. It does take an incredibly long time. Triggers are awful and I am very relieved that they are so much less intense now. I can see how that surname restaurant thing really set you off. Was he supportive?

I am sorry you are still struggling. Being only 9 months or so from Dday these feelings are somewhat expected.

Your frustration at his people pleasing is understandable. His family dynamics are deplorable IMO.

add to this being blackmailed by his parents for 14 years to leave me and the boys and this is where the emotional connect and disconnect has come from in our M.

I am hoping your H is willing to get professional counseling. I cannot imagine 14 years of this kind of relationship and how it has affected him.

I think that your expectations for your H are very high and you may need to accept certain things may not change w/out professional help. He has been emotionally manipulated by his family and most likely is doing his best.

But you should recognize he didn’t leave you — he did stand up to his parents. That shows he can withstand at least some of their demands but I’m certain living with that stress is not easy.

Thank you for your response, I appreciate you all.

The1stwife,
Thankfully his mother died in 2016, his father still tries to shame him and manipulate but he’s not half as good at it as his mother was. My H has opened his eyes big time to his FOO issues since couples therapy, there’s still a lot of things to work through but he’s a lot better.

Still confused2022,
My H told me that he never broke anything off with her because he said there was never anything between them, he said he didn’t ‘brake up’ with her it was the lifts home he broke off. He told her on the last incident that he couldn’t ever give her a lift home again because they always eventually end ended up being in this position (kissing/touching) and he didn’t want that, she tried to play it down by saying you’re not a bad man these things happen, it’s no big deal don’t be silly etc.
I’m so glad I got to validate your feelings Stillconfused, it felt good knowing that this morning, I know it’s such a relief when you read something on here and it’s put in to words how you’re feeling, I’m thankful I got to do that for someone else.
I have asked him many times what was going on in his head at the time. The work environment he was in at that time is very toxic, disgusting and to be honest full of people with the morals of sewer rats, he said he never fit in or felt accepted because he’s the ‘foreigner’ so he thought by acting like them he’d be accepted and he’d ’fit in’ which he did. Talking vulgar and having sexual banter is the norm there, everyone spoke like that with her and everyone TBH so he did too BUT she took a shine to him. He said at first he was flattered and it felt like he still had it because she was young, he said the fist time they kissed what went through his head was ‘I wonder what it would be like’.
H tells me that he enjoyed the sexual banter and arousal but once he clocked out of work that was it, he said he never thought about her it was just a laugh at work, passing time, same thing with some of the lifts home, sometimes it was work gossip, sometimes sexual banter and he’d drop her off and that was it, but sometimes he said it went too far and he said nothing went through his head until after he did it, then he would pull away and instantly panic.
He told me after the first instance of kissing with sexual contact he saw her as a problem to be managed, he needed to do everything to avoid her telling anyone at work or spreading rumours etc so he thought by not falling out with her or ignoring her he was doing the right thing.

All of the above is believable for my H personality, I don’t like it but yes I see him doing all of that. The problem I have is when he got a new job role and transferred dept to get away from he. Everything he tells me is cancelled out by his actions here. He went training for 10 weeks, then started the new role. For 4 months he hadn’t seen her then saw her waiting for the bus outside work, he pulled over and gave her a lift, he did this a few times before it ended up in there being kissing with contact which was the last incident. This didn’t need to be managed, he chose to do this and it leads me to believe he had feelings for her because there’s no other explanation. When I asked him what was going through his head here he said nothing he just thought oh there’s AP I’ll give her a lift home.

He is much better than before I can see he’s really trying, he’s putting a lot of effort in to being a safer H.

I think that l feel that if he had feelings for her, that means he’s with me because of obligation, if I’m his obligation he will definitely cheat again because I’ll never be enough.
Every time he tells me he loves me or messages me that he loves me I have a little voice in my head that says ‘LIAR’, I don’t know how to make that voice stop.

Still confused if you don’t mind me asking does the ‘feelings’ part still bother you? What parts of it all bothers you mostly?

Bruce123

My husband is adamant he never had feelings, he liked how the attention made him feel and the ego boost. Once he made a decision to end it he never once looked back, I don't believe he could do that easily if he had feelings. Part of his guilt and shame is that he treated another person this way, purely for his own selfish gains, not because he feels bad for her but he can now see how low he his morals went for a period of time and he hates that.

So I don't think going back means he has feelings, but only your husband can answer that, but I don't think it is "evidence" of feelings.

I suppose it also depends on what you mean by feelings, if you mean feelings of attraction, infatuation, ego boost then yes I think my husband had those, but feelings of attachment or intimacy/love absolutely not, and his actions from discovery back that up

Drowning,
He can admit to being attracted to her but he says ‘not that much’ he was more attracted to the verbal porn she provided.
He has told me he’s been attracted to a work colleague around 15 years ago, he said she was very attractive/beautiful and said that AP was not really attractive at all just ‘ok’, Honestly if I posted a pic of her and me at the time it happened I’m sure everyone on here would have a good laugh.

I’ve asked him if he feels bad for her, he said no, she was someone who was out for what she could get and she wasn’t bothered weather she got it or not. He tells me that she’s the only woman who has ever been persistent and offered him everything and he’s never come across a woman like her before, even after rejecting her offers of oral it never stopped her from trying, he said it was as if it never happened. He said when he found out she was dating someone he felt relieved that he didn’t need to plan which entrance and exits to use etc as she would leave him alone.

Sounds like it was just as easy and laid on a plate, no matter how strong your will power is on a diet, someone shoves a doughnut in your face often enough you may eventually take a bite, maybe it was nothing more than that. In hindsight and as the betrayed partner I believe we put much more focus on the why and how, the betraying partner just doesn't at those moments, it's a case of they want to and it's available, otherwise they would never be in that position in the first place.

Drowning,
H says something similar, he says if she wasn’t there then it would never have happened. Obviously this is not very nice for me because I’m more than capable of telling someone to fuck off! and my H just isn’t.

H said that as soon as he allowed the boundary of the banter to be crossed she assumed they were friends and started asking for lifts home.

I think this past week I’ve come to a crossroads of my his feelings for her, for me, and what that means for us. I’ve always been able to shrug this off but not anymore, looks like brain wants to process this now.

I guess that’s why I’m here on SI, as usual I’m always given support that’s much needed and valued.

Which part of the feelings has you worried the most? And what does it mean for you?

'Liking something' sure sounds like a feeling to me.

I think if he had feelings for her then he’s only with me because of obligation. This happens a lot in his culture, even if they are not happy or don’t love their partner they stay because of the shame and stigma attached to D.
If he’s with me because of obligation then he’ll cheat again, I’ll never be enough for him. I have to D if this is the case.

Ah ok that makes sense. I think it's a case of watching and waiting, and going by his actions. I heard a podcast today that healing from an affair doesn't require you to make a decision to stay or go while in the thick of healing, the healing journey will bring the clarity. It's like looking out at foggy window, you won't know what it's like outside until you start to wipe that mist away. See this part of your journey as wiping the mist, keep doing the work, not to figure out if you should stay or go, but to give you the clarity and clarity will come from experience not overthinking ❤️

Sisoon,
The feelings I’m talking about are the
‘I wish I could be with this person’ or ‘I wish things were different’.

Bruce, I know this is not going to be helpful to you perhaps, but for what it's worth, I think your husband is telling you the truth about how he "feels" about this woman or what she meant or didn't mean to him. I think it was about him trying to fit into a toxic atmosphere, being one of the "boys" and also not knowing how to say no as well as enjoying the attention and sexual behavior that resulted. I don't think it's really anything more than that. He probably should be, if he's not, addressing these things with IC to find out why he needed to behave like this and what better things he might have done then and in the future not to have these results and hurt you and injure his marriage. He really DOES have to understand that that's the end result, esp if he tries to minimize that. It sounds like this work place really sucks and it's had a negative effect on him as work places sometimes do and he needs to learn how to deal with that - including as a foreigner - and how to avoid women who want to use him or entrap him in some bad behavior, even if he doesn't think it means anything. Things like this can get out of hand easily and wreck our lives even if we don't have any conscious intention towards that starting out.

I think a big part of this is AVOIDING TEMPTATION. This seems so obvious to me and yet our society almost never addresses this. We all think we can overcome temptation or talk our way out of it or it doesn't matter much anyway but none of that is true. Some people CAN overcome or ignore temptation...but I don't think most of us CAN which is why it's such an important thing to learn and do. We know now that your husband has a temptation towards certain things if put into those positions - he has to AVOID those things. He has to avoid being alone with a woman like that, he has to learn how to say no even if it's "my wife won't let me, forbids me to do this"...yeah, maybe it sounds a bit emasculating to some, but if it works, it works. We have to define what causes us temptation and what puts us in these situations and learn to avoid it or get out of it immediately. HE CANNOT TAKE THE RISK. Possibly if he still works in this job, at any place where he runs into this woman, he really has to leave and find a new job - even if he can learn to deal with her temptations specifically, it would make you feel better if he's not running into her. Also, a toxic workplace like this is something he should avoid if he can. I am a potato chip fiend....I'm not going to go to work in the potato chip factory - I'd weigh 300 lbs because I HAVE NO WILL POWER. Well, almost none. I freely admit that. So my thing is to rigidly avoid temptation as much as possible. As I said to another poster, preacher Billy Graham had a famous life rule that he NEVER allowed himself to be alone with a woman who was not his wife (or presumably a relative). This was to avoid false claims against him, but also to AVOID TEMPTATION for himself. You can't be tempted by what isn't there and we should never over-estimate our ability to withstand temptation. Most of us can't - I can't. If you put some hunk in front of me who kept trying to romance me up - yeah, I could fall too, no matter how I feel about my husband. I'd have to avoid that scenario. Unfortunately.....Chris Hemsworth hasn't found me yet so it doesn't appear to be an issue.

I also think, if he's not doing it, your husband needs a lot of IC. It's not a weakness, it's about undoing damage from the past - or even present - that has made him feel like he always has to please people. It sounds like he had shitty parents and he hasn't learned to deal with it. I think it would do him and you a lot of good to address this on an ongoing basis.

But in general, I think you two are good candidates for recon if he is able to avoid temptation and reassure you of his ongoing love and commitment. I'd also advise you against pain shopping if he's really trying to make an effort, especially if he IS able to avoid temptation in his working life. I think you two can make it and I don't often say that. I'm usually a big advocate for divorce.

[This message edited by BondJaneBond at 7:57 PM, Tuesday, August 19th]