SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi everyone,
I’ve been lurking here for a while and finally mustered the courage to post. I’m the WS in our story—I had an affair in 2018 (EA and PA) then again for 4 months in 2021 (EA) . In July of 2023 I decided to confess to my husband. It shattered everything. We’ve been in recovery mode ever since: transparency with phones/passwords etc and trying to rebuild trust brick by brick. To that end, I quit my job right after D-day and haven’t gone back to work. But full disclosure: I trickle-truthed for way too long after D-day, which dragged out the pain and made everything so much harder for him. Honestly we have good days but still have more bad than good. He says he is broken and I understand. I love him with all my heart and he says he loves me and we both want our marriage to work. He’s seeing a therapist, but honestly, it’s not super helpful—just mostly for prescribing meds to manage the anxiety and depression from all this.
To add another layer, he’s been on dating sites pretty much from the start. He hasn’t acted on anything or met up with anyone, but it still stings knowing they’re there, like a constant reminder of the hurt I caused.
But lately, he’s been talking about (soft) swinging. Like, as a way to "heal" his wounds. He says it would help him feel desired again, erase some of the pain from what I did, and help him heal. I get the logic on paper—I’ve hurt him so deeply that maybe sharing that space could balance things out? But honestly, it terrifies me. I’m not attracted to the idea at all; it feels like trading one kind of betrayal for another, and I’m scared it’ll just reopen old scars for both of us. Still, because I love him and want to make this right, I’ve agreed to at least explore it—even though he knows I’m not really comfortable with it.
Just wondering, How far do you have to go to prove you’re sorry? What’s the line between healthy compromise and just enabling more pain? Has anyone else dealt with something like this in recovery? Did swinging (or any form of ethical non-monogamy) actually help rebuild trust, or did it backfire? How did you navigate saying "yes" when your gut screamed "no," just to show remorse? Or did you set a boundary and hold it anyway—especially after trickle-truthing, quitting your job to stay "visible," and all the other mess-ups? We tried this once before and when it came time to meet someone I backed out. Told him I just couldn’t. He can’t understand why I was able to cheat on him but don’t want to do this. He said he was going to do something with or without me and was talking to other women on dating sites but said he would rather do something with me. Recently he seems to have gotten worse, not better and I’m at a loss as to how to help him. I guess I’m desperate. He recently reached out to an old girlfriend as well. Just to talk he said. She didn’t respond.
Sorry if this is all over the place—my head’s spinning. Any stories, advice, or gentle reality checks would mean the world right now.
Thanks for reading

From one potentially-swinging-WS to another… Don’t do it if you’re not 100% sure about it and comfortable with it. Once you engage in non-monogamy, it’s not something you can "reverse" or "take back—" meaning, if you’re hurt or traumatized by the experience, there is no way to go back in time and un-experience that, same as there is no way for BSs to go back in time and reverse their betrayal trauma.

That’s not to say that agreed-upon extramarital relations are equally as damaging as secretive, betraying extramarital relations… I just mean that two wrongs aren’t going to make a right, as they say. If your BH wants to feel desired, ask him what you can do to help him feel desired by you. Brainstorm about it yourself as well. Make every effort to help him feel that way.

At the same time… I think that it’s kind of easy, as a WS, to feel like since we effed up, we have to forfeit all of our "rights" to proper treatment from our BS within our marriages, and I think, quite plainly, that that is a mistake. If your BS decides that reconciliation is what they want, then they are agreeing to keep you as their spouse, and to treat you as one ought to treat a spouse. That means that, yes, you agree to returning to respecting their boundaries, not hurting them anymore than you have, and to re-earning their trust (and maybe, eventually, their forgiveness)… but ALSO that your spouse agrees to continue to respect your boundaries and protect you from the kind of hurt you have inflicted on them. They should understand why it is a horrible thing to experience, having gone through it themselves, and not want you to experience the same thing if they truly love you. (Though, sometimes humans experience conflicting feelings.)

If it is not BOTH of you who are committed to reconciliation and all of the difficult things it requires… if his anger, possible desire for revenge, desire to feel desired by women other than his wife, etc. are greater than his sense of marital duty and love for you… I would recommend maybe a temporary separation while he works through that (hopefully in IC.) You still deserve that from your spouse if the goal is reconciliation, even if you have committed infidelity, and being made to feel the same kind of hurt will only bring you further from that goal, not closer to healing.

Second edit to add: From what I’ve read, the most effective ways to demonstrate remorse are:

-Showing empathy and compassion for your BS’s emotions, and providing support where possible,
-Take ownership and accountability for your actions and acknowledge that you caused those feelings,
-Apologize profoundly and often. You basically cannot apologize too much, but it needs to be specific and sincere,
-Express gratitude for the chance to reconcile,
-Reform yourself. Examine your "whys" and the circumstances surrounding your infidelity very closely, and dig deep into them. What made it possible for you to betray your loved one like this? What aspects of yourself do you need to fix and change, and how do you begin to go about doing that? What kind of partner does your BS need, and how do you become that person? Once you figure it out, show your partner you are committed to changing in those ways.

Best of luck, AAH.

[This message edited by DayByDay96 at 5:54 PM, Monday, September 29th]

IMO, R is a process of building and maintaining a marriage that serves both partners.

Also IMO, that means both partners participate in defining what the new M will be. If the partners don't agree, I think the best resolution would be to shake hands and split.

Your H says, in effect, that external validation will cure him. It won't cure him, and it won't change the fact that he was cheated on. IMO, he's looking for an easy way out of his pain, but ALL the paths are difficult. If he doesn't do the work - if he doesn't deal with his anger, grief, fear, and shame - he won't heal. IMO, he needs to address his pain directly.

What have you done to change from cheater to good partner. Telling the truth ais a great step. Leaving your are good step, if your ap was a co-worker or someone else you met at work for your assignations. But neither action addresses A directly. You conducted your As to get some needs met. You still have the needs. What are you doing to get them met in healthy ways or make them needs no longer?

The first day my WH disclosed (8 years after the fact) I registered for Dolly Madison. I was of course pisssssed. I have ever opened it again and would not know how. But, I will sometimes say things like what if I hooked up with so and so. Would you be jealous? I usually just want to hear he would be jealous. It is juvenile I realize and it is rare. I think it is tempting to bring these things up (it’s called triangulating) to try to establish a more equal power distribution. Sometimes I feel so disempowered by being the betrayed. Then again, your spouse could be serious because of course everyone is different. I think you should be 100 percent honest about how you think it would make you feel.

Your H says, in effect, that external validation will cure him. It won't cure him, and it won't change the fact that he was cheated on. IMO, he's looking for an easy way out of his pain, but ALL the paths are difficult. If he doesn't do the work - if he doesn't deal with his anger, grief, fear, and shame - he won't heal. IMO, he needs to address his pain directly.

This ^^^

"Soft swinging," whatever the fuck that means, has absolutely nothing at all to do with remorse. This is all about some bizarre fantasy of his and, I think, a huge red flag.

Being remorseful is a key to personal growth. Contrition is an expression of that remorse. Swinging, soft, hard, or at the fucking Playboy Mansion, doesn't factor into it.

I’m at a loss as to how to help him.

There is no justification for infidelity. That includes being a betrayed spouses.

You can't help him. You can't stop him. You can, however, help yourself.

And know this. Whatever he chooses to do, it is not your fault.

I would personally advocate for trying anything—within legal and ethical reason—to help the betrayed partner heal. Irrespective of other people's assertions that a given action won't make him feel better, this is sheer speculation. No one truly knows how he feels, and therefore, they cannot know what will genuinely aid his healing process.

I could never commit to reconciliation for a host of reasons, but I do know myself. If I were locked into persisting with a marriage post-infidelity due to circumstantial reasons, such as financial constraints, I would need some sort of field-leveling action to maintain my self-respect.
The rationale for this field-leveling is threefold:

If, like me, the betrayed partner struggles with the injustice of the affair, and yet has chosen to stay with the cheating spouse, he has nothing in his arsenal to bring equality back into the marriage. In his view, the cheating spouse "wins": she had her fun while he was the dutiful husband, and he still kept her after discovery. While the cheating partner's internal guilt might make this untrue from her perspective, that guilt is not tangible to many betrayed spouses. As an addendum, while a hall pass or soft swinging may not perfectly level the playing field, a point many users hammer home, it unarguably bridges the gap.

I struggled heavily with emasculation post-infidelity. As primal and unenlightened as it may seem, nothing cured it like having a host of other partners. It wasn't until I felt like I had sexually satisfied a few other partners that I felt entirely back at ease. This clearly isn't applicable to everyone, but it was absolutely essential for my own recovery.

Finally, the hypocrisy of a cheating partner being unable to allow the very thing she is hoping or expecting me to forgive would ultimately destroy me. The entitlement is merely an outrageous position. Hypocrisy is one of the most infuriating attributes, and if my partner displayed this, I could never get past it.

I don’t know anything about this, but I think it’s a really bad idea.

If my WW had offered me a hall pass, I would have divorced her.

What is happening is he is AVOIDING GRIEVING. Sex with another, although he may THINK it might provide a relief of the pain....it will not. In fact, it may provide a whole other layer of emptiness.

He wants to fill the empty feeling of not being loved and chosen, which came upon him through the betrayal. He needs to learn to sit with and process the grief.

You actually can play a big part in that healing through real amends and true remorse and hatred of your actions. That take consistency over time. I highly recommend he gets therapy from a Betrayal Trauma Specialist. Check out Jake Porter Daring Ventures. I really think his "Couples Centers Recovery Model" can help your marriage be saved.

The quick fix of swinging will NOT work, although our flesh thinks it will. I pray you get hold of Daring Ventures.🙏

[This message edited by WoodThrush2 at 2:12 AM, Wednesday, October 1st]

Thank you all for your responses. ❤️

[This message edited by Ashamedandhopeless at 9:42 PM, Wednesday, October 1st]

Infidelity is abuse, and you can’t heal or fix abuse with more abuse.

We see this quite often here on this site, especially on this forum. A WS is doing all they think is right to fix things and make amends, while the BS is – frankly – showing abusive behavior.
OK – so the first weeks and even months there can be tremendous rage and anger. But the BS always has the option of ending the relationship. If there is still this intense anger and need for revenge months later... IMHO the work isn’t being done.

Marriage is always a compromise. The concept of compromise doesn’t have to be negative: I compromise my ability to use my wages in any way I want in order for us as a family-unit to live a good life. I can’t go buy a motorbike and skip putting food on the table. I compromise my option on hitting on the babe I met at the bar for the expected fidelity of my spouse.
What he’s asking for is a discussion on a compromise. He want’s to compromise the sexual fidelity aspect of marriage. If both agree... well then, it’s not infidelity. It’s an expected behavior within the marriage. But swinging / open marriages only work if BOTH are in agreement. This is a lot more than a request to be vegetarian, or if the house should be painted red rather than green. This is a major decision and can ONLY be taken if both are completely 100% comfortable with it.

You aren’t. Him hooking up with another woman would be an affair, and that you have had one does not equate to him being allowed to have one. It’s abuse – just like your affair was abuse – and the two of you would be in an abusive marriage with double the issues you have now.

His feelings... he get’s IC to deal with that, not out-of-marriage sex.

Ashamedandhopeless - I'm gonna be very direct and honest with you. I don't think this marriage is coming back and I would get a divorce. I really would. I would go direct to a lawyer and end this now. DO NOT DO THE OPEN MARRIAGE BULLSHIT. DO NOT. PLEASE DO NOT. This almost never works, and it just creates a bigger disaster with more heartbreak. I don't think it ever works, frankly, but to the extent it does, it only works when both people START OFF on the same page with this thinking. If you are both non-monogamists by nature and intent, then maybe it can work out, I tend to think not, but those are the people with the best chance. If you actually love your husband - and at this point I'd be asking WHY because I think a lot of people confuse comfort and custom with actual love - this will hurt you greatly, and he knows that, and he doesn't love you.

Maybe that's part of the reason you've cheated in the past, you sense this on some level. It doesn't feel like the emotions or committment are, or ever have been, equal. If they once were, they're not now and he has been cheating on you ever since he started seeking outside people whether through on-line dating, old girlfriends, or now the open marriage bullshit. My guess, and this is just my intuition, is that....even if you had not cheated, he would still be doing these things because this is what HE WANTS TO DO and he has probably cheated on you too physically and you don't know it. He's trying to manipulate you through guilt to a lifestyle that HE WANTS where he gets to eat as much cake (which is the sex and emotional connections with other people) with no guilt or responsibility for himself because he'll just be able to blame all this on you. How convenient.

So I don't think this guy really loves you, I don't think he wants to be monogamous at all, I think he's using your cheating, which I suspect was partly a result of your reactions to his treatment of you, to guilt and manipulate you into the lifestyle HE DOES WANT, which is NOT conducive to a happy healthy marriage, or a happy healthy YOU.

I would tell you that your marriage is irretrievably broken, it's not just your fault, it may not even be mostly your fault despite your own cheating, and you two do not want the same thing in marriage. Again, PLEASE DO NOT DO THE OPEN MARRIAGE THING.....it's only going to break your heart and leave you far worse off than you are now. No marriage was ever healed by bringing other people into it. I think it's time to recognize that this just hasn't worked out, sometimes it just doesn't, and you should each move on. I'm telling you this for your own good and because you are so ridden by guilt you will do almost anything at this point and YOU SIMPLY MUST NOT. He does not want a real marriage....he wants a victim to blame - you - and the trappings of marriage but he wants to act like a single man with options. This will destroy you, I have never seen this work out.

Go see a divorce lawyer and work this out. This is over.

Just ask yourself: Is THIS the marriage YOU really want? Because if it's not.....you're not going to get it through this route.

Not all marriages are recoverable after adultery. Sorry, but that’s a simple, but perhaps ugly fact to you OP. Perhaps consider this option, assuming you truly love this man and truly want to be with him into old age:

1. Divorce. Be over-the-top kind & generous to him in the D
2. Tell your H now that you’re divorced, he should pursue other relationships
3. Tell him you are willing to wait some period of time (1 yr?) where you will not engage in other sexual relationships. Tell him you’re willing to take a polygraph after the period of time you’ve been chaste
4. After said period of time, sit down and see whether BOTH of you truly want to try again
5. Date for another good period of time
6. If after all of this, you both are certain, remarry

Obviously, you both must be fully on board with this. If the above seems entirely unacceptable, and it’s understandable it might, then simply divorce. At minimum, you should offer it if you haven’t already. Tell him you’re not onboard with swapping/hall passes/whatever, and so you are setting him free to heal.

I agree w gr8ful's advice the most so far.

Swinging sounds like a horrible idea, especially doubly so if you would be participating.

You really should get why your BH is so extremely confused in the meanwhile however. You engaged in these affairs. And then AFTER you did this, NOW you want to fight to save the marriage? These are almost definitely thoughts running through your BH's mind. Have you worked through your Whys for cheating.