SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Stretch - I agree with your first post. You are too late to Walloped's posts now.

T/J

Stretch,

Although you've touched one member here deeply, you've also done some things I would never expect from a competent MD - diagnosis based on anonymous posts. You've also written gross over-generalizations. I'm assuming you do that because of your own pain.

Why not post your story in a new thread and get the support you want?

And please use paragraphs when you write.

End T/J

Sisoon. Please.....complete misrepresentation, you brand with words that have no truth....point out a diagnosis here. Not diagnosing ANYONE. I Read all threads of this story and quoted many words written by Walloped....that....his W said. Consider the purpose of any of us being here. Should not a WS be Remorseful? But let's define that word. In OUR context IT IS PUTTING THE BS welfare above their own. Under such a definition should Mrs. Walloped not let go if after another say 6 months, Walloped is still stuck?

This was a deep betrayal marked by its continuous placing of the husband below the AP.......often cruelly, so in complete secrecy, with no guilt. eg. put her sex acts with AP above avoiding the kissing of BH so as not to make him suspicious by NOT kissing him. Ask any men if they would kiss another woman....especially a wife who had just given another man oral sex. This is a SAHM of 5 and was without intention of ending it ....ever.....until her exit from BH.....and she admitted this a a real possible ending if things kept along the course it was on. She thanked BIL for catching her before it went that far. And accompanied by a complete transference of loyalty to the AP and off the BH that was not even fully shaken by being put on the phone with the POS wife to whom Mrs. Walloped apologized stating she did not know POS was married, to which the POS wife responded, "But you KNEW you were married, you whore". (Does it look like I don't KNOW this story??). It took another full week and her breaking NC with POS (this was supposed to be a deal breaker if she broke this but Walloped let it slide. She did not admit this to Walloped until he told her a polygraph was in store and it yielded this an another "parking lot confession") before her love of POS was disabused. Now her project suddenly became reformation as she threw herself into the task with abandon to now transform in a blink from the best little cheater around to the best Remorseful "f" WW. But ask what is remorse? Repairing her life? Putting Walloped above herself?.......hell she never just put her husband and father of her 5 children even on the same damn level as POS. If Walloped comes first and she was truly remorseful she would have already let him go. His father died younger than Walloped is now of heart attack. These next 5 years to man like him, who so obviously takes this so hard (still can't touch her sexually...Mrs. Walloped's last sex partner remains today POS from early August (yes I believe she has not cheated again....yet) is being bathed in stress hormone cortisol which in chronic stress contribute greatly to heart disease. Walloped always exercised I believe to counteract this possible problem which is highly heritable....now depressed to an extent he sits. Should his fWW hold him to a stressful state for years and years risking this REAL RISK to his life so as to repair HER marriage? Food for thought.

Another point from an earlier comment. I NEVER SAID ALL WOMEN WANT a forceful, aggressive, dominant man...I said most....proved by studies for years. stretch

Original point to this thread:

Should Walloped share SI with his wife?

(I forget, was the consensus, no?).

I will conjecture that Stretch is pushing Walloped to allow all of the anger out now. Not protect his wife's feelings at the expense of his own. (I think I agree to a degree).

Walloped, you said in your original post that you've hit the anger phase. Good. Torturous, but good.

Stretch, Walloped has stated that he hopes for reconciliation because he remembers

who his wife is. The woman he married. Is there possibility of having a good marriage again?

Isn't it mental masturbation to wonder what could have happened? Doesn't it muddy the waters to wonder about scenarios that never transpired?

We all know, after reading and sharing here, that it is a long haul. It's a waiting game. So, Walloped has agreed (to himself) that he will wait, watch, work on himself, and make a decision down the road.

Will he have a lightbulb moment giving him clear direction at some point? I hope so.

In the meantime, the caution about health issues is am good one. But, if Walloped maintains that he is feeling free to express himself, he is not holding back, not suppressing his emotions, then perhaps he is not in immediate danger of dropping over.

T/J again - stretch,

I can't follow your last post. I've tried to parse it into 'graphs, but I can't, and I'm pretty good with language. Perhaps if you wrote in paragraphs, you'd be easier to understand.

I may have misread your posts, but I certainly haven't done any misrepresentation - I've reported how I read them.

I really wish you'd open a thread about what you hope to get from SI (but please use paragraphs).

This is just feedback, bro. Use what makes sense; ignore the rest. Just remember that the fact that some feedback doesn't make sense doesn't invalidate it.

End T/J (And if you don't take my point with this post, I'll do my best not to raise it again.)

A little shorter bites gallery. CORRECT......you can not R in ANGER PHASE. If he tries and bottles up his ANGER, as he will do (note in all his posts he ALWAYS has W back........with only a single time letting out his disappointment that not ONE TIME did she have his interests at heart in the affair). It won't take.....called False R. If he allows the Anger out at this time and tries R at the same time, the amount of Anger he has will prevent progress period. This is way too early for him IMO. He is trying to open up to the betrayer.....common obstacle in R. Worsened because he has no other emotional support other than brother and it is highly likely, certain, that 2 brothers don't talk as he would to a wife.

SIS. please point out ANY diagnosis on any post here. Suggest you look up definition of the word, I am doing something else, trying to find a longer path for Wal. to take that leaves all options open for HIM to chose at the right time but which exposes him to things he has not yet considered.....i.e. a different woman. If you were to cross a wide lake would you take your last boat that sunk and is now being repaired, or look for a new boat? Or wait some more time for your old boat to get fixed better. All choices for Wal. that will come up. Our job is to throw possibilities out there he has not considered.

As for fWW seeing this site......should not be considered until and if they are doing well 4 to 6 years in given the depth of this affair and its many issues. Wal. hasn't figured out anything yet other than one day he thinks he is done and a couple weeks later......D is OFF THE TABLE.......WTF??. The answers will all reveal themselves in time, a lot of it. stretch

Valentine -

I've said this to a few others privately, but I'll share it here as well. In the end, I chose not to share SI with her for a variety of reasons. However, an SI friend had downloaded all of my posts from my two threads and coalesced them into one long Word document. Anyway, he forwarded it to me so I could read them to my wife as some sort of journal that I supposedly had kept since DDay. Writing exercise type of thing per my IC. I personally don't like keeping things hidden from her (he says ironically given what she's kept hidden during her affair), but I do want SI to remain my safe place.

I checked with my IC and he thought this was a wonderful idea as he's well aware of my difficulty opening up to my wife. Anyway, I started a while ago. I explained what it was and what I hoped to accomplish and asked her if she was willing to listen and review, at my own pace. I let her know that my writing is very raw - basically a brain dump of emotion and that it may not be so easy for her to hear. She was more than willing. She didn't hesitate. And so I did.

I will say that it was a very emotionally exhausting first few days. Lots of tears between the two of us. A good deal of anger swelling up inside as well that bled through as I re-read what I wrote and what I felt. The pain and anguish came roaring back. The injustice of it all. The hate. The shame. The disbelief. The hurt.

She took it well. Or as well as she could. I’ve been reading it to her, so she hears it not just through my words, but in my voice as well, with all the emotion that it carries as I know just how I was feeling when I wrote it. We have made it through a good portion of my first thread. Brutal is a good way to phrase it and we haven’t even gotten to the part where I asked her all those detailed questions yet. I can’t imagine how difficult that will be when we get to it – for me and for her. It does get to be a bit much after a while and it takes a toll. On the both of us. I’m in no rush to finish it soon. I’m taking it slow. I have amazed myself at times that I was actually able to read through it. Many times I couldn’t look at her while reading. She took it though. I’ll give her that. Never asked me to stop. Didn’t really interrupt. No major breakdowns. Lots of crying and sobbing. Me too, if I’m going to be completely honest. But I find it cathartic in a way. I’m finally letting it out and the chips can fall where they may. I believe I’m better off for it and I believe our R has a better chance of success as a result as this is giving me a way to express myself so that when other issues arise, I am comfortable doing so. In the end, after each "session," she thanked me for sharing it with her. For trusting her with my feelings. My hope was and continues to be that this will help me express myself more, feel free to open up a bit and share when something triggers me or when the pain of this hits me. So far so good. It's been very helpful. It's opening the gateways. It's a good start. We go slow. But it's serving its purpose.

I thought this was a great idea when first mentioned. I'm glad that this is healing for you, it is so important that she understands your pain, especially since she was not exposed to your raw pain early on. How is your WW's IC going?

That's brilliant, Walloped, not sharing SI but sharing what you wrote. I'm very happy for you that your W is listening and responding (sobs/tears being appropriate at this point, IMO).

It sounds like grief is your most prominent emotion WRT your W's A at this point. It doesn't matter what the feeling is, though - expressing it honestly and safely is the way through the pain to, first, surviving, and then to thriving.

Many of us go through an anger stage after around 6 months of healing. Don't worry about it, if it hits you - it's well within the range of normality. If your W can't take your anger, you don't need her, but it sounds like she'll accept it. In any case, processing anger is part of healing for the BS, so it's part of R if you're in R.

Great work, Walloped!

Looks as if this thread is near an end. The BS clearly wants R at this point and the peanut gallery now needs to help as they can in this or any coming thread. R is a long process especially in this difficult case. Maybe some things I'll put out here can help Wal. and his W. Some ways to think of things I picked up over more than 3 1/2 decades of IC, MC and general psychological care that went beyond my regular medical practice are these. Think of Wal. and his W. in a boxing ring for a no rounds limit fight. BUT.....they are NOW on the same side. They are in the ring to HELP each other win (think heal). So who / what is their opponent? All the details of the fWW infidelity. Now in a boxing match Wal. would have a second in his corner, who if Wal. is taking too much pain they COULD throw in the towel......letting the marriage go. Of course, Wal. like any fighter can say at any time, can say "No Mass"....(No more, letting the marriage go. Also Wal. has a substitute second his fWW. who can ALSO decide to let go. We see she desperately wants to save the marriage....refer to her tears over the albums. Listen she is in pain and is human....understandable. And I believe she has reached a high degree of remorse 6 months out. But as you all must know, the highest degree of remorse comes when she puts Wal. over EVERYTHING. For a long time last summer she placed him beneath her as she did her children......BUT....she also placed the children and Wal. below her AP...POS (I must say this guy truly deserved the title Wal. placed on him from the beginning). She, unfortunately, for R now even placed Wal. below the sex she had with POS. In other words she didn't spare him the indignities and ultimate humiliation in deference to her and POS sexual pleasures. I went into this issue a post or two back. But now, if she reaches true remorse she MUST put Wal. above her saving her marriage.....IF she sees him suffer and struggle over things in the R that she realizes are too hard for him to get past. Wal. IMO will try R over this woman until he dies once he stops this current vacillations......which I expect to continue at least another year. A point. I would ultimately think Wal. should continue his readings to his wife. But I think he should stop for an indeterminate pause BEFORE he gets to the terrible list where his wife answered in the most brutally honest thing I have ever seen in forums or 35 years of IC and MC. It is too much now. They are simply too raw at this point without having resolution on lesser matters already done. By the way, I think they will have to re-visit many of the elements here before Wal. can get past them. There may come a time for Wald to read THAT LIST but I think that is not now. There may be much behind the list that can be appropriate now. A general rule that won't fail you on this course is to take your time. A word about forgiveness....long subject, suffice to say here it does not exist in human beings.....after Jesus. Great Whales, Dolphins, Elephants, Dogs, Horses, and Bonobo Great Apes..(and others)...but not Cats or Humans. The concept of Forgiveness is meaningless in R. Understand and get past....don't think acceptance has any meaning in these matters also as no BS virtually will ever approve infidelity and acceptance is thought of sometimes, wrongly as some sort of approval....completely off base.

Back to fWW.......at some point if she sees Wal. suffering terribly she needs to let go (of him and the marriage....Wal. can not stop her if she so decides. She must look, during this process, at his emotional health, the quality of his life, and while as a retired Internal Medicine Specialist I am focused on Cardiovascular Health....it is none the less a fact that her husband's father died in his early 40's of a heart attack. Wal. now has the genetic risk and all this stress.....these issues must......MUST be addressed continuously over the next decade and in fact the remainder of his life. Please if this is all you take from this.....take it. The question then is his wife up to this? Will she place him above her wants. I strongly believe Wal. will never give up on her. Wal. should also look out for fWW health......in R...especially mental aspects as this is where she is and probably forever will punish herself. And self punishment can lead to mental illness.

I posted a scenario earlier where they take off a year and look at other people. I would not expect fWW to date (though that would, IMO, make Wal. decision easy...or I hope it would. Those conditions I outlined can be taken lower such as just a legal in house separation (no divorce, wedding rings and name left alone , of course) with the kids seeing no change. I would think separate bedrooms appropriate as then any dating by Wal. would remain ethical as long as he disclosed the state of things to any new women in his life. Six months, a year? They decide. I think some from the forum here could chip in to tell Wal. their experiences finding love after D from the "Love Of Their Life".

A final thing about the sex experience as re-called by a WW. To men nothing worse than the report from the WW. Positive sex experiences reported to BH by WW lead to D in well over 90% of infidelity. About 15 years in to my IC and MC I learned a way to put things in perspective. We all know of the effect of fantasy land Affair sex. But here is something I learned to do. It was most effective if I could IC the WW before the full confession was made but also proved effective to a lesser degree in MC when even full disclosure has been made. I ask the WW (not nearly as important in men as sex for men really is not much better or worse wherever they finish into.....a sad fact that says about us....and most women understand this intuitively which is why R of a BW to a WH is RELATIVELY easier to accomplish. Please don't pile on ladies......this is well known that men quickly throw the AP under the bus as their loyalty to the wife usually (certainly not always) was never in peril. This gives the wife something solid to R on. But the WW has a double whammy....how poorly the BH reacts to the sex....it also does not help that they remain in the mythical for weeks if not months. Mythical because oscam's razor leads me to understand "The Fog" is simply the WW falling in love with the AP and out of love with the BH. A perfect fit for all the elements of "The Fog". Wal's fWW even stayed fogged another week AFTER she knew the alley rat POS really was. The brain in love takes time. The rebonding to the BH is falling back in love with him and I can tell you from uncountable encounters in IC that the WW nearly always "Fakes It Until She Makes IT" because they understand how shaky everything they blew up is and they assume the role to try and keep their home stable. Finishing, I ask the WW to put their AP at home mentally as their husband and take their BH and put him in fantasy land as the AP. Then imagine the quality of the sex with the husband, a new man, fantasy land of the fair.......and tell me how his sexual perform would then stack up against how it took place in real life. When it works and the light bulb goes off in their head I have seen many of my patients break in sobs of relief and as they realize they don't have to think their AP was a better lover. Small victories. Works less well after a bad disclosure has been made as revisionism is at play. In Wal. case there was one thing that may be of some small victory scope. His wife said, in Wal.s post the sex was different, more exciting, and she enjoyed it better in comparison with their sex at home. Hard to take on its face. She also lied early on, saying she had the same kinds of sex (but did do anal with POS.....but at least she never turned down her BH as he, like a lot of us see it as not much at all and disagreeable while guys like POS specialize doing it on WW as they get off on thinking it makes them a real man doing the wife of another in a new way) just more of it. The thing I noticed was Mrs. Wal. was brutally honest after she finally stopped most trickle truth. So I believe this she said.....she O'd half the time with POS but Wal. says she O's the vast majority of the time when they had sex. Try having her do the mental switch and think how responsive she might have been had Wal. been her AP. In fact, that scenario might be one case of infidelity that most of us would approve of. So I think circumstances and environment greatly colorize the perceptions of sex for WOMEN. Men? Not so much as one of many great memories I have of sex .....one of the best was on a bait boat that absolutely stunk off New Orleans when I was 20 years old. We are far less nuanced than our better selves. Sometimes / manytimes this method doesn't work as some WW can't do the switch mentally. I have always wondered if these women severely lacked empathy as many cheaters do and thus had trouble understanding people in other peoples shoes. Good luck to you both and better times ahead. Always take care of yourselves. Start a new thread at some point and let us see how you are doing.....you have made many friends here I have seen in just the last few days. You remind me of Don Quixote in your resolve. stretch

Walloped

I believe what you’re doing by reading your thread to your wife from beginning to end is a wonderful idea. You seem to have had so much difficulty in expressing your feelings to your wife that I can’t think of any better way of explaining your emotional evolution from discovery to the present. This avenue will enable you to truly give voice to your progression of questions, doubts, fears, anger, pain and your struggle for understanding of how and why this devastating betrayal happened. You slowly going through this chronology should indelibly imprint the depth of your feelings on her. I’m certain she realized you were in pain but utilizing this methodology should cause her to actually feel that same pain.

I noticed a recent post by you discussing your continuing lack of sexual desire for your wife most likely fueled by self-inflicted performance anxiety. You mentioned that your IC suggested you simply dive into the deep end. My suggestion is that you stay out of the pool altogether until you finish reading through your thread. I’m certain each of those sessions is emotionally exhausting. When you finally finish the reading of your complete thread to your wife I would suggest small steps into the pool rather than diving. I recommend starting by alternating nights of sensual but not sexual massage. Re-familiarize yourselves with each other’s bodies but avoid direct sexual contact. The goal is to relocate and stimulate all of those erogenous zones located all over her body from raking your fingernails across the bottom of her feet to softly caressing or kissing areas on her neck , behind ears etc. I believe that you will find that the feel of her body responding to your touches will result in your body being stimulated. Especially if you agree that the session will not result in having sex and thereby avoiding performance anxiety. I suggest that if each of you spends an hour or so on alternating nights trying to drive the other person into climbing the walls by triggering all of their erogenous zones that by the end of the first week you each will be wanting to completely throw out the rulebook.

The best of luck to you and your wife.

Think she will trigger him badly in any sexual activity between them NOW.....(this is just weeks past a 'give up' rollercoaster dip) even sensual contact. His perfomance concerns IS not front and center. Would continue to slow things and maintain activities together that are not sexual / sensual. That for later....a while later. Think as much activities together with the kids as they can do as Wal. doesn't doubt her abilities as their mother. Allows them to strengthen a bond between them that is free from triggers and was not direcly stressed during the affair (there was time diverted from them but affairs always steal family time from them all). stretch

Another possibility is that finding the courage to be honest and reading the thread may be giant turn-ons for both Walloped and his W.

Time will tell.

Let go of the outcome, Walloped. Have faith in yourself to survive and thrive.

sisoon,

Perhaps it will. But I am in no rush and time will tell. And yes, I am not focused on the outcome - I know what I am working towards, but I am doing what I feel I must now and the outcome will be what it will be (cue Doris Day - two points if you can name the movie).

Thanks.

Jaws 3D?

Walloped, I have followed your story from the beginning and I want to say to you something from someone who has been married longer than you have been alive. First, some people DO learn from their mistakes and will never repeat them. Second, look at your wife and ask yourself, "Do I love this woman and want to spend the rest of my life with her." (From your post I think you do) Third is something a very old friend of mine sent to me years ago. "Love doesn't mean that you can live with her. Love means you can't live without her." Having been a professional soldier I can tell you that with enough time and care even the worst wounds will heal.

Hi Walloped,

I am really late to this post. I have mostly been of SI since my divorce was final in September. Was wondering how you were doing. I want to say, don't give up. Your WW seems to really realize the huge mistake she made. I believe you can still have a good life with her. One thing I do know, is that divorce does not always take away the pain. You sound a lot like me. My two adult daughters do not have a relationship with their WW mother. Found out that the WW is not longer with her affair partner, so not happy ever after there either. I have a two month old GS , who the WW has not been allowed to see either. Even with all this, I wish she had been willing to try to work it thru instead of running for the hills. YOU CAN DO THIS. I wish you God's blessing as you go forward.

Hi Walloped

I've been following your posts, and aside from Spaceghost's story, I feel the most for you.

I don't know if this will help, but here is what helped me work through things. I used to think infidelity was unforgivable, but I no longer think so.

But before I get to that, let me comment on sharing your feelings and your posts. I am a closed off person as well. Are you sharing your feelings for your benefit or for hers? I don't think you owe her insight into your feelings if it doesn't help you.

In fact, a lot of the reading I've done suggests that sharing your feelings and emotions may make things worse. At least my personal experience is that women are always asking men to share their feelings but when you do share them, they're often repelled by the vulnerability. I know it's a redpill thing to say, but women really do detest men who are emotionally too open or vulnerable. They have it right on that, in my experience.

So onto what helped me come to terms:

1 - I came to realize that cheating is very common. I wish it were different, but if you've been cheated on, you unfortunately have a lot of company. Reading a book called Sperm Wars put a lot of thing in perspective, especially when I read that 90% of sperm are not for fertilization but rather fighting sperm from other men in women's reproductive tract.

Up 10% of children are being raised by fathers who believe that they're biologically his when they are not. The literature varies quite a bit on this, but the confidence interval for most of the studies overlap 10%. Also, I know people who make a living doing paternity tests. They confirm 10%, even after taking into account potential biased sampling.

I've had to accept that my marriage is not special, nor my wife. We're not 1 in a million. I wish we were different, but I'd rather face reality than fool myself any longer.

2 - I understand now that no person can be perfect. Just as a parent can make horrible mistakes with a child, a wife can make horrible mistakes with her husband, even do inexcusable things. Do we have to forgive them? No. But can we choose to? Yes.

3 - I came to accept that I can't and shouldn't depend on my wife for my self worth. I think many men, including myself in the past, devote their lives toward making their wife happy. "I'm a good person because I am such a good husband."

No, you're a good person because you're a good person.

You gave up a job at Goldman for your family. That's great. I gave up things in my career as well. Do I regret it? No. I chose to do so, and I would again.

What I wouldn't do again is to make my wife the centerpiece of my life. That's actually not fair to her, and puts a lot of pressure on her. Sort of like parents who live vicariously through the accomplishments of their kids. Put the oxygen mask on yourself first before helping others.

Is that a sad way to live a life? In a way, yes. It runs counter to the Disney version of a a marriage. In a way though, it's a bit sad for a guy to be devoting 100% of his whole life to his wife and 0% for himself. Which was me. It may be you, or not. I'm just telling you what it was for me.

I can tell you that I've come to realize very few women, perhaps less than 10% of them live that way. Most of them live 80%-90% of their lives for their children. The rest gets split up between themselves and their husband.

So this means that the question was no longer, "is my wife the perfect woman who deserves my undying and unconditional love" but rather, "is my wife a good woman who made a mistake but is a woman whom I still love, albeit conditionally," and "can I ever get over the thoughts of the affair?"

I've also come to realize that whoever I marry if I were to divorce and remarry, may cheat. There is no way to guarantee they won't. That's not the reality of marriage. If my wife, who I thought was perfect in every way, cheated, and your wife who sounds perfect in every way, cheated, then anyone can cheat. Disney marriage, I would still like to believe in, but I now put it in the same category as Saint Nick.

So in sum, you will probably never get back to the blissful version of marriage you had before - with your wife or anyone else. But you can build something that may be almost as good, or perhaps just as good, with her or someone else.

Some people can never get over infidelity, and that's OK. I thought I was one of those people, but have found that I am not.

P.S. - By the way, don't stop working out. Don't forget to live for yourself as well as for your family.

[This message edited by french123 at 5:13 PM, February 18th (Thursday)]

french123.......That is some of the best advice I have heard one man give another. You walked through the fire and came out as a man who knows himself and understands his life and what will make him happy. I hope Walloped takes it to heart for I am pulling for him and his wife.