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This feels so blatantly false at a visceral level. 45 minutes at a hotel is, as I'm sure you have considered millions of times, enough of a window for sex and clean-up.

And enough time to order coffee and sandwich to eat on the way to work afterwards. It also makes ZERO sense that WW and OM didn't want to be seen in public and risk being outed but were totally cool with possibly being seen at or coming out of a hotel together as if that isn't 100x more incriminating.

I'm aware of its potential significance but, the MIL has form for making comments simply when she wants to argue a point she thinks she can defend. She's never interested in intellectual honesty but, rather, ego and, sticking to a point (even if its indefensible).

Maybe she really is that ridiculous but it's hard to imagine why she'd even think it was a good idea to bring up the possibility if she wants to defend your WW and doesn't believe your WW had a PA. Either she thinks your WW is still lying or she KNOWS there's more to the story because your WW told her. Otherwise, she's a complete idiot to even mention it when supposedly it wouldn't even apply to your situation.

MIL then made a comment about a positive STD test not proving anything other than what someone is infected with, not where they got it from

This is classic gaslighting from your MIL. Tell her you won’t discuss it again with her. Her implications are offensive and inappropriate in light of what everyone knows. No good can come from being embroiled in discussions with this woman.

he said that he couldn't understand how I could ever trust my wife/his daughter again (I've never seen him emotional -- he was a wreck), whereas my MIL pretty much stayed silent.

I’m wondering if your MIL is an adulterer, and your wife learned at her knee. I’m wondering if this poor man your FIL has been so traumatized and gaslighted by his wife, and that’s part of the reason he himself started having a panic attack?

This feels so blatantly false at a visceral level. 45 minutes at a hotel is, as I'm sure you have considered millions of times, enough of a window for sex and clean-up

Yes, naturally I'm not blind to this but (as remote as it is and, it's only a matter of time before I know) there's a possibility what she's saying is true. I can understand them driving to somewhere out of built-up areas, since they couldn't be seen in a coffee shop during work hours (various members of the public would recognise them 'socialising' on the job and, these same people most-likely wouldn't be at the hotels). I also think it was his suggestion and, leading up to a point where they would book a room (if they haven't done that already). However, as I've said before, I know for certain the intent was there.

[This message edited by BSPheonix at 7:41 AM, December 5th (Thursday)]

I’d like to point out that even if the posters here have been through similar experiences, when we post, it’s just "words". However, you had to take those actions, you are the one who took a stand, who took control of the situation. I am very impressed, congratulations to you sir.

Exactly. What he said.

I did some of the things you’ve done but not all of it. I’m in limbo at year 3 because I didn’t do all of the necessary steps right away, which is why I’m here at SI exhorting others to do exactly what you’ve done. It puts a spring in my step knowing you are at least ahead of the game and are putting yourself in a much stronger position whether you D or R.

Stay strong. The gaslighting, blameshifting, sex bribery, love bombing, convenient panic attacks, sobbing hysterically and more are far from over. There’s more of that ahead and you should steel yourself.

I’m wondering if your MIL is an adulterer,

I've wondered the same over the past 7 years (as has my wife and her siblings). She's been incredibly close to her new best friend since then and, does everything with her (to the exclusion of immediate family -- including children's birthday parties and, shopping for my wife's wedding dress). She's a piece of work and has power and influence over my daughter. As I've said, I need to think long and hard about how to manage her and, the poison she can feed my wife. No one in the immediate family challenges her. I do.

[Thumos said:]I’m in limbo at year 3 because I didn’t do all of the necessary steps right away

You mind if I ask why? Do you have unanswered questions about the events? No probs if you don't want to disclose. Thanks

No one in the immediate family challenges her. I do.

If that’s true watch out (and I don’t mean that in a paranoid Agatha Christie way, but rather stay frosty that she doesn’t sabotage you in other ways).

She sounds like a pretty cold fish.

Timeline:

Oh yeah, from her own account I also realised that, the day she drove our car into a wall was the alleged last day she had a hotel meet. She sent me a picture on the day, showing about $3000 damage; I replied telling her not to worry, that material things aren't the important things in life; love and relationships are

BS, Don’t want to threadjack so you can read the details of my own shitshow here:

https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=640195

Short version: Because I didn’t make a written timeline or poly a nonnegotiable until recently I’ve been twisting in the wind and participating in rugsweeping. I was about to leave my wife in August but decided to give it a last ditch effort and laid down the law for her.

Anyway, guess what my wife recently had after it became clear I’m not backing away from the poly? you guessed it. A panic attack, complete with an ER visit - My MIL took her to the ER.

It’s become abundantly clear to me how adulterers say and do the same things over and over — thus it’s not surprising that a certain formula can get a faithful spouse clear of the situation. So I summarized what everyone has said repeatedly in this forum into the “package of non negotiables” and I’m going to repeat it over and over until it starts really sinking in.

It’s not a panacea, it’s a prerequisite to getting clear of infidelity. And it doesn’t decide for you whether to R or D. But you’re now confirming that it WORKS amazingly well to put a stop to an adulterer’s antics and lights the cheaters’ script on fire. It gives you the space and information you need to make an informed decision that’s best for you.

she drove our car into a wall was the alleged last day she had a hotel meet.

Because she had just had sex with him and her internal biochemistry, adrenaline etc were off the charts and she was distracted. Adds up.

Because she had just had sex with him

As you know, I'm accepting of the fact that it's more likely than not that they did have sex but, on this occasion, I doubt it. I think the car was damaged on the way there (given the time of morning it was, when she'd left the house etc.).

I think the car was damaged on the way there (given the time of morning it was, when she'd left the house etc.).

Ah ok. Then it was nerves, if you think about it. She was hyped up.

I know you’ve already accepted sex more than likely happened. Just wanted to point to this detail as likely being more confirmatory that she was in deep with this man. She was hyped up and not paying attention to her driving.

Yes, agreed. I'd put it down to at least being nerves. She claims not to remember. I doubt that.

Did you ask her to go to IC?

She claims not to remember. I doubt that.

She doesn't remember how she drove her car into a wall...was this a wall at the hotel?

To many people "I don't remember" is better than lying and saying "I didn't do it". It is a go-to for politicians and cheating spouses. See, I didn't lie to you, I just don't remember...

is it possible OM was driving her car ? a good question to add for the polygraph, 3,000 is no chump change and even if the insurance company paid for it you most likely had to pay for the deductible.

Does it matter to you whether she had sexual contact with him? Like, is that a line that, if she crossed, you wouldn't be able to ever accept?

I ask these questions because I can say without hesitation (or proof) that she has had sex with him. In all the decades I've had the misfortune to be involved with infidelity I've never known of a single case where a EA did not go physical if the cheaters ever have been in physical proximity. Never, not once. She knows that unless she confesses or you have video of her fucking him that you can never know for sure. That's her trump card and she'll play it as long as she can get away with it. If you are able to put together enough evidence like hotel receipts or confession of her affair partner and so forth you may be able to get her to confess, but nothing short of that will ever get it out of her. Just know she's lying, they had plenty of sex, and her plan is to take those facts to her grave.

I've never known of a single case where a EA did not go physical if the cheaters ever have been in physical proximity.

Agreed. Once the deep kissing barrier is breached, sex is only a matter of time. As in weeks.

My WW confessed to “one time” sex a week after D-Day. To my surprise, I stayed but it has festered. I don’t think she’s telling the truth and I failed to rip off the band-aid with a written timeline and polygraph. I’m only now getting that.

Ripping off that band aid and getting as full a confession as you can is vitally important.

If everything she has told you thus far was the complete truth, she would have j7mped at the chance to take the poly. What better way to put your questions and concerns to rest?

Since it basically took you threatening to leave and file for her to concede, you can bet there is more.