SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Your mil sounds like my mil. Until my wh did a ton of ic about his relati9ndhip with her and his upbringing, he did not get it. He had never had a consequence for his actions because mom always fixed it or ignored it - if he was perfect she was perfect and nothing was going to get in the way of her perfect image. Nothing. Makes for a difficult partner. Every ic and mc told him his affair was a big fuck you to his mom, not the marriage. Of course, she blamed me. I have been no contact - none - with her for 5 years. Best thing I ever did for my mental health. A complete narcissistic manipulator. And a terrible person who also happens to be a therapist, smh.

The mc asked him “ do you want to divorce your mother or your wife? Because you absolutely have to choose.” Had he chosen to divorce me, he would be flitting from shiny object to shiny object, putting himself first and bpnever considering the pain he was causing, because mom taught him that there is only ever one winner and everybody else is a loser. I tend to believe that in a family and with relationships, we can all win together, no one needs to lose. As long as she was in my marriage, we were fucked, except when I voiced that, I was told I was a hateful person who didn’t want her to be happy, how dare I. I was gaslit for 25 years. The clarity now is amazing. Proceed with your eyes open.

What NorthGal said.

In a narcissist relationship, you have a winner and a loser.

Also the narcissist child stays loyal to his parents, even after he/she gets married. The umbilical cord never gets cut. So if your spouse had married another narcissit, she would be good to go. Fits right into the family dynamics. Mommy and dil/sil will be Mommy's bff. If you are a not a narcissit, then you are wrong. You being you is wrong. Mommy will always have the "right" to give her expert opinion, drag her feet if she thinks it's something that you want and not your spouse or ignore whatever you want because Mommy knows her kid and her kid definitely wouldn't want that. So tough if you want something. And if you insist? OMG. You ungrateful arse! They were just doing it from the bottom of their heart, they were doing you huge favor and you are SO UNAPPRECIATIVE. And controlling. Whatever you will do will come back as the proof that you are shit. And the proof that your poor spouse is a victim of you. Hence her comment that your wife should have had an affair a few years ago.

The convos will make you wonder if you are in loopy land. Though it's pretty useful because after a while you will realise how nuts it all is. The pecking order hierarchy, the arguments, the words salad etc. Helps detach, lol.

double post.

[This message edited by EmbraceTheChange at 9:02 AM, December 6th (Friday)]

BSPheonix, how are things

Typing this from my mobile (which I loathe doing). Things are going well. STD test done. All clear. Been working on post nup (I may have mentioned that already, not sure and difficult to navigate post history via phone). I am being treated like royalty but it's early days. VAR reveals no significant conversations. I've also hidden an old phone in my WW's car so I can get location data from that, rather than having to sneak looks at her own phone. I'm still looking after myself better than I have in years (eating,exercising, sleep) which I don't think I've mentioned before. I'm beginning to feel like a new man. Women at work seem to be noticing, not that I'm interested. Life is strange.

All good news.

Women at work seem to be noticing, not that I'm interested. Life is strange.

This will likely continue. It's like once a WW has severed the important pair bond connections with her husband other women can sense it.

Like you, I spent a lot of time getting in much better shape, something that was already happening before her affair. In any case, after the affair, it only picked up speed. And lots of women definitely have noticed.

This is great for your self confidence, just don't fall into a revenge affair. You'll only add complications to your life you don't need. I'm in year 3 with my WW and I haven't engaged in an RA and have no plans to.

Another great thing about the newfound attention from women is that you'll really start looking at your WW with new eyes. She took herself off the pedestal, and now you're getting "pings" of interest from lots of quality, attractive women ... who've never cheated on you!

Your wife looks pretty mundane by comparison. I think this is a really important thing and helps us make a more informed decision about R or D.

She's nothing really special and she never was.

You want to state for any reason b/c if five years from now you divorce b/c you just don’t want to be married to her any longer (just using a random example) the post nup still is valid. If you state “divorce due to infidelity” in the post nup it may not hold up in a court of law years later if she has not cheated again.

Yes, you're right. The conditions I stated were simply ones I committed to email, not the post-nup content (which we're working on). I should have been clear. Thanks for the sound advice.

If everything she has told you thus far was the complete truth, she would have jumped at the chance to take the poly. What better way to put your questions and concerns to rest?

Since it basically took you threatening to leave and file for her to concede, you can bet there is more.

She actually didn't resist and, has always said she would do a poly. However, that doesn't mean I believe her. For all I know she's told her parents behind my back that she thinks I'm crazy...who knows.

Also, potentially a trivial point but, my WW seemed to change when I took my wedding ring off and told her that what it signified is over and, if we're to have a second marriage, then (if/when it's appropriate) we need new rings or, something symbolic to mark the break and re-start. That hit home for her I think. As did telling her that I really would divorce her if she needed something more concrete to evidence my opinion on our marriage being over.

My WW seemed to change when I took my wedding ring off and told her that what it signified is over

That seems to be one of the best red pills to give a WS.

You are taking all the right steps and that speaks volumes of your character. You are almost at the end of the beginning, continue to prepare for the worst and working on your self healing.You are a good man Phoenix, I hope things come up your way for you and your family.

BSPheonix, sounds like things are moving in a great direction for you.

I'm hoping for the best for you, and since I spent some time commenting on your thread, I wanted to let you know I'm stepping away for a bit as I approach the disclosure session with my own WW, polygraph after that, holiday season, decisions.

I want to calm my mind and carve out some space as much as possible. Be well!

How are you doing? Really ?

It seems like you have an action plan in place and it helps to have a focus. I mean where are you at mentally ?

It is a round about way of asking if you are doing ok.

Good luck Thumos and, thanks for your posts.

How are you doing? Really ?

I'm doing OK, thanks. I don't take delight in exerting control. I don't do so well when I catch myself dwelling on all that was required of my WW to be so contemptful and deceitful; in those moments I feel that I may be doing this for the children.

[This message edited by BSPheonix at 4:05 PM, December 10th (Tuesday)]

You are correct to consider the marriage over and done because of her cheating.

I think the car was wreaked because she had made up her mind that she was going to have sex with him that day and was day dreaming of what she would do and what he would do to her. She really wanted sex with him that day.

Be sure to follow through with the poly because parking lot confessions are common. A cheater will continue to lie right up to the point of walking into the office.

Don't assume it is best for your children if you stay together. If you cannot forgive what she has done, they will sense the tension in the home and that will affect them. And be truthful with them (age appropriate).

I told my 11 years old that "Mom has a boyfriend and that is not allowed when married. She broke her promise to me so she had to leave for a while".

I am going to throw another opinion in here. I don’t believe in polygraphs. From a legal standpoint they are iffy as hell. I grew up with a cheater in my family. It had a profound affect on me. There have been times when the truth sounded so off that I would blush and feel my heart rate go through the roof even though I was totally honest. I would probably fail any polygraph.

I do think VARs are very important. They get you real time info and protect you.

I am going to throw another opinion in here. I don’t believe in polygraphs. From a legal standpoint they are iffy as hell. I grew up with a cheater in my family. It had a profound affect on me. There have been times when the truth sounded so off that I would blush and feel my heart rate go through the roof even though I was totally honest. I would probably fail any polygraph.

There are debates about polygraphs and I think those of us advocating have acknowledged those debates. That said, polygraphs are accurate (more accurate with one question about the infidelity) and examiners can account for anxiety, heart and respiration rate, etc. in order to set the baseline for truthfulness. So nervousness or even high anxiety really can't be used as an out by wayward spouses.

In addition, polygraphs are routinely used by the FBI, U.S. Senate, the intel community, big corporations etc. If it's good enough for them, it's good enough for me.

Lastly, the purpose of the polygraph is twofold: 1) To ascertain whether the spouse has told the truth and 2) to exert psychic pressure on the wayward spouse to come clean BEFORE the polygraph.

On this last point, the poly is incredibly effective. It is a tool to game the adulterer and they deserve to be gamed. Parking lot confessions happen routinely and we've just read about one here on SI in the past few weeks.

It's not cruel to put the wayward spouse under this kind of pressure, it's just rational and smart. The wayward spouse unilaterally opened the marriage, exposed their faithful partner to life-altering disease and disregarded their partner's mental and physical health.

A polygraph is the LEAST a cheating spouse can do to begin to provide restitution and restore a baseline of some trust.

Don't back down on the polygraph.

Stay strong.

Get it done.

BSPheonix,fellow U.K here ,feels like you are doing a bit better now since your wife has finally got her head out of her backside .Seems like you have gone through what the country has just gone through ,with Brexit and election.,little bits of truth getting mixed up with blatant lies.

Have you researched polygraphs ie cost,and whereabouts you can get them done ,wish our politicians could have got hooked up to them instead of the debates that we had to listen to..

It seems like our American members can get them pretty easily,not quite the case here if you aren't in London or nearby..

Any way hope you have great Xmas ,hopefully not with your in laws,fact good Xmas present to your father in law would be a gift voucher for a polygraph for his wife .

I took my wedding ring off and told her that what it signified is over.

And here we have the real reason for the interest of other women. They noticed that you no longer wear your wedding band. Women notice when a man that has worn a wedding ring for years suddenly stops wearing it.

To them, it means you are back on the market. Fair game.

My WW seemed to change when I took my wedding ring off and told her that what it signified is over

Just want to caution you on this. My WH took me to get a new ring in September. Spent a fortune. He also got a new one (I really was unsure of why he needed a new one). In any event, he was still lying to me. I can't believe he went through with that knowing what he knew he hadn't shared with me. It's possible that has woken her up, but it's also possible it didn't. I'm in awe of how the wayward mind works every day.

[This message edited by layla1234 at 10:21 AM, December 15th (Sunday)]