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Stay strong

[This message edited by Marc878 at 8:46 PM, May 9th (Monday)]

she knew there was no future with this guy

She said she doesn't want to be single mom...

I really believe that this is the reason why she wants to R. Imagine for a moment if OM was someone older and fully prepared to be a stepdad. Do you really believe she wouldn't be pushing for a D right now? She doesn't want R because she loves you, realizes how much she hurt you and damaged the M, and wants to make amends. She's R'ing because the OM will not step up to be a parent and her friends are grilling her for being a lying cheat. You're not anywhere in the equation other than you'll happily take care of the kids and give her very few consequences for the massive amount of disrespect she gives you. Basically, you put up with her shit and it's better than being alone. Let that sink in for a minute.

MC seems like a terrible idea right now. She needs IC, NC letter, full honesty, and to give you full transparency through accounts, passwords, and access to her phone first. She admits to having trouble letting him go. It's not likely that she will be able to make a clean break from him. You never know when she will want one last weekend getaway and you will be right back to square one. She isn't being a safe partner and though it seems like she's coming around since she isn't leaving the OM for you today, keeping the marriage as a backup is straight out of the cheater's handbook. This isn't the positive sign you want to believe it is and it would be wise to not put too much faith into it until you have accountability and transparency from her.

What nekonamida said. Your wayward (inadvertently) let her real reason slip. She does not want to be a single mother... Not exactly a ringing endorsement for reconciliation or remorse. Reconciliation only works with a remorseful partner that is all in to fix what they broke. I would be very, very suspicious of her sudden change of heart.

Agreed, she told you why - she loves you, but she said:

Said she was sick of living in an affair

She said she doesn't want to be single mom

It is difficult to look at her favorably. Cheating is one thing, but the way she did it, IN YOUR FACE, is extremely cruel. Watching her primp and have her say goodbye to tell you she is going away for a weekend on Mother's Day. How could someone be that cruel? The only thing I think it could be worse is if she brought the guy over into her bedroom while you were with the kids in the living room. On top of it, she picked an early 20s guy. While ATV'ing. All cheating is ugly, but this is a different level.

I see you want to reconcile. I think you still have a long way to go, because when push goes to shove, I think she will not want to write a "no contact" message to him. I think something may have happened with the guy, maybe he got upset about her texting her husband while she was away this weekend on his dime in the hotel. He may have felt that disrespectful and called her on it.

Do not back down. She will push the limits, she wants to continue the affair AND keep you at home. She WANTS both and she won't give up either of you easily. That's what I think. But I think she will back down eventually if you don't back down first. In the meantime, you have to consider about her, the marriage dynamic, and whether you truly want to continue in it.

You have to force the issue. You can do it now, or 2 weeks from now, or a month from now, etc. DO IT NOW while you have the momentum and other life events make you delay. She will never find the "right time." She will need "closure," which will turn into one more F session, which will need another meet for "closure."

Spot on. I guarantee if you do not push this situation, she will continue this affair for as long as she can.

Even with this, she is nowhere near a candidate for R. Her words literally define you as Plan B.

You deserve so much more than this from a partner. Forget MC----she needs to get right into IC, and then you can continue to detach, and monitor to see if she is showing ANY remorse....because there is none right now. You want to R so bad(and I understand this completely) that you are willing to accept scraps that she tosses your way. Again, I am not saying this to be insulting; I am just trying to echo what all the others her are screaming---these conditions of hers are not acceptable.

1. The affair ends this minute....if it hasn't already. Short NC letter like previously described. No "closure" horseshit.

2. An IMMEDIATE verbal commitment to you and the marriage. Actions that back up that commitment---all passwords, full transparency, and no resistance/reluctance/resentment in doing so.

3. IC starts as soon as possible. One that is experienced in infidelity. It is HER job to find a counselor, and get her ass over there.

As for your actions:

1. Get an appointment with an attorney right now. Consider having divorce papers drawn up, and ready to serve at any given notice.

2. Protect yourself financially. Terminate joint cards. Set up separate accounts in your name only. Check with your lawyer about this.

3. Stay inflexible on your bare minimums....see all of the above.

This isn't about playing a game of chicken. And I can assure you that this behavior from you will not "drive her away". Remember, the above are BARE MINIMUMS, and if she isn't willing to eagerly start these, then she doesn't have the desire to save the marriage. You simply wouldn't be worth the effort.

I repeat, you deserve far better than that. Demand it.

Sorry, late to the party. All the advice you've gotten is spot on.

This is telling:

She's not taking two weeks to end it, she told me when we first started talking about it last night that she knew there was no future with this guy and she would have ended it in two weeks tops, even if I didn't force it. She knows that she needs to end it with him asap. Hope that makes more sense.

So, she figured there were two more weeks to have fun and screw the guy? What are YOU to her? Just a schlep?

Really, everything she's told you is all about her. What she thought, felt, doesn't want to be a single mom (does she have a job that can support herself and loverboy?), etc.

What about how she feels about how she hurt you? I didn't hear a thing about that. I'm guessing she's expecting you to just get over it.

That's not remorse. It's just regret that you threatened D. I can almost guarantee that when the threat of D is removed, you'll get the "We still talk because we're friends." line.

But that said, you can test her commitment to this:

1) No Contact with OM as of this second.

2) You have all access to phone, computer, etc. passwords

3) Tracking devices/software go on the phone, car. Any deactivation for any period of time? No.

4) She reads and gives you a report on "Not Just Friends" and whatever other how to heal book you choose.

See what happens and how fast. If she's is all over it in the first 24 hours, maybe you have a shot. If after a week, you are getting excuses, well, you've just exposed her BS lie.

How are you doing DestroyedOne?

I know that some of the opinions and advice here are hard to take, but please understand:

1. We know EXACTLY how you feel - we've been there.

2. We've seen the strangely predictable behaviour of Waywards many times. There are patterns.

3. We truly, honestly want to help minimize your suffering and get you OUT of infidelity for good.

Around here, you take what you need and leave the rest, but make sure you consider it all because it is delivered from a wealth of personal experience.

Keep your chin up, and keep posting.

Hey, man. I just wanted to chime in here and remind you that we all know how painful and scary this shit can be. It feels like your whole world has turned upside down and nothing makes any sense at all anymore. I'm sure you wake up every morning wondering what sort of shit you'll be dealing with today and how the in the world are you going to get through the daily routine? Kids, school, work, lunch, the boss, the stress... and all the while feeling like you're held together by Scotch tape and Band Aids.

I just wanted to remind you to take care of yourself as best you can.

Eat, healthy foods.

Drink lots of water. Your body will be in hyper-drive for a while and it's going to need it.

Sleep and rest when you can. If you can't sleep, try some OTC sleep aids. If that doesn't help, talk to your doctor.

Exercise. Even if you've never worked out a single day in the your life, you'll find that endorphins really are Nature's best pain-killer. And it will also help you sleep. So take walks, bike a while, hit the gym.

Start a Journal. I know it sounds strange, but for a lot of people, a few minutes each day of writing down your thoughts and feelings can be a great way to help yourself sort through it all.

No alcohol or drugs. The occasional drink is okay, but getting wasted won't help, it will only make it worse. Just saying.

Read in The Healing Library! There are a ton of great essays in there, all by members of this community, veterans of R and D, people have been through it all and come out of the other side happy, healthy and whole.

Remember, there is no justification for infidelity. None. Zero. Zilch! She has no one to blame but herself.

I don't know whether or not I would believe that she would have ended it a couple of weeks because there was clearly no future with this kid. Maybe that's why she chose him, because he was "safe," no strings attached! It's entirely possible. The thing is, man, it takes a tremendous amount of lying to oneself to indulge in an affair (or any other self-destructive behavior). Whether or not she's lying to you is almost irrelevant compared to all the lies she's told herself.

But, if you really want to know where she stands, ask to end the affair right now. Look in the eyes and ask her to sit down at the computer or tablet or whatever (pen and paper work) and have her inform this kid that it's over. Period. End of story. I've known people who did it all on speaker phone, just to be perfectly clear that everyone understands the situation perfectly. Not tomorrow, not next week. Right now. This instant!

There's no time like the present, you know?

[This message edited by Unhinged at 10:53 AM, May 10th (Tuesday)]

I told you all that I would post again when I had a bit more time. I wanted to give you an update on what's going on and where I'm at mentally.

First off, our conversation on Sunday night was long (around 2 hours) and I barely scratched the surface on what was discussed. I started the conversation with the full intent to divorce. I had no real belief that R was possible.

I actually sat down with a lawyer on Saturday and did a 'preliminary' meeting. Nothing paid, just going over my options and seeing how the legalities played out in my state (Alaska). It's not that complicated up here. It's a no-fault, gender neutral state. They don't care if there's been infidelity or if both parents are Spouse of the Year material. They don't care if the man makes more than the woman or less. Custody is as close to 50% as possible unless the spouses want something different. Child support is completely based on what each former spouse makes in their job and is not based on gender. My wife makes less than I do but she only works part-time as an RN. She could easily work more and make as much as me, so according to the lawyer there would be no child support either way. Assets and liabilities are added up and divided in half, or as close to half as realistically possible. So according to lawyer any detective work or documentation is a waste of my time (from a legal perspective). I mean if I can prove she is literally an unfit mother than that's a different story, but she's not really. At least no more than I am. I'm going into all these details so that you all will understand why I'm not bothering with recording our conversations or any shit like that. It would be a waste of my time.

I waited until the kids were in bed, then sat her down by the fire and told her that I was done with the marriage and was going to file for divorce. I told her that the woman that I had married would have never done any of the things that she's been doing. I told her that the final straw was her leaving for Mother's Day weekend to be with this guy. She admitted that it was fucked up and said that she can't figure out what's wrong with herself. I asked her if she had even played the tape forward to think about how all this was going to resolve with what she's been doing. Her answer was, "I don't know."

I told her that I'm sick to fucking death of "I don't know," that she's not a teenager and that "I don't know" when you're destroying YOUR life and the lives of 3 other people is the answer of a 15 year old. She said that I'm right. I told her that one of her problems is that she keeps herself so manically busy that she never takes the time to even think about what she's doing. Again, she agreed.

I asked her what possible future she even sees with this guy. She said, "None. He's a nice young man (yeah right), very sweet, but there is absolutely no future with him." My response was, so you're willing to burn your life down around you for someone where you don't even have a future. She said that she couldn't even see herself with him for more than another two weeks, tops, no matter what else happens. Not going to go into too much else with that part of the convo since it's been covered her already. Lots of bullshit and most of it she never thought through to any real extent.

Another point that stood out in our conversation was when she said that for the longest time, she thought her problem was that she didn't want to have a family at all. Not be a wife OR a mother. But I went to visit my family for a week a couple of weeks ago, and she realized how nice it was to just hang out with the kids alone. How relaxing and pleasant it was. My response was, of course it is relaxing and pleasant. Of COURSE it's stressful when we're around each other. You're having an affair right in front of me. You could see from the look on her face that it had never even crossed her damn mind. Jesus.

I honestly don't think that she ever expected me to get to the point that I'd file for divorce. I truly think that it rattled her. But I'm a recovering alcoholic and I know how the mind works when you've been getting away with something for a long time. Real consequences will wake you up and get you to change, not 'near misses.' At least not for people who are truly spiraling towards self-destruction. Some people might have too much to drink, drive home, and wake up the next morning vowing NEVER to do it again, and actually follow through. I never could and it took an actual DUI with jail time and massive consequences to get me to go to AA and completely quit drinking.

Yeah, she's still in la-la land. She's expecting you to "just get over it" and let her come back, no questions asked.

How relaxing and pleasant it was. My response was, of course it is relaxing and pleasant. Of COURSE it's stressful when we're around each other. You're having an affair right in front of me. You could see from the look on her face that it had never even crossed her damn mind. Jesus.

Oh, I got this one. "You are so angry. You have anger issues."

Yeah, my WW is having multiple affairs, spends every dime so that we can't pay the bills, and goes out partying 3-4 times a week and leave me home with the kids. Can you think of a reason why I might be angry.

Her response?

I know that last post was really long. I still didn't cover all the details of our conversation. But where we left it on Sunday night was, my two stipulations for not filing for divorce are (1) she ends it with OM immediately, and (2) we go to MC. She said, can I have until tomorrow to give you an answer. I know what you all are thinking, and if I had had you on my shoulders at the time I wouldn't have relented, but I felt like I had pushed a lot and told her that she could have until tomorrow (Monday).

Fast forward until Monday. I came home at lunch time and she was there. I had a fly fishing class that I was going to Monday night and she asked if she could come with me and bring the girls. I said that it was dependent on what we talked about last night. I said that she had asked me to give her until Monday to give me an answer, and she needed to give it. She said, "Yes, I'll end it with him." I said you'll end it with him immediately, and she said yes. I said that this means no contact whatsoever. Her response was, she has some shit at his place (of course) and will need to get it.

We left it there. We spent some time yesterday afternoon shopping and hanging out in town. All last night she was at the house with me and the kids. Today and the next two days she is working, and as an RN when she is working she is at work ALL day.

I know these two posts have been long but I'm almost done. I realize that I have not been perfectly playing this according to script, and that there were some things that I could have done better / been more firm. But this is a major difference from my frame of mind even just one week ago. I am committed to this and have truly gotten to a place where I can file for D and not have any regrets. It will make me sad but I'm done compromising.

Here's my thinking, and I wanted to get you guy's suggestions. Tonight after kids go to bed, I will bring up the stuff she has at his place and what her plans are to get it. Her response (I already know) will be to say, I don't know, I haven't thought about it yet. Which I know is BS but that's what she'll say. I'll say, you can have [mutual friend] go over and pick it up, or I can go with you to pick it up. She'll get frustrated and say, I haven't had time to think about it yet. I'll say, if that's the case, then you should be able to show me your phone and there shouldn't be any text messages between you and OM. If you had time to text him, you could have ended it.

I will remind her that I've already visited a lawyer, already gotten him to draw up the initial paperwork. All it will take is for me to call him and ask him to file. This is not me bluffing her anymore, and I'm telling you all this in total honesty. I would rather live alone than live with someone who will keep doing this shit to me and my kids.

That is my plan for tonight. 15 years of living with this woman I can generally gauge what she'll do and I'm pretty sure that's how she'll react. But I don't know what she'll say at the end.

Is it just me, or do any of the rest of you like this guy?

It sounds like you have control of your response to the situation. Good.

You seem to have a game plan and you are not afraid. Good.

She doesn't need that shit from his place. YOU tell HER that it is gone. Suck it up, Princess.

You are handling this extremely well. You will thank yourself in the future.

One last question, and I'll stop blowing up the board. I noticed that some of you are recommending she get IC first before I even bother with going to MC with her. This is the first I've considered it. Do you think that would be better? Is MC a waste of time for now?

Thanks again for all your support / advice.

I think she should be seeing an IC at the same time, at least.

As long as she's committed and invested, then I say go to MC. If she's still giving you the "I don't know" horse shit, then it's a waste of resources.

Why not leave the stuff there, and forget about it?

I had a bonfire with all clothes fWW had ever worn to OM's.

NC is NC. She is manipulating you a bit. Dragging this out for a drama filled "good bye my love" bullshit thing.

"I don't know" doesn't sound remorseful to me. Your comparison to addiction is t too far off though. AA principles will help you through this.

Yes. IC first. Some MCs won't even take you without the IC work at least being started and underway.

The MC's client is the marriage. The IC's client is the wayward spouse. Pretty big difference. What she did was a bit nuts (I'm not judging..just calling it straight)

Well one of the things she has at his house is a trailer and a $15k ATV, so we're getting it back. I'm with you all, I don't care about any of the rest of it.

Yeah, Canoe nailed.

Fuck that stuff. Do you really want to remember where it was every time you see it. Buy new shit. Small price to pay.

As for MC/IC. I would hold off on MC until she's (and you) done IC for a while. Until she really gets what she did and why she did it, MC will just devolve into what YOU did wrong in the marriage to contribute to its down fall.

That is not what you should be discussing in MC after infidelity. What you should be discussing is your pain, and how she can take steps to rebuild your trust in her. Only after that, do you start to talk about prior issues in the marriage. But MC's will gravitate to all the issues, as if they were equal.

Yeah, a gun shot wound to the gut is the same as not taking out the trash, or bringing her flowers every week.

Well one of the things she has at his house is a trailer and a $15k ATV

Oh, yeah. Get that shit back...maybe sell it, but definitely don't leave it. (I thought you were talking about clothes and a toothbrush)

But you go with her to get it, and bring a VAR in case douche nugget decides to start shit with you.

[This message edited by WornDown at 2:13 PM, May 10th (Tuesday)]

A trailer and an ATV?!?!? WTF?

You go get it back. No need for her to be there.

Better yet, let her sit in the car and watch as her 20 year old man quivers in his hiding place. Let her see that this is her shame, not yours. You are not ashamed or afraid to go take what's yours.