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Is this the same counselor your XGF talked to before deciding to jump off the bridge?

I would seriously reconsider your meeting.

Find a new counselor. One for you and you alone.

Strength

Is this the same counselor your XGF talked to before deciding to jump off the bridge?

Yeah. We had a couples session the day before that, and this counselor had done her best to convince my girlfriend that it was a terrible idea. I don't know what happened during their solo session, but I doubt that the counselor encouraged her. But anyway, despite that:

Find a new counselor. One for you and you alone.

I just made an appointment with another counselor. One that specializes in infidelity issues and in helping people leave bad relationships! I'm looking forward to it. Unfortunately I have to wait until the end of the month for my first appointment, but that's fine.

Glad to hear you're focusing on healing you

Yes apartment down the hall from ex is bad idea

i'm really sorry Toopol.

I agree it's a good idea to see a new counselor, but I'd keep the appointment with your current one for this Tuesday. Ask her wtf? Hear what she has to say. See if she knew about the cheating. If not, fill her in on the details. Then see what she has to say. If she has the potential to learn from her mistakes, it will make her a better counselor. And it will help her counsel your ex. After all, either your ex has lied to your counselor or your counselor has known all along and has been manipulating you. I'd want to know that.

If you want to make things easy on your girlfriend, make an angry ass of yourself. Then she'll think she made the right decision. Instead, be the loving, gentleman that you are.

One thing I'm not certain of is the telling of the story. I"m not sure if she would volunteer the truth to friends and family or not. Most waywards don't take responsibility. they blame their BS's. I personally think you should tell people simply that she had an affair and leave it at that. There's no reason for you to take the blame for the breakup. Don't be the knight in shining armor on this one. There's no honor in lying or letting a lie stand. Simply tell the truth but don't give any details.

Again, I'm sorry it didn't work out the way you wanted. In the end, it worked out for the best. I think she showed that she has no problem lying to you. You don't want that.

eta- go NC with her when she gets back. If you have to, kindly say goodbye. But make a clean break. listen to us on this one. there is absolutely NO good that can come from you remaining pals with her. Get her out of your life. It's best for both of you.

[This message edited by mike7 at 8:25 AM, June 18th (Saturday)]

I agree it's a good idea to see a new counselor, but I'd keep the appointment with your current one for this Tuesday. Ask her wtf? Hear what she has to say. See if she knew about the cheating.

My girlfriend claims that she told the counselor about the cheating on Wednesday, the day after our last joint session. So the counselor has never been in a session with me where she knew about it and didn't tell me. That seems to be consistent with her behavior so far. Who knows what would have happened if I hadn't found out on my own.

If you want to make things easy on your girlfriend, make an angry ass of yourself. Then she'll think she made the right decision. Instead, be the loving, gentleman that you are.

I've thought about being extra extra nice just to twist the knife. It's the only kind of revenge that appeals to a goody two-shoes like me. There's a dessert that I make for her that she loves (a cinnamon streusel pizza), and I thought about leaving one ready-to-bake in the fridge when I move out, just to make her even more miserable about what she was losing. But that still seems petty in the end. Better to try for a clean break.

One thing I'm not certain of is the telling of the story. I"m not sure if she would volunteer the truth to friends and family or not. Most waywards don't take responsibility. they blame their BS's. I personally think you should tell people simply that she had an affair and leave it at that. There's no reason for you to take the blame for the breakup. Don't be the knight in shining armor on this one. There's no honor in lying or letting a lie stand. Simply tell the truth but don't give any details.

I plan to tell some of my friends (mostly the ones that I met first) and just say nothing about it to other friends (mostly the ones that she met first). But I don't plan to be a martyr or let her lie about me. If she lies to any of them about it and I find out, I'm happy to correct the record. I have proof I can share, if need be (voicemails etc.).

[This message edited by toopol at 12:49 PM, June 18th (Saturday)]

Your strength is really shining through toopol. I know that you are still in pain. I so admire you.

The counselor should have reviewed with both of you his/her "Keeping Secrets" policy at the beginning of treatment. I would not expect your counselor to disclose information about your XWGF's session.

Find a counselor that you can start over with, one who hasn't shown some red flags and hasn't been gaslit/manipulated by your XWGF. One specializing in helping clients get out of toxic relationships sounds great! Go for that!

I am reading your first thread as I write this but could use some clarification.  If you or another poster could clarify please:

The OM she claimed in the beginning was a virgin but somehow gave her herpes, hep C?  Yet somehow she still thinks he was a virgin?

I sense you are in the US, what part of world is this guy?

How could this guy not be a player?

Have you discussed her background at all on this thread for possible FOO issues?

Finally you need to acknowledge why you broke up with mutual friends in a diplomatic manner.  I do not see why you need to share the STD issues but you do need to share the what.  A simple statement that:

"unfortunately time and distance was to much for her handle and she chose to allow another into this relationship on two different trips is to much to move pass.  I wish her well but at this time we need to move on".

[This message edited by JohnA1 at 2:30 PM, June 18th (Saturday)]

Honestly Im hoping you evolve and become a much better person than you were before this unfortunate and undesired situation, you are one of the people I check daily to see how they are holding up, glad you are doing okay bro.

We have another session with our therapist on Tuesday. I'm planning to keep the discussion to logistics and moving-on. I think I can have my stuff moved out by then, but I hope to convince her to move out after me anyway. It'll be her choice at that point, but I guess I'd rather find a new place than fight over it or risk living together any longer.

Ok, have your session but make your list of questions concerning logistics. Get a yes or no about her moving out don't. If she says maybe or she needs to think on it take it as a no. No, you should not be neighbors, you are to prone to her manipulation and will have trouble moving on if you live close by. You should begin packing for storage regardless... this might give you additional questions Who get's the gaming system? The CD?... If you don't get the questions out at this meeting forget it. You can't continue couples counseling you need to move on.

No, payback by being nice isn't an option. It will only lead her on and cause you more pain since you "can't" be mean. You ARE going to have to be "mean" at some point...What are you going to do when she starts calling at night to talk? Starts asking you for help setting up her new internet/computer? Asks if you could help her move a few things? Just wants a hug or to bring over dinner? All innocent enough things but not things that are going to help either of you detach.

Dude I was extra nice to my exWS during and after both the A and the Divorce, if you saw her now and before the A started she's a completely different person honestly she looks destroyed.... but not mentioning to hate on her just the actual truth, like I said if you want to make her regret it even more go for the cinnamon pizza if not then just leave and say your good-byes.

The counselor should have reviewed with both of you his/her "Keeping Secrets" policy at the beginning of treatment.

She did, and made it clear that she wouldn't help keep secrets. I just got out of a solo appointment with her. She said that she had told my girlfriend that she had to take my welfare and feelings into account, and that they had a "predicament", but that she was going to figure out the next step based on what my girlfriend decided to do next (which, in the event, was to tell me that she was choosing the other guy). Anyway, I do still like this counselor, and she has the advantage of having seen this whole story play out. I think I might continue to see her for IC in addition to the new counselor, at least for a few weeks.

The OM she claimed in the beginning was a virgin but somehow gave her herpes, hep C? Yet somehow she still thinks he was a virgin?

How could this guy not be a player?

He gave her herpes, but we don't know whether it was type 1 or 2. (The doctors told my girlfriend that the type didn't matter so she shouldn't bother with the test, which is annoying.) The other guy went and got tested, but he only got tested for type 2, which he claims came back negative. This opened up a possibility: he might have had oral type 1 (like 90% of the world) and passed it to her genitals via oral sex, which is an increasingly common occurrence. Thus, he still could have been a virgin. Who knows whether my girlfriend actually believes this to be the case or not.

I sense you are in the US, what part of world is this guy?

Yes, we're from the US. The other guy is in the middle east.

Have you discussed her background at all on this thread for possible FOO issues?

I haven't. She comes from a big Catholic family. Her parents were always working long hours and stressed out trying to make ends meet. Her mom is a great woman who we believe has unresolved issues from sexual abuse as a child (based on some oblique comments). Her dad is an extremely gruff, taciturn guy. Some of her siblings seem like they have issues (some divorces, one with old drug issues) but nothing too crazy, and many are lovely people.

Ok, have your session but make your list of questions concerning logistics.

I plan to move my stuff out to storage, so I should be able to make a list of all the open questions about who gets what.

You ARE going to have to be "mean" at some point.

I'm trying to precommit to maintaining clear boundaries. She has continued calling and I haven't picked up. When we do see each other, I don't want to act affectionate and I don't want to give her any semblance of hope for getting back together. This is partially for her sake (the sooner she moves on, the better) and partially because I really don't want to struggle with any lingering desires of my own. I'm sure she's going to throw herself at me, and it's going to suck, but I'm doing my best to prepare for it.

[This message edited by toopol at 7:43 PM, June 18th (Saturday)]

She just sent me another email, with the subject "100 Reasons Why I Love You". It's exactly what it sounds like. 4250 words comprising one hundred things she loved about me and the relationship.

I wasn't sure if I should even read it, but I did. It was bittersweet, but I'm surprised by how little difference it made in my feeling. Seriously, finding out that she had cheated a second time made me feel so, so sure that we can never come back from this.

I sent her this response:

Please stop sending emails like this, and please stop calling me.

I don't mean to be cruel. I really don't. But we broke up, and it's permanent, and I'm not open to reconsidering. The sooner you accept this and move on, the better it will be for both of us.

I heard secondhand (from a mutual friend she has apparently been calling) that she hasn't been eating or sleeping since I confronted her. It reminds me of how I felt after her first confession. I feel bad for her, but I know I'm in no position to help.

its interesting.

not only is she promiscuous, dishonest, and manipulative, she also appears to be stupid.

she chose him. So.... is she planning on moving to the middle east? or is bellhop boy planning on moving to her home?

You could send her an email. Since you chose him by lying to me and having sex with him, I've been wondering what your plans for the future are. Are you moving to be near him? Or is the young lad moving here? I'd like to see the fellow you broke up our relationship for. And no, we're not getting back together. After you cheated on me a SECOND time, when everything was on the line, there is no coming back. But I do hope you and he are happy.

Yeah... I would send that. But that's me. I'm not as nice as you or some of the other posters here.

hang in there toopol. I know you're sad. But would you really want her back now?

[This message edited by mike7 at 8:19 PM, June 18th (Saturday)]

I would bet money that she told the "friend" to tell you she wasn't eating or sleeping.

Excellent response to her e-mail!

So.... is she planning on moving to the middle east? or is bellhop boy planning on moving to her home?

Yeah, it's a shitshow. I think she mentioned early on that he had talked about them both moving to another country. Their love will conquer anything etc. etc.

She says that she can see now how stupid it is, but I wouldn't be surprised if she went back to him for temporary comfort. Then again, I don't think he'd appreciate her shattered state right now. I'm super curious to know what they've been saying to each other over the past couple of days. After sending me the breakup email, she added him as a friend on Facebook, but now I see that she has removed him again. So, yeah. Wish I could eavesdrop.

I would bet money that she told the "friend" to tell you she wasn't eating or sleeping.

Nah, the conversation didn't go like that. This friend started the conversation by making it super clear that she was on my side first and foremost (and offered to help me move out), and the detail about my girlfriend not eating/sleeping didn't come until later. In context, this friend seems pretty on-the-level.

i have to tell you toopol, I am proud of you.

I thought that despite what everyone was saying, you were doing the right thing by taking your time to see if you could forgive her. Yeah...I thought you were right, even though I gave you the devils advocate position. i believe in redemption.

I also thought her going back was a really stupid decision, but she argued for it. she made her bed.

And now, I think you're handling yourself as good as can be expected. You've made your decision, but you're trying to act honorably.

I think you're doing well. And I think you will meet someone in a few years that will make you happy. You'll be so grateful that all this has happened.

Toopol you need to change your name to lucky.

Girls like this are a dime a dozen.

Now you are free to find THE ONE.

Hoo boy. Just got another email. This one was addressed to the other guy and CCed to me:

[other guy],

I want to officially let you know that our relationship is over. The moment I broke up with [toopol], I knew I had made a mistake—the worst mistake of my life. I will never be able to forgive myself if I don't do all that is within my power to try to save things with [toopol]. I know he doesn't want to have anything to do with me anymore, but I can't just watch him walk away from what we have. I know he and I can have a happy life together if he gives me the chance to fix this and make things right again. I know he will never forget the pain I have inflicted upon him. But I will fight everyday for the rest of our lives to prove to him that I am a better woman than I have been for these past few months, that I love him and only him, and that I will never waver again. It may not be possible, but I have to try. I know now that I will never be able to forgive myself for ruining this relationship. I need to try to make it right because I know it is possible.

Please accept my sincere apologies for all that I have put you both through. I know I am the common denominator in your pain. I have been lost for a few months, but I am no longer unclear on what I want. I want [toopol]. I need [toopol]. I won't stop fighting for [toopol].

I am so sorry,

[girlfriend]

Ego kibbles for me, I guess! It does not make me feel better. Also, what a shitty mirror image of her breakup email to me.

I'm a little worried about the "I will fight everyday for the rest of our lives to prove..." stuff. I've been totally consistent in telling her that I'm not open to getting back together. She's going to come home to find that my stuff is all moved out and I'm on the other side of the country. She *has* to accept it at that point, right? Am I going to have to move to another city or something? :(

As long as you consistently remain NC, she'll eventually move on....but consistency is key. If you give in to her attempts - you're back to ground zero and you'll have to start all over again.