SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

A playlist doesn't represent a man's machoness. You say Adele, but aren't most of Adele's songs about empowerment?

Now you've been slapped in the face again and are now royally pissed off, why not hold on to a little bit of that anger and start to do stuff for yourself. Use it to detach.

My wife hates folding laundry.

So one day when she was not home, I threw all of her clothes all over the place. And I made a mess of her office. I was careful not to break anything or do any real damage. I just made a huge mess. Mostly of her clothes so she would have to refold everything.

It was childish, but very therapeutic in the short term.

True story: I spent a career as a lobbyist at our state Capitol (not Montana--that's just where I was born).

One of the Senator's wife found out he had been fucking his secretary (a not well-kept "secret" around the Capitol). So one sunny day, at about noon (to ensure maximum exposure to all his friends and colleagues) she took all his clothes and threw them all over those beautiful marble steps of our Capitol building.

Therapeutic? Sure was for her, I'll bet!

When I read your story it reminds me so much of another posters. Guy being totally taken advantage of by (extremely spoiled) wife, working multiple jobs, one child...You hear the same revelations coming out...understanding that while you are working your ass off for the family she can't even be faithful!?! Similar go girls...

Anyway, not sure if it would help to read a similar story. You can skip to just his words since it's so long.

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=582087

You say things like "could I find someone else to love a divorced man with a child." I think you've got to be kidding. What woman wouldn't want a man that is so hard working he would take multiple jobs for the family? That is faithful, smart and loving? As for having a young son...the right woman will see a caring father and a "perfect" boy not a burden. What I'm trying to say is that moving on does not mean you will be alone forever...this isn't your only shot at having a wonderful family.

When I read your story I feel like you have probably gotten by on so little from you're wife that a 50/50 relationship is going to blow you away.

What would I do? I'd do a hard 180. You need to see what ACTIONS she takes to save the marriage on her own. If it's all too, too hard on her, you will FOREVER be taking up her slack. When she wants to talk I'd focus the talks on her getting a job.

When you are ready I'd talk to a lawyer - I'm not saying divorce I'm saying get your ducks in a row, fear of the unknown is worse than fear of the known. I would also start to separate the accounts. Give her a certain amount for food, and what not but not free access to GoFUND exboyfriends. For her to do that while in the middle of marriage problems for her cheating???? That's nuts, that's not even trying to appear to "get it."

[This message edited by Freeme at 6:37 AM, November 5th (Saturday)]

Man. Those songs are lame. Lame I tell you. But at least it wasn't Gary Puckett. You know, young girl, woman woman, lady willpower, this girl is a woman now. Bet your WW loves those.

Whoa!!!!!

Now I'm going to need to remove that lyric quote from my signature line!(Take a Letter Maria)

You have found your anger! Use it to propel you forward and farther out from infidelity!

I am glad to know that I am not the only one with bad taste in music.

Holy cow! Some of those suggestions were terrible. I listened to some and felt like I needed to grow a mullet, get a firebird, and do doughnuts with the high schools kids at my local Walmart.

But as I have revealed, I am in no position to judge another’s taste in music (or wives).

Kidding aside, I thank you for your kind suggestions. My music library is better for them. I am going to branch out from the maudlin, cloying crap that have gravitated to in the past.

Freeme, I did look at that link you gave me. Thank you. It was very interesting to read Gary’s posts. What is amazing to me is that when you look at it from the perspective of an outsider, it seems so CLEAR what to do and what is wrong. Living it is obviously a very different experience. There are points in the thread when you just want to grab him by the shoulders and shake him into reality. I know others have felt that about me when reading this thread. But as you guys know, a person can only take good advice when they are ready. I am no different than Gary in this respect. Thank you for directing me to his link.

So we are moving.

And we will be working together. (for now anyway)

Yesterday, we went into the business and my wife was surprised that I was being no nonsense about things. That I wasn’t filling her in about all of my decisions and asking her opinion as I normally would.

Because she was not getting all the validation that she is used to, she said she was going to have “a panic attack”. Codeword for: give me attention and make me feel better.

Normally, I would hug her and tell her everything was going to be ok.

Instead, I said, take some deep breaths and go outside for a walk if you need to.

I felt very cold and kind of mean saying that. But I think this is how she manipulates me.

Then we went to the house that we are going to rent.

I first saw it about a month ago. I walked through it holding hands with my wife imagining what we would do with the rooms. It was exciting. I imagined our boy and dog playing in the yard.

I went over and introduced myself to the neighbors and was proud to introduce them to my wife.

Yesterday, there was a whole new vibe.

No joy. No sense of adventure or something new.

It was just a house.

I don’t know if we are going to still be together before the year lease is up.

I imagined my wife fucking her boyfriend in the yard.

My wife is still delusional I think. Or maybe she is trying to make amends. She was asking my opinion about everything. Normally she would just say this is going to be the rec room. This is going to be our son’s room. Etc… And quite honestly, most of the time I wouldn't really care.

All I need is a couch and a lamp to read a book and I will be very happy.

So who cares if this room is for this and that room is for that?

Well yesterday, she really wanted my opinions. And I gave them very flatly and frankly.

She wanted to hug and hold hands.

Fuck that.

Other things are happening.

She actually got a work outfit and wore it to an interview yesterday. Do you guys believe that? She actually went to a job interview. She has been taking care of paperwork. She has been doing things for the office. She went to a therapy meeting last night (and brought me paperwork to prove it).

She wants my praise and recognition for all this stuff.

Normally I would be gushing about how proud I was of her. How she was doing such a wonderful thing for us and our family.

I said nothing.

Last night she apologized again when she recognized how her actions had impacted not only our personal life, our relationships with others, my career, our business, and how we feel about our new home.

She started crying. I acknowledged it. She wanted more. More hugs. More attention.

I just said that I was glad she understood the effects of her actions and that she was taking positive steps for her life. I was not mean or angry. I was just stating what I saw as facts. I was detached and clinical.

She went upstairs crying.

I did not follow her. I wanted to.

She came into my room (we have been sleeping in separate rooms lately) in the middle of the night after my son crawled into bed with me and woke me up.

I asked her if she needed to talk and she said yes.

She was having trouble sleeping and said she never realized how lucky she was.

I sensed she wanted more attention and acknowledgement.

This is when I surprised myself with an little impromptu speech:

I said to her very honestly and without malice that what she was looking for was a pat on the back. She wanted praise for going to an interview. For doing paperwork. For going to therapy. For apologizing. I said that people do these things every day without recognition or praise but because they are the right things to do and are their own rewards. Furthermore, they are the bare minimum in terms of any chance at reconciliation.

She is used to getting so much more hugs and gushing from me that she was visibly surprised that I said this and even a little pissed. I could see it on her face and I said so. Her face softened again.

I asked her if there was anything else she needed or wanted to talk about.

She said no.

She is a walking victim, martyr, spoiled brat. I am not at the end of my rope anymore. I let go of it.

I left the room and slept peacefully.

What do you guys think about Dr Phone to recover her deleted texts and calls? I have never used it or really thought about trying to recover those texts. Think it would cause more harm than good?

Any experience with the software itself?

Thanks

I don't know about the texts or the software but this:

I am not at the end of my rope anymore. I let go of it.

Oooooh, boy, this is a big step. Letting go of that rope. Accepting that there are things that you can not control, and things that are not your responsibility to control is a massively huge step in healing and in personal development. It was for me, anyway.

You'll look back on this moment with pride. You will remember it as you move forward through life. I am a completely different person since I let that rope go... and there are no burns on my hands anymore.

Well done, Sir. This is exactly what is needed. Take off her training wheels. She will either pedal or fall.

Just be prepared... This can go one of two ways: she will either get better and figure out how to validate herself, or she will tire of you not giving it to her and seek it elsewhere...again.

Your gut should give you a pretty good indicator of which she is doing based on how you clearly recognized the dynamic last night.

Again, well done.

Grizzly, that-was-epic.

Of all the stories I read here on this site, you by far are quickest to reclaim your cajones and take charge. Usually, it takes a BS a couple of months to begin seeing the forest from the trees in their situation, but YOU by comparison already have a fucking drone with 4k high def camera and surveying that SOB from 300ft! Well done!

And how you are handling her is perfect, open to frank communication and deserved acknowledgement but indifferent to her manipulation and attempts to illicit cheap validation. The only thing you are reflecting back to her is her true self. Being so honest is not easy. Being able to hear the truth is difficult as well. Sounds like she is willing to hear the truth at the very least and willing to show action. You have time on your side, Grizzly.

Griz,

Well done. Very nice blend of the 180 and NNMNG. And you were able to give her specific feedback.

Excellent "New Normal" for the stage you are at especially considering the start of the business and moving to the new place. I recall you had said she had a key role in the business.

You have delivered the "New Normal" in an immediate all encompassing way that signals to her that you have detached from your past behaviors that enabled her validation of entitlement. She won't be all giggly and dancing a jig in front of you any time soon.

Very impressive that you were able to learn about yourself and implement changes in such a short period of time.

Good job, grizzly. You're right to not give her that pat on the back. These were things she should have been doing all along. If you miss a deadline, no one praises you for completing your work late even if you did your best work after procrastinating.

I vote for recovering the texts. Your WW has told a lot of lies and I think you need to know exactly what you're dealing with. I think you need to know if she's been spinning tales of abuse about you and stand firm on your requirement that the you go girls need to be kicked to the curb for this to work. JMHO.

Well done, Sir. This is exactly what is needed. Take off her training wheels. She will either pedal or fall.

Just be prepared... This can go one of two ways: she will either get better and figure out how to validate herself, or she will tire of you not giving it to her and seek it elsewhere...again.

Your gut should give you a pretty good indicator of which she is doing based on how you clearly recognized the dynamic last night.

Again, well done. farsidejunky

Like Farside said it can go one of 2 ways, or one then the other. Be aware if her effort level stays high or begins to wane. If it does begin to wane do not cowtow to her and stay the course. You are doing incredible. Great job.

grizzly, hello sorry you are here but I see a lot of the same things happening to you as it did me. I think Freeme earlier posted my link. When I read your whole posts it made me think I was reliving my own ordeal again.

Consider yourself lucky that you came here and got great advice from people. They are just the best resources you can have. I didn't realize that in the beginning and found out the hard truths the hard way in my situation.

You seem to have taken advantage of the advice here and have a good plan and mindset. A lot quicker than me or most. I am still dealing with my mess although still waiting for the divorce to be final.

Just really take a step back and see all she has acted and done and what you gave in your marriage. When I do I cant believe I was that guy. I will be honest the road ahead is going to be hard and painful. But even though I still am struggling I do feel better having her out of my life. It does give me peace in myself.

I don't want to ever discourage staying together I wanted to do it badly too but just know what a person does like your wife and mine says a lot of their true character. Don't forget that. More importantly don't let her forget that.

Wish you well.

Thanks for the update. I have to say you are doing great. You have a better idea of what your wife really is and what she is capable of. You are questioning if she can do what it takes and are taking all of her words/actions with a grain of salt. You've only been on this site for two weeks and have vastly improved.

Your WW on the other hand, only time will tell. I'm guessing the tears are more for the cushy life she gave up then for the emotional pain she has cause you. This was a 9 month sexual affair where she literally replaced you with OM...going to the same spots you visited. This is going to take a long time for you to get over...see if she is up to it.

You've doing great at not coddling her.

Dont' give too many pats for her buying books and buying an interview outfit.... We know she can shop but can she read the books, talk to you about them, and start work?

Also, this need for 24/7 validation is what she claims caused the affair in the first place...If she can't function without it now...what does that say for your future together?

The VAR is a good idea. It would be good for you to know what she is telling people. I don't believe that the text message was all that set her gf off on calling the police. I believe she blew thing out of proportion (on the phone) to get sympathy from her friend...and her friend called the cops. She might not have planned this but she has her friends thinking that you are an abusive guy. Have you seen the police report yet?

In a prior message you posted about how to get to reconcile if you continue to be "short" with her. This is a timing thing. She is no where near R material...don't put your heart out there until you are seeing more actions this might be several months... it was a 9 month affair.

Any experience with the software itself?

I don't but I do know that an investigative Forum opens up once you have 50 posts on this site. Alternatively, you can try posting a new thread with just the question about phone software here and I'm sure you will get some answers.

One final note...From what you have written it sounds like the OBS got all the emails/text/phone records. Asking her for a copy might be another way of getting some answers. It would also show you if your WW timeline is on target or not.

[This message edited by Freeme at 6:34 AM, November 5th (Saturday)]

Good speech. Not punishing or humiliating in intent---just honest.

Now let's she how she handles this. Like some of the others, I really do see this as a 50/50 shot at stepping up...or going the complete opposite way. The definition of 'character' is what a person does when no one is looking. You will see soon enough.

As for the phone recovery and VAR? I think that they are good ideas. You are still in the discovery phase, and should know all that you are potentially trying to work through. But that is your call.

I Just Want to Live - Good Charlotte

A bit of a backslide yesterday.

I panicked a bit.

I went to pick up my boy from school. Something that I REALLY like to do but have rarely had the opportunity to do in the past because I have been so busy. One contract is done. So now I am down to 3 jobs. I am not getting another any time soon. Fuck that.

Anyway, we had a nice time at the playground and got some dinner.

When I got home. No wife.

She texted me that she was going to her friend (a lawyer’s) house. She is one of the you go girls. I imagined them conniving and plotting against me. Setting up legal strategies to screw me over. I panicked. I got worried and anxious. I got angry.

I have not gotten an official lawyer of my own yet. I am considering two. I just need to do it. She is way ahead of me on this I think even though she swears up and down that she hasn’t officially met any lawyers yet. How the hell can I trust that. I can’t.

I got my VARs in the mail. I am setting them up. Damn software problems. Should be up and running today.

Anyway, she finally got home kind of late. I showed my emotions and anger. She cried. My little boy got upset and cried. It was a real shit show. When I saw my boy upset, I calmed the fuck down and got control and smoothed things over. He can’t live in a house where his parents are yelling and crying. I lived that. That can NOT happen to my little guy.

After we put him to bed, I told my wife we needed to talk. And it was not a very productive conversation. I basically reiterated all the things she had done to me and told her again how angry I was with her and how hurt I was. What is she going to say? You’re right. I know. I just want her to suffer as much as I am. But I know that doesn’t help anything.

Big time backslide.

I slept terribly. Just a few hours.

Went to my therapist today. (I can’t believe that I have a therapist). No real satisfaction with that conversation. He did say something that struck me. He said when you marriage is in trouble you need to demonstrate “maritial grit”. He also recommended that I would be able to live better with my decision for divorce (if it comes to that) and be able to look my boy in the eye, if we exhaust all options before divorce. I think he might be right about that.

One day I feel like if she looks at me funny, I’m going to throw D papers in her face and walk the hell out.

Other days I feel like I need to give her the benefit of the doubt as if she has a mental illness (therapist’s words) and try and help us both get through this and come out on the other side with a better marriage and both of us healthier people for the experience.

My wife seems to think reconciliation depends on me being able to forgive her and move on. I keep telling her that it depends on if she can do the work to make things better and that I don’t think she wants or can handle that responsibility. Of course, she doesn’t like when I say this but that is how I feel. I feel like the truth is so destructive in this case.

We have a couples counseling session later today.

I am not out of the woods yet by any stretch.

Thanks for your kind words Gary. I am really glad that you are moving on with life and I certainly am getting a taste of what you went through. And I don’t wish it on anyone. I agree with you that words are very cheap. Her actions define her character just as mine define my character.

This is the time to nut up for both of us. I’m stumbling a bit and have really appreciated all the advice the wonderful people on here, including yourself, have given me.

I am sometimes hopeful and sometimes petrified for what my life is going to be. I can see a light at the end of the tunnel for sure. I don’t know if there is an intact marriage or not at the end of it. Part of me really doesn’t care. I just don’t want to go through that tunnel. I know I have a long, hard road ahead of me. After this past year working my ass off I thought the really tough stuff was behind me. I’m at what I thought was the finish line only to find out that my team mate was working against me, and it’s not the finish but the start, and its not a run but a swim. And I can’t swim.

I wish there was a clear decision (from the outside, I’m sure there is), I could make it, and just stick to it.

I’m usually not so wishy washy.

I think time and her actions (or lack of them) will make things easier for me to either work towards reconciliation or serve papers.

I think time and her actions (or lack of them) will make things easier for me to either work towards reconciliation or serve papers

Most definitely, her actions or lack thereof, will help you form your decision. I urge you to visit the two lawyers that you are considering and make a decision. Use the time that you see each one to find out what divorce is likely to look like for you so you have the knowledge.

What your WW doesn't seem to understand or want to understand, is that your old marriage is dead. She killed it. The days of her being a pampered princess, waited on hand and foot, are gone. She chose to throw that away. All her decision. Now it's new marriage time or divorce time, and either she puts on her big girl panties and becomes a woman that proves to you that you can be safe with, or SHE is making the CHOICE to divorce.

If you lose a leg, while you're healing, you undoubtedly want life to go back to where it was. Desperately. However to have the slightest chance of that, you have to heal from the initial wound, you have to do the (physical) therapy, and you have to condition that stump to accept a "new" leg. And then learn to use that new leg and see what you can and cannot do with it, over the course of time. Learning all the way.

If you chose to lay in bed, do no PT, not take care of the wound, and refuse to even look at a replacement limb, then guess what? You're not going anywhere. No amount of self-pity, whining, refusal to face reality, and tantrums are going to alter the fact that there is no leg there. There is no marriage there. It's gone. Finis.

It's way past her turn to carry this partnership by becoming someone who is worthy of you. And if she makes the conscious choice to not do so, well, you certainly have your answer.

Hang in there.

You asked about DrFone. My WH used it to recover deleted texts/pictures from his phone. He's the tech guy in our marriage. It recovered quite a bit, though not all, of his texts, and some pictures. I got a "parking lot" confession because he previewed the results at work. Use it soon, because the deleted stuff gets overwritten, so you'll recover more the sooner you do it. It's brutal to read. It helps if you read the parts as though you're emoting in a bad silent movie. Lots of overacting.

My wife seems to think reconciliation depends on me being able to forgive her and move on.

Yes and no, but usually this is a rug sweeping statement.

Calmly tell your wife, there can be NO reconciliation until she explains the why she did this.

Other problems need to be fixed....she needs to somehow regain your trust.

There is never any moving on without 100% effort from the WW. No more nights out, all passwords, and she needs to get rid of these friends of hers that are not good for the marriage, the ones that knew about the affair and helped her with her affair.

Did this lawyer friend of hers know about the affair while it was going on?

Are you sure she was at her friends last night?

I think being able to track her whereabouts is very important for you to know.