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One thing she just latched onto was me telling OMW and (potentially) HR. She kept accusing me of playing God. Saying I was ruining their lives.

It's all about her bud. You weren't a second thought. It still is.

I just...couldn't wrap my head around it. It didn't matter how many times I told her that it is their own actions and decisions that they'd pay consequences for and have to live with. Me exposing the truth doesn't make me responsible. Seriously it was laughable. I sat there and said that he knew the risks of cheating, what was at stake, and he still chose to do it....and it's somehow not his fault? wtf? wtfwtf?

Like I said talk is fruitless. You only have control over you.

It's amazing to me that somebody's mind can work this way. And that I have never seen her in this light before?

just....wtf?

Its to justify her actions. It's all she's got now.

My sister was a wayward. No one could believe it. She taught Sunday school, read the bible, went to church regularly, etc. However, her actions were a part of who she is and always was. Her H was a good guy. Nothing special and not perfect. She blamed the affair on him. Yep. Guess what 20+ years later her tone hasn't changed. She still has the wayward midset.

There's a myth that they always come back or see the light. They don't always.

If she had any remourse you'd recognize it.

You can't make her get it. All you'll do is keep yourself bound up in this. Read and study the 180. It's your only good path.

I sat there and said that he knew the risks of cheating, what was at stake, and he still chose to do it....and it's somehow not his fault? wtf? wtfwtf?

It's amazing to me that somebody's mind can work this way. And that I have never seen her in this light before?

just....wtf?

She is still in rainbow farting unicorn fantasyland a.k.a. "The fog". It means all of her devotion and point of view lies with him. No remorse, just pining over her AP. You HAVE to be the bad guy or her justifications collapse and she will have to acknowledge exactly what a POS she really is.

e.t.a. Marz has been on point consistently, especially the above post.

[This message edited by RubixCubed at 10:58 PM, January 6th (Sunday)]

It is absolutely essential that you recognize the difference between regret and remorse. A quick google search will likely produce a fantastic comparison for you.

Hint: nothing you have written to this point regarding her is remorseful.

A 2x4 for you: If you are done, why are you going to "have your say"?

If you are done, be done.

If your are not done, then don't be.

I understand that emotionally it is difficult to follow through with that, but every time you are unable to not only stunts your healing, but it also puts you at risk and potentially complicates the path you are truly wanting/needing to follow.

Google one more thing: "The Drama Triangle: Three Faces of a Victim". It will help you see through what she is doing every time she shifts from apologetic to aggressive/blameshifting.

I just...couldn't wrap my head around it. It didn't matter how many times I told her that it is their own actions and decisions that they'd pay consequences for and have to live with. Me exposing the truth doesn't make me responsible. Seriously it was laughable. I sat there and said that he knew the risks of cheating, what was at stake, and he still chose to do it....and it's somehow not his fault? wtf? wtfwtf?

It's amazing to me that somebody's mind can work this way. And that I have never seen her in this light before?

just....wtf?

You can try as hard as you like to understand how someone's mind could possibly be that twisted, but you'll just end up driving yourself crazy. Trust me, I've been there. When I outed my exWW's affair to her parents, she blew up my phone with a flurry of furious texts saying how dare I mess with her life and I need to tell her parents that it wasn't what I thought it was and to tell them it was a misunderstanding. Tried selling me a pathetic lie about how he was a friend who had fallen on hard times financially and she was just giving him a place to stay. I was dumbfounded. Literally could not formulate a response because I was so stunned by how she was acting. She'd been cheating on me for more than a year, told me she wanted a divorce and put all the blame on me for her unhappiness in the marriage, and got me to agree to a separation for the express purpose of moving the OM into my house. And she had the fucking audacity to get mad at me for outing her affair and actually expected me to protect her.

WTF doesn't even begin to cover how screwed up the mind of a wayward is. And the fact that I spent six years sleeping next to someone who was capable of something so monstrous and somehow never saw the signs was probably an even bigger mindfuck than the affair itself.

And the fact that I spent six years sleeping next to someone who was capable of something so monstrous and somehow never saw the signs was probably an even bigger mindfuck than the affair itself.

Do you think it's something that changes in them? That they snap and become this way for some reason?

I just can't wrap my mind around it. I have a hard time imagining that this level of selfishness and disregard for others was always lurking beneath the surface and I just never noticed.

This whole thing is killing me. I really hope I can get an emergency appointment tomorrow to meet with my therapist. I feel like now that the initial shock has worn off, I am having a hard time facing the fact that my marriage is over.

Still going down the same path....getting tested for STDs tomorrow, talking to 3 more lawyers this week....just having a hard time with this, especially since she's back. I feel so worn out, like I can't think about this stuff anymore, I just don't have the energy. But then my mind starts racing and I start thinking about them together. It makes me literally want to be sick.

She didn't do it "to you".

She did it "for her".

You weren't the target. That it hurt you was acceptable collateral damage.

While understandable, this is a victim mentality.

Have you googled the drama triangle yet?

If you continue to get growing pressure from her parents to R, tell them the following.....politely but firmly.

After destroying her M and blowing up the stable home of her own children.....your WW’s primary concern is protecting POSOM, the man who actively participated with her in destroying her family.

There is NO way you would even for a second contemplate R with that attitude and priority from her.....

Instead you will focus on protecting their grandchildren from your WW’s destructive actions.

Duplicate....sorry

[This message edited by Dyokemm at 1:25 AM, January 7th (Monday)]

Unfortunately I'm fairly certain that they filled her head with the message of "you had postpartum depression, this isn't your fault, you just need to go get medication and it'll help you feel better"

Good parenting is about teaching children to take responsibility for their actions and that makes them responsible empathetic adults.

Is the quote above a good representation of how she was raised? It could explain her behavior...

Hang in there buddy. The rollercoaster is going to start. Emotions are going to flow from anger to sorrow to discust to feeling you want to inflict the worse pain on the AP and her for hurting you in such a brutal way. An affair is abuse of the BS.

She will try and create a narrative (already started it appears) about post-natal depression. While this may be the case, it doesn’t excuse her actions. You are probably in the early stages of depression and yet you’re not going out and seeking infidelity.

We are here to help you. At times some posters can be brutal in their assessment of a situation and their subsequent advice. It’s not that fhey want to see you in more pain. We don’t want to see you in pain. We want you to get out of infidelity and live a normal, fulfilling life.

Your wife and her AP aren’t too bright. They’ve pretty much let the cat out of the bag that telling the OBS is a really bad thing for both of them. Ohhhhhhhh... poor lurrrrrrrv birds. Blow the fucker’s life out of the water. The mere fact that she wants to protect her AP is reason enough to expose to OBS. More important reason is that the OBS should know so she can make an informed decision about her life. Important enough also to blow the fucker AP’s world apart so he thinks twice in trying to fuck up some other family in the future. I hope you have already informed the OBS. Please do as a matter of priority. But be ready when the AP dumps your wife.

[This message edited by Mene at 3:48 AM, January 7th (Monday)]

Collapsed

I have to repeat myself - I see so many similarities between the way we try to handle the situation and the bullshit we are exposed to.

I had 4 months of limbo with my stbxw, before I finally kicked her out.

I turned into an absolute mess : On the outside trying to keep it together for my kids whilst on the inside, I turned into this zombie.

I am writing from a holiday. My stbxw is more than 6000 km away. The first night was hard.

And then, thanks to no contact and a firm plan in my head, things became easier every day.

Like all the other members here I can assure you : The pain will go away.

Or to quote my yoga teacher:

" Whatever you feel is only temporary"

This forum has been my lifeline in some dark moments. I hope you will experience the same.

We are all on your side, even if you don't agree with every bit of advice people are sending you:

You have an army of support !

Collapsed, trying to make YOU responsible for ruining lives for something THEY did is just typical cheatspeak. Of course they want to minimize and deflect . The truth is all you are doing is shining light on darkness. I got a similar discussion with my wife after Dday and really didnt listen to it . Just manipulation of a desperate person trying to keep from suffering consequences of their actions.

This may not make sense now but as some other people said you are now free. Free to pursuit a real life. A life of a father. With Honor. With purpose. No more leeches living off your corpse. I'm 1 year out and though I never had any concrete evidence of infidelity I know something happened. What? TBD.. I went through all the stages. Pick me dance, etc.... I'm in the don't fuck with me and 1 more thing and I'm gone stage. Life couldn't be clearer than now. To have your spouse betray you is the worse thing that can happen to any person. It's time now for me and my kids. Soon, you may going this club. Your life and your choices are that. Yours. But fighting for someone who doesn't give 2 shits about you is counter productive. Karma will set things straight in the end. Count on that. I wish you nothing but the best as you embark on this journey. Strap on, it's going to be bumpy but ONLY FOR SO LONG. There's light at the end of the tunnel.

I would get extremely angry at my XWW entitlement and manipulation crap. Sounds like you are getting some of this. You are trying to play God?

Lets not talk about being accountable for ones actions though. Total mindfuck!

I tried to reason with my XWW... complete waste of time, I compared it to her robbing a bank, and when caught, telling the Judge it was the banks fault for being there... She still didn't get it. Some never do unfortunately.

Hang in there Collapsed, you are doing good!

Do you think it's something that changes in them? That they snap and become this way for some reason?

I don't think this is what happens. I think waywards always had the potential of cheating within them, that vein of selfishness that propels them to take what they want without regard for how it will crush their spouse, coupled with that inner moral weakness that enables them to conveniently overlook the promises they made in their wedding vows situationally when it is convenient.

I think that some waywards realize, after the fact, how broken they are morally and ethically and take affirmative steps to fix those parts, make themselves into safe partners, either for their BS via R or for a new spouse.

Butfor's advice for single people: if you find yourself single and dating somebody who cheated on a prior spouse, and that person tries to blame his or her BS for the cheating, get as much good sex out of that person as you want, then ghost him or her before getting too entangled.

Do you think it's something that changes in them? That they snap and become this way for some reason?

No, I don't think so. I think that most people who have affairs are, at their core, people whose moral decision making is based less on a code of honor of some sort and more on what they think will make them feel good. They have some ability to understand right and wrong and weigh consequences, but in the end their morality is more circumstantial than absolute. So when everything in the marriage is fine and dandy, they don't entertain thoughts of cheating, but if things get difficult and there's tension and conflict at home, all bets are off. Leaning in and working on getting the marriage back to a good place can be difficult. Soaking up the attention of co-workers and "friends" on the other hand is quite easy. And when you're the kind of person who's more concerned with feeling good than doing the right thing, it's easy to start to see your spouse as the bad guy because that relationship is a currently source of conflict and your AP-in-the-making as the good guy because they're currently a source of positive, flattering attention. From there it all plays out predictably. You start texting more and more with your AP and ignoring your spouse because one allows you to escape into a happy little fantasy while the other forces you to confront a more difficult reality. Texting turns into spending time together in person, which inevitably results in sex, and now you've got a full blown affair where the WS is ignoring their BS and generally treating them like shit because they're off in la-la land having fun. And of course the mistreatment of their BS makes the marital relationship even worse which incentivizes them to escape more and more into their affair.

They're just weak people who choose feeling good over doing right.

[This message edited by firenze at 12:46 PM, January 7th (Monday)]

Firenze, that is the best explanation I have ever read about why it is so easy for some people to cheat and impossible for others.

I have a somewhat skewed idea about human behaviors based on my job. I think psychologists have woefully under-estimated narcissism in our culture. The diagnostic manual they operate from is based on whom they see. I see many disordered people. Perhaps they don’t meet the exacting standards of a definition but no one does. You can have many narcissistic traits and not meet the guidelines. In the end it doesn’t matter if your behavior has broken someone’s heart. No definition is going to ease their pain. Everyone wants to know why. To a cheater it comes down to they wanted to.

[This message edited by Cooley2here at 12:27 PM, January 7th (Monday)]

BS ONLY

[This message edited by SI Staff at 3:24 PM, February 8th (Friday)]

Collapsed,

Just checking in on you buddy. Is everything OK? It’s been a few days since you’ve posted.

[This message edited by Mene at 4:07 AM, January 8th (Tuesday)]

Thanks Mene. I appreciate you follow-up.

Been a busy couple days. Had Sunday night which was the last time we really talked and I think I posted about.

I did a few things over the last few days. I scheduled an emergency appointment with my therapist, which I'll talk about in a bit. I bought a VAR and a motion camera for my bedroom. I went to the doctor and got tested for STDs and got some medication to help me with sleeping and with anxiety. I specifically requested no ant-depressants because I need my pain. I spoke, at length, with my Mother In Law, who is totally on my side and sees how WW is and has been in the fog.

WW and I have been communicating a bit via text. Mostly about kid related stuff, schedule, etc. Except for what happened this morning.

I took the kids to the dentist. 30 minutes after being gone, she went into the master bedroom. She paused, looked around, saw the cord, and traced it to the camera. Hmm. I saw her shake her head and walk away.

I texted her immediately and said that her first move once I was out of the house was to begin going through my stuff. She claimed that she heard me behind the door this morning (she didn't) and wanted to see if I was doing something to try and lock her out of her room even though she might need her cloths. Hm, okay.

We had a back and forth, I explained that was told that she wasn't welcome in the room and needs to remain respective of that fact and ask if she can go in. She replied and said I could go ahead and take the cameras down as soon as she's gone. Then there were a few exchanges about money, and she thought I was taking secret money out of our checking account (I'm not). Here is what she ended up writing to me:

"I hurt you deeply. I know that. I betrayed your trust. I know that. Because of these reasons I don't trust you because I think you would like to destroy my life like I have destroyed ours. I don't blame you, but it doesn't change the fact that I just don't trust you right now."

So that was this morning's excitement. I also do have a VAR in the common area and she didn't make any calls before or after this, but I could hear her sobbing pretty hard for a while. I'm assuming after she found the camera.

She is now gone to the doctor to speak about depression.

Okay, enough of the day to day. I'd like to post something about my mindset.

I'm dealing with some of the anger. I'm still really angry but I don't feel like I'm in a chatotic storm of emotion. I spoke with my therapist for hours yesterday and to be honest guys I was told a lot of things that contradict some of the advice that I'm getting here. At least that's the way I interpreted it. My therapist's message boiled down to:

- For the last 6 months, you have been waiting for the event to trigger you to put an end to this. Is this that event?. It's okay if it is.

- Is this affair and the last year worth putting an end to the last 12 years of your relationship (marriage+dating). It's okay if it is.

- You are extremely emotional and upset right now, rightfully so. I encourage you to not make any rash decisions.

- I encourage you to not start a turf war over the kids.

- If OM and WW are still talking and they scheme against you and tell lies about you, the truth will come out. If you have evidence today that will favor you in custody, that evidence will still be there tomorrow.

- Telling OMW may be the right thing to do in your eyes but at this point it's irrelevant to deciding what's right for you.

- YOU need to figure out what YOU want

Those were my takeaways. I agreed with some, I disagreed with others, but I promised to think about them all.

I then talked to my MIL for a few hours. She is 100% on my side. Sees the regret but not the remorse. I also filled her in on the emotional agony she put me through over the last year, including several examples. MIL has the right mindset and knows how insane WW has become. Neither of us know if it can be fixed. I told her it might just be who she is and she'll never get past it.

MIL asked if I had it in my heart to try again. I told her my answer isn't no, but it's definitely not yes. I said I could never ever dream of reconciling with the person she is today. I said she'd need to give everything to change. Everything. Everything to try and fix this. And it still might not be enough, because I don't think right now that I can forgive her. But I said anything less than her absolute everything will never be good enough.

I hope all of this makes sense. If I had to summarize, I'd say that the initial shock and hurt and pain has dulled. I've had to deal with my kids crying because they want to spend time with mom, not me, and they don't really understand why. I've gotten some actual sleep for the first time in days. The burden of "trying to make it work" is off of my shoulders now and I'm no longer being crushed by it.

Next steps: I talk to 3 more lawyers this week. I have another therapy appointment in 2 days. I still feel like I want D, but I don't feel like I need to file for it within the next few days. I need a way to figure out what I want. I'm not a decisive person by nature and I struggle with this. I'm reading No More Mr Nice Guy. I'm exercising every day now (was before too, but took a break when my world fell apart). I'm going to go get an expensive haircut and buy a bunch of nice clothes. I'm going to desperately try to figure out what I want, because right now the only thing I can think of is that I want a time machine to go back to 2017.

[This message edited by collapsed at 11:40 AM, January 8th (Tuesday)]