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Reconciliation :
She wants us to try again

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Rise And Shine ( member #27513) posted at 6:31 PM on Saturday, October 23rd, 2010

Norseman,

she says that if I leave it is because I would want to ruin her life and position in the society and her relationship to our kids, and yes I have been told how honorable she has been keeping the family together and what an ass I have been for ruining her affair

I think that WAL is spot-on. Worth reading again:

So, if she wants to stay, it's at least partly because she *does* love you. She just can't admit to it right now because it would mean that she had betrayed that love for a length of dick...and what the hell would that say about the sort of person she is?

No, no. Much better not to love and be a martyr for the "right" thing. That's the path of honor and integrity she so desperately needs to believe she possesses.

April 25, 2009

posts: 3263   ·   registered: Feb. 9th, 2010
id 4866624
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beenthere2? ( member #28554) posted at 7:15 PM on Saturday, October 23rd, 2010

@I think I can: It is not about money, besides neither of us cares about money, we are well off but we are no big spenders, where I live the estate will be split 50/50 when divorsing, she wants me to work because she does not respect people that does not work

@wincing_at_light: No, it is not a ransom offer she is making, she is afraid of me leaving her, she says that if I leave it is because I would want to ruin her life and position in the society and her relationship to our kids, and yes I have been told how honorable she has been keeping the family together and what an ass I have been for ruining her affair

Ok the second one is just plain BS.

But the first one, how old are your children? Did you talk about you being a SAHD/H? Has she mentioned the work thing before? I am in NO WAY excusing or justifying her affair and her total lack of remorse, but maybe the job thing is huge with her. If you were to R, would you get a job? If not, I think her resentment might stay.

Personally, I see her wanting to try again as a way for her to save face because she was dumped. If you leave her then she has no one. It isn't about the marriage, it is still about her.

Me: BW 34 Him: WH 36
Married 10
Dday #1 5/15/10 claimed EA/just friends
#2 9/20/10 (admitted to kiss w/ same OW
#3 11/29/10 admitted to a lot more

posts: 3981   ·   registered: May. 18th, 2010
id 4866673
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bluewater ( member #9297) posted at 7:25 PM on Saturday, October 23rd, 2010

Norseman,

In all that you have posted so far I haven't heard one reason why you should stay with her. So far all you has posted about is what she wants and why she wants it.

Again I ask, why would you stay with a WS who is:

1) An unrepentant liar who cheated on you for five years?

2) Who has told and shown you (by word, deed and continuing actions) that she does not love or respect you?

3) Has no remorse for her affair but instead blames you, the BS for it?

4) Is only with you because the OM dumped her and she wants to keep up appearances?

5) Continues to work with OM who BTW she still sees every day at work not 10 feet away from her?

I am sorry but in my opinion that is not the foundation upon which one repairs a broken relationship and builds a strong loving one. To me that seems to be recipe for a disaster of a relationship.

And I again ask, what do YOU want? What are YOU getting out of this relationship?

Can't help but wonder what would happen if her expressed an interest in her again. How long do you think her promise to be faithful would hold up?

And just curious, why after a five year affair that ended with him dumping her does she still work with him?

I apologize in advance for being so blunt.

posts: 673   ·   registered: Jan. 5th, 2006
id 4866682
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I think I can ( member #17756) posted at 10:53 PM on Saturday, October 23rd, 2010

we had such a bad relationship, but then I have been both ignorant and selfish.

Oh bullshit. WS's SAY that so that you will take the blame. And we accept that because that means we still have control. We can change and then they will love us.

The affair is NOT YOUR FAULT. It is your wife who is ignorant and selfish.

I'm not the winner, I'm the prize.

posts: 9046   ·   registered: Jan. 14th, 2008
id 4866930
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aliveagain ( member #25751) posted at 11:32 PM on Saturday, October 23rd, 2010

Run Norseman,run. There is still time to find happiness. Your more like a thing in your estate.

posts: 2595   ·   registered: Oct. 5th, 2009   ·   location: Canada, wild, wild west
id 4866959
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lost_in_toronto ( member #25395) posted at 11:34 PM on Saturday, October 23rd, 2010

No, it is not a ransom offer she is making, she is afraid of me leaving her, she says that if I leave it is because I would want to ruin her life and position in the society and her relationship to our kids, and yes I have been told how honorable she has been keeping the family together and what an ass I have been for ruining her affair

If you leave her it will be because she engaged in a long term affair and is showing no remorse.

I think that your WW has blameshifted a great deal - you did not realize how bad the marriage was? Where is her responsibility in communicating how her needs were not being met? - and has succeeded in making you feel guilty. For an affair that you should feel absolutely no guilt for, and consequences that are entirely the result of her very poor choices.

You're an ass for ruining her affair?! I have to be totally honest - if this is how my WS had responded to the end of his affair, I'm not sure we'd be in R at all.

((norseman))

I think it's time to make your WW realize the extent of the damage she has done, and realize that any "ruin" that results is on her shoulders.

Oh - and you retired early, and are devoting yourself to what are your priorities in this life. Why should this be a license for her to continue to disrespect you?!

Me: BS/48
Him: WS/46
DDay: August 23, 2009
Together 23 years.
Reconciled.

posts: 1806   ·   registered: Sep. 2nd, 2009   ·   location: not toronto anymore
id 4866962
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Blindbat ( member #29495) posted at 12:43 AM on Sunday, October 24th, 2010

Slightly OT, for which apologies but this:

have changed attitude for better after learning about affair

made me think - how ironic is it that BSs are so quick to take the A as a kick up the bum to change things that probably do need changing but WSs are so reluctant to do so?

Noli illegitimi carborundum
Not yet as divorced as I'd like to be :-(

posts: 713   ·   registered: Sep. 1st, 2010   ·   location: The Land of Chocolate
id 4867035
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doctor49 ( member #15847) posted at 1:14 AM on Sunday, October 24th, 2010

Norseman

Thinking about bluewater's comments, perhaps you could ask your wife why you should stay with:

1) An unrepentant liar who cheated on you for five years?

2) Who has told and shown you (by word, deed and continuing actions) that she does not love or respect you?

3) Has no remorse for her affair but instead blames you, the BS for it?

4) Is only with you because the OM dumped her and she wants to keep up appearances?

5) Continues to work with OM who BTW she still sees every day at work not 10 feet away from her?

And I have to say not doing it again wouldn't work for me.

Would she stay, if the situation and circumstances were reversed?

And to get back to bluewater's starting point, 'why would you want to stay?'. What's in it for you, not for your wife or kids, but for you? If there's nothing in it for you that you genuinely value, why stay?

posts: 244   ·   registered: Aug. 19th, 2007
id 4867069
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 Norseman (original poster new member #26404) posted at 11:12 AM on Sunday, October 24th, 2010

@Rise And Shine: Deep inside me I have the feeling of her still feeling something for me. But why tell she does not love me? What's in for her telling me this anyway if she wants to reconcile?

@beenthere2?: I think the job thing is huge with her, but it is only the past few years that she has voiced an opinion about me staying at home, it was only after the affair she told me she does not respect people staying home. I have always had well paid jobs, but quid 15 years ago to raise our kids. I am old fashioned and wanted one parent to stay home with the kids. My wife had at time just started a career, I had already achieved what most men would have wanted in their job. Kids are now 16 and 20, btw.

@bluewater: What I want is for us to find love again. After the affair my feelings for her have faded, but she is still good company.

About her working with the OM she has offered to find another job even if she loves her job, but this means moving from our grand home that means "everything" to me.

@I think I Can: I may have been a bad partner, but I am not accepting any blame for her affair. I have been both ignorant to her needs (but then she rarely ever told me what she wanted because she is shy) and selfish (I was always the decision maker)

[This message edited by Norseman at 7:29 AM, October 24th (Sunday)]

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McKenziesWish ( member #11970) posted at 12:18 PM on Sunday, October 24th, 2010

I am sorry Norseman. She sounds like she is filled up with FOG. Save yourself. Start learning the 180 IMMEDIATELY...otherwise you may find yourself accidentally rewarding her bad behavior and continued rewriting of marital history.

The TRUTH is....she loved you, married you, gave you children,..and had she NOT been messed up with her internal flaws...she would love you now. In all likelihood, if the FOG lifts in time...she will feel remorseful for the affair and even more remorseful for having told you she did not love you...that is a game they all play with themselves to make it easier to live with the knowledge that they ARE weak enough to lie and cheat.

Norseman...there is NOTHING wrong with you! SHE is the one with issues that need to be addressed...BY HER! If she heals...then yes...you can change some things to make your marriage even better...but until SHE fixes HER STUFF....it is out of your hands. Take care of yourself...take even better care of your children...maybe start a new business...give a time frame to her...and then LIVE YOUR LIFE!





"He is a

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shatter-ed ( member #27159) posted at 3:03 PM on Sunday, October 24th, 2010

Is she in IC? She needs to work on herself before you can begin to R. You tried it before, she failed. She is rug sweeping. She needs to fix herself. You say you have changed for the better since the A. What has she done?

All she is promising is that she will be faithful. Wow. You deserve more than that. You deserve someone who loves you and wants to be with you. Why stay with someone who is not remorseful? Some who only wants to be with you to avoid scandal and because

divorse is worse than staying together,

Seriously? She needs to do better than that.

I agree with others that maybe she is saying that she hasn't loved you for the last 15 years to justify to herself why she had a LTA . But no apology? No remorse? No love?

Do you really want to spend the rest of your life like this?

BS (me)
WH
3 amazing kids.
Separated Dec 2016
DDay - 06/11/09 MOW desperate fugly neighbor

posts: 602   ·   registered: Jan. 11th, 2010   ·   location: uk
id 4867708
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 Norseman (original poster new member #26404) posted at 5:13 PM on Sunday, October 24th, 2010

@lost_in _toronto: Well, I did notice that there was something going on because there was less intimacy in the sex, we have hardly ever argued about anything so on the surface our marriage looked OK. She have said many times that she is angry with me because I blew the affair, OM balanced the negative feelings she had for me and made her cope with life. About me staying home I guess my wife despise every woman/man staying home

@Blindbat: I do realise I have had some issues, but I have changed. If my wife would open up to me I would be happy

@doctor49: I believe she would stay if circumstances were reversed, she does not love me so what the heck if I had an affair

@McKenziesWish: I believe that she is not remorseful because that would mean that she has done something bad, I think she believes that she is even with me because I have neglected her needs.

@shattered-ed: Were we live in Norway there is no such thing as IC, besides she has not opened up to me and she would not open up to anyone else either including her few friends. I do not want to spend the rest of my life with a person not loving me, but I can not figure out why she tells that she herself can endure in a loveless marriage and that I should do the same, if she really feels like this why on earth tell me if she want to stay married?, why not lie and say furure will be bright?

[This message edited by Norseman at 11:18 AM, October 24th (Sunday)]

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id 4867889
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kenny55 ( member #23014) posted at 7:22 PM on Sunday, October 24th, 2010

Norseman, you keep mentioning not wanting to lose your 'grand " house . In 100 years no one will remember what kind of house you lived in. It is just a thing. JMO

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kenny55 ( member #23014) posted at 7:22 PM on Sunday, October 24th, 2010

Norseman, you keep mentioning not wanting to lose your 'grand " house . In 100 years no one will remember what kind of house you lived in. It is just a thing. JMO

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 Norseman (original poster new member #26404) posted at 8:52 AM on Monday, October 25th, 2010

Thank you everyone for your input, it has been of great help.

@kenny55: English is not my mother tongue, "grand home" for me does not mean stylish ranch or a Hollywood mansion with park or a fancy house to display.

But we have developed our property over the past 30 years, I am attached to it and it gives me a "grand" feeling.

I would give it up for love, I am not insecure so would not give it up just to avoid wife working with OM

posts: 9   ·   registered: Dec. 3rd, 2009
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Trying2Survive2 ( member #25758) posted at 9:45 AM on Monday, October 25th, 2010

she says that if I leave it is because I would want to ruin her life and position in the society and her relationship to our kids, and yes I have been told how honorable she has been keeping the family together and what an ass I have been for ruining her affair

Read that again. And try to remove yourself and your emotions from the equation.

Sorry..but SHE ruined all those things when she chose to step outside the marriage very long ago.

There's no honor in what she's done to you.

She was willing to throw all of that away, and continues to try to make you think all is your fault.

She has very twisted thinking my friend.

Marriages have ups and downs, ebbs and tides, and I'm sure you all had things that needed to be worked on.

She chose to step outside your marriage, rather than work within.

Try to think of it this way.

Imagine she physically beat the hell out of you..

and

If you chose to leave because of it, YOU WOULD DESTROY her Honor, position in society, and relationship with your kids..and yada yada..

Do you see where I'm going with this?

Hugs

Faithful Wife ME 52
FWH 47
DDAY #1 1/11/09 EA Online ONLY (NC)
DDAY #2 6/2010 Admitted PA with the same PIG(12/08)
"Anything may be betrayed, anyone may be forgiven, but not those who lack the courage of their own greatness"

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numb&dumb ( member #28542) posted at 3:11 PM on Tuesday, October 26th, 2010

Basically what scares me is that she wants badly to stay married to someone she says she does not love to avoid what she thinks would be a scandal

I am so sorry, but is staying married to someone who wants to stay married for "appearances" going to make you happy ? What do you get out of it ?

As far as your WW telling you she won't cheat again . . .What has she done to show you she can be trusted? What is to stop her the next time an attractive colleague enters her radar. After all didn't she already promise to be faithful once?

I understand she has convinced you that because she was unhappy in the marriage, it justify s the affair. We call that blame-shifting around here, (read in the healing library upper left corner, yellow box). You can take ownership of 50% of the marriage issues, but the affair is 100% on her. If she was so unhappy why didn't she get a divorce ? Why not suggest MC or IC ? There are a lot of alternatives to what she did. She also seems to create a lot of things to justify that the affair was "OK" in her mind. Unfortunately she seems to be succeeding in trying for you to see it that way as well.

If you want my advice. Out the affair. Your wife made the choice and now it is your turn. I think only once she sees the full damage her affairs have caused and she will start to feel sorry. It is going to be bad at first, but (like it or not the damage has already been done, no amount of rug sweeping will make it go away)

Read in the healing library, maybe look into the 180 ?

Dday 8/31/11. EA/PA. Lied to for 3 years.

Bring it, life. I am ready for you.

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Razor ( member #16345) posted at 5:20 PM on Tuesday, October 26th, 2010

Norseman.

I will admit to not reading thru every thing here. but you initial post struck me because it seem like your WW is really NOT *all in* on making you M work.

First. IMHO you need to decide what you want. From what I read you choice is

1. A relationship that is more akin to a business partnership.

2. A marriage that consists of love and respect for each other.

IMHO you WW is offering you ONLY number 1.

In this offering the chance of another A is large. This because the tenets of your previous M are still in place - and these tenets supported her cheating. If the under laying structure of the M is not addressed, the M will remain fundamentally unchanged. Any *changes* will be of a surface nature only. And so the cheating will likely happen again.

If that is what you want. Then all you questions are answered and you need not read further.

If OTOH you want number 2. You and your WW have to be *all in* to make it work. By *all in* I suppose I mean totally committed. But more so.

Some time back I wrote about minimum and maximum people. I wish I knew the link to that thread as it would make explaining easier. But. Basically what I mean is that if you really want some thing - to really and truly succeed at it. You must do MORE than what is actually asked.

For example. In your studies at school.

If you faithfully did your assignments by following the instructions of your professor and doing JUST what was asked. You would probably attain a passing grade. This is what I call doing the minimum to get by. This is what I refer to as a minimum person.

OTOH. If you had engaged with the subject intellectually. Been deeply interested in it. And had a deep and true desire to under stand it fully. You would not only follow the instructions of you professor. You would go beyond them. You would surpass them. You would seek out new information not covered in lecture or in the text. You would research on your own. The knowledge you gain would integrate with your person and become a part of you. This is doing the maximum. This sort of person is what I refer to as a maximum person.

IMHO. For R to truly succeed. For you to attain the second choice listed above. Your WW must become a maximum person. She must go beyond what you ask - and others have said (NC, transparency, etc) She must pursue more changes. Explore her own inner workings. Make fundamental changes to her self. Integrate these changes into her personality. Not only follow the NEW TENETS of her self and the M when you are looking. But when out of your sight also. AND continue to pursue them for the rest of her life.

From what you wrote. I really dont see you WW doing this at all.

Listen. Too often we BS hear that the M was the source of the A. ALL M have problems tho. ALL OF THEM. So. If problem M is the source of cheating. Then it would happen in ALL M. (which it doesnt)

Too often we are told that the problems are 50-50. We BS own 50% of the M problems and the WS owns 50%. BUT when we ask a WS what their 50% is. We are often told such things as *WS did not communicate how unhappy they were with they BS* This bothers me because it is again laying all fault for the PROBLEMS on the BS and the only fault of the WS is not communicating effectively about it.

IMHO in most M the WS is at fault much more than they want to admit.

In this I only want to say that you M is NOT the cause of you WW cheating. So let go of that.

Second. I want to say that UNLESS you WW is willing to go *all in* and be a maximum person. That you will not have a true M - but only a sort of business relationship. And that you WW will likely cheat again. OR you may find you self cheating in that sort of relationship.

So decide what you want.

If your WW will not be a maximum person AND you do not want a business relationship with you WW. Then IMHO you are better off getting a D and moving on with you life.

Razor

Forgive and forget = Relive and regret.

Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man.
Friedrich Nietzsche

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Cherry Tomato ( member #19255) posted at 6:43 PM on Tuesday, October 26th, 2010

I think the job thing is huge with her, but it is only the past few years that she has voiced an opinion about me staying at home, it was only after the affair she told me she does not respect people staying home.

Well how very noble of her to keep her opinion to herself for years so not to make you feel bad. Really, she is so far up in the clouds of foggy foggerness it's stunning. Trust me when I say this as I'm a FWW, she is all about not losing control over you, her family & her hunky dory little life. She is worried YOU will cause a scandal? Well, tough shit. This is ALL on her...she made the bad choices, you didn't. She had the A...you didn't. She ruined your lives...you didn't. Don't give her blameshifting ego-tystical bullshit anymore importance by listening to it. 180 her until she comes crashing down out of the clouds.

(((Norseman)))

FWW/FBW(me)-43; FBH/FWH(him)-44; DDay 12/25/07; M 18 yrs, 1 DD
Separated 8/6/08; H moved back home 1/6/09; In R 4/24/09
"You and I’ll ride tonight till the past is out of sight. We don't have to look back now." ----Puddle of Mudd

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id 4871825
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Rise And Shine ( member #27513) posted at 8:11 PM on Tuesday, October 26th, 2010

Deep inside me I have the feeling of her still feeling something for me. But why tell she does not love me? What's in for her telling me this anyway if she wants to reconcile?

I’m giving your wife the benefit of the doubt that she is still in the “fog”. It doesn’t make a lot of sense, considering the things she’s told you, for her to remain married to you if she didn’t still have some loving feelings for you. I think that those feelings are buried under her fog.

These are some of her contradictions to not loving you and excuses for why she's willing to stay married...

-She's willing to give up a career she loves for you.

-She's willing to remain faithful.

-Her claim that the OM balanced her lack of feelings for you which allowed her to put up with a marriage she didn't want to be in. Well he's gone. It should be 100 times harder now for her to remain married to you without him. It's not though.

-She claims a divorce will ruin her social standing. That's just bullshit. This is America in the year 2010 not 1950. She doesn't really believe this. If she did, if she was that concerned about appearances she wouldn't have had an affair.

I don't think she understands what's going on inside her own head.

Norseman, I believe that if there’s even a tiny spark or a very dull flame, there’s hope for rebuilding the love. I’m sending you a PM with a link to a site full of information that helped me a great deal in my early days post dday. I’m sending the link via PM because I’m not sure if I’m allowed to post the link directly on this forum. Anyway, the site, if you share it with your wife, will also help her to get a better understanding of why she had an A, what damage she’s caused and how to rebuild.

April 25, 2009

posts: 3263   ·   registered: Feb. 9th, 2010
id 4872089
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