SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Brief introduction.

Us: Married for 30 years, 2 kids (16 & 20), well off moneywise

Me:54, confident, outgoing, dominating, fit, good with kids, retired, have changed attitude for better after learning about affair

She:50, low self esteem, shy (but not introvert), beloved mother, always working, fit, attractive, has sacrified herself for me and the kids

Affair partner: Co-worker, father of our sons class mate, neighbor, teacher of our daughter, wife divorced him 1 year ago after finding out about his affair(s)

Affair: Lasted 5 years, I found out after 4, both of us agreed to reconcile, a half year later affair went on again for another year, OM started new affair with another woman, ended affair with my wife, got kicked out by his wife

Marriage: No fights, lots of communications, spends time together, no one knows about affair, wife does not want to talk about affair, she does not have any remorse, no apologies, she does not want to talk about us nor plan the future, she just wants us to go on with our life

Reason for affair: Says she have not loved me for the last 15 years, says it was my fault because I did not meet her needs, affair was only way to keep the family together and her happy

Situation now: Wants us to stay married, says she will be faithful, says divorse is worse than staying together, my feelings for her is now reduced

[This message edited by Norseman at 12:13 PM, October 23rd (Saturday)]

What's she going to bring to the table to prove to you that she's worth trying again with?

I'm a fan of the notion that a WS desiring to reconcile either has to bring more to the table of R than they did the the marriage originally (including fidelity, obviously, which is *technically* more, but really just symptomatically more), or they have to bargain for a less cherry deal from the BS than they previously had.

So, what's her offer?

What do you want?

It sounds like she's a champion rug sweeper!

What do YOU want?

Additionally:

When I ask about her offer, I don't mean the basic things like transparency, honesty, remorse, IC, blah, blah, blah.

Those are bare minimums to get her inside the door to be allowed to negotiate.

What's she going to offer to convince you that continuing to be married to her is a more attractive deal any other option out there?

Sounds like she is settling because OM is out of the picture right now. - I do not mean that you are second best at all, I just mean that it seems now that her other option is gone she feels like she should stick with the M.

What do you want? Do you want to work on your marriage? R and D are both VERY tough roads, without remorse, apologies, and transparency R is going to be more like coexisting.

[This message edited by Kamkim at 3:31 PM, October 22nd (Friday)]

says she will be faithful

Said that before in wedding vows, I am with WAL, what else can she offer?

Reason for affair: Says she have not loved me for the last 15 years, says it was my fault because I did not meet her needs, affair was only way to keep the family together and her happy

AAAHHHTTTTT WRONG answer!!!!

You said she has been good to you.......really???

Why does she want to stay married? If she has not loved you for 15 years, and the only happiness she could find was lying and sneaking and such, how can she be happy now and commit to being faithful now if she could not then?

both of us agreed to reconcile

Sounds like only you did, been down this road before, what is different now?

You say you have good communication, but her lack of remorse is a wall between you both. She sounds like she has resentment towards you, perhaps she thinks her affair makes you both even now, so no need to bring up the past, just move forward???

What do you want???

Grace

I would agree with WAL except for one little detail.

She told you she hasn't loved you for 15 years. She never took that back and shows no remorse.

So my question is: what COULD she possibly offer you to make R worth the effort? Perhaps "love" is overrated, but I can't imagine staying married to a woman who outright told me she doesn't love me, hasn't loved me for 15 years, and backs those words up with actions that show she means it.

What could possibly be in R for you? Sex, a cook and a housekeeper? You can hire a cook and a housekeeper and given the profile you present of yourself, I suspect finding sex will not be a problem.

In my mind, 2 of the most key elements necessary to even attempt R is that the WW shows you that she truly loves you and that she shows true remorse. From your post, it sounds like you have no illusions of ever getting either.

It sounds like her thoughts are: I'm 50; I have a good life as far as creature comforts and lifestyle; my H treats me nicely; hhmmmm - I think I don't want to go out on my own so I will agree to stay married.

I normally counsel in favor of trying for R but what you have in your post sounds like a non-starter.

Man she says she will be faithful. That is all she offers you after a 5 year affair ? Sorry guy. Her word isn't believable anymore. No apology, no remorse, no love, no fidelity. Therefore no M.

File for D. Protect yourself. You deserve to find happiness with someone who treats you better. Judging from your post it won't be hard to find somebody and your present wife hasn't set the bar very high.

BTW I don't think it is accurate to say anyone who cheated on you for 5 years was "good" to you.

(((Norseman)))

I don't know if it's true that she doesn't have any love for you. There seems to be a few contradictions in what she's telling you.

A woman capable of having a five year affair is certainly capable of living as a single woman again if she truly doesn't love you.

What could possibly be her gain by living with a man she doesn't love and remaining faithful to him?

It can't be for the financial stability. She's obviously got what it takes to go out and find another man to foot the bill.

Besides, remaining faithful to a man she doesn't love is much to high of a price for an adulterer to pay for financial stability.

What's her reasoning?

OM started new affair with another woman, ended affair with my wife

wife does not want to talk about affair, she does not have any remorse, , no apology, she does not want to talk about us or plan the future

Says she have not loved me for the last 15 years, says it was my fault because I did not meet her needs, affair was only way to keep the family together and her happy

Sounds like she is settling for you because he dumped her.

Situation now: Wants us to stay married

Why?

says she will be faithful

She is a confirmed liar without any remorse for what she did. So explain to me why should you believe her?

And finally like others above have asked, what do you want?

I think the basics needed for reconciliation after a long term affair are:

-extreme remorse

-an extreme willingness to save the marriage

-a willingness to do anything and everything to save the marriage (individual counseling, marriage counseling, discussing details about the affair)

-complete transparency (allowing the BS to see all cell phone records, emails, passwords,etc.)

Don't be second best, don't be kept until something better comes along. If you want to stay with her than have your lawyer prepare a prenuptial agreement with a severe financial penalty if you divorce because of a new infidelity. It just doesn't smell right, why would you want to stay in a loveless marriage with OM's dirt?

Good lord! I vote no.

You need to be VALUED, not just tolerated.

Just one more thing, they can't work together. One of them has to leave, how can she get over him if they see each other every day?

You're absolutely right..aliveagain!

The first thing the WS has to do if they want to reconcile is to go NC with the OM/OW immediately!

@wincing-at-light: Her offer is basically that we have a history of 30 years, I am no longer difficult to be with, not splitting up the family

@imagoodwitch/Raisinmarch: I want to get to the bottom of this to see if there is any chance of ever getting close again. And yeah, she is a rugsweeper, always has been

@Kamkin: I feel like second best, she was dumped, but OM is still only 10 feet away at work

@Graceisgood: Her offer is being faithful, yes she is resentful towards me because I have choosen not to work but care for the family at home, she thinks that a capable man like myself should work, yes she thinks that we are now even because I have been the dominating one

@1985: R for me is getting a better realationship with my wife, I do cooking and keep the house so no need to hire anybody, my posting is cause I can not figure out why she would choose to stay with me

@numb & dumB: By good to me I mean that she has always supported me in my job and in my hobbies, I guess she has sacrified herself even if she is a very popular and successful college teacher

@Rise & Shine: What is her reasoning for staying in the marriage is what puzzles me, money is not an objective at all, she is very good at managing herself, I believe her shyness and low self esteem makes her think finding another man would be difficult, her lover was like me confident, the one that took the lead, she does not know how to approach a man

@bluewater: Why is the key question, and yes she was dumped, I want to know if we can find love again, I do not want to be in a loveless marriage

@njgal480: No remorse, but willingness to to save the marriage, she wants no counceling as she believes that marriage will improve as we move forwards

@aliveagain: I do not want to feel like second best, but that is the impression she gives me right now, as said before money is not an objective, wife has offered to find another job but this means moving, I do not want to as our grand home means very much to me, wife tells me that she has no feelings for OM anymore and that she relates to him like any other co-worker, I myself wants to get even with him but I know it would not benefit me.

I think that she is so used to be with someone she does not love that she can stand 20+ more years. She probably feels that she has had her fling, felt "love" again and proved to herself that she is still attractive. She has had her blossom, now it is time to avoid a scandal

[This message edited by Norseman at 11:36 AM, October 23rd (Saturday)]

I'm extremely cynical. I would worry that she wants you to get a job so she would pay you less in a divorce.

@wincing-at-light: Her offer is basically that we have a history of 30 years, I am no longer difficult to be with, not splitting up the family

Ah, so it's a ransom offer she's making, eh? Take me back or I'll destroy your life/comfort/history/finances.

That said, her story about not loving you for however many years is very likely bullshit. It's a lie she tells herself to justify her affair behaviors in her own mind.

It's very "Bridges of Madison County"...which was shallow even as a novel, but it seemed to appeal to many women who seem to have this belief that if they stop loving, it's their spouse's fault anyway ('cuz we all *deserve* to be happy). They wouldn't have an affair if they were in love...so therefore, not feeling in love makes the affair okay, and the BS's fault *and* doesn't make them a bad/broken person because they're just looking for the love they deserve.

If you asked her, she'd probably give you some spiel about how honorable she's being by consigning herself to a loveless marriage by doing her duty and choosing to keep her vows (*snork*).

It's all lies.

Here's my truth: when a WS doesn't leave the marriage, on some level, they dig what the marriage gives them. Part of that has to be the BS, because not liking someone you're going to live with for years and years is a deal breaker to most sane people.

People talk about being martyrs to the "right" thing, but my experience has been that very few people can actually carry off martyrdom in the long term. In fact, the great thing about martyrdom is that you get the social perks of sacrificing yourself for some lofty ideal and then get put out of your misery in fairly short order.

So, if she wants to stay, it's at least partly because she *does* love you. She just can't admit to it right now because it would mean that she had betrayed that love for a length of dick...and what the hell would that say about the sort of person she is?

No, no. Much better not to love and be a martyr for the "right" thing. That's the path of honor and integrity she so desperately needs to believe she possesses.

@I think I can: It is not about money, besides neither of us cares about money, we are well off but we are no big spenders, where I live the estate will be split 50/50 when divorsing, she wants me to work because she does not respect people that does not work

@wincing_at_light: No, it is not a ransom offer she is making, she is afraid of me leaving her, she says that if I leave it is because I would want to ruin her life and position in the society and her relationship to our kids, and yes I have been told how honorable she has been keeping the family together and what an ass I have been for ruining her affair

I did not know we had such a bad relationship, but then I have been both ignorant and selfish. Her affair made me change my behaviour.

Basically what scares me is that she wants badly to stay married to someone she says she does not love to avoid what she thinks would be a scandal. That is not being sane...