SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I think WS & OW are 50%/50% to blame.

In our situation, WH's coworker OW knew WH was married, had met our daughter. OW, who is 20 yrs younger than I, divorced without children, flaunted around work in tight low cut clothing. She sat next to WH at work every day, & according to our daughter ( daughter told me this after Dday), who went to work with WH one day, OW was constantly touching WH, whispering in his ear & giggling.

According to WH, she "was the hottest girl at work, all the guys were drooling after her."

OW pursued WH as if she had him in the crosshairs of her rifle, during the lowest point of our marriage. Our MC says it was the perfect storm.

OW got in WH's car after a group lunch, & said: " I have such a crush on you why don't I be your mistress."

Nobody held a gun to his head, WH could have said : "Thank you, I'm very flattered, but I'm married."

But he didn't. He went for it.

Yes, WH is 50% to blame , but I don't think the A would have happened if OW had not pursued WH.

Not a day passes that I don't think of her with hatred.

Mchercheur:

Me too. Hate those perfect storms.

That was a bad point in our M too. Would it have happened with someone else? Would our M have gotten better on its own? We will never know.

I am just saying. 12yrs of commitment and now he cheats! I don't think he would have without her advances. But, he didn't say No either.

(((hopefulmother)))

Best of luck to you. I hope you guys make it. I hope we make it. I still don't know if I will stay in this M once all the kids are launched.

It's all too tempting to blame the AP and believe your partner was somehow misled, or misguided, or manipulated. That's clinging to the false believe that your sweetie is still there and just confused. Which is bollocks. They betrayed you.

All too often, when some of us say we hate the OP or blame them "just as much" as our spouse, what is heard by others is that we blame the OP for all of it, and let our spouse off the hook.

I actually think it is quite rare that a BS does not hold their spouse responsible, also. And I would agree that a BS who feels it is "all" the OPs fault probably needs to get out of his/her own fog.

It is going on 7 years for me, and the extreme anger and hatred for the whore has turned to something more like indifference but I still hate the kind of person she is.

She went after my H at the lowest time of his life, following the deaths of his mother and DD. Anyone who thinks that I was not angry with my H for falling for that, should think again. In the early days he got ALL the anger. But as time went by, I saw just how remorseful he really was, and how he devoted his entire life to our M and trying to be the best H he can be. Even now, he tells me he owes me everything.

I still hate the type of woman that whore is, and I don't believe for one second she is remorseful. I love my H. He did my wrong, but it was my choice to forgive him when I saw how remorseful he is. It really rubs me the wrong way when people say I should not hold her accountable at all and should be "angry" at my H. Well, IMO there would be no R if we must remain angry at our H forever. As far as continuing to hate the OP, well I sure see no reason to forgive anyone who is not sorry, whether it is your WS or the OP.

I really can't blame the AP at all. My xgf told him we had an open relationship and their activity was strictly about sex. And if I'm to believe her story about their night together (which many here have said is probably bs: more like nights), he couldn't do anything (possible, not probable).

Assuming her story about him is accurate (again doubtful), he was a better friend to me than she was. And he probably believed her story. So I'm in a different boat than most of you who had predators lusting after your SO' and who were contemptuous of the bonds between you.

phoenixrivers

H had an EA. Maybe I would feel differently if it were a PA, but I feel nothing toward her. Call my hypocritical, but if she knew me, if we had some sort of relationship, then it would be different. Then she would be betraying our friendship. But as it is, we've never met or spoken whatsoever. Whatever she knows about me is what she heard from H.

As my sociology professor often said, Affairs are not about the OP, they're about a need within the WS. Had this OW not been there, H would have attached to someone else, of that I am 100% sure.

In my case the AP was a friend. She knew me and our kids. We had playdates together. She had been to our home. It didn't matter to her. She chased WH for weeks, asking for sex.

I am also afraid of putting all that anger on WH. How can I be in R with someone with that much anger towards him?. It feels better to hate her.

My FWH's AP's all knew he was married. He never told them he was in a bad marriage. He never said he was going to leave me. They were not victims of his. They were after him just as much as he went after them. Quite mutual on both parts. His LTA even wanted to have his baby.

Yes, I hold them just as responsible. They knew about me, they knew about our five children. Hell his LTA knew about my health issues, I think she was secretly hoping I'd die and she could have him.

Just as my FWH was equally to blame in the destruction of the one married AP he had who also had 4 children.

I'm going to jump on the "Yeah, I mostly blame my WS, but the AP is getting some blame, too" boat, and also add "...and any friends who knew about the A, too." It's been coming up A LOT in MC, because one of my wife's friends knew about the A and said nothing to me about it, and I have been hot pissed about it lately. She thinks she was being loyal and a good friend. Now listen, I admire loyalty, I really do. And if my wife and I had no children, maybe....just maybe...I could buy the idea that she was being a loyal friend by keeping my wife's secret for her. However, where it doesn't hold up for me is when there's a child involved.

While I am one one of the wronged parties in this whole sordid affair, I'm sure that my wife's friend was fed the whole 'unhappiness' line of BS that the AP was, and so she believed that what my wife was doing was....well, 'ok', for lack of a more specific term. However, the potential effects of infidelity on children are devastating, and my feeling is that if someone has knowledge of wrongdoing that could result in the harming of the welfare of an innocent, there is a MORAL RESPONSIBILITY to say something about it. My MC said "Well, now you're making [friend] responsible for [DS]'s welfare?" No, my wife made her responsible to a degree by including her in the A, in a sense. And this is not just my belief. We as a society have decided that negligence through inaction is not only wrong, but sometimes criminally wrong. I mean, if a teacher has a strong belief that a child is being abused at home, he has a responsibility to say something, no? Here's a personal example: I am a bartender IRL, and if someone leaves my bar intoxicated and goes out and hits someone, the person that the drunk driver hit can sue the everloving shit out of me and my establishment, whether we served them or not. That means that if someone walks in drunk off their ass, and I personally refuse to serve them, but also let them leave without calling them a taxi or calling the police, I can be held responsible under the law.... because I knew of a potentially harmful situation, and did nothing about it. And if that's true of third party actors like friends, then it is certainly true of the AP as well. So maybe, to me, the culpability looks something like this, portion-wise: 50% spouse, 45% AP, 5% anyone who knew and did nothing about it.

I get that due to the fog and all that jazz, these people were not thinking through their action to their logical conclusions...or maybe in the friends case she didn't know what infidelity could do to children, long-term....but you know what? It's not my job to give a shit about their lack of knowledge, wisdom, etc., when it comes to the welfare of my son. These are excuses ("not my responsibility") to help people avoid, and then feel better about avoiding, situations which make them feel uncomfortable and god forbid, might require you to display backbone and integrity. I feel like everyone is so damned conflict avoidant now that no one is willing to call someone out and say, "Hey, you know what? That is some really seriously shitty behavior you're exhibiting, and you should probably KNOCK IT THE FUCK OFF."

I am going to speak to this as a WS first. I had that "perfect storm" situation if there is such a thing. And a AP that pursued hard. Bottom line, that doesn't matter. It was my JOB to make sure that I was not in that position, and I failed. I don't care how hard someone pursues, there are ways to make sure the message is heard. Believe me.

As a BS, I hold my H responsible, he owed me fidelity. Not her. And I don't have enough headspace for her anyway. She is irrelevant to me.

I've gotten the "it's not OW' who betrayed your vows, it was XH" routine, mostly from people who have never been through infidelity. I 100% disagree with this theory. Maybe she didn't personally owe me anything, but she sure as shit knew what she was doing. Her entire goal was to take my husband and the life she imagined he had for herself. The problem of course is that life was a figment of his imagination. You know, the one where I don't do anything but nag, and he works so hard and brings home all this money, singlehandedly supporting us?

I'm sure WS's give a great sales pitch that vulnerable AP's believe, even in spite of the glaring red flags. But in my opinion, the second you decide that you can and should interfere in someone's marriage, even if it's portrayed as a bad one, you are equally responsible for the consequences. OW owes me an apology for her part in the horror show me and DD went through. I know that will never happen, and so that makes me feel perfectly justified in despising her. She's a bad person.

I think you eventually give them less head space. It's like anyone you don't like--IF you think about them at all, the feelings are negative. But it shouldn't be te focus of your life.

I hold the AP accountable too and will hate her til the day I die. She lied to my face about this which is something my WH at least had the decency not to do. He is more at fault but I can communicate that to him. My anger at her is impotent. She was one of my best friends and knew damn well we were married.

True...but neither did your husband.

That's why the last line of my post says I hold her just as responsible as my husband. I never said she is more responsible than my husband. I'm four years down the road from my d-day and believe me I am well seasoned in who is ultimately to blame. However, I can and will put blame/anger/hate whatever you want to call it on an adult married OW that went into the whole situation eyes wide open and willing to take no prisoners to get what she wanted. The difference is my husband has spent the last for years paying for and righting what he did -- she could careless the pain she caused me--that's probably why it is really hard for me to let go of my feelings of blame/hate towards her. A total stranger that tries to do everything in their power to assist in wrecking a life/marriage and never looks back--yeah pisses me off!

As my sociology professor often said, Affairs are not about the OP, they're about a need within the WS. Had this OW not been there, H would have attached to someone else, of that I am 100% sure.

I disagree with your sociology professor. In some cases, if it were not for the OW that happened to "be there" it would NOT necessarily have been someone else.

In cases where they manipulate and pursue during extreme circumstances of the WS, it is very likely that someone that persistant would NOT exist in the same time or place, and the A would NOT happen.

I will say that in my first M, my XH was most likely the main pursuer and because of this, I had little energy to spend on the multitudes of women who went along with it. And I was also one who would probably wonder why so many BS place as much "blame" on the OP as they do. But then after what happened in my current M, I see things completely differently and realize every situation is different, even more than I ever did before. I think there is a very good chance my H would never have had an A if it had not been for THE WHORE. It makes him no less repsonsible for what happened but she is a whore and I hate the kind of person that she is, and that is not going to change.

[This message edited by Bobbi_sue at 9:52 AM, May 19th (Sunday)]

I've gotten the "it's not OW' who betrayed your vows, it was XH" routine, mostly from people who have never been through infidelity. I 100% disagree with this theory. Maybe she didn't personally owe me anything, but she sure as shit knew what she was doing.

^^^^^^I have to agree with this. OW in my case was WH's former coworker/first love. They met up for lunch after 30 years to "touch base". She knew he was married - he showed her pictures of me and our kids! She was also married with 5 kids, plus grandchildren. No, she didn't break any vows to me and yes I hold WH 100% responsible for his actions. She owed me nothing except the simple human decency one person owes another...not to wantonly interfere with and ruin a complete stranger's life. That do unto others thing.

I don't hate her any longer, but it took a long time and a lot of therapy to get to this point. I still feel tremendous dislike and contempt for her.

As a BS, I hold my H responsible, he owed me fidelity. Not her. And I don't have enough headspace for her anyway. She is irrelevant to me.

I feel like my friend owed it to me not to screw around with my husband. I also feel like my FWH owed the same to his friend. He is responsible for the damage done to MOW's M also. I like FacePunched's distribution of blame.

(Not directed at you, TG, but a general question.) What is with the urge to absolve the AP of responsibility? I can say that holding her partly responsible has not changed my expectation that FWH do what is required to make amends and deal with his own issues. I would expect that while most BS's wish that they could put it all on the AP and somehow find their WS was just a victim, that doesn't happen much IRL. And shifting blame away from their WS might serve a short term need, but doesn't last, so why push it? Let the feelings be felt and dealt with instead of saying "you shouldn't feel that way."

I blame the OW for her part. She had known me and my children for a few years and there were zero stories of an unhappy marriage, except for hers. Her marriage was falling apart and she was in a career transition and she thought my H would save her. He did help her career, but never promised her one thing more. This did not stop her from threatening to tell me if he didn't do what she wanted, or blaming him for her loneliness, or pouting for weeks if he didn't give her a birthday card. He backed off more and more and she became more desperate.

Her excuse to me? She was lonely. She wouldn't call herself a "victim" (she said that twice). A lonely person should find an unmarried person, right???

I think she's pathetic. The crumbs that she accepted for years just shows how little she valued herself. My fWH was still with his family and his wife the majority of the time; every weekend, holiday, vacation. Now no one wants her around at my fWH's business, where she needs to go sometimes for work stuff. Everyone dislikes her there, so now she avoids going in.

It pisses me off that everyone knows about the A, partly because she is such a train wreck and I am not. I feel humiliated that people know my fWH made such a bad choice. People he works with have actually said "bad choice, dude." to him, to which he replied "the worst."

But I know that I did nothing wrong, my fWH is doing all he can to make it up to me, and I pity her more than hate her. She has a failed marriage, wasted years being treated like crap by a married man, and now is persona nongrata around other co-professionals. So there!

I hate OW1, she is my friends wife. All through the affair she would seek me out where I work to chat me up. Even came to me for help when their dog was sick as I am the go to person on sick critters. How she could look me in the face for such a long time while they were doing what they did. Ya I hate her...with a firey passion.

In cases where they manipulate and pursue during extreme circumstances of the WS, it is very likely that someone that persistant would NOT exist in the same time or place, and the A would NOT happen.

I'll have to agree here, that, in some cases, this does happen.

Yes our WS are responsible and owed us those vows, but, no one stopped the OM from saying NO.

He could have excercised his option of saying no to the affair.

In my case, ex used to hate females she knew who were having extramarital affairs. She simply could not stand the sight of WS she knew.

I remember an incident where she was so irritated by one WS in her previous office that she went to the extent of indirectly blasting the WS taunting how idiots people having EMAs were.

I also remember her not wanting to hear about divorces and marital beakups of others in our family conversations.

Ex was a person who would nip it in the bud at the slightest hint of flirting/unjustified comments thrown at her. She used to tell me whenever she did that.

I openly blame OM for taking advantage of my absence out of the country.

I blame him for taking advantage of his position as a personnel manager and digging about our marriage. Finding out if there is a problem and trying to be her KISA.

I blame OM of showing her dreams of becoming a manager using shortcuts.

I blame OM for teaching her shortcuts at work.

I blame OM for tracking her how to talk to me.

I blame OM for teaching her how to wriggle out of situations by blaming me as a bad husband.

I blame OM for falsely potraying ex how a perfect man he was, when he wasn't (OBS's words).

I blame OM for making her lose faith in God. (she's an atheist now)

I blame OM for the horrible person she became.

I blame OM for the fact that my DS will grow up in a broken home, when now he is back with OBS probably still in contact in every sense with ex.

Per OBS OM was a womaniser right from college days and destroyed many lives before ex. One girl is still paralysed from the left side of her body due to an unexpected sudden breakup.

One woman still writes poems about him in local newspapers.

OM was was having an A with another female in the same office as ex, before he met ex. She used to address OM by his pet name in officical emails.

God has been kind to him, I think I'm the bad person here. This is wrong time of history to live in.

I do not blame the affair partner. I do HATE her.

She didn't make the affair possible my wh did by not turning her down or telling mow off. I blame him 100% BUT that doesn't absolve mow. She knew me. She knew my children. She is married also. She set out to seduce and steal my husband. She took from me as a woman and a wife. Wh gave her this power. She is pathetic and gross. She knows it. Hopefully her bs keeps her on a short leash because she doesnt know how to keep her mouth or her legs closed. My wh...he was just as pathetic and gross. If mow's bs hates him thats fine with me. Cheaters are selfish. A label is a label. A wh, ww, Ap, op, mom, mow, ow, om etc. they are all cheaters and liars. What comes around goes around. Imo you have to be pretty low to mess with someones spouse whatever the case may be.