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You need to consult an attorney about visitation an support for the kids, divorce if Canada recognizes common law marriages too.

UPDATE:

He has called my cell phone every day for the last 3 days since our conversation (arguement?) on Monday when I found out he's engaged.

I do not wish to speak to him and let it go to voice mail.

I'd like to point out that he has not tried to call the home phone where the girls will pick up if they see on the display that the call is from him. So I don't believe that I am doing anything wrong by not answering his calls.

On the voicemail he sounds exasperated that I will not pick up the phone. He says he wants to get my agreement that the girls can meet with him and ...."her". He feels like he is entitled to that. "So, just answer the phone."

Oh, really?

Entitled much? It was that entitlement that started this whole ugly thing wasn't it?

I found out through a mutual friend that he is planning a birthday party for DOW (divorced OW) on Saturday at a fancy restaurant. He even went so far as to invite his ex wife to the party. This is the same woman whom he dumped DOW for 23 years ago and then subsequently married.

He never married me.

She told me she would not go to the party. We shall see if that is true. I was a little grateful that she would boycott. I'm not 100% sure I can trust what she says all the time.

So, his ex wife thinks that I should stick to my guns and tell him that I don't want the girls meeting "her". She says that they will not like her and the meeting will happen eventually but it doesn't have to happen now.

Honestly, he pissed me off with his talk of entitlement.

He's entitled to ignore my wishes because they are "engaged". How do I know that's really true and not just what he is telling me to get his way?

We were invited to a pool party on Saturday and the invitation pre dated his revelation on his engagement.

We are busy. He will want them to meet some other time. She is here for a week. Don't know when she arrives and don't know when she leaves.

Why do you think that he is pushing this so hard right now? I believe it is pressure from her. I believe that she is making this a condition somehow.

It's all driving me crazy.

How can I control the meeting when and if it actually happens?

Shameless bump.

Does anyone have any advice for a controlled first meeting with the OP?

I still have not spoken to ex in person (only through text).

He continues to call and spoke to the kids last night on the phone.

He will push until he gets what he wants.

I hate him.

Just say no. She's only going to be here for a short time so you should be able to avoid the issue this time out. I would quite simply tell him that you aren't ready, the kids aren't ready, and she hasn't been divorced long enough (if she's really divorced at all) and they aren't meeting her at this time. Period. What's the worst he could do? By the time he gets a court date to argue it, she'll be gone.

[This message edited by Tearsoflove at 4:16 PM, July 12th (Friday)]

I'm sorry, the girls and I already have plans for this weekend.

He can't just breeze into town and expect you to cancel any plans you have made every time. That's what he does, right? You never know when he's going to be here, or there, or whatever. You have had this invite, you are not lying, the girls are with you this Saturday. Go to your pool party and enjoy yourself. Forget about him for the day.

As far as controlling when they meet her...I really don't know how much control you can have. What you can control:

Do the girls even know about her yet?

Do the girls know daddy is engaged?

Do the girls see enough of him to care?

You are going to have to talk to him at some point, and just lay it out. You want to intro your whore? First, YOU need to spend time with the girls, more than one night a month when you breeze into town. You need to take them to dinner and tell them that you are seeing someone, and engaged, if that's the truth. THEN, you need to give them TIME, like a few weeks, to process it.

Think of it this way...you may not be able to control them never meeting her. What you can try to control is that the first meeting is just for an hour, over dinner or something. Not a week up at the cottage where they can't escape her. Tell him no sleep overs with the tramp, or the girls don't sleep over. Start there...see what other boundaries you think you need. You know at this point she isn't going away anytime soon, and he's going to intro them at some point. Think of what is least offensive to you.

(((hugs)))

The girls know. Yes. They also knew that she was married. He showed them a picture of her with her husband and son. He told them it was her husband. Why he didn't lie as usual i'll never know.

I told them he was engaged. One DD was excited she would go to her first wedding. I told her the wedding may not happen or she might not be there. I don't know.

I told them that just because daddy likes her it doesn't mean they have to. They should decide for themselves. I said they will probably meet her but I didn't know when.

One said "well you don't like her". I said that I've never met her so I don't know her.

I def want to control the first meeting. I was thinking a quick introduction and hi was enough. Dinner seems a bit much right now.

He doesn't even take overnights so hell no on that.

You are right DM. He needs to see them more before this bitch gets a crack. He barely calls them let alone actually see them.

That is why I can't figure what the push is. I think it's pressure from her.

"How do I know you are serious about me when I haven't met your kids?"

It's the only thing that makes sense.

How long has she been divorced? I would ask for proof that she's divorced. I would also tell him they need to be in a stable, long term relationship(post divorce) before the kids meet her. Just because they are engaged doesn't mean the relationship will last or even that it's stable.

If you can tolerate it, I would go as far to demand you meet her before your kids do.

If he only sees the kids for a few hours at most. I would make that first meeting be just lunch or something. Make a time limit of an hour.

Honestly, this time you could probably get away with just saying no the kids and I have plans.

If you can tolerate it, I would go as far to demand you meet her before your kids do.

I completely disagree with this. It will do nothing but add fuel to the already raging fire.

Do not discuss it with him. Talk to your L about what you can/cannot legally put a stop to and work from there.

Are your kids in IC? If not I strongly suggest it. An IC can help you deal with this in terms of them too.

NC means not letting anyone give you info about them either. You are giving them both waaaaay too much headspace. They are on an ego kibble glut right now - you are making them very very important to you. They are not.

Take back your power.

They are going to meet her. She is going to be around whenever they see their dad. They now know their dad is engaged. They know she was/is married.

Please tell me what it is you think you are protecting them from by getting into this crazy with him? I haven't looked at your profile but is there something of concern to you (besides the obvious).

You cannot control him or what he does. Do what you can legally and stop focussing on the rest.

I am living through my precious little girls being around his whore self and his whore - there is nothing I can do about it. I could be making it worse by making it a bigger shitstorm than it already is.

Peridot. She has been divorced literally only days.

I have no proof she is divorced or that they are engaged.

I was going to tell him that it won't happen this visit. Everything is so new.

SBB, the issue I guess is that she will not actually be around the kids that much. They are long distance. She lives overseas. She rarely comes here to visit. He normally travels to see her. He rarely sees the kids lately. She is only here for a week and its the first time she has been here this year as far as I know.

He told me he will probably go there. He will relocate if they marry.

That was my main reason for her not meeting the kids. It's not like they live together.

Like I said, I'm not sure what the push is all of a sudden.

Lola, I wouldn't agree to it then. He may do it any way, if not this time maybe the next, but I wouldn't give him your blessing.

After a blissful weekend of NC, he is at it again. No calls just text. Wants to take them to dinner. No mention of DOW.

I said maybe next week and he admitted she is still here.

I am at IC right now.

Told him I was at the doctor. For an ulcer.

I can lie too right?

Hey you. How you holding up? Has he given up yet? Hopefully she's on her way back from where she came.

DM. Blissful NC today and yesterday. Apparently he took her to Montreal.

I hope she leaves soon.

Let's hope he forgets the way back. Or that Quebec decides to separate NOW, and closes the borders.

Get custody legally settled NOW. What if she takes a shine to your girls and asks him to fight for custody? She has money and knows how to manipulate him. Take her out of the equation before they marry. Settle your custody issues between the two of you. Don't let her get her foot in the door any further.

Seriously don't delay, you don't want to be fighting the two of them, and having her egging him on to take the kids. Now, NOW, NOW is your time window. Don't think he will play fair if she wants the girls too!

I'm not worried about him wanting custody (much). He doesn't want to be a father. To his kids or to her son.

Today I am so profoundly down that I don't know what to do.

I have been NC since the conversation when he told me he was engaged.

His friend who attended the skank's birthday party on Saturday night called to tell me a little. (yes, I know I should not hear about this at all even from outside sources. I was curious and knew that I need to detach but sometimes the heart wants what the heart wants.)

I needed to know. It's as I expected. He dotes on her and she said that they are obviously in love. It didn't even hurt. I was expecting it. I know that it's the beginning of the relationship and that is the way he is in the beginning, it changes. He gets bored.

The part that I have a hard time getting over is the marriage. I know it will or won't happen, really up in the air. He told the friend that they are engaged and it took "some work" convincing her to agree.

Really,it's not the marriage for him that bothers me.

It's the fact that he never, ever wanted to marry me.

He never wanted to commit to me in that way.

We were together for 12 years and he said that he was committed and didn't need the piece of paper. Marriage was a sham and people are brain washed into thinking it's forever.

So, why does he want forever now?

The blameshifting and rewriting our history has been done so I guess now he's a fan of marriage.

It doesn't help with me feeling like I wasn't good enough. I knew I wasn't good enough for him. He had no qualms telling me that. I know that it was abuse but it will take some time to get over it.

Also, I was having a conversation with my DD last night. I wanted her to be prepared for what might happen. Her father may just move to Europe to be with his new wife. She opened up to me and asked why daddy has to be on the phone with his girlfriend when he is with them (the twins) at a restaurant or wherever they go. I told her that she should tell daddy how she feels when he does this.

Bottom line: She misses him. She said she misses him when he travels to see his girlfriend. She says she would be ok meeting the girlfriend because I think she knows that's the only way she will get to see her father.

She cried. I told her that she could talk to me anytime about anything. She came to me later and wanted to talk about some of her fears about going into grade 4 this year and about math. So, I guess it worked, she comes to me.

I don't know if anyone has advice. I need to go back to the process of detachment. I know what needs to be done. NC about him.

The feelings are still there and need to be processed.

It's things that I have heard expressed here.

I guess I just wanted to get it off my chest.

((Lola)) I think we all break NC until we've been hurt enough. I hated hearing stuff about him but I felt like I NEEDED to know.

Until I was hurt enough. Then I didn't need to know anymore. Life has been so much better since then.

I think you've been hurt enough honey.

A marriage is not a forever. Certainly not between a WS/AP.

The sad clown was desperate to marry me and have children. DESPERATE. Pushed and pushed and pushed. I thought that it meant he loved me and that it meant forever too. It didn't. It doesn't.

They are just shiny things his bird brain likes to collect to show everyone what a great life he has - what a great guy he is. It is all a facade. An act.

Years ago I remember watching a Dr Phil show once where he talked about how you measure a man not by how he treats his wife in public but in private (same goes for both genders).

He always treated me amazingly well in public. Affectionate, touchy, sweet, gentle, attentive. He doted on me and I loved it. To this day people talk about 'how in love' we were.

Hearing that one line by Dr Phil it dawned on me (many many years before DD) that he only ever treated me that way when we were in public - never in private. It made me really sad. I had his measure many years ago but did nothing about it.

It's strange that you mention the Dr. Phil quote.

I have heard that before and found that with ex it was the opposite.

He used to, in the beginning, treat me better in private. He was affectionate and loving and doting.

In public he would kind of ignore me at parties, go off and do his own thing and leave me to fend for myself. It was hard being socially shy and I found myself sitting in a corner at most parties.

We used to car pool to work and he would not want to give me a kiss as I got out of the car.

I remember him telling me that his ex wife saw us cross the street somewhere holding hands and then he very rarely took my hand in public after that.

I am aware that there was emotional and verbal abuse at home as well but it always struck me that he was this way in public.

I believe now that he was ashamed of me.

Whether it's true or not is up to debate.

He once said that he wished he could be more proud of me.

His culture is very appearance oriented. I do not meet his standards of nice appearance (granted - a generalization likely but in my experience the general rule).

I just found out too late that there is very little of substance underneath (certainly where he is concerned).

It's something I work on in IC. I have a guy at work now telling me that if I was back in his country they would be lining up to date me.

It's difficult and it hampers my NB in a big way.

I just thought it was an interesting difference between us SBB.

So, just a question. Anyone know how Switzerland reacts to child abduction to their country?

I know the 2009 report states that they are not very helpful, and usually are not useful for sending the child back to the states.

Another thought in all of this if he does move over there, and then asks for the kids to visit.

I believe Switzerland has a realationship with Canada as far as CS enforcement goes.

I have their passports in a safe place. Not in my possession.

I have been assured through a lawyer that I do not have to comply to any request of his to have them visit him there. He has no legal recourse to make me send them to him without a legal custody agreement.

Really, he rarely sees them when he is here.

OW has a son.

If he leaves, big if, I will file for sole legal custody under the grounds of abandonment.