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Like others have said, you're not in recovery if the AP is being protected by the WS...

Don't tell her. In fact, this reminds me of the bullying I endured. For too damn long.

Here's what I did.

I let her assume that she had me cowed, that I was going along with her.

All the while I was taking steps to be separated & protected.

I minimized the damage to me by doing it this way.

Good luck!

If she says that, she wants control and shows no remorse. Try packing her bags and telling her "ok, we're through, get out!" Then I would STILL contact the other betrayed spouse.

[This message edited by deena04 at 6:43 AM, August 5th (Tuesday)]

respond with... "by saying that statement, we already are"

Tell the AP's BS. She deserves to know, give proof, don't tell your WS, just do it.

I was one that told the OBS, I didn't tell my WS I was going to and it took me about 2 months to gather enough information to find her.

The AP and WS were both shocked. It caused a little bit of ruckus.

Please tell the spouse. My WH was outted by OW's BH. I deserved to know. That innocent wife deserves the truth. Your wife deserves to deal with the ramifications of the lives she has ruined. Do NOT keep her secrets. We are only as sick as our secrets.

what others have said. You are NOT in R and cannot R if the OP is being protected by your wife. So you need to not say anything right now but contact the other BW and tell her about the A. She deserves to know what is happening in her marriage so she can make some decisions too. Do not tell your WW you are making the contact. After you have informed the BW then tell your wife. If it means you are through then fine because had you said nothing to the BW you were through anyhow. If she is still protecting the OP you are done anyhow.

But....since the excrement will hit those whirling blades, spend some time,preparing. Consult an attorney to,see what you can do to financially protect yourself. You don't, for instance,,want a credit card where you are liable,used to finance a love nest if they get together after being tossed out. Or find your bank accounts drained.

What is the law re lock,changing evictions,for WS? You may not be able to do that and could be in trouble if you do. Ditto for VAR in her car, key logging e computer, and other electronic espionage. You have too much to lose by making legal mistakes now.

Once you know your rights and obligations, then tell his wife without telling WS first. Have your proof in written form for her if she wants it.

Right now, your WW is still living in fantasy land and her judgment is so jacked up that it isn't worth considering in this instance. I was faced with the similar situation and of course my WW begged me not to contact the OM either. Understandably, as a BS we are devastated by the revelation of the A. I was probably too loving, caring and compassionate towards my WW in the days and weeks after D-day. But there was one thing that I was not going to have dictated to me by her or anyone else. I knew there were certain things that I was going to do regardless of whether she wanted me to or not. And contacting the OM and exposing the A to his family and friends was one of these things that I did and it didn't matter what she said about it. At the time, her opinion had zero weight in this regard.

While I never screamed or yelled at my WW for her A, there was one thing I told her that she must never do and that was that she could never, under any circumstances, ever defend the OM or put him ahead of me for anything. After she realized I had exposed the A to the OM's family, the OM instantly called my WW and blasted her for her confessing the A to me. Suddenly, the OM was such a great guy after all but she did come close to defending him during this exchange and I let her have it like I have never before in my life. She balled up in a ball lying on the floor in the closet and cried for two hours. This very moment was the death of the A once and forever.

The way I see it, it is your duty to notify the OM's wife and let her know about the A. Your WW should have absolutely no say in this decision.

I will tell you want I did. I took my W's phone from her and contacted both OM and OMW that evening around 1 AM. There was not waiting and I did not ask.

I strongly recommend you don't ask you W this question, you make the call. No reason to call the bluff, just figure it out yourself and do it. You are making decisions for you right now, you are not longer a team, especially if she is saying shit like that.

take care...

My fWH said the same thing. I told him to go ahead if that's what he wanted. He was protecting OW still, and I wasn't having it. I wasn't angry, or scared. I strongly felt he had a right to know. I hadn't yet started reading SI, or anything else. I just knew he had a right to know, and I was going to give him the truth.

fWH first said it was trailer trash, then started chanting "Jerry, Jerry" saying it was jerry springer crap, and then said if I called him he was leaving. This was all withing 5 minutes. I didn't care at all. I kept telling him I didn't care, and I was telling him. I never got up or even got upset. I also never changed my mind.

Within another 5 minutes, he gave up and said 'do what you want' and that was that. The next morning I called OBS and told him. Lucky for me, he owned his own business so his phone number was on his FB account. I told him everything and send their FB messages.

My fWH is still here, over 3 years later. He never went anywhere, and never asked about my conversation with OBS.

Your WS still thinks they're controlling the situation. It's up to you to say if you are, or WS is. For me, I was. That wasn't in question.

I suggest telling OBS. I always do. If they had discovered this, would you want to be told? I would. That's why I was hell bent on telling him - it's what I would want if he had discovered it. WS and OW had already shown they didn't give a shit about me. Why on earth should I give a shit about what they want? I was more concerned with what was right than what he wanted - since nothing he wanted was right.

She does not call the shots, you do. Call your lawyer get you stuff together. And let your fingers do the walking. Call them in front of her. Do not let her threaten you with such BS.

If that is her attitude then there is no reason to have her around.

And tell her don't ever threaten me again you lying cheating you fill in the blank. And kick her ass out.

Then rip her to shreds in the divorce.

Contact an attorney right away. You need to protect yourself.

Toronto

Went back to your first posts.

This is the woman that wanted an open relationship…

Well… by definition an “open” relationship requires everyone’s knowledge and permission. You, wife (who then wouldn’t be a wayward wife…), OM and OMW. At the moment it’s not an “open” relationship – it’s an affair.

You never got back to me (or the other posters that replied to your first post…) on the separation:

When the MC negotiated the 50/50 arrangement then did he address other separation issues? Personally I’m not too fond of separation as a tool to work on a marriage, but if it’s done then there has to be an agreement on ground-rules. For example: did the MC tell you that you two could date other people while separated? Does the separation have a defined purpose?

The answer to the above could impact what I would advise.

However… What I would suggest is that you focus on a key-issue and that is making the affair reality. Snapping it out of fantasy and making your WW realize what SHE is risking. You see – even if this ends in divorce then I have a feeling her long-term loss will be more than yours. Both financially and emotionally.

It’s not something you can tell her. You can’t tell her that OM will kick her out of his life to save his marriage because nothing you say is credible to her. She has to experience it.

Same with the effects of divorce: Chances are a court will grant her some spousal support but generally in Canada it’s relatively limited as she does work 20 hours and therefore is capable of working and generating an income. With no further info on your situation I’m 99% certain a divorce would require her to make serious material changes to her life and lifestyle.

Right now she’s probably thinking the affair was “OK”.

She’s thinking she still lives her lifestyle. She’s thinking she has every other weekend off the family and kids. She’s thinking she can stay at the home for those times and then the condo for her free time (btw - how do you sleep in the bed she had her lover in? Ever find a wet-spot?). Heck –the affair with this OM might be over but what is she doing when she’s in the condo? Watch TV in the evenings or stalk bars?

Once again – not knowing your separation arrangements we can’t say if she’s accountable, if you are reconciling or what.

But… Your best bet is to be very firm on your conditions of reconciling.

Exposing to the OMW isn’t a condition. It isn’t even negotiable. It’s not something you discuss with your wife. It’s something you simply do. So definitely do so. Don’t negotiate it with WW or warn her. Simply pick up that phone and make the call. Be gentle, don’t expect her to welcome the call and she doesn’t have to believe you. But make that call. Like now. NOW.

And if your wife thinks this “betrayal” is the end of your marriage… then so be it.

But… if she says your marriage is over then you start the procedures of making that happen and you do so realistically. Something tells me that once she sees that along with half the house she gets half your tuition fees, half the cars along with half the debt, child support in accordance with children’s residence (and at the moment you have them 50/50), limited spousal support… her determination will flounder…

Toronto – Your situation is recoverable. But to-date I have not seen a single case where the conditions the WS puts forward are a realistic base for reconciliation. To reconcile the affair must be completely DEAD. Including the fantasy. It’s like cancer treatment where you basically try to kill the cancer and hope it doesn’t kill the patient too. You have to act firmly and hope your marriage survives because otherwise it’s guaranteed to die.

Given my own experience, it may also be that your WS does not want you to contact the AP because there is more to hide. I discovered my WH's LTA when I walked in on them, but it was the OW who later clued me in to all of the other wayward behavior I did not yet know about. By keeping you apart, your WS can continue to lie to you about any number of things.

TorontoGuy: I echo everything Bigger already mentioned, and I would like to add a few things....

Firstly, we all understand what an incredibly hard time you are going through now and the tough decisions you need to make. The problem with A's early on is that emotions are so raw it's incredibly hard to do what needs to be done and/or even to figure out what should be done.

I read your other posts and understand you work a lot. DO NOT let anyone make you feel you are partially to blame for your WW's decision to step outside the M. I'm sure you've been told that because you work so many hours (especially with your profession, as only other Canadian's may understand just how much pressure there is on our MD's nowadays) your WW was lonely and the implication is her A is partly your fault...along with a slew of other excuses. You both may have contributed to problems in the M but there isn't anything you did that justifies her having an A, or her needing to have an 'open' M.

Although your WW appears to have admitted 'flirting' with her AP to you first in hopes of your blessing for her desire to take it further, chances are the A has been much more involved and ongoing than she has indicated. Your reaction was not what she hoped for and it's highly unlikely that she went NC and at this point she likely has no plans whatsoever to go NC, but instead they will take the A further 'underground'. Her ultimate threat that your M is over if you contact the AP's BS only supports this assumption, because if you follow through you really do pose a threat to her A by forcing her AP to deal with the fallout on his end which will also result in his having to choose his own M over that of any R with your WW. At this point your WW may not be confident of her R with the AP and she is probably afraid that he will throw her under the bus and the A will be over if it is exposed. Furthermore, your WW has no right whatsoever to give you an ultimatum about this. Whether she argues that it should be kept private to save yours, hers, or the AP's reputation or some other excuse, the fact is this is the consequence of stepping outside the M, made worse by becoming involved with someone else who is M, and that BS has the right to know. IMHO, you owe it to the other BS to inform her everything you know A related.

I hope you follow through with this. Regardless of the outcome, I'm certain you will regret not doing so in time. What the other BS does with the info afterwards is up to her, but most times the other BS appreciates this and often, including in my own case, both BS's tend to stay in contact afterwards and share information which is beneficial to each other.

Afterwards, expect your WW to explode in anger as she will at first feel you are robbing her of her one true chance at real happiness (although she won't admit this, at least right away). She may look like, act like, and feel like the W you have always known and loved but trust us, you most likely will see a new side to her you NEVER would expect! As if she has been possessed by an evil spirit or some kind of alien. Some call this being in "the fog". I highly, highly recommend you buy a VAR (voice activated recorder) and keep it hidden on you during any interactions with her for the next little while. The reason for this is because once the A is exposed, both your WW and her AP will be faced with the decision of continuing on or not. If they decide to try, it is simply amazing the things a WS will suddenly do and the accusations and marital history rewriting they will suddenly espouse. You need to protect yourself!

It must be incredibly hard for you to focus at work during all of this and if possible at all, you should consider taking some time off or reducing your work load. The separation arrangement you currently have sounds very reasonable and you absolutely cannot sacrifice anytime with your children. They need you now as this will be very difficult on them even if it doesn't appear to be. Also, if your WW can demonstrate that she is caring for the children more than you she could be considered the primary caregiver, given exclusive use of your home, and you could be relegated to visits with your children much less than 50/50. In Canada, whichever parent has the children 60% of the time or more is considered the primary caregiver and awarded full child support payments as dictated by the federal guidelines. It does not matter how you ended up S or D whatsoever. You most likely will be ordered to pay spousal support on top of this....and before you realize it you will find yourself paying her a huge amount of money to live in your home with your children, made worse by the fact she could even move the AP in, while you have to find a new place to live and you suddenly find you have far less time with your children than you would like.

It's very hard right now but everything you do is so crucial and you need to take charge....don't wait for her to decide whether the 'grass is greener' on the other side or not. As others have said, and you yourself have indicated you wish to do, inform the other BS what you know and then at least seek legal counsel if not outright start the D process (you can always cancel). Under no circumstances do you let your WW dictate to you any terms. She needs to realize her M is hanging on by a very delicate thread now because of her actions and she should be doing everything possible to salvage it. If she's not willing to, as hard as it will be for you, you must consider your M dead. DO NOT let her rugsweep the A or downplay how serious this is nor attempt to keep this 'private' for her. As many of us can attest to, she will continue in her A or she will eventually have a new one.

Sorry for the long post and for possibly sounding harsh too. I only wish I knew what I know now when I was in your position and if you have any other questions or want to discuss anything privately, please feel free to private message me too. Good luck TorontoGuy....you will get through this.

Please contact the OBS. We all deserve to know the truth of our lives. WS's want to keep us in the dark.

Tell her that you will take her feelings into account, regarding telling, just like she thought about yours when she had an affair!

DO NOT TELL HER ANYTHING! Just do it.

You are a kind and considerate person to want to help another BS know the truth. Not easy to do, but so necessary.

Good luck.

Sending strength.

Oh and for God's sake...don't bring another woman into the equation now as you alluded to in another post. That will just add more problems to your mess by an order of magnitude....which you will certainly regret...and most likely won't be fair to any new partner either. Take the high road here at least for the next few months and sort out your emotions and everything else. For respite, invest in a good 'furry mitten' if you have too

TorontoGuy, Don't like the fact your wife is having an affair? burn it down, Affairs are like vampires, they don't like the daylight, Tell the others man's wife, Don't tell your wife, let her figure out what you're up to just like you had to figure out what she was doing. Your wife is the enemy and you never let the enemy dictate terms

This is exactly what I was told 1 year and 4 months ago when I found out. And he had me cowed...for quite a while. I mean, it almost seemed reasonable that it would be better for us to R if it was 'contained". And things got worse from there. I never did contact her or her bs, I feel I missed my window. Perhaps not - everyone here has not a doubt -- and it makes so much sense. He kept saying "throw away the letter" too, because we were finished if I kept it. What, like evidence?? It took me sooo long to come out of my own fog to see, yes, indeed, evidence. It felt like he was protecting HER because he WAS protecting her. Even today, it's hard to swallow, but they don't get to make up rules to this new game. Tell 'em.

For sure let them know.

My WH's AP was upset I contacted her DH, so I just texted the whole group and said I'd continue to contact him as long as she tried to contact my husband.

The balls on some people.