SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Good for you. You did the right thing. If she's going to back out of R over this, than you never could have saved your M anyway. Really. Better to rip that bandaid off. She is not remorseful yet. You cannot R with an unremorseful WS.

I know you are hurting and second guessing yourself, but you took back a piece of your dignity just now. Good for you.

PBST2

You are getting the same advice that you got when this originally happened. You are getting some better behavior at home but she is manipulating you with that and continuing to do everything possible to keep her affair alive at work. it is outrageous that this far out she is buying her AP presents, flirting with him, and making sure he knows she is still thinking about him. and my guess is that e mail at work that you cannot see would contain more of the same, although after this she probably immediately erased it.

Her still working in CLOSE proximity to a man she was banging weekly or more for at least a half a year made the odds of a successful R much less likely. Everyone posting to you here knows that and unfortunately you are now again learning the hard way.

SHE IS STILL MENTALLY IN THIS AFFAIR, and you have to admit that and that she is determined to keep it going until the coast is clear. the OM apparently did NOT get his life blown up to the point where he is scared of anything because he is still receptive. if he was scared shitless of consequences from his wife he would have refused the cookie and told her to leave him alone.

When she stormed out of the house i am betting that they have a burner phone or some other way of communicating and I will guarantee you she leans on his shoulder tomorrow.

DO YOU WANT TO LIVE WITH THIS GUY ALWAYS RIGHT THERE FOR YOUR WIFE. well, as long as she stays in that job that is your future.

i would tell the other wife that they are again having inappropriate contact whether or not the other wife cares or not. i wold do this just to show your wife that you are not going to stand for this no matter how mad she gets. And your next step has to be the HR department. They will put a stop to this especially if you can provide evidence.

The advice on this post is the same as before. This time you need to hold firm on where you were the last time, and i am hoping you know it was a bad decision to give in on the job.

SHE NEEDS TO EITHER HAVE THE JOB AND HER BOYFRIEND OR YOU!!! unfortunately, i think you are going to have to accept her choice is going to be the job. That should tell you where you stand. you gave her a chance that you should not have and her response was to keep showing her affection for the OM.

You have put up with this 'fog" shit long enough.

I am also advising you that this book reading shit is meaningless. If she really wanted to help you m you would not have to be co-ercing her to read books. you are wasting your time with her present state of mind. her reaction to this shows that.

If my husband had bought the AP a freaking cookie after dday!!

Look, she isn't NC. She is still actively in the affair. I am so sorry - do what you have to do, but you can't live like this. It isn't fair to you.

[This message edited by bionicgal at 5:58 PM, August 6th (Wednesday)]

I agree you should update the OM's wife asap on these interactions. Maybe if he starts to feel some pain, it will loosen his hold on your wife.

I'd also invest in a VAR and put it in her car.

When she stormed out of the house i am betting that they have a burner phone or some other way of communicating and I will guarantee you she leans on his shoulder tomorrow.

If not right now.

They are still affair partners and only he, the OM can understand poor little me. APs are like partners in crime. I saw this too many times.

If there ever was a time to watch her electronics, it is now. Also watch your joint bank accounts.

Also:

Maybe if he starts to feel some pain, it will loosen his hold on your wife.

And throw her under the bus to save his own butt. The you will see how fast your wife turns off that light switch.

If her job is her "livelihood", then she doesn't need any of YOUR "livelihood".

Divide up any funds in joint accounts. Leave half of it for her, and take out the other half and put it into accounts in only YOUR name.

From now on, have your paycheck deposited in YOUR name only.

And, then DEMAND that she pays HALF of everything from now on. Whatever. Electric, gas, mortgage, taxes, you name it, she pays half.

Only give anything back if a judge orders it.

I have no sympathy for people who cheat after having VOWED before God and witnesses that they WON'T.

I figure, if someone can stand before God and make this kind of a vow, then putting an AP out of their mind ought to happen within MILLISECONDS.

And, I don't have any desire to be married to a person who can see, first hand, what their affair did to me physically and emotionally, yet be so indifferent to my welfare as to continue it.

And throw her under the bus to save his own butt. The you will see how fast your wife turns off that light switch.

Yep. And "good old plan B" will get executed quite promptly. The only problem with this, is that you will recognize, through this, that you ARE "plan B". And this recognition will have no plausible explanation, other than "I am plan B".

[This message edited by tfkeel at 6:22 PM, August 6th (Wednesday)]

- She shared with him a personal fitness accomplishment that she's proud of.

- She told him she found a silly self-deprecating greeting card that would be appropriate for him to give to her.

- She brought him back his favorite kind of cookie when she went out for lunch one day.

- There was a silly exchange between them in which I believe she hinted at sexual innuendo, and his response indicated that he was biting his tongue because he knew better than to go there

Holy freakin' crap!

That...constitutes "a really good job of not communicating with him"???

She lied about their interactions.

She has gone out of her way to interact with OM.

She brought him his favorite cookie??? That's an immature move you'd expect to see done out of some school girl crush.

It's all about trying to stay connected to OM and continuing to seek his validation and attention.

A remorseful WS wouldn't be doing that. A WS who is aware of the pain they caused wouldn't be doing this and certainly would be defensive about it.

But her rationalization is that whether he is there or not, she will definitely be able to get over him.

You know what this means? It's still all about her. Her getting over him. Funny how your pain, your betrayal doesn't factor into it at all. This so-called R is still about accommodating her.

It seems like the answer is staring me in the face, but I'm afraid of upsetting the apple cart as we try to repair our marriage.

Upsetting the apple cart? You're afraid of doing that? Shouldn't she have been concerned about that with her actions?

You know this is wrong. Not a little bit wrong. A lot wrong. You know one symptom of a pending heart attack is a pain in the left arm. Many people ignore the symptom because it "isn't that bad". They wait for the full on heart attack before trying to treat it. By then it's often too late.

These exchanges between your WW and OM are that symptom. Unchecked it will be fatal. It will turn on you and the M. If your WW doesn't take it seriously then that will tell you how seriously she does (or does not) take R. That will be her choice. You will not have "pushed her away". She will have decided.

WW came home with the kids after a long walk. The kids are sleeping now in their beds, and WW is still here, but I think she might leave. She again asked me to leave. Unfortunately tomorrow is her birthday so if she leaves she won't see the kids on the morning of her birthday, which is really upsetting to her. She thinks the nice thing for me to do would be to leave to allow her that opportunity, but I held firm that I'm not going anywhere. I said I could sleep in the guest room.

We talked/yelled at each other for a few minutes after the kids were sleeping. Her frame of mind hasn't changed. She keeps repeating "all this over a fucking cookie!". "Nothing is going on between us!" "You are delusional!" "You are lying to me about where you're getting your information" "I have nothing to say to you right now" "I can't believe you're doing this on my birthday" "I've been trying so hard and nothing is good enough for you".

I tried to explain to her that cookie signifies she is still thinking about him and doing things that will make him think of her. She just repeated: "it's a fucking cookie! nothing is going on". I told her I believe her that nothing physical is going on, but that she is disrespecting me by continuing to be his friend and interacting with him in ways that are not necessary for business. I keep reminding her that the NC agreement was for business only. She keeps trying to minimize everything else, that it's just a "cordial" relationship between coworkers.

I'm not sure what's going to happen next. My guess is she is going to continue being pissed at ME for everything and refuse to consider why her actions might be so upsetting and hurtful to me. Complicating matters is that her birthday is tomorrow (WTF do I write on her card now? Do I even give her one? If I don't how will she react?), and in a week and a half we're supposed to take a long trip to go to a wedding and a beach vacation as a family. All of that is up in the air now.

[This message edited by PBST2 at 8:13 PM, August 6th (Wednesday)]

"Nothing is going on between us

That is BS and she is the delusional one.

Why didn't she bring you the cookie instead? Ask her that.

Don't leave your own house!

Tell her enough is enough of her thinking and flirting with this guy.

Write what you want on the card, I would keep it civil and maybe even nice. No point for you to turn uncivil yet.

Interesting though, you sure have her wondering where you are getting your info, make sure she keeps on wondering.

Can you check her phone now to see if she contacted the OM on her walk.

This is absolutely not over a cookie and you know that and so does she. It is about her flirting and continuing her connection with the other man. People of opposite sex work together everywhere without buying stuff for each other or talking about card she thinks is appropriate for them.

She is losses you caught her. Do you understand that. Just like she was pissed when you contacted the OM wife. Do you remember that???

Her interaction with her fuck buddy cannot be like good friends. He is not your friend, and your wife still wants him to want her.

She wants the comfort of you and her house and family and the connection to her boyfriend to remain. Those are her terms for R. She has lied to you and you know that so please stop letting her talk about cookies. This is more than that.

You are at the point now where you either accept that she is going to do what she wants or you get her out of that job.

Last alternative is for you to suck it up and cave again. The fact is you are still an emotional mess says to me that is not a great option because it will not end well for you. Don't be in denial. He is more important to her right now

She should be telling you she will spit in his face if you want her to. She wants to be friends with her fuck buddy. I keep using that term because I don't want you to forget what this is all about

[This message edited by Badhurt at 8:24 PM, August 6th (Wednesday)]

You are being held hostage by a terrorist who intends to pocket the ransom money and shoot you anyway.

Your WW is still in her A. It may have escaped your notice at the time, but she gave herself away during one of the exchanges you had with her.

She's bullying you and you are playing right into her hands.

180 this woman...now, and hard.

It seems like the answer is staring me in the face, but I'm afraid of upsetting the apple cart as we try to repair our marriage.

She drove a tank over the cart and splattered the apples all over the fucking place, you're worried about pissing her off asking her to help clean that shit up.

You're placing yourself at different standards because you're currently willing to accept abuse to stay near her. This is a choose your own adventure that only has two endings - the one where you get more sick of her shit than you are worried about not having her in your life, and the one where you accept abuse indefinitely as it escalates, even to the point where she doesn't need to gaslight you anymore.

Well there are more than two and there are all theses subsets of them both anyway, and the one with the Dinosaurs and Archeopteryx was more fun but we were working with metaphors so.. metaphor.

*Not Just Friends* is an awesome tool for those who wish to reconcile. Unfortunately, it also provides a roadmap to guide an unsuspecting BS down the proverbial primrose path. I don't think you will ever be able to truly appreciate just how lucky you were to find out she was lying to you!

Honestly, you NEED a lawyer and fast. I would guess she's been talking with one herself.

You have to up the ante and bet everything now. Sometimes WS needs to see that you really mean business and start D. She can either see the light or not. You should be prepared to D while hoping for R.

Do not cave. If she were truly remorseful she would be reassuring you and helping you. Not having a meltdown. She is bluffing to get you to back down, so she can continue her friendship. Don't play that game with her. She owns this, not you.

Do NOT defend yourself. She is the one who needs to examine her actions and her responses to your concerns. She isn't keeping it as business only, and she knows it. She is trying to wiggle out of this. If she wants to leave you must let her. She expects you to give in, to be afraid so she can get her way. Surprise....you don't want to be a doormat. Also good for you not leaving. This is her mess, if she leaves let her figure out where to go, how to pay for it, how to visit the kids or how to provide for them if she tries to take them. These are all things she should deal with if she wants to leave....over "just a cookie". Sheesh, she really doesn't get it.

Your wife is acting how a child acts when they do not get their way. Logically, of course, you are right, but she wants what she wants.

Tell her it's not about the "fucking cookie," it's about the three "fucking lies" attached to it:

"Fucking lie" #1: She told you she would not have any non-business-related contact with other man; she is/

"Fucking lie" #2: She told you she would tell you whenever she has any non-business-related contact. She hasn't.

"Fucking lie" #3: When you asked her about it, she "fucking" denied, denied, denied it.

So tell her, no, it's not about the "fucking cookie," it's about you fucking another man, and it's about your continued "fucking lies."

After I caught my wife cheating, I monitored her communications for a short while, maybe a couple of weeks. Exhausting. And I found nothing. My wife is an intelligent woman, if she wanted to hide communications, I'm sure she could find a way. I was not afraid of losing my marriage. I didn't want to lose it, but I did not fear it. And I didn't look at the cheating as the worst thing that had ever happened to me, because it wasn't, by far.

I didn't want to control my wife after the affair. If she wanted to be with other man, if she couldn't get over other man, then I told her she should just go be with other man, I would help her pack, I wouldn't screw her over financially, just go, but no more lies.

So maybe I have a different outlook than some here.

I'm reconciled with my wife. I have all her passwords, always did. When anything raises my suspicion, which is rare these days, I check it out, and there's never anything there. But to do it everyday, like you are, to have these constant battles with her while she feigns ignorance about what the real issue is - and that's all she's doing man, just feigning ignorance, I think what they refer to here as "gaslighting" you, trying to make you think you're crazy when you're not, believe me you're not - no, I couldn't live that way.

You can't control your wife's actions. You can't make her be an honest, decent person. And you certainly can't control her thoughts. You can only control yourself, and how you react to her actions, and what you are willing to put up with and not put up with in a marriage. The way you describe the things she IS doing for you, I consider "scraps." Leftovers. Not how you treat someone you love, certainly not how you get a person you cheated on to stay with you. I'm sorry, that's how I see it. She is doing the minimum she thinks she needs to do to placate you. Nothing more. I call this "lip service." Say one thing and do another. Say "no, I will not have any contact with other man that's not business related," and then do the opposite.

Words lie. Actions don't.

Tell her if she really believes this is about a cookie, let's see what other people think. Let's post our situation on facebook and let people vote, if a wife has a romantic sexual affair with an affair partner and admits to still having feelings for him and not being over him (1) is it OK to suggest greeting cards with "inside" messages that would be appropriate for the affair partner to buy her? (2) is it OK to go out and buy the affair partner his favorite cookie and give it to him as a small gift? and (3) is it even OK to still continue to work with the affair partner in this situation? If we don't ask on facebook, then let's ask our parents and siblings and friends what they think. We can decide by vote who's viewpoint is crazy.

But really man, why bother? You are putting yourself through hell and it's not getting you anywhere. Is it? You deserve better.

It sounds like you have discussed this to death and are getting nowhere. Time for a strong 180. Don't worry about what to write on her birhtday card, because a birhtday card falls outside the boundaries of kids and finances. She is gaslighing you and trying to find out the source of your information, so she can cut it off. Don't be drawn in to play her game. As pointed out earlier, you can't control her actions, you can only control your own. Time to do that.

So…I just want to make sure I understand everything here.

She has sex with a co-worker and now its ok for them to be friends. Interesting. My H thought the same thing. Instead of the “cookie” he was bringing her ice tea.

Let me tell you very emphatically – as long as they work together this is going to be your life. Finding “innocent” emails, bits of broken NC that she’ll have an explanation for and oh so much more. I lived it for TWO AND HALF YEARS until my H finally found another job. He was talking to her on the phone right up until the day he left his job.

But I wouldn’t listen to everyone here – how could he leave his job? We’d been married 37 yrs – he was the major breadwinner even though I also work. I was scared – what would we do. And besides, my H was different – he’d be able to work with her and maintain appropriate boundaries.

Guess what? They never met after work hours once the affair was discovered but seeing each other every day kept the affair alive. Didn’t matter how many times I found evidence of emails, etc. Didn’t matter how many times I threw a tantrum – he continued to do what HE wanted to do and I stupidly let it happen.

Oh he did all the same things your wife is doing – promises, giving me passwords, etc., being accountable for his whereabouts. All of that – guess what? Those were easy things to do – talk is cheap. What did DO? He continued to lie and get defensive. The best offense is a good defense. And that’s exactly what your wife is doing. He couldn’t do anything I needed – it was always all about HIM.

I finally reached the end of my rope and I guess I’m pretty dense because it took too long to get there – but no truer words have ever been spoken “As long as they work together the affair is still alive”

I told him - you quit your job and YOU figure out what we do financially. YOU created this mess – now YOU get to fix it.

I understand not wanting to upset the apple cart – I really do because I did it for too long – constantly trying to understand him – forgiving, moving on – and EACH AND EVERY TIME he would break NC and tell more lies.

Please – stand your ground. You won’t be in REAL reconciliation until one of them leaves the job.

Please – don’t be me in two years – writing to someone about workplace affairs because that’s exactly what you’ll be if YOU continue to put up with this. Yes sir, this will be your life.