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Early on he offered to take a lie detector test, he suggested it, which surprised me but I think he offered knowing I wouldn't take him up on it, so it makes him look honest.

But wait - he ALSO claimed that if you love him, you'll just believe any bullshit he spews about his supposed innocence. So he's contradicting himself.

Book the poly. After all, if he's being so 'honest' with you, then he'll JUMP at the chance to finally get to prove to you once and for all that he's telling the truth!

....right?

Don't be surprised when you tell him you're going to book a polygraph test and he suddenly hems and haws, telling you that he just can't BELIEVE you'd subject him to something like that when he'd never lie to you. Oh, or he'll use the other tack some of them use - that if it's come to THIS, the marriage is pretty much over. That one is designed to make you panic and cancel the test rather than cross the 'line' and risk losing him. Yeah, cheaters think they're quite the gift to lose, don't they?

I can see right through this guy.

Boy, cheaters are NOTHING if not predictable.

I can hardly believe this. OH MY GOD.

I just now found out THAT DEAD GIRLFRIEND ISN'T DEAD AND SHE WASN'T HIS GF. I'm in shock again. I was looking through a drawer this morning and he had an old wallet he no longer uses, and there was a business card from someone with the same first name as the "dead girlfriend". I Googled and put the pieces together, it all fits completely from what he told me about her, what she does, what college degree she has, where she's from, her brother, father, etc.

SO.... I called her. She was nice and she remembered my husband - and said all she did was have coffee with him and then went to a Halloween party with him - back on 2007 or so. Then she said she decided he was too creepy - he told her he had just gotten divorced (he divorced in 1996), and that his child had just died (thought it was 30+ years ago) and was depressed - and she never saw him again and made a point to avoid where he worked so she wouldn't see him.

Ok, for one thing, he wasn't "just" divorced in 2007, and his kid who died was over 30 years ago when the child was 17 months old. That is, if that's a true story either.

She mentioned the video he took of her on his phone and then got converted to VHS. THAT is the VHS tape he carries around. It was 16 seconds of footage from that Halloween party. She said he had got it transferred to VHS tape from his phone at CVS. That's incredibly weird too. He went to the trouble to transfer a 16 second video from a party with a girl he only saw twice - and then made up an elaborate story that she got cancer and died?! That's the tape he asked me if I wanted to watch, and I declined. Maybe I will ask to watch it.

He's always said that he kept making trips back to Chicago when she was sick, and racked up a big credit card bill from those airplane trips back in 2007. Lies. He said they were together for 2 or 3 years. Lies. That she had cancer. Lies. That she died. Lies. Maybe the dead 17 month old child is a lie too?

This is really sick. Why would someone make up such an elaborate story, cancer, etc. that wasn't true???? What is he really hiding??

OH MY GOD.

She obviously is not dead, and certainly not from breast cancer. She had nothing good to say about him, she said she avoided where he worked so she wouldn't have to see him. She referred to him as a stalker and creepy.

I want to confront him and tell him I know she is very much ALIVE and the whole story is a total lie. BUT I'm worried - he's not of his right mind. There is something seriously wrong here with him mentally.

He told me a few weeks ago when he was trying to show me how horrible his mom is/was (and somehow that was a reason why he's so depressed and visits escorts now?) that his mom would take his sister in a room and strip his sister naked to give her a spanking with a belt. I wonder if HE was sexually abused in this way, or worse? Only a thought. I'm trying to make sense of all this.

Should I tell him I know about the Dead GF? I wonder what lies he'd make up to cover this one.

I'm in shock yet again.

I think you really need to see the VHS tape. The 16 seconds of video from his phone is probably on there, but I suspect there's a LOT more.

If he knows about getting phone videos onto a VHS, do you think there might be other videos originally from his phone on there? The fact that he brings this with him places tells me it is hugely significant to him - and we know that's NOT because his x-girlfriend who is on it died.

Make sure when you tell him you want to see it, that there is ample opportunity to see it immediately. No chance for him to lose it, break it, erase it. Just calmly tell him you actually do want to see the tape and it has to be right now.

Also, I really, really like the idea of putting a voice activated recorder in his car.

This is pretty scary stuff you're dealing with and I'm so sorry!

I think you've got a bit more investigation to do before you tell him what you know about the non-dead "xgf."

Shock and awe.

Get your ducks in a row first as much as you can.

Ohhhmygahhh..

Tell him to take a long walk off of a short pier if he is gonna hand you those lies and excuses...

If nothing else, you have to trust that your gut is right on..

Oh dear, WIS. I'm sure your head is spinning with this new discovery. I can't IMAGINE discovering that this "dead GF" was never his real GF, and that she's NOT dead!

Honey, your H has some very serious issues. I think you know that. And, the more you dig, the more you are going to discover that the man you thought you married simply does not exist. I am so terribly sorry.

I remember (after D-day), just wanting my former life back. I just wanted to slip back into the comfort that I knew, rather than the reality I had discovered. It is a very hard pill to swallow to realize that the person you have shared your life with was simply a mirage - a carefully contrived persona that was presented to you as real. Discovering the depth of that person's deception is crushing. It was for me, and I suspect it will be for you.

Don't be surprised when you tell him you're going to book a polygraph test and he suddenly hems and haws, telling you that he just can't BELIEVE you'd subject him to something like that when he'd never lie to you. Oh, or he'll use the other tack some of them use - that if it's come to THIS, the marriage is pretty much over. That one is designed to make you panic and cancel the test rather than cross the 'line' and risk losing him. Yeah, cheaters think they're quite the gift to lose, don't they?

^^^Pay attention to NeverAgain2013 with this^^^ That is EXACTLY what will happen. When a cheater is confronted with the truth finally coming out, they will DENY, DEFEND, AND DEFLECT. This is all designed to make YOU defensive and fearful so you will just quit digging.

Honey, you know the truth - well, at least some of it. And, armed with what you know - is this the type of life partner you want? I know you don't want "this" guy. You want the familiarity of the marriage you thought you had. It's a protective mechanism that we've all felt when we can't wrap our heart and heads around the things we have uncovered.

Please keep posting and let us know how you're doing.

Yes Too_Trusting, I think that's exactly it - I want my old life with him back and it's taking me time to realize that old life will never return. Everything is different now, it's all been changed forever. I can't believe what is happening. I want what I THOUGHT was reality back again. I know I'll never have it again. My only hope now is that things can be better than before, with honesty and trust, but I'm not delusional, I know that the odds of that are slim to none - because of the way he is. I'm willing to try for it, before I call the marriage quits, but he has to be serious about it too. The question is whether he can be honest, he may not be able to. He's a compulsive liar, with some narcissism and/or sociopath in him too.

I asked last night about the VHS tape, and he said it's in his locker at work. I asked him to bring it home tonight, that I want to see it. If he doesn't bring it home I'm going to suggest we both take a walk up to his work (5 blocks away) and get it. I also want to see what's in his locker. I have a feeling he won't allow this to happen, I have a feeling there are secrets in his locker at work, just as there are secrets hidden in his car.

Either way, I feel compelled to tell him I know the truth about the DeadGF tonight and see what he says, or rather what cover-up lies he spews. He can't say she is lying about being dead (that's almost funny). I don't want to play this game, he needs to know that I KNOW. The jig is up.

I'm slowly getting over the idea of caring what he thinks. I have to look out for myself and let him know I know the truth and won't tolerate more lies, secrets, and coverups.

As part of this deal I also want a full accounting of each paycheck every 2 weeks. I want the paystub and to get receipts on everything he spends his money on. He should have $1000 a month surplus, and he doesn't.

Considering this HUGE lie (total weird FABRICATION) of the DeadGF, it seems obvious that he would have no problem lying about the escorts too.

He has to agree to get regular serious psychiatric help or we won't be staying together.

I'm nervous about confronting him tonight, but I know what I know and it can't just slide and I refuse to play games. I hope he doesn't throw another 4 hour hissy fit, but I'm prepared if he does this time. Or if he gets angry, I realize the anger is a defense mechanism, but still it all makes me nervous and scared. I don't like conflict, but HE created this mess not me, so he has to face the music, like it or not. At least that's what I'm telling myself to try to be strong.

Wow. Having read all your posts and this new info about the dead girlfriend...my advice is to divorce this guy and RUN.

He sounds like he is not all there and has some serious issues.

It sounds like you never REALLY knew this man. Never knew the REAL him.

[This message edited by Audrina at 8:25 AM, April 19th (Sunday)]

WIS, it sounds like you are formulating some plans, and that is good. Did you confront him, and if so, how did that go???

You have been hit with a LOT to digest. My exH was also diagnosed as NPD (after D-day). It is very difficult to deal with a narcissist, because they feel that the normal rules of society don't apply to them. I'm glad that you are insisting that he seek psychiatric help.

Check in and let us know how the confrontation went.

Womaninshock - bumping to see how you are?

Worried about you WIS.

Are you OK?

Sending you strength.

Thank you Too_Trusting and MadOldBat for caring about me, you are so very kind.

Well...

Last night I carefully and delicately told him I knew his "Dead GF" was not dead. He first response was "she's dead to me". So he goes from being distraught and in mourning over someone who was "dead" to being angry at this person.

She's dead to him? After just 2 dates 8 years ago he creates this huge story around her? A few months ago he referred to her as having been his "fiance". They met up twice. Once for coffee and once to go to a Halloween party.

He freaked out. His world was turned upside down last night. I knew this was a possibility, but proceeded anyway because I knew I couldn't live my life knowing the truth and him not knowing that I know. It just wasn't possible for me. When he was crying during one of our talks about the escorts weeks ago, he said "you don't know what it's like to have someone die in your arms". I knew I couldn't stand him saying those kinds of things, using THAT as some valid reason for anything he wants to do, knowing that it was false. He had to stop that act. But it turned his world upside down.

He is angry and freaked out that I invaded his privacy, that I looked through his things. He asked how I found out, and I told him I saw her business card, and he responded by saying he was going to burn all his stuff. This morning he emptied the nightstand drawers into plastic bags and took them with him to work. I know everything that was in that nightstand, so it's pointless, but I said nothing.

It seems like he's withdrawing further, I have the feeling he's going to be less forthcoming, more withdrawn. He feels like I'm the "gestapo". I told him he could look through any of my things, and he said he has no interest in that, that's not him (to snoop). I told him I'd tell him about anything from my past, but he said he doesn't care about my past, or to look at any of my stuff. I told him we have to be an open book with each other, he disagreed. He says his past is his private business.

He paced around the house for a couple hours last night, and just kept saying "I can't believe this" over and over. He realized at one point that I actually TALKED to her, and he FLIPPED OUT and kept saying "why would you do that? why would you call a stranger? I can't believe you TALKED to her! why would you do that??".

This kept going from 7:30 to 1 am.

I do feel bad. I feel like I DID snoop too much, I did get in his business too much, I did look through his things. But extreme actions on my part were due to extreme lies and fear. I explained that when he started calling escorts I was afraid for my health, and my life, and needed answers. I needed the TRUTH.

So, yes, I called her. Did I do wrong? Should I not have done that? Would you have done that? Should I not have told him?

I can't live with these HUGE fabrications. So I did what I felt was best.

He still said and says he loves me, but he's a total MESS. This whole thing is a mess.

We have to go to therapy, but he keeps saying he wants to go forward and not talk about the past. How can we resolve anything if we can't talk about all this? What would we say to the therapist? Would there be any point to it?

HE needs to see a psychiatrist. There is something so seriously not right. He would have to come 100% clean to any therapist for it to do any good I think. He will just lie to the therapist.

He is paranoid that I've told friends. So I'm made to feel that I can't tell anyone, or at least anyone we both know. If I can't talk about this I'll explode.

He also admitted there was no "Dead Child" either. He said it was his now 30 year old son who had a milk allergy (but survived). So he made that up too.

These 2 "deaths" in his life was his essence, it was him. I'd see something on TV about cancer and would think about how sad it was that he lost her that way, or I'd see Chicago and think of him suffering and in such torment there while she lay dying and wonder what those last moments were like for him. I'd see something about a child dying and think of his dead child, and on and on.

Now, I find out that's not him. Those were made up. So who is he really?

I wonder if there is a "real story" somewhere. What is he REALLY hiding? My gut feeling tells me there is a lot more to this story. What would motivate someone to make these things up? He wanted sympathy, for sure, but why?

This morning he brought up his calls to escorts: "about those calls, I would call and they asked me 'what do you want' and I'd say 'I don't know'". So... he made 35 phone calls specifically to TS's just to tell them he didn't know what he wanted?

I'm pretty much bewildered at this point.

So many issues wrapped up in one little man.

Are you packing his shit up in hefty bags yet?

Is there really anything worth saving here? From this side of the fence I'm not seeing anything.

Sorry if that was a 2x4.

I don't think you're getting the whole story, or that he didn't actually meet any of those prostitutes. What you describe in the phone records with him calling a number, then sometime later calling the same number briefly, is what is known as a "two call" system internet escorts use. The customer calls once to set up the date and maybe gets an address where he has to be buzzed in, or is given an address close to where the prostitute works. The customer then calls again when he is at the location and is either given a final, specific location or is buzzed in. That's why the second or third calls are so brief. It helps the prostitutes screen for police and also weeds out the flakes.

And just to be clear, I'm not speaking from personal experience. I have friends in law enforcement.

He is a liar and a manipulator. He uses your emotions to twist you up. Why on earth would he lie about deaths otherwise?

Don't start getting worried about snooping now! No matter what he says, you have a right to know. This is YOUR life too and he is playing fast and loose with your health.

BTW, have you had an STD check? Because that is paramount if he is using services of any kind.

This man has lied to you about who he is from the beginning (dead child, dead fiancee, etc) and even now he doesn't want to change that.

Work on you. 180 and find your strength. Decide how much work you think he is capable of putting forward towards R. At this point based on what you've said, he isn't even facing the truth of his own actions.

Where to start, after reading this thread?

Wow.

I wonder if there's a chemical imbalance suddenly being brought about. Or a tumor. Seriously.

Professional work is needed.

Good luck.

He sounds 'not all there',please RUN. ((()))

Hi WIS, I have some rather strong opinions on liars, as my H is a compulsive liar.

His accusations of "snooping" are a distraction from the issue at hand. Please know that anyone in your situation would snoop, perhaps even more thoroughly than you did. His protestations are a smokescreen to avoid his being held accountable for his enormous lies.

At various times during the 20+ years I have known my H, I have seen him tell lies. He ENJOYED it. It gave him a thrill. He concocted huge, elaborate tales and seemed to get a cruel satisfaction from being believed. I have seen it and have lived through the destruction it brings.

Many years ago, I insisted that he seek IC about his lying. He went once or twice, the guy told him to be brutally honest in all his interactions. Then he stopped going. He always thought he had me snowed, but usually I knew when he was telling a lie. I chose my battles.

We have to go to therapy

I would amend that statement to HE has to go to therapy. Then again, sadly,

He would have to come 100% clean to any therapist for it to do any good I think. He will just lie to the therapist.

Probably ^^^ this is true. My H saw an IC during the EA with OW before it turned PA, and I am sure he lied about what he was saying to OW. He did tell IC that OW was a point of contention for us, but that he "never" discussed our M or anything personal.... not true.

If I were you, I would do my level best to focus on yourself. You know he is all kinds of messed up, you cannot fix him, he needs to WANT to fix himself. He is not safe for you. I hope you can put the 180 into high gear and figure out what is best for you.

Please take good care.

E.

This man has lied to you about who he is from the beginning (dead child, dead fiancee, etc) and even now he doesn't want to change that.

Work on you. 180 and find your strength. Decide how much work you think he is capable of putting forward towards R. At this point based on what you've said, he isn't even facing the truth of his own actions.

I have to agree with brokenblackbird^^^. Let this sink in, WIS - he has lied to you about who he is from the beginning. He needs a LOT of therapy. LOTS. Even then, I'm not satisfied that he can make any real progress toward finding his "authentic self" because he is so invested in the fantasies for whatever reason. He's been spewing them for so long, I think he actually may believe them.

Some of his behavior is just bizarre - like emptying his nightstand drawers and taking the contents with him to work. Whether there is anything else hidden in those contents, that behavior alone is saying "do not delve any further into my privacy". Honestly, if you continue digging, I'm actually afraid of what else you may discover.

I agree with the others that say you need to focus on YOU and decide what you want in your life. Clearly, this man does not want a relationship built on honesty and trust. He has fabricated a completely different persona as your H, while living multiple secret lives.

Unless and until HE wants to be a truthful person and commit to living a transparent life, there isn't much hope for meaningful change.

And, Edith is right about this:

His accusations of "snooping" are a distraction from the issue at hand. Please know that anyone in your situation would snoop, perhaps even more thoroughly than you did. His protestations are a smokescreen to avoid his being held accountable for his enormous lies.

I told you that cheaters, when confronted, will DENY, DEFEND, AND DEFLECT. Him coming unglued is all designed to get you to back off. And, when he says he doesn't want to talk about the past, how in the hell are you supposed to rebuild your trust and relationship?

I've said from the beginning that he has done more than just talk to these TS prostitutes. And, don't buy the nonsense that he said he "didn't know" what he wanted. I think you know, deep in your heart, that he has been physical with these TS escorts, but there is only so much that a person can absorb and accept without going crazy themselves. It is your own psychological coping mechanism that protects you from allowing all of this to sink in (and sink YOU) at once.

Keep posting and let us help you. You are walking a road that others here have also walked. Our infidelity partner may be different, but we can spot BS when we hear it, and we can help you get through this.

Huge hugs....

Have you seen the VHS tape yet?

I doubt you ever will. I won't believe a thing out of his mouth until he shows you that tape. Not only that, if there's nothing of importance on it, I'd believe he erased it.

No, really, how could you ever believe anything he says? Ever?