SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

A couple things to explain more fully to see how they factor in:

>She makes more money then me, financially we are in so deep that if we are apart our only real option would be bankruptcy I think...not sure but it would be very tough for either of us to be on our own.

I'll assume that what you say is true regarding finances. If so then bankruptcy is your best course of action anyway. You should be in "all-out saving for retirement" mode and carrying all the debt is going to sink you. No value judgements as to how you got here but remember that Congress has given us all the chance to rebuild our financial life - I urge you to take advantage of this. The plan that the bankruptcy trustee sets up for you basically stops interest accrual so you'll end up paying 75% of what you owe right now so don't feel like your "getting away" with something.

>My 18y/o son is still in the house, he just turned 18 and won't graduate till next year (he was held back a year in elementary school).

He will be fine with this as long as you are open and honest with him about the whole thing. Be a good father and this will not be a problem.

>I do use a VAR when I talk to her, she has claimed in the past that I talk down to her or treat her like one of the kids and not as an equal partner. These types of discussions usually center around money but she is very defensive.

This is for your protection only in the event she gets pissed and accuses you of domestic violence. You shouldn't be playing back what she says to support any of your points. Just ignore that bullshit.

>For sometime, we have used Facetime, especially to communicate with our daughter who lives 500 miles away. When I try to do that with my wife, she says it is spying or not trusting her...this seems to be just a deflection right?

Be strong and ignore this kind of bullshit. You have bigger issues to deal with right now.

>I am not exactly sure how to get in touch with the other guys wife, I know about where they live but not the address. How is it best to find her? (related to his wife, my wife and this guys wife have been good friends for about 2 years. My wife was even present when their new baby was born).

If you want to expose them - and I think you should - you will find a way.

You are in no way as helpless as you portray yourself to be in this post. I think that you are simply stunned and in a state of emotional shock. You need someone to help you get your life right-side up again. We can help but you should find a counselor who can help you sort through all of this shit.

Google the term 'cuckold'. That is your relationship right now. You seem iffy on accepting it, but too weak-willed to end it.

It ends whenever you want, basically.

But again, not sure it can be consider infidelity at this point. I'm iffy on if this is infidelity or just straight up a cuckold relationship.

If you don't want to be a cuck, then you have to end it. Either she ends the affair, or your end the marriage.

Otherwise - make peace with what you are, I guess.

I agree with House and the Drifter. Crushed also makes some good points.

My wife was even present when their new baby was born

So not only is she a horrible wife but a horrible friend as well.

She's sleeping with her friends husband and they just had a baby and she's in the delivery room...WOW.

Again, thanks so much for all the information.

I did speak with an attorney (we are in Calif).

>He said I should consider mediation prior to divorce just in case she really wants out bad enough to just get away....I don't think that is the case but the attorney said the divorce court will ask if we have done it.

>He cautioned on recording her without her knowledge then trying to use the recording in court. He said depending on the way the judge looks at it, I could get slapped really hard for violating her rights.....UGH!

>He also cautioned on outing her in public or at work. While he understood wanting to make her feel the pain, she could say I was causing "undo grief". He also cautioned on doing anything that would maybe cause her to be fired, I would then be on the hook for support given how long we have been married. He did say since she earns more, there is a chance she would have to pay be support but it would be limited and short term.

>He said basically all the debt we have since we got together is "ours" together, regardless of whose name is on the card. He feels that BK is the best option here. I have an old card zero balance card that he said I can keep out of it and hopefully it survives the process. He also recommended I file it ahead of her so she has to deal with the calls, etc.

He cautioned on recording her without her knowledge then trying to use the recording in court. He said depending on the way the judge looks at it, I could get slapped really hard for violating her rights

Use the VAR...

You will not be using it against HER in court at all, if needed you will be using it to protect yourself against false claims.

just proceed and finish it. You are doing better right now

Your lawyer gave you two questionable pieces of advice. Your Zero balance card has about a zero chance of making it through. Years ago maybe, but there are now central databases that will almost certainly give the card issuer notice and cause cancellation even though they are not listed and notified by the court. The other is the VAR. Unless you live in one of the 2 party consent states, use the VAR. The "judge might not like it" shit is just that, chicken shit. Then judge would almost certainly be more moved by the lies or abuse on the recordings.

This is from a retied lawyer with much experience.

listen to Crisp

Could the coworker who gave you evidence help you find out how to get in touch with the wife?

Listen to your lawyer and do everything he says. He's the only person in your corner right now and he's been through this kind of shit with dozen's of men just like you.

I hope you can find a counselor to work with as well. He/she would be another experienced person in your corner and you will need all the help you can get. The best thing you can do right now is focus on the divorce and get it done as fast as you can. Ending all contact with her will help you heal faster than anything else - guaranteed.

Could the coworker who gave you evidence help you find out how to get in touch with the wife?

mharris: this is a great idea!

[This message edited by theDrifter at 1:36 PM, March 18th (Friday)]

You are doing great

Your lawyer’s advice is very sound. Follow it. They may have misunderstood why you are using the VAR. You only reveal it if your wife accuses you of domestic abuse. Then you use it to defend yourself.

Also,

He did say since she earns more, there is a chance she would have to pay be support but it would be limited and short term.

Imlost499624

My understanding is that if you have been married for 10 or more years then alimony is essentially lifetime in California.

[This message edited by Graywolf at 3:21 PM, March 18th (Friday)]

My understanding is that if you have been married for 10 or more years then alimony is essentially lifetime in California.

Nope. It's a "long term marriage" which will extend alimony but the alimony recipient has a duty to become self sufficient. There are exceptions for the elderly and other special circumstances.

Update:

My wife beat me to the "confrontation" Friday. I came home to confront her and before I could get into it with her, she said we needed to talk. She put out on the table just about everything I had learned from other sources openly without me needing to even ask or say much/ask many questions.

She says the relationship with the other guy is not sexual and they don't have intimate times....she says this is all about emotional stuff.

I feel cheating emotionally is still cheating....she admits some level of feelings for the guy but says she really wants me to be more supportive and us to be together.

I am more lost now then I was befor :(

ImLost,

I got the same line that it wasn't a PA, just an EA. (was bullshit anyway) but an EA hurts just as much. an affair is an affair.

If she has "Feelings" for the other guy, what does that mean, is she still allowed to see him and carry on her A, because its not sexual?

If she wants to work at your marriage, you need to demand NC, expose him to OBS, and only then can you start to move forward.

Good luck

She put out on the table just about everything I had learned from other sources

So she figured out what information you had access to and owned up to that. This really isn't that much of a surprise. She knows that you caught her on her iPad. She knows you are aware of the other guy. All she did was figure out what she had to admit to in order to get you to back off.

She says the relationship with the other guy is not sexual and they don't have intimate times....she says this is all about emotional stuff.

Even if this is true, this is an EA (emotional affair). It is still cheating. It is every bit as devastating as a PA (physical affair).

Given her distance from you over the past several months, information from friends, a knowledge that the affair has been going on for 15 months and the fact that she couldn't wait to get in contact with him after returning from a nice cruise with you, things don't add up. EAs become PAs given enough time. They've had more than enough time for it to become physical. In addition, you don't get the "I don't love you anymore" speech from your wife unless she is very serious about the other man. You can bet with about 99% certainty that the affair is well beyond the EA phase and that she is lying to you.

she really wants me to be more supportive and us to be together.

She just blamed you for her affair. YOU weren't supportive enough. YOU need to change. YOU forced her into the arms of the OM. She isn't at fault at all and it was "just" emotional. She regrets that she was caught and that it is throwing a wrench into her ability to continue the affair, but that is it. She isn't remorseful in any way -- she isn't sorry that she hurt you. No, she is blaming you for all of this.

Of course she wants to be together. She has likely done some of her own homework and doesn't want the consequences of losing you. She doesn't want to have to pay alimony. What she wants is to reel you back in and find a way to take the affair underground. She wants to be together with you for financial stability, but still have access to the other man.

Your wife is being extremely manipulative. She sensed that you were detaching and that she was losing her ability to just see the other man uncontested. So she is changing tactics. However, she doesn't get to make the rules anymore. Here are the rules...

1. NC (no contact). She has already proven that she can't do this. Why should you believe that she will now?

2. Honesty. You get all your questions answered. Any time you want. Any number of times you want. She can prove that she is telling the truth. Schedule a polygraph. Don't cancel it no matter what she confesses. She believes that you won't follow through. She will likely try to avoid saying anything until you are in the parking lot. No matter what she does confess to, go through with the test so you know whether she has told you everything or not.

3. Transparency. You get access to everything (phone, computer, social media, etc.). Deleting isn't allowed. Hidden accounts aren't allowed.

4. IC (individual counseling). Her cheating wasn't because you were unsupportive. It is because she has a gap in her character. Something that made her think that cheating was ok. She needs to take responsibility for what she has done, commit herself to finding out how she is broken and then making the required changes to be a safe partner. That is likely months and months (or longer) of work with a good IC.

Your wife is playing a game. Don't fall for it. Follow your attorney's advice. Schedule the polygraph. Once she starts showing real remorse and demonstrating honesty, you can revisit things.

[This message edited by Crushed7 at 11:47 PM, March 20th (Sunday)]

What has happened is that the OM has told her he isn’t leaving his wife because of the young children and she is thinking if she can continue with the A underground he will eventually leave the OBS for her. She knew you were on to her and so she admitted to what you already were aware of. It is vitally important to expose the A to the OBS and allow her to protect herself and her children by helping kill the A. When you expose to the OBS the OM is not going to throw his marriage and 2 little children under the bus … he is going to throw your wife under and then back over her!

She is trying to take control of the situation and throw you off. If it was bad enough for a coworker to email you, then her ass is in the fire at work as well as home, and she knows it. She is in damage control and is trying to control the flow of information, you better realize that.

The chances that this 15 month affair never got physical are near 0%. Especially if they have opportunities to see each other face to face. Remember, cheaters become excellent liars. So don't believe a word she tells you. Watch her actions, they will tell you what you need to know.

Think back to the way she has acted. How angry and defensive she would get when you asked about this guy. How she could not wait to get to him, even after your cruise. Does that sound like she had JUST SOME LEVEL OF FEELINGS FOR THE GUY? She is still lying.

She even has the nerve to tell you she needs support right now? Are you serious? She is trying to lay low and him and her are trying to get control of the narrative. After all they don't want to lose their jobs and reputations, so they are going to dial this back and take it deep underground.

Your right emotional connection to someone other than you spouse is cheating. If you want to be sure what's going on, tell her you appreciate her speaking with you, but your trust has been shaken and you would like her to take a polygraph test. Watch the reaction on her face, it will tell you loads. Tell her you want full access to her phone and computers, see what she tells you. If she throws a fit about these things, then they are still seeing each other.

I know you can't use recordings of her in court, unless you defending a DV charge. But if you want to find out what she is really up to. Hide a VAR in her car and one in her favorite place to be alone and talk in the house. In a short time you will probably here everything. After you have heard what she's up to, and confronted her, you can erase the recording without ever telling her how you found out what you know.

Don't feel lost or confused. You need to focus and be strong. You must start the 180 on her and collect more evidence. Confront her to be absolutely transparent with her electronics. She is lying and attempting to manipulate you. Don't let her empty words sway you, ignore what she is telling you. Watch how she acts! Stay strong brother.

Imlost

Turn the tables on her. Show her consequences.

Have her served at work so she knows you are not kidding around.

Let her know she has 6 months to stop the nonsense/affair or you will divorce her.

If you do not act like this she will never respect you or the marriage.

Do you really think they never had sex????

Take her for a polygraph.

HM

OK now for some home truths:

They are not teenagers - they have been at this for 15 months and its not sexual !?!?!? Of course they have been fvcking! No man would stay in it for this long and not expect something more substantial in return - the same probably goes for your wife! So this is one of many lies she will tell you as she "handles" you.

You seem to have a very bad attorney! You might want to consider changing hime. You could sue the employers for alienation of affection - the work environment enabled this! Clearly! However, the only reason you might not want to expose at work is that they will lose their jobs and this could hurt your family income wise (less money for your kids) and less alimony for you!

Make a much better attempt at contacting his wife - secure your proof and let her have it. She needs to know for many reasons starting with it is the morally right thing to do, but also she will help blow this affair up and the POSOM may hang your wife out to dry while trying to protect his marriage.

You are lucky in that you have friends in her company who are helping you. Make use of that to keep an eye on her.

And finally, file for bankruptcy already and get this divorce on the road. For your well being and healing too. Stop procrastinating.