SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

While the term SA can be helpful in underscoring the seriousness of the situation and the need to get help, where it can be harmful is when it is perceived as an excuse or justification. In essence, she is a serial cheater, but one who has found an IC with the specialized skills to help identify some of the underlying character issues that have made cheating a repeated pattern. Being a SA didn't pull her into an affair against her will -- she chose to do that.

Being a spouse of an addict has its own hazards, one of which is codependency. That, in part, is the belief that one somehow is at fault for the addictive behavior and/or is responsible for fixing/controlling the addict. The result is a relationship that ends up enabling the addict. Feeling that your job is to monitor her and/or that you need to stand by her because she is "sick" is well down the path of codependent behavior.

This is very difficult stuff. I applaud your openness and honesty as you try to wrap your mind around the situation you find yourself in. I'd encourage you to take a look at some books on codependent patterns (Melody Beattie has several, "No More Mr. Nice Guy" touches on it in a different way and is available in free PDF format) just for your own awareness. I'd also strongly suggest visiting the thread on Spouse of SAs in the I Can Relate Forum to more fully understand what you face. Having information and allowing yourself to process will help you get to the point where you can feel reassured that you are making the best decision and equipped to handle whatever your path forward is.

[This message edited by Crushed7 at 7:13 PM, March 3rd (Friday)]

What crushed said. I think the biggest benefit to an SA diagnosis is to understand that there a specific, defined practices that should be used to control it. And specialized treatment for spouses, too.

To me, the diagnosis made a lot of sense, the mechanisms of the addiction cycle, the fact that because he wasn't stopping, he was very close to losing his family, his home, things that grounded him when his acting out headed downhill. No rational person would have done the things he did. He had no emotional connection to his APs, it was a mutual exploitation relationship.

But the pain is in no way lessened in this situation. Knowledge does help us understand that we are not to blame.

Crushed,

What do you feel are your biggest risks in staying? What is she doing to take the responsibility for mitigating those risks? Are her actions dependent upon you staying or does she want to do all possible to provide safety for you and the kids whether or not you stay or go? Is she willing and wanting to put the risks on her shoulders and off of yours as much as possible with tangible actions?

EDarcy,

I'm wondering if you meant to address the original poster (Catch44), but will answer your questions in case it is a help to you or to Catch44.

What do you feel are your biggest risks in staying?

The one that strikes me now is the potential for a 'relapse' where there is another DDay down the road along with all the pain that would accompany it and the financial predicament it would place me (and my WS) into.

Early on in the process (the first year post DDay), I think I would have said my own healing. Infidelity is a bad enough wound, but continuing to live with someone who is an expert in manipulation/control is putting oneself at risk. In hindsight, I think that the healing process is more difficult and, as a result, takes longer when staying with a SA and that is from the perspective where my SAWW was working hard and doing most everything right. Even so, in my own case, we separated for over a year and that time/space was very important for my ability to heal and to be able to more clearly see my wife's efforts/progress.

What is she doing to take the responsibility for mitigating those risks?

The only thing she reasonably can -- doing everything possible to work on herself and keep herself accountable while also learning ways to help me in my healing.

Are her actions dependent upon you staying or does she want to do all possible to provide safety for you and the kids whether or not you stay or go?

The last DDay was #7, so she had reached a point where she had a strong feeling that she had work to do on herself. It was 4-5 month post DDay that her eyes opened up to just how broken she was and her determination to really work hard only grew stronger at that point.

Is she willing and wanting to put the risks on her shoulders and off of yours as much as possible with tangible actions?

I have seen her make many strides over the past 5+ years where she has addressed her self-centeredness, grown her empathy, developed her boundaries and made herself into a much different person. Much of that came from her understanding her FOO (family of origin) issues and how they influenced/wounded her. That exploration and understanding continues to this day (she has recently found more uncovered triggers in her that are linked to her FOO). I think this is the only full path to reducing risk -- eliminating the things that cause the risk in the first place.

What I have seen here on SI that we didn't do was a post-nup. I can see how it could be a motivation for the WS to do the work and a protection for the BS, but I don't have any direct experience with it.

Crushed, you're right, so sorry, I did mean for OP. But, points that I think are important across the board.

My husband and I have been in reconciliation coming on 5 years. I don't look at it as a destination, but rather a journey. I know, such a cliche, but accurate nonetheless. We're like the stock market, ups and downs, but over longer periods of time you can see the overall upward trend.

Over the years, I've noticed a tendency to conflate love and safety. And have found how important it is to ensure that such a conflation does not happen. Just because you love someone does not mean they are safe for you to have in your life. And, so, when making the decision about whether to stay or go, I think it is exceptionally important to recognize this fact and for the betrayed's safety to be a top priority. A truly remorseful wayward, would want this for their betrayed regardless of reconciliation or divorce.

Of course, the work of figuring out what is broken within the wayward is so important. And, not just to figure that out, but to learn how to counter the instincts deriving from that brokenness and learn more mindful, more careful, more empathetic processes for making good decisions consistently. And, that is work by the wayward for the wayward. And, does help the betrayed, as seeing that process developing with sincere and dedicated efforts, not just words, is reassuring.

Still, the safety of the betrayed must be a top priority to the wayward. For us, among many things, it included polygraph and post-nuptial agreement. These are in no way guarantees, but simply another layer to show that my husband wants to take the burden of the risk away from me as much as possible.

EDarcy - well said!

Sorry you are dealing with this crap Catch44.....

I think you are being played....your WW is terrified of losing her safe and supportive Plan B.....

And I think she is still lying to you in a desperate attempt to minimize the likelihood of you leaving.

She has admitted PA (or more accurately you busted her cheating ass) with OM1 and OM3.....but swears OM2 was only kissing while she was away at her CWW's house in December....

Sounds like bullshit to me....here's why....

You know she was actively banging OM3 at this time....hell she went and banged him again at least on 1/2/17 from the timeline you have.

So why would she feel guilty about having sex with OM2 while at her cousin's?.....after all she was already neck deep in a PA with shitbag OM3.

I would bet dollars to donuts that OM2 is a full on PA as well....and she is still lying her ass off to you about what went down.

Why does this matter?

If she is still actively lying about and minimizing what she has done, then there is simply no way to safely even contemplate R......she is all about manipulating you to save her own cushy life......her begging and promises have NOTHING to do with any feelings of love or care for you.

While I personally don't besieve in giving cheaters a second chance, I always support a BS who wants to try R.....

But that said, I also won't hesitate to tell a BS to cut bait and save themselves from a hopeless situation......

I know you may not want to admit this to yourself yet, but I think that is where you are at....

Your WW is a serial cheat who actively used her clueless IC as a weapon against you to continue her life of deception sand betrayal.....

Think about that and let the reality of it sink in.....

She was busted red handed with POSOM1....and then essentially went on the warpath against you, her BH.....using her IC and her family as weapons to beat you into submission and silence so she could continue screwing other men.

Now that her continuing cheating has blown up in her face, she is desperately trying to convince you that THIS time it will be different.....while minimizing what she actually did with lying/TT.

My advice to you?.......It's too great a risk to try R with her again.

If you decide to stay for another round, and if she returns to being wayward again in the future after the present drama dies down......well, really you will have no one to blame for your and your kids pain at that point but yourself....

Not for the cheating (that is ALWAYS 100% on the scummy wayward).....but rather for staying around for even more pain and hurt to be inflicted on your family by your traitorous WW.

Save yourself and your kids.

Best of luck.

Cut her loose and file for D.

So, exactly who made this SA 'diagnosis?'

Your run of the mill therapist who isn't qualified to diagnose SQUAT when it comes to sexual addiction?

Unless it was a certified CSAT who is QUALIFIED to make this diagnosis, then you might as well have gotten it from your UPS driver or the meter maid out on the street. It's all the rage for therapists now to use this garbage can excuse for every serial cheater who darkens their doorway and it's overdone and overused and completely disrespectful to those who actually DO suffer from this disorder.

So rule #1 - go to someone QUALIFIED to make this diagnosis and take it from there. This is why I have just about zero faith in 'therapists.' Jeez.

Sounds like your wife's only 'addiction' is to continued shit behavior, ZERO respect for you and your marriage, and a high sex drive she can't seem to keep under control. That doesn't make someone an addict. It just makes them a lousy marriage partner.

My brother was married to a woman just like this. She had a high sex drive and seemed to think that fact entitled her to cross the line occasionally whenever an opportunity fell in her lap. It's a selfish, self-entitled outlook and she seemed perfectly fine thinking she was deserving of her extra-curricular activity. They eventually divorced and he was well rid of her.

Just be very careful using excuses like SA for what really amounts to nothing more than serial cheating shit behavior that shouldn't be tolerated. Period.

So, exactly who made this SA 'diagnosis?'

The new counsellor is a CSAT who basically follows the SI mindset. I'm not sure it is a "cure" for this.

Thanks for the replies. I was advised to cut bait already on SI and didn't listen. This is already on me. I never got out of denial I guess...

Reading in sheeps clothing... working on 180 to detach...

So, is this something to build on?

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me three time ... Well, what can one say about someone who allows himself to be fooled three times?

Is this an addiction that I can live with if she is getting help?

Sadly, it seems like you can live with it. The better question is, why would you want to?

We have 3 kids who have been minimally impacted.

Even if you could learn to live with what she is doing, what kind of example would you be setting for your children. I sure hope none of them are boys.

I just don't understand that she can say she loves me and she seems to believe it.

What's to understand? She's been diagnosed as having a serious personality disorder.

I'm searching for God's will in all of this.

Do you seriously think that God wants you to be a modern-day Hosea?

I was ready to leave until I heard the words SA. And I thought, "ok, maybe she wasn't doing this to me on purpose and is broken". Is that a wrong way to be looking at this? Or is it just a way for me to justify that my wife would never willingly do this to me.

So, you think it's better to try to reconcile with someone who can't help cheating on you? Does that make any sense to you?

I never got out of denial I guess...

That's what I guess, too.

I've read some of your other threads, Catch44, and it's pretty clear that you are either afraid to leave your WW or you have absolutely no understanding of the nature of a serial cheater.

I strongly suggest you read "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Robert Glover (you can download a copy for free at https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf). Based on what I've seen, you exhibit a lot of the symptoms of codependency. The book can help you overcome this.

Sorry to be so hard on you but I really think you need to figure out why you are putting up with this.

I came home and WW wanted to read together on the couch. I kept on thinking about detaching. I triggered at 1am. WW said we are not having this conversation now. It is not good to have it now. I was mad because she was able to sleep and I wasnt. She said she'd rub my back. Since she didn't want to talk I started this email and read it when she woke for a second if she had even slept after that.

"Tonight made me sad. I felt utterly unsupported and have come to the realization that our marriage is just not going to work. We should limit our conversations to finances and children. With D gone, I feel that you should move to her room while she is gone and then we can plan from there"

WW said she wanted to pause. Take a time out. If I was to keep talking she would sleep on the couch. So I talked and she slept on the couch.

Figuring out what to do next.

She just apologized and explained what she did as a time out (paraphrased). To avoid things escalating into a bigger fight. That she loves me and it working toward a healthy marriage. I just stayed quiet, sort of. WW said sorry you had a really hard night. I snarked, "it's been a really hard two years". She said sorry. Again, saying that she loved me before leaving to take kids and hoping I feel better.

[This message edited by Catch44 at 10:39 AM, March 7th (Tuesday)]

She just apologized ... WW said sorry ... She said sorry ...

Catch44,

Is she doing anything besides apologizing?

Did she agree to take the polygraph test that you mentioned in your "Am I over reacting" thread?

WW agreed to a polygraph and then TT'd. WW called her parents to discuss the latest TT and a Nov 2015 PA while we were "separated".

WW told her WW cousin that they are now NC. I got a text from the WWC saying "F**K Y*U! You controlling asshole" that afternoon. WWC enabled WW to have her A's. But WW is adamant that WW needs to take full responsibilty (after I said WWC is responsible for her own choices/behaviors). We agreed that their relationship was toxic and needed to be ended.

WW has her phone on the counter. CSAT has said scrolling through instagram is an obsessive behavior/repetitive so that has stopped.

Phone # was changed. WW excused aspects by saying she was contacted.

Social media accounts are closed except Instagram. I have full phone access.

WW is working through the workbook Facing the Shadow.

She has agreed that we will find an MC and she won't be seeing the original IC anymore.

She agreed to the polygraph and one yearly for however long I feel.

We talked yesterday for a couple of hours. She doesn't blame me for any of the A's/ own's it. WW says that she started to hate me but that she should have sought counseling at that point. That it was her fault that she let it build. She still goes back to 15 years of resentment but looks at what I have to deal with and she feels like the what she has done to me is horrible.

We'll see. Cheater's lie. Liar's cheat.

I am at the point that Crushed7 mentioned. What if... I am choosing not to leave just yet, I'm curious about the possibility. Bracing for 2x4.

I do notice manipulation a bit easier. I don't know if it is good or bad because I get angry when I perceive it. Today she said I fear you will "be angry", or something to that affect. I said so are you trying to control my behaviour because you fear some future issue that hasn't happened. I reminded her that she TT'd just yesterday.

[This message edited by Catch44 at 5:41 PM, March 9th (Thursday)]

So is this TT an OM#4 you now know about? (Even if he is chronologically #1)

What is most disturbing is that she would even dare to bring up '15 years of resentment' at all at this point.....

Even if she is then following up with statements that say she knows her resentment is no excuse for what she has done to you and the M......it still shows where her heart and mind truly are.

This is YOUR fault....but she knows if she says that to you right now, you are gone and she has lost her Plan B.

But don't think for a minute that this isn't her true feeling on her multiple affairs......she will just never tell you because she wants to keep her comfortable life.

Is that what you want to settle for?

It is ultimately your choice......but no way in hell would I advise you to stay with such an unremorseful cheater.

Thanks Dyokemm.

Yeah this morning more TT about FaceTiming in our bed.

I'm moving toward D. I don't think WW is capable of being honest.

Wow... No More Mr. Nice Guy! Is really good! I regret not getting it sooner.

Wow... No More Mr. Nice Guy! Is really good! I regret not getting it sooner.

Better late than never! It's a bummer that you need the information, but it is setting you on a path to a stronger and healthier future.

Wow... No More Mr. Nice Guy! Is really good! I regret not getting it sooner.

Glad you think so.

Frankly, I think everyone can benefit from reading it, not just guys "nice guys."