SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I grew up in a dysfunctional family:

Father - Alcoholic - Distant

Mother - Depressive - Went off her meds in my early years

Oldest Brother - Alcoholic, Pot Head, used herion

Middle Brother - Alcoholic, Pot Head and Herion addict.

For years I resented them, I hated them for what they did to me.

Me - Alcoholic, Sex Addict, Food Addict

In the past I would not call my parents or my brothers for months at a time. I just didn't want to deal with the pain. In my 12 step program we do the following:

4th Step - An inventory of our resentments, fears, harms and sexual harms. Once we finish it we look at the list and look for what we did that caused these things. In some cases we didn't do anything, but in other things there were specifically attitudes and actions that let to them treating me badly and then I held a resentment, fear, caused harm, or caused sexual harm.

5th Step - We admit these things to another person, and our higher power

6th Step - We look over the 4th step and figure out what character defects we have that helped cause those issues resented in the 4th step.

7th Step - Become willing to have these defects removed and live differently.

8th Step - we make a list of those persons we harmed with our actions and became willing to make admends

9th Step - I made direct amends to the persons I harmed.

A few months ago my wife and I along with a couple of kids took a trip to my home state. On the route home, we stopped by my father's grave. I sat down and simply told him that I was not the greatest son in the world. I had pushed him away, and because of my resentments, I treated him terribly. I asked for him to forgive me and to pray for me where ever he is. It was at this point when I admitted that I played a huge role in the resentment that I could begin to forgive him. I went on and made direct amends to my Mom and my brothers.

My hatred of them has melted, sometimes it crops up, but because I was willing to forgive I was able to move toward happiness. I know they caused me hurt, but I also know that was the situation we were in and they made crappy choices. I choose to let go the anger and fear, and to be a better person.

Forgiveness was for me, not for them. Carrying around the weight of that hatred was such a burden it became an anchor I was tied and it was keeping me in the same place.

sorrowful

I gues when it comes down to it, most of the people that wronged me are gone or dead. I don't hold much hatred for anyone anymore, even my psycho step dad. The only real negative feelings I have are directed at myself. Letting go of the past is very difficult. I don't hate myself anymore, call it a big dislike for now.

One step at a time

[This message edited by ff4152 at 5:58 AM, May 30th (Tuesday)]

I will never forgive my wife. Never. She's done nothing to earn my forgiveness & I don't think she cares whether I ever do or not. She just wants me to never, ever bring it up. It makes me want to punish her forever.

Anoka,

Your wife has caused a great deal of deep soul wrenching pain.

I was stating from my experience as a wayward, that I could no longer live with deep resentments. For me they are a poison and will eventually lead back to a mindset of entitlement which I used as excuses for having affairs.

I have caused my wife much deep pain also. I will never demand or expect her to forgive me. It's not my place to do so. I can have hope it might happen, but it's not something that I obsess about.

Anoka:

That sentiment is why I'm terrified of staying.

[This message edited by SilverLinings55 at 1:27 PM, January 26th (Friday)]

Coming up on 16 years past Dday. WW and I are still together and fine.

That said, I'm unsure how forgiveness fits into the reconciliation equation.

Do I grant her a pardon and absolve her of having a LTA which pretty much wrecked my psyche? No. I still resent what she did, and as long as that resentment exists, I don't see how forgiveness is possible.

How could I not resent her?

However, I do accept what she did. It happened. It was part of my life, and the pain from it would continue whether I stayed with her or not. I stayed obviously - mostly because I didn't want another man playing daddy to my daughters. Anyway, it happened. There's nothing that I can do in the present to change the past, so all that I can possibly do is accept it. I don't like it, I resent it, but it's there.

Please understand though, that I in no way hold what my wife did over her head. We practically never even speak of those years. We have a good life together, and enjoy each other's company. We have grandchildren now. Life goes on, because that's all it can do.

Am I strong or weak for staying? I have no idea, and don't actually care about the answer.

[This message edited by nightmare01 at 11:34 AM, May 30th (Tuesday)]

I automatically considered it a strength, because it's hard to do. If it were a weakness, it must be easy, right? Because weak people do the easy thing.

But now I think perhaps it's neither. Like Sumofan said, it's an action one either takes or doesn't. And I don't know that it's absolutely necessary for R, but I do know that it's primarily for ME to heal and stop festering. The happiest and most at-peace people I know don't carry a lot of hate, anger and baggage for wrongs committed against them. Because they know that it's only hurting THEM.

Sometimes I think when someone says a week after dday "oh, I've forgiven my WH" that it's false, just like a false R. I have never told my H I forgive him, because I don't want to have to take it back. This is such a rollercoaster that I don't know if I will fully forgive him. There is at least one part of this ordeal that I will probably never be able to fully forgive. I may be able to release the need for revenge, or some of the intense anger, but forgiveness to me is more complete than just letting go of the need for revenge. Maybe that's an incorrect interpretation of forgiveness, but having been brought up a southern Baptist, that's my mindset. Now I'm not really religious at all, and I feel that some of this is just not forgiveable. And I understand that some WS are caught up in fantasy land at the time of the A, but I don't buy the total fog BS. They know what they are doing and the choices that they made. It's not a magic spell.

Hm, still have some anger, I guess.

Nightmare, for what it's worth, what you describe is exactly what forgiveness actually originally meant. It doesn't mean you don't have any emotions or feelings about it. It just means you aren't collecting on the debt or charging interest. Just saying.

smokenfire:

Maybe so. I had to look the word up in the dictionary to be sure I understood what was being asked of me.

"to cease to feel resentment against. To forgive one's enemies."

I just don't get how any one could go through this and not feel resentment.

But as you said, I'm not charging interest.

See? this is not what the word was intended to me. It has nothing to do with feelings:

Old English forgiefan "give, grant, allow; remit (a debt), pardon (an offense)," also "give up" and "give in marriage" (past tense forgeaf, past participle forgifen); from for-, here probably "completely," + giefan "to give" (from PIE root *ghabh- "to give or receive").

The sense of "to give up desire or power to punish" (late Old English) is from use of such a compound as a Germanic loan-translation of Vulgar Latin *perdonare (Old Saxon fargeban, Dutch vergeven, German vergeben "to forgive," Gothic fragiban "to grant;" and see pardon (n.)). Related: Forgave; forgiven; forgiving.

It's an act, not a feeling actually, a decision.

I stress this (I know I look all OCD) but it's an important part of the moving past things process. If you are not collecting or charging interest, you benefit. IF the other party benefits, so be it, but that's not the point. It's the release of obssessive thoughts, bitterness, anger. etc.

I didn't meant to sweep you up in this, but to me you are doing this, based on the word origin.

I forgave my wife - and I did so very early on without knowing which way our path was going to go. And I forgave her because I knew however we ended up, I wasn't going to resent and hate her.

Just based on experience, hate and resentment can be great fuel for survival. I had a horrid step-dad who loved to kick me in the ribs and stand on my neck from the ages of 8-10. But I took that anger and resentment out on the rest of the world for while -- and my wife caught some of the fall-out from that over time.

Ultimately, I learned resentment doesn't add a lot of value to my day. And it certainly doesn't allow for progress in any relationship.

So, I forgave her.

But forgiveness is NOT mean that I'm okay with what happened at all, it just means I'm not going to hate her for it - be it D or R.

Acceptance is the tricky part for me. It will take some serious strength to reach full on acceptance of it all...

Forgiveness is a difficult thing for me, due to FOO issues. My mother demanded forgiveness of my brother and I each time she abused us, after all it was what God demanded of us.

So I have difficulty with just the word. However, I can forgive. Some things, and the things that I cannot, I accept. I accept that they were done and I let go of them. I no longer demand the pound of flesh or justice.And that is for me, not for them. I found that finding acceptance on some things allowed me to move forward.

I've always thought of it in the debt sense—it's like a debtor writing off a bad debt. They know they're never collecting on that debt, but it's written off.

The creditor the often experiences a period of time when there's a blot on the "credit" history, even after being forgiven.

X hated this stance. From Day One, nothing but a "clean slate" worked for him.

I dont mention it in my profile, because when I came here it was for my own infidelity, and learning how to become a healthier person for myself and therefore mr cinnamon, but in our past, he had a "relationship" with my best friend, while living with me. I allowed it, because I was afraid of losing both of them, stuffed away the emotions, and begun my path of wayward thinking. Was gaslit, told it was my fault, that I was being old fashioned, that I needed to get myself into the 21st century. They both made me feel like I was crazy for just wanting a monogamous relationship in my 20's. That it was unnatural and insane.

While doing all of my own digging, I realized that I had never forgiven either of them, and my resentment ran deep. The resentment and anger I held inside, contributed to the bad habits I developed regardingall my relationships; romantic, friendships, family, work. I learned to stuff that resentment until it became toxic, a poison, that blurred my vision, and perspective.

It's been 15 years since then, and about 4 1/2 since my final dday. I've since been through years of therapy, make sure that we are both 100% transparent with one another, and spent an awful lot of time learning to forgive, so that my own heart holds no bitterness. Through observing my own work and growth, Mr Cinnamon started to own his part in our crumbling relationship,and work through some of his own anger and resentment.

Now, I'm a little different irt the affair between bff and so. I admit that I" forgave" a little too hastily, in an attempt to "win" them both back, but over time, and through talking it to death and both demonstrating they were at fault, and apologizing for hurting me, we've all healed, and moved forward. It's not forgotten, and bff and I are close, but it will never be what it was. One thing that's for sure, though, when I forgave them, I kept it to myself, because that was a gift I gave myself. It lifted over a decade of pain and emotional weight from my shoulders to be free of that anger and resentment.

Forgive does not mean happy, or content, or even moving on, just learning to let go of the outcome, and move forward.

Forgiveness can be the supercharger for your inner strength, but it's only bling if you don't have the goods.

IMO:

Individual Strength-Outer. Harder shell. Bitterness. Anger. Resentment. Carpet sweep. Avoid. It's reacting to risk. It's tiring. It's being guarded. It doesn't provide happiness. It's selfish. It's not crying or expressing your emotions. It's living differently on the outside. It's less confidence. It's more anxiety. It's less peace.

Individual Strength-Inner. It increasing your understanding of love, what drives you, it's reflecting, it's changing your beliefs, its having more confidence. It's willing to loose your marriage in order to save it. It's about standing on your own two feet. It's learning to forgive. It's screening away pain. It's not using others. Its more confidence. It's less anxiety. It's more peace.

@WhatsRight

But forgiveness is necessary for R to take place.

And is necessary for both parties to heal.

How do I forgive him when its still new? I don't want to be happy for him because I feel that the only punishment he gets is seeing me sad and having me mad at him at times. I know it is not healthy for me, but I am scared to give forgiveness because then he will have "gotten away with it". IMO.

Does this mean I am not in real R because I haven't forgiven?

[This message edited by Worstpainever at 1:27 PM, May 31st (Wednesday)]

Just my .02.

WS in the context of infidelity want "forgiveness," because they equate it to absolution. Or they figure it is a magical "episode over," kind of moment. It doesn't work like that. It can't ever be taken back and it will never be forgotten.

I can never say that what my W did was right or that our M is "better" because of it. I, my W and our children have suffered for her choices. Some of us worse than others. We are still together, but I rightfully, take a hell of a lot of credit in that. Full disclosure. . . I showed grace because it checked more boxes in what I want out of my life than it didn't. I made a decision based on what I want in life and kept it in alignment with my values. I did not base it in fear, convenience or to prove anything to anyone. That is strength. I had/have a choice and I made the right one for me. I have to give myself the freedom to make that choice again every so often. R or healing never really ends. It's just lower on the list of things you think about.

The whole, "forgiveness is something you give yourself," was thought up to sell you martial self help packages for 19.95 plus shipping. If someone tells you that I'd bet you are paying them in some way. They are just selling you delusions you haven't thought of yet.

Like twisted said I've moved on, but I remember and it is a vivid memory. There is no way this experience will not enter my thoughts any time I need to make a judgement. It is too big and taught me way too much about myself not to become a part of who I am. It is always a fair game topic in your thoughts and a factor in any decision going forward. She showed me what she was capable of doing and I do myself a disservice If I pretend not to care or consider it as a possibility.

The thing is my perspective has changed. My W did this to herself and she will suffer plenty for the rest of her life related to her choices. We all suffer or benefit from our choices in life. There is nothing I can do to punish her that would be worse that what she puts herself through. That combined with a real deep and genuine desire to see me happy is remorse. I can be happy and sad at the same time we all can. Nobody is that one dimensional.

I don't forgive the unforgivable and I don't offer absolution as I have not figured out how to be "higher power." I live my life and try to have a happy one. My actions speak for themselves. Why ruin something that is working for you, as individual, by applying a label to it ? Does it really matter what it is called ? It matters if I am at peace with it and can smile afterwards.

I already got the baggage. I might as well get on the plane to see where I end up.

I just wanted to commend you in going throug a step program- I'm part of Celebrate Recovery myself. You're ability to see your faults in all actions- not all things done to us will have faults of our own- but they more than likely have indirect actions that we are responsible for.... (like my childhood sexual abuse- none was my fault- but the things I did like my escape through alcohol or food or sex or whatever else it was- those were my actions and I had faults in them.

But as you are learning forgiveness is the key... it isn't for the other person but for us- for forgiveness frees us-not the other person.. I still work on forgiveness daily and the hardest to forgive is myself. praying you will still find strength in continually forgiveness and break the cycle...