SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi 20yrs,

"Much to consider from your posts especially in how to frame up the ask."

The most important factor in any actions a betrayed spouse considers taking is what the aim is. What are you trying to achieve? That can be hard to see sometimes when you are emotionally involved, so I developed an approach to my life several years ago of thinking about my problems as if they are happening to a friend of mine rather than to me. I then think about the advice I would give to my friend, and frequently it is different to what my emotions tell me to do. Getting a bit of distance and detachment can be a real benefit for thinking things through.

I did a degree in Business Studies twenty years ago, and when it comes to planning, there is 'strategy', and there are 'tactics'. The simple definitions of them are:

Strategy - where we want to be

Tactics - how we are going to get there

For you, I would say that your strategy would be:

"The affair will be completely dead and neutralised, and my wife will have proved that she is fully committed to the marriage and family again."

You then structure a series of actions (tactics) to achieve your goal (strategy). Thinking this way was a real eye-opener for me, because I am usually impassive, but when I give in to my emotions, it can be quite chaotic. If you ever need an instructor to teach Irrational Rage 101, give me a call! But where my first response used to be to let my emotions run free, it is now, "say nothing, do nothing, give this a couple of days, and think about it like it is a problem you are advising a friend about". This really works well for me.

The point about figuring out a goal, and a plan for reaching it, is that it prevents you from taking a load of disconnected, uncoordinated actions that 'feel' right (or at least release emotional stress and pressure for you). Who the hell thinks like a marketing manager or an army general in the wake of infidelity being discovered? Nobody, right? But maybe we need to be doing that.

Now, if your wife had completely checked out of the marriage, there isn't much you can do to guide her back. But in your case, she is involved, and is taking part in plans for the future. That is very good. She has an interest in moving forward with you and the kids. So the angle to take is (1) sweetheart, think of how great the future can be as we watch the kids grow up and build a solid, safe family around them to protect them, as compared with (2) we split up, you are a single Mom, the OM goes on his way, and the kids grow up without the family that they can have if you just re-commit. Which option seems better to you, dear? It's a no-brainer, isn't it?

You then frame the things that you need, like a detailed, written timeline and the 'no contact' letter as the things that MUST - no arguments - happen before the reconciliation process can begin.

What you are doing is laying out a pathway that leads her back to the marriage, and away from the affair, but you must never appear desperate, or overly committed. It doesn't matter what you may really be feeling, you put on a mask and costume and play the part that is most likely to achieve your goal. If you are anything like me, you may feel a mix of emotions that make you feel like you want to get on your knees and beg her not to crush your world by leaving, and seconds later, to form an angry posse and tar and feather her.

If I were you, one thing I would be leaning on heavily is what her future will be like if you split, compared with how good it can be if she dumps the OM and re-commits to the marriage and family.

As far as the 'no contact' letter goes, I think the way to frame it is as a thing that will help her to prove she is more committed to the marriage and family than the OM. Do not force the issue. The best way to play it to achieve what you want is to be detached, and say, "You can do what you want. You want to be with him, fine, pack your bags and go and be with him. If you want a future with me and the kids, write the letter, break off contact, and that's it. I am at the point where I can end all of this sh*t right now, and you will no longer have the option of the marriage and family. You will only have the OM, and you better hope he likes raising another man's kids, or you're going to end up dumped and alone. I'll give you space to think about it."

Alongside that, you can also say, "I married you because I love you. When we had children, that was the most incredible experience of my life. That is why your affair hurt me so much. It is entirely up to you if you want to destroy everything. I don't. I want my wife back. The kids want their Mom back. So what do you say? Will you come back, or will you leave to go with the OM?"

Is there an element of fighting 'dirty' in any of this? Oh yes. Identify the weak spots of the affair and keep going for them, full on, with all guns blazing. In your situation, staying in the marriage is far and away better for your wife than breaking up everything. What you need to do is find as many ways as possible to make that clear to your wife.

So take the approach of, "I am telling you this for your own benefit." In conjunction with that, you need to give her the impression that you are fine (and ready) for her to leave and go with the OM. You can even tell her that she is welcome to do that, but express sadness about all the good things she will miss if she does.

She may have strayed, but the power here belongs to you. Use it wisely, to achieve what you want.

[This message edited by M1965 at 6:52 PM, June 3rd (Saturday)]

I have serious doubts if the affair ever really stopped. It sound more like it just went underground with her being more careful and making sure all evidence is deleted. With her still seeing him every day at work, it is hard to accept that her feelings for him just went away suddenly.

It takes two for a successful R. She does not appear to be on board yet. Sounds like she is more concerned with calming her Plan B (you).

What you expect in the VAR, or hope not, is they sit in the car at lunch, before work, after work, or during a break. Car is a safe haven for cheaters, even more than the workplace itself.

The car just goes to the train station so they are unlikely to meet in car without some planning.

I do like sending the "no contact" letter.... So I like sending it just because you can kind of take your wife's "temperature" about how she feels about the affair partner compared to you and your marriage.

The second reason I like the "no contact" letter is because it can be used to put teeth into consequences for the affair partner if the affair partner does not accede to the request. "I want to formally tell you to never contact me again. I love my husband, who is the love of my life, and I choose him over you. If you contact me again, I will consider it harassment and will further whatever employment and legal actions as I deem necessary." Even better, if it comes from an attorney on your wife's behalf.

Thanks, wk55hn I like the idea of a temperature check. I always regretted not seeing the 'break up' text. And had I been a little more informed or clear headed would have demanded something to follow that up. There was always a lot of waterworks at that time around any discussion of the affair. A lot of self pity mostly.

I am going to get the VAR at bestbuy tomorrow but I don't know if I can hold out on having a difficult conversation. Even before this email my gut was telling me something was off, even though there is a ton of 'sincere' positives. Now, since the email, I do have to remind myself that the lying habit did not magically end.

Just another point of information. She did write me a letter about 4 weeks after d-day and volunteered some details and a bit of a timeline. We just haven't made it through the whole story as it got ugly last time it was discussed and since then not much discussion of it. That was a few months back now. She did bring it up once since then and was very regretful.

Since then we have been busy with life in what mostly felt a positive way. Rug sweeping i guess as it was always still on my mind. I thought, before finding this email, that we should read 'not just friends' together and work thought that. Going through the story together is part of the process in that book. Haven't got there yet as far as reading that book and now the email. I still think reading that book together is a good idea but also need to seriously set the boundaries. Deliver some kind of ultimatum as has been suggested by a few here.

Thanks again mi965 for taking the time to post. Appreciate your input and others here.

But in your case, she is involved, and is taking part in plans for the future. That is very good. She has an interest in moving forward with you and the kids. So the angle to take is (1) sweetheart, think of how great the future can be as we watch the kids grow up and build a solid, safe family around them to protect them, as compared with (2) we split up, you are a single Mom, the OM goes on his way, and the kids grow up without the family that they can have if you just re-commit. Which option seems better to you, dear? It's a no-brainer, isn't it?

You then frame the things that you need, like a detailed, written timeline and the 'no contact' letter as the things that MUST - no arguments - happen before the reconciliation process can begin.

What you are doing is laying out a pathway that leads her back to the marriage, and away from the affair,

This is a kind of ultimatum i think needs to be delivered. As I mentioned I do have a fair bit of evidence from the actual affair period and he wrote a whopper of a letter suggesting they had talked about us seperating and that he wanted to be with her from 'honest' place etc. So they have discussed seperation and he has certainly promised to be there for her in the future. The angle of consequences though is seperation from kids. To miss a christmas with them and other things would be a tough future and not an option she would like to choose.

So take the approach of, "I am telling you this for your own benefit." In conjunction with that, you need to give her the impression that you are fine (and ready) for her to leave and go with the OM. You can even tell her that she is welcome to do that, but express sadness about all the good things she will miss if she does.

She may have strayed, but the power here belongs to you. Use it wisely, to achieve what you want.

This is very inline with my current thinking on the approach. I have accepted we may have to move on. It will suck in some ways (financial hit, kids will get fucked over) but obviously being free of bullshit, will be a huge positive in the end. Kids are resilient but not sure a 4 year old gets it. Kids do a ton of stuff and that will likely have to be curbed.

At the same time I hope she wakes the fuck up. She actually wrote those words in her letter. It seems she may have once again lost sight of things.

I will explain to her that the family cannot continue while there is lying. That the family cannot absorb any more abuse and a no contact letter is needed.

Additionally we need to work through the 'not just friends' book together so she gets the hurt she has caused and dispel all remaining secrets.

Counseling is a must as habitual lying and compartmentalization is a serious issue.

This weekend we will have both our mothers here tomorrow and then in 2 weeks its our 11th anniversary. We have plans tomorrow night and for the anniversary. A full calendar of us doing stuff, for ourselves, the kids etc. We always joked that you could never pull off an affair cause we were so busy. Again it is amazing with all the 'sincere' positives happening that there is still this bullshit in the background.

There is never a good time for these confrontations which is probably why it went quiet for last couple months. Can't continue to let things slide clearly.

Because you've let it slide you need some meat to your laying down a black line in the sand. You need to go chat with a lawyer so that you completely understand your options so that when a black line in the sand is drawn that there is consequence on one end.

You were milky and run swept consequences six months ago. you cannot point a gun with no bullets in it

She or om are going to have to leave the job or nc isn't possible.

Hi 20yrs,

I always regretted not seeing the 'break up' text. And had I been a little more informed or clear headed would have demanded something to follow that up. There was always a lot of waterworks at that time around any discussion of the affair. A lot of self pity mostly.

There is a chance, if your wife is willing to give you her phone, to recover the message with software called Dr. Phone. However, that really goes back to the past, and if you are going to put together a 'no contact' letter with her, that is the thing to focus on now.

I do have to remind myself that the lying habit did not magically end.

Really, honesty - or a lack of it - lies at the core of your situation. It is, of course, incredibly emotive, and my heart goes out to you as you navigate your way through it.

As hard as it will be to 'sympathise', I think it is an important element in the aftermath of infidelity to do it. So, if you can, try to detach from your feelings, zoom out, and imagine you are looking at the same situation, but imagining it as if it was about a couple of other people.

Look at the wife. She has met and married a man that she loved, and probably still does, but she has, for a time, also been involved with a co-worker. Her emotions feel torn. She has crossed lines that no 'good' person crosses. The illicit relationship has been like a drug addiction, and she has sacrificed a lot to maintain it, as addicts do. And part of that maintaining behaviour has been learning to lie. Regularly. To her husband. To her children. To herself. Perhaps lying as a coping mechanism has always been a part of her personality. But now, especially, she has good reason to avoid the truth, because of her actions. And because of those actions, she finds herself caught between two men and three children. What does she do? Whatever she does, someone will get hurt. People already have been. So does she make a move, or does she stay still, stay in place, on top of the fence, not hurting anyone any more than they have already been hurt? Who knows, maybe life can go on this way indefinitely...

Only it can't, can it, because fence-sitting is not fair to anyone involved? But as the person who created the mess, the wife is the last person likely to make a move.

Which means the husband has to do it...And here we are.

So you find yourself in the awkward position of trying to win back someone whose actions could justify your tarring and feathering her and running her out of town. Oh, how many of us have been in that spot? Judging by this forum, the answer is "thousands".

On the plus side, if your wife had wanted to go, she could already have gone.

I do have a fair bit of evidence from the actual affair period and he wrote a whopper of a letter suggesting they had talked about us seperating and that he wanted to be with her from 'honest' place etc. So they have discussed seperation and he has certainly promised to be there for her in the future.

I have to be honest here. That letter? I want to go round to that Piece of Sh*t's house and make him eat it. And I am not even involved! However, to draw back and think rationally, that POS effectively suggested that your wife should leave you and start a life with him, and she has not done that. Although she may lie, and what you want is the truth, your wife's actions in response to the POS's letter are very revealing, and quite encouraging in terms of which way she would go if you make her get off the fence.

Knowing that she could have left, but hasn't, is a huge and significant thing as you ponder the best way forward. It gives you something to work with.

And the 'working' thing makes me think that the timing for getting her to make a decision, clearly and decisively, is not quite right now. Obviously, that has to happen sometime, but you need to choose the right moment for it. The 'sweet' spot, when the time is right. Just at the moment, it sounds like your wife is not quite ready for that. You say as much yourself:

Additionally we need to work through the 'not just friends' book together so she gets the hurt she has caused and dispel all remaining secrets.

Counseling is a must as habitual lying and compartmentalization is a serious issue.

Do these things, and interact with her intensively, letting her know that you want her to return to the fold and move forwards as a family, before you get to the point of making her make a decision. Be sophisticated; do as much as possible to get her to focus on you, the kids, the family, etc, read the books, do the counselling, and then - AFTER these things have happened - get her to make a decision about which way she goes. If I were you, I would be doing lots of 'us' stuff, lots of 'family' stuff, and making a ton of plans for the future. That will all inform her decision-making process, and the POS OM will start to look more and more like a non-starter.

Should you have to do this kind of thing? Is it fair? Is it just? No. But you are in a forum full of people who have faced similar situations, and in the real world we sometimes have to compromise a bit to achieve a long-term positive solution.

For the sake of that solution, put your anger on ice and focus on leading your wife back to the family by making you and the family a positive and attractive thing that she can have, as long as she ditches a less attractive alternative. I know some will say that is the "pick me, pick me" dance, but it really isn't. What you should do is let her know the good things she can have if she returns to the family, and after letting that sink in, let her know that she is free to choose an alternative.

You need to go chat with a lawyer so that you completely understand your options so that when a black line in the sand is drawn that there is consequence on one end.

Thanks sharkman good point. For reference just before d-day when i had evidence I met with and contacted several lawyers as well as mediator. My understanding for canadian law is the the parents need to agree and work out everything. She knows I saw a lawyer and this did have an impact on her. I will visit the lawyer again as needed.

Hi 20yrs

I've been sitting back and watching your thread. Sorry that this is where u are.

I think you are getting great advice and I think you are coming to the correct conclusion that I definitely agree with that at this point you should be more in confront mode more than needing to be in evidence collection mode because DDay already happened for u both months ago, she is a confessed cheater and that has been established. No need for more evidence.

However I wanted to add one thing to the discussion that may have been said and missed by me but it's what comes to my mind when I read your story.

If it were me that were cheated on, before going to great lengths to work on the marriage and R, I'd start with getting the answer to a simple (yet emotionally difficult) question. I would find out if she feels you are the "love of her life". Because if you are not, I don't see any reason to put in all that hard work if the answer is no. Now some might say you can have a good marriage even if the answer to that question is no, and I might agree, until there is infidelity. After the A, for me, I couldn't stay with someone if the answer that question is no.

We all deserve to be with someone who makes us absolutely #1. I cannot fathom working hard at my marriage and spending my life with someone who is pining away for someone else. The long game takes DECADES here and that is way to long to always be wondering if she is being faithful.

So if it were me, the message I would convey would be something like this: ...

<I would show her the printed text messages I found>. I found that you are no longer NC with AP. Finding this has brought some clarity to my mind that I want to discuss with you.

18yrs. I wish you luck with this. As I have seen it said many times here in order to save the marriage you need to be willing to end it. Sorry if this was too long or didn't help.

I'm a little late to this party, but from what I see/hear in what I have read is that your Wife is still cheating on you.

If she is in contact, she is cheating.

The very first rule of R, and healing a M no more lies, of any kind ever. No LIES. It's quite simple and there is no gray area, and if you allow it, then you will be the one who ends up hurt.

Your wife, is being allowed to lie and manipulate you.

See a lawyer, get a really good understanding of your rights, and her responsiblities, not just a supposition of what will happen because you know what happened to bill in accounting when his wife cheated.

Next stop operating from a place a fear. You are afraid to put your foot down, you are afraid to tell her find another job, you are afraid to do anything that gives the power back to you, most likely because you are scared to death of losing your M. But the kicker here is you have already lost it, you just haven't realized that yet.

It's painful and it sucks. But it's true.

Time do decide what you want, time to demand the respect you deserve. If she can't or won't give it, then you get to choose, to live being disrespected, and abused or to walk away knowing you did what you could, but she CHOSE not to.

I came here for help and I am humbled by the effort of posters here. Thank you.

As hard as it will be to 'sympathise', I think it is an important element in the aftermath of infidelity to do it.

Knowing that she could have left, but hasn't, is a huge and significant thing as you ponder the best way forward. It gives you something to work with.

What you should do is let her know the good things she can have if she returns to the family, and after letting that sink in, let her know that she is free to choose an alternative.

M1965 you have provided a lot of insight for me in the last couple posts. I don't know if I can sympathize, I am pretty angry at times. Its subsided but its still there. I do realize every bad thing I think about the OM in a way can be applied to my WW. It does make me pause thinking about it that way.

You make a great point that she hasn't taken him up on the offer. She acknowledged that it was an escape and she felt terrible shame for doing it.

Yet she kept doing it.

Using some of the tactics from earlier post I did have a talk with her today. I could not wait any longer and I offered her the choice.

I said I could not accept any more lies. She was confused about the lies, admitted she was talking to him just about 'day to day' stuff. She thought I was talking about lies of omission. I was very stern on this point and said any communication is unacceptable. She needed to make a choice and that I would not be disrespected any more. She said she wanted our family and marriage more than anything. She agreed to write a 'no contact' email. And after reviewing it this evening it was sent.

Whether this is legit, who can say? It felt very believable. But I have been fooled before. My gut feel is that it was not false.

In her note she repeated that 'they will not speak' twice in the closing paragraph. That she was making good choices now and this was an important one. I had given her a second chance and she was committed to me. As far as a 'no contact' letter goes, it seemed to cover everything needed.

She agreed to counselling and I said it needed to be booked tomorrow.

I think you are getting great advice and I think you are coming to the correct conclusion that I definitely agree with that at this point you should be more in confront mode more than needing to be in evidence collection mode because DDay already happened for u both months ago, she is a confessed cheater and that has been established. No need for more evidence.

Thanks Stevesn this is where I found my headspace. I just needed to have the conversation. We will see where this goes but it seemed to be a very positive outcome.

There was some urgency for me as well to get this sorted as we are about to make a significant buying decision and it just didn't make sense with this uncertainty hanging.

I do understand there are still risks but feel much better having confronted her and seeing decisive action from her.

The very first rule of R, and healing a M no more lies, of any kind ever. No LIES. It's quite simple and there is no gray area, and if you allow it, then you will be the one who ends up hurt.

Time do decide what you want, time to demand the respect you deserve. If she can't or won't give it, then you get to choose, to live being disrespected, and abused or to walk away knowing you did what you could, but she CHOSE not to.

Thanks Tushnurse I agree and the lies and uncertainty were causing me issues and I was hitting that breaking point where I could visualize and accept seperation as a possible outcome. That belief is what helped me have the difficult conversation. Which once it started wasn't all that hard. As I noted earlier there is a lot of helpful advice here and I don't think I would be where i am with a 'no contact' letter out the door without it.

You still need to see that lawyer. Period.

And while you're there as him what your options are with purchasing something large. Post-nups do not have much in the way of teeth, but she won't know that

I'm glad you had a talk but in my opinion what you are missing is that she must leave the job and never have any contact with him again.

When are you going to stand up for your M and ask for that?

No Soliciting

[This message edited by SI Staff at 6:15 AM, June 5th (Monday)]

"Ignore that letter my husband had me send. It was so silly wasn't it? I thought that you'd get a good chuckle out of it"

20yrs,

This great to hear. I am very pleased for you that you spoke your mind, and that your wife was so positive in her responses. I know it is hard to trust anything at the moment, but you could look at it from the angle of why would she lie about being positive things relating to the family and her commitment? It would be cruel to you to lie about it, and pointless for her, because if she wasn’t happy, and wanted to go, lying about wanting to stay would just be making things worse for herself.

The chances are, she may have wanted to talk about things too. It must be obvious to her that you have times when you are unhappy or ‘quiet’. Breaking the silence is the only way to resolve things, and although discussing these matters can be incredibly hard at time, it is great that you and your wife manged to do it so calmly and productively. Her positive attitude, when you effectively sprang the discussion on her without any warning or time for her to ‘think’ about her answers, is – for me – a good sign too. She wasn’t defensive, she wasn’t ‘vague’ and “I can’t remember” about anything, and it was great that she thought you meant lies of omission and opened up about work contact with the OM.

It is great that the ‘no contact’ letter has been written, and that she did it without resistance. The content really tells her as much as it tells the OM. I honestly don’t think that she would be so co-operative, and so positive in her attitude to the marriage, if she had any intention to leave. There would be no point for her to go to these lengths to bullsh*t you, because if she wanted to go, and you blew your top and threw her out, the OM has already made his grand gesture of saying she could be with him (if she really wanted that). So she isn’t going along with what you want because she has no other options.

It is possible for us to get into a mind-set where we view our wayward spouses as alien creatures who get some kind of warped satisfaction from lies and deceit, and who always do the opposite of what they actually mean or feel. It is horrible what a loss of trust can do. But the reality is that a wayward can have regret about the damage and pain that they have caused, and they can also want to repair whatever they can. So I think you have played thing exactly right, giving your wife several ways to prove her commitment to the marriage, and to being more honest with you. Obviously, you won’t suddenly trust everything that she says and does, nor should you. Instead, watch what she does, and be positive and encouraging about the good things. I know I used the word ‘sympathise’ in a previous post, and I think I really meant ‘empathise’, but imagine how you would feel if you were a wayward trying to prove your desire to move away from infidelity. You would want your efforts to be recognised, and to get some positive feedback.

You have established a good and clear path to be followed, and I am hopeful that your wife will see it as an opportunity to redeem herself and show you that she wants the same things as you for the future. Talking to her about your shared future is a great way of bonding with her, and giving her more reasons to go all out to re-establish herself in the marriage.

Obviously, getting out of that job will be a major help to her efforts, and she needs to focus on that as a means of putting distance between herself and the OM as soon as possible.

I say more power to you, 20yrs, and I wish you well with this.

It's quite liberating when you draw a line in the sand, and realize the world doesn't stop rotating, you continue to breath, and your spouse doesn't walk out the door.

It will give you some confidence to move forward and set more boundaries. Which you need to do immediately.

Personally I'd skip setting up an appt w/ therapists, until you see an attorney. Educate yourself, know your rights, then worry about what the next steps are.

sharkman, tushnurse, thanks for the feedback

You still need to see that lawyer. Period.

Personally I'd skip setting up an appt w/ therapists, until you see an attorney. Educate yourself, know your rights, then worry about what the next steps are.

I did see a lawyer just before the d-day confrontation. I contacted multiple lawyers and a mediator. I can go back there but based on my research and discussion with lawyer here are the key points.

- in most circumstances you will seperate for one year before divorce is finalized

- everything in terms of assets and custodies must be worked out and agreed to between both parties

(exception would be phyical abuse or that type of scenario, i would be looking for 50/50 custody most likely if going down this path. and based on discussion with my wife this is what she would agree to... as you pointed out she was not as well informed and actually thought because of the infidelity she could lose the kids. This is not the case and not really a factor at all in divorce here. That is my understanding from the multiple lawyer interviews i had)

For the most part, a common approach (and yes this is a bit of 'bob from accounting') is not to use lawyers as it costs you a lot and you often end up in the same place as you would working with a mediator.

That would be my most likely approach. Its pragmatic I suppose but would be just looking to split everything and move on with my life.

At the moment we are not there and perhaps we won't be. I don't know, just trying to work through this with some dignity and self respect. It has been tough. This whole 'no contact' has been a distraction to some degree from my usual thoughts of anger and doubts about continuing. That is where i need the counselling. I am glad i had the opportunity to have a boundaries discussion and i do want to move forward with the other elements of that plan.

sharkman, totally get this sentiment.

"Ignore that letter my husband had me send. It was so silly wasn't it? I thought that you'd get a good chuckle out of it"

I pictured this happening while she wrote the letter but at same time ,as someone else pointed out I have to have some faith and belief or there is no point to this and just move on now.

If she is really diabolical then i won't feel bad about ending things, but i don't think that is the case. There is no doubt she is capable of doing awful things. We both know that and that is why, for me, the counselling is important. As i noted there are lots of signs of her acting in a more positive and thoughtful manner. Far different than during the affair.

Stevesn just a quick qualifier on the job part.

I'm glad you had a talk but in my opinion what you are missing is that she must leave the job and never have any contact with him again

I get this and it is mandatory for her to get out of that office. It is a large organization and she has had multiple jobs in different locations/ departments.

There are new opportunities every week and she is actively applying for some that will take her out of the city she works in currently and be closer to home. I am willing to let this play out for a little while longer as giving up the lifelong benefits in her career would be costly to our whole family.

She is a high performer and usually gets selected or is in the running for each job she applies to, so I have a good level of confidence this will happen. Obviously if she keeps missing out I will have to assume something is up and would have to re-examine my current position on her job.

I am willing to let this play out for a little while longer as giving up the lifelong benefits in her career would be costly to our whole family.

The problem is, if it goes on much longer, there may not be a "whole family" left to receive those benefits.

Are you willing to bet your M on whether or not her company will transfer her? I wouldn't let it go for much longer. It's been a while already. Even transferred I don't like that she'll still be at the same company. She should be looking outside the company too. Remember you all can relocate if it will save the M.

Your mental health counts for something too in the M and her seeing this guy every day or week constantly affects your psychiatric well being.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 10:37 AM, June 6th (Tuesday)]

20yrsin, even if your wife genuinely wants your life as a family, it will be extremely difficult for her to stay on the right track because her lying and cheating became the core habits of her mundane life. I think you both could benefit from reading "The Power of Habit" by Charles Duhigg. This book might give you an idea of how to make this no-contact and no-cheating work and how to establish new and healthy coping routines for your wife. Otherwise, she might fall back into lying and cheating despite her genuine desire to stop.