My heart almost stopped when someone had bumped my thread. I’m halfway regretting posting it because it’s really fucking scary. Some people are really nice, some are not and some I might not understand are nice. Some of it is good and helps me validate that I'm doing the right things and making the right assumptions and decisions, some just plants poison and suspicion where there maybe should be or should not be. Today I’ve been reading about WWs taking their affairs underground and serial cheaters etc and it has really had my mind racing.
I’m happy to see it’s you, Bigger. You challenge but don’t condemn. And I appreciate that. Thank you!
Despite being a hopeless romantic then I’m also a realist and a math’s- and stat freak. Stats indicate that it takes about 6 months from a trauma before you start to realize you will recover. Then it takes an additional 6 months before it no longer controls your life. The odds are extremely high that 18 months from your decision to divorce chances are you will be fine.
Research also indicates that when queried 12 months after divorce most people say that the reason that led to the divorce could have been settled and express regret at having divorced. Same group asked 24 months after a divorce are overwhelmingly content with the decision to divorce.
I have for the past few weeks been accepting the possibility of this ending up in divorce. I no longer feel shame for that. I’m not going to save it at any cost. I know I can stand tall and I know I will survive. I suppose the question above should rather be if I would be happier with or without her. I guess the question depends on the day. Today I’m not feeling so good and the lure of escaping her and this is appealing. I asked her your questions yesterday if she wanted to spend her life with me and if she saw us having the potential of being the greatest marriage. She answered yes to both.
Then there is reconciliation… With D, you need to reconcile YOURSELF to what’s going on. You need personal recovery. That is done by YOU at YOUR pace. If you R the marriage you need the same work, only your spouse can heavily impact YOUR pace. There is a rule-of-thumb that says it takes 2 years before a couple finally are clear on whether R is working or not.
Remember the health-scare analogy? A few weeks of cardio after getting home from the ICU won’t change you tremendously. You won’t see results tight away. Stick with it and make the diet- and exercise regime permanent and you get results. If you stop after 2 years and go back to burgers and fries you relapse.
R is like that. You don’t see results right away and the changes you make to yourself, your wife makes to herself and the changes you make to your marriage need to be permanent.
Please note that in saying this I am not implying IN ANY WAY that your WW decision to cheat had anything to do with you or the marriage – other in how SHE wrongly saw it.
The task in daunting. I’m aware of the expected time needed but it’s hard to grasp. I read somewhere that whenever things feel bad, compare it to last month. Or last week. Have progress been made? Usually it actually has. It’s hard to imagine living like this for 2 years but then again, things are a lot better now than the first week after DDAY. So maybe they will be better next month too?
I’m not sure how to R myself – maybe that’s what I’m doing. I just don’t know what it looks like. I keep to my workout regimen, I eat (better than before actually) and I’ve learned about myself that I don’t drink in times of crisis. The first weeks I was working so hard on the entire thing and it was like my brain was in hypermode (first week alone, a lot due to insomnia, I think we spent 60-80 hours talking (not healthy)). Lately I haven’t been able to focus as much and it has made progress feel slower. Maybe that’s what propelled me to finally post here – to focus again. Our therapist has expressed some awe of the work I’ve done. She thinks I’ve been incredibly strong and hard working. It feels good to hear but I’m uncertain how much difference it makes.
I know there are things she needs to see change in me. But I don't blame myself for her cheating – during the baby years we had close to a dead bedroom (on her behalf) and I didn’t stray then. That decision lies with the cheater alone. As I see it, when and if we can treat the trauma, I’m very willing to work actively on being a better person. I definitely see the behaviours she doesn’t like so she is not making it all up. I don’t like that when she hits a slump now, it’s often about these issues in me. I don’t like being told to work on myself now, when we should primarily work on her infidelity.
Great she has doubts but why?
If she has doubts because she can’t see you forgiving her then good.
You should make it very clear to her that you take what happened very seriously and you do have your doubts about the viability of reconciliation. But make it clear to her that she can decide to end the marriage if she wants to. You both have that ability. Tell her YOU are fully capable of having your doubts about YOUR ability to reconcile, but that you must trust that she be honest in HER willingness to reconcile.
Go back to how I suggest she is totally free to be with OM. Fact is she does have that freedom. She can do that if she elects to. But not as your wife.
Therefore, you ask her to be honest in HER will to reconcile, and that all she can do is place her trust in you. She can’t worry about your ability, because that is totally dependent on what you want. If she has concerns then all she can do is work harder on her issues and relational issues.
She has doubts for two reasons. She sees her flaws and knows she is prone to shut her feelings down and escape. She has outbursts every now and then, which are tough on me (saying she will move out and live alone because there is no point, etc). We’ve both recognized this persona of hers because it’s very transparent that it’s a coping mechanism. It still hurts but I know it’s not real. She fears she won't be able to give me what I need.
The second is that she said from the start that she knows I will never forgive. She has expressed that she is just waiting for judgement day when everything will be lost and she will be thrown out. I’m NOT telling her that will not happen, I’m merely stating that if she wants to save this, she needs to commit.
I ask her every now and then if she wants this. If she wants me. And so far she has always said yes. I believe her when she says that she had ended the affair because she wanted this, us, me. I haven’t asked her for the last time yet.
If she wanted to and if he insisted… what would happen? For NOW, you need assurances. Ask her what she could do to make you feel safe if he is back again for training. What will happen if she meets him at the parking lot at IKEA six months from now. (Sorry for the weak attempt at humor – BrokenViking and some hints indicate Scandinavia and you guys always go to IKEA…)
She is very clear she wants nothing to do with him. It was very much affair down and she is embarrassed about it. I did ask her today to work on more plans on how to make me safe. Me feeling bad today had me questioning her on a ton of stuff and she was, surprisingly, very patient with me. She had a harder time putting up with my outbursts before but I can tell she is working hard on supporting me.
I have no reason to believe she is in contact with him. No signs of it. No sneaking about. No locked phones. But you know, if you REALLY WANT TO, there is always a way. When can I start trusting again.
I will pick up some meatballs for you next time I'm at IKEA.
And why is she still connected to him in any direct or indirect way?
Another co-worker that seldom posts there (and she rarely uses it herself) had posted a photo with him on it. It doesn’t bother me much. Should I ask her to unfollow and unfriend everybody from her former place of work (he is naturally blocked on everything)?
A KEY issue in R and in IC is understanding why she broke what she KNOWS is a basic moral standard. Replace infidelity with shop-lifting. Would your WW condone stealing, or drunk-driving or not paying bills… If IC can help her with the above and if she has a safe place to get her communications, validations and such then your marriage can/will be pretty safe.
We have discussed that these traits of crossing boundaries have been present for a long time. It flares up in times of crisis but it’s not until now that she has pieced it together. She was drinking a lot at one point, she skipped school a lot for some time in her youth, she dressed provocatively and tried drugs at another point in time. She can now connect dots between all these times.
She is still treating herself; she says it’s painful to have all these insights for her sake because it’s ruining so much of what she thought about herself. She is beginning to see that what she previously thought were strengths are quite the opposite. Her pain is still a lot about her and not me and it’s hard for me. Our therapist is working on getting to the core of these issues in her so she can be more able to help me in healing. I buy it, but I’ve expressed doubts about how long I can stand by (not that I’m not getting ANYTHING, but, you know). I need her to make progress quickly.
True. A generally agreed upon statement is that women cheat for emotional reasons (validation) while men cheat for sex. I think it’s a misunderstanding – men get validation through the conquest of sex so it’s basically BOTH about validation.
Yeah. She has been honest enough to admit that in the beginning the thrill of being with someone else sexually was exciting. It wore off. I’ve even seen texts from her to him dissing his performance. It’s a small comfort.
But the main thing was the validation. He was there all the time, always giving her attention over text. I was at the time unhappy about her passiveness in chores and at home and was not very attentive. It played out so well, he had such perfect timing. I could never compete with him since he could be sweet and caring all the time while I was working my ass off and nagging her about not helping out at home. Still not a reason to cheat, on the contrary. She should have seen how her own behaviour led to MY unhappiness!
Despite (possibly) committing to R then reach out to OMW in a non-confrontational way. Maybe OM has several GF. Maybe he’s mixing things up. Maybe OMW is a nut-case. Maybe your WW is lying. Get the info she offers and look at it seriously. Don’t dismiss it. But base your conclusions on what you can corroborate.
Something is weird about her and just rubs me the wrong way. I’ve stalked her Facebook and on there she is rug sweeping, lots of posts about her wonderful marriage, etc. To each their own I suppose. But the way she spoke to me felt like an attack rather than reaching out, it felt very malicious. And I did ask her to share proof, which she blew off. I haven’t blocked but I haven’t reached out again. I think I will ask her to leave me alone if she doesn’t share something tangible on her own volition. I don’t want to be a pawn in her game (if there is one) because she certainly gave me a lot of head bugs.
I also have a very hard time seeing WHY my WW would lie. The times they could meet are easily defined. And given how she has given up a lot information that is hurtful to me, to her and some of it without me asking, I don’t know why she would keep anything else secret. It feels more likely to be a case of not remembering. I also think that the oBS might be very alone in creating her narrative based on texts and stuff and not from much work between them (this based on WW saying AP is not good at that kind of talking so who knows if that’s true).
