SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Trying to cope

So sorry for you. This is like getting hit over and over.

First blow is finding out about the A. Second blow is the continued lies. Third blow is the road to reconciliation. Fourth blow is healing yourself.

One of the things that has helped me TREMENDOUSLY is getting my power back in the relationship. At DDay2 when I learned his A was still going on I did something I never thought I’d do.

I basically told him to “f” off. And I was now D him!

He begged for another chance. When I relented I demanded a post nup. It was executed one week later. My $ is mine and not marital assets.

I also am no longer a doormat. I stand up to him if I must. I no longer back down.

And st 4 years from DDAY 1 I am very happy. It helps that he has tried to make amends.

But the continued lying after DDay2 and his CYA mentality is what almost caused a D.

And yes I cannot tolerate lying. From anyone. Makes me lose it. Completely.

Best of luck to you. I say do not be afraid to let the crap fly when necessary. I bottled a few things up and 4 years later it came out. I was vicious. (My therapist said I should have done it sooner).

But I had to listen to his lies and crap that “we were disconnected”. And one day I let loose and told him do not tell me how I felt. Ever again. I told him he was disconnected and that was his problem. And no excuse to make a choice to cheat.

Never heard that crap from him again.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 7:49 PM, February 2nd (Friday)]

And for the record my H traveled extensively in his line of work. All over the world.

There was a period of time (50 weeks) where he traveled to the opposite coast. Gone Monday and back on Thursday or Friday.

He was not dealing with kids or sick children or homework on a regular basis. I made his life easy. Real easy. He did not pay bills or taxes or do anything with our finances.

He did not do any yard work or car repairs.

He played ball every saturday morning. Golf on weekends if possible. I never complained. I recognized he worked hard and tried to make his life easy.

And he cheated b/c in his words ”I did not support him”

What a bunch of crap. So while you were home and a bit stressed at times - my H was not home. He had less stress.

Point is the cheaters will use any means to justify the A.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 7:50 PM, February 2nd (Friday)]

Yeah - it takes two. Two people who put themselves before their spouses and family. Two selfish people who have no conscious. We are the collateral damage.

And we have to pick up the pieces. It sucks. It hurts. It is a roller coaster from Hell you can't get off of.

I'm sorry you are here. Please keep visiting. SI has helped me immensely.

She must face consequences, even if it's painful for the both of you. She should disclose every detail of the affair, including sex acts. Have her take a poly, even if she's telling the truth. She should be tested for std's. Have her write a letter of apology to obs. Force her to move out for a week to give you time to think.

Discuss a post-nup.

Yes, it'll all be humiliating. But those are concrete, tangible consequences of the affair.

She's gotten off relatively unscathed.

Thanks for the advise. I just have some concerns with a few of the suggestions. I know they're well-intended, and I really do appreciate the sharing of different ideas.

Postnups... This is a kind of hard one. The reason why I say this is because although there is still a whole lot of resentment over her poor decision, in my opinion, that to me seems like you are admitting that you will never trust them again. Is that really what we want in a partner? I want to have that relationship where I trust someone because of a Mutual value placed in a relationship, not just because of a possible Financincial failure. The house? She could keep it. I was packing up and getting ready to leave anyway. I can rebuild pretty easily thanks to my current employment.

Although she hurt me, before this happened, she was a wonderful wife and mother. I will say that during this time frame of the PA, that obviously wasn't the case. I believe that the old wife is in there, and she really wants to put this crisis behind both of us.

Of course, saying that is the easy part. Achieving the peace that we so desperately need is so much harder. If you would have suggested this immediately after D day, my opinion could have been swayed very easily towards a more "punishment" type arrangement. At times, when I am internally crying, I think about what I could have done to her as a retribution to the pain I still feel, but I believe that more of me would die from that, and my kids would be collateral damage in this whole mess.

We do have deep talks, and she confesses that she wonders if she will ever not see herself as dirty and unworthy of being loved. She has her share of pain too over her poor choices. It's not easy to be supportive to her emotions when mine are in such a mess.

It just sucks. It's a horrible place to be. I try to be strong for everyone, but my car knows the secrets. The tear stains on the seats don't lie.

Oh, and once again, I sincerely appreciate the feedback from the men AND women who are in this crisis themselves, or those who have made it out with most of their souls, and self respect in tact.

MD - I am going to give you a gentle 2x4, not to be offensive but to clarify the lens you are looking through. Trust me i went through a divorce.

Right now, you are so hopeful and optimistic you can R. And to that end, you are hoping to prevent the further poliution as you see it of the M by limiting what you perceive as trust boundaries. In a way you are shoveling it under the rug. The reality of this is that you have learned that you shouldn’t trust no one 100 percent, not even your wife before she cheated, and especially not now. Wish we had known back then huh?

A post nupnisnt a barrier to trust or R. It’s a safe guard. Not to keep her from cheating, but to demonstrate to you her level of commitment to you. It won’t say “in the event of another affair” it will just give you a healthier but still fair division division of assets and no alimony to her regardless of why you divorce. It proves to you, that regardless of the outcome of your marriage, she understand this is what she deserves, and will happily accept the terms to keep you.

It has the secondary benefit of. Protecting your ass in the event of a divorce. You may be surprised how nasty people get when pushncomes to shove and the reality of supporting themselves sets in. Bouquets turn to bitches quick and it is brutal. She’s is sweet now, but she is capable of bending you over in a divorce and i have seen it.

A post nup isn’t conditionally forcing her to stay, it’s allowing you to. Gotta see it like that and please trust me, If you do go down the divorce road, you will be happy you did it. Trust is earned, and this is a step towards it, not a step back.

As for the shame and guilt she has, it cannot be allowed to impede how she treats you. Just because she feels unworthy right now, doesn’t mean she should be building walls of intimacy between you or telling you she is not ready. That’s not remorse or empathy. Kindly, she has to work through her problems, be happy younstayed, and suck it up for your sake. You are allowed to heal at your needs righ now, hers can come later.

You aren't alone. I think many women have a high expectation for life that doesnt exist unless it is in a ficticsous relationship with no responsibilies. I am 7 months out and some days I don't know how I get out of bed. Hang in there.

An affair is inexcusable.

Tell her to write down her reasons for the deceit. If she comply, she's unremorseful because, again, there are no excuses.

The1stwife, boys some of what you say resonate! I can't claim that I was the one that was at home with the kids all the time, because I too have to travel occasionally for my job as. My job does provide enough flexibility to allow me to stay home whenever I need to, so with that in mind, I'm the one that's home with the children if they're sick. The part that resonates with me though is how we are reality. We are the ones that pay the bills, take care of the children, and deal with household issues. The AP gets to take the WS to a fantasy land where that stuff doesn't exist. There are no responsibilities in that relationship. Just constant validation of how great the WAS is. How does one compete with a fantasy?

Sorry if I singled you out for that, but as I said, a lot of what you said really struck a nerve. As for everyone else, I do appreciate your advice. Even though stuff that I may not agree with, at least it plants a seed that I should be taking care of myself instead of focusing on the relationship. I should be doing my part to cover my butt so I never feel so blindsided. I do miss my Rose Colored Glasses though, and have battled with the idea that I would have been better off had I not even known. Even wrestling with that idea, I'm still still dealing with the Fallout of having to find out about her infidelity through someone else. She didn't have the courage or moral integrity to come clean to me. She was afraid of my anger. She doesn't like conflict, which I can understand, and although I may not readily admit it, I know that I do have a short fuse. I'm never physical, but for someone who is afraid of conflict, I'm sure it is still pretty scary.

I'm still not really a hundred percent sure what I want to do. Most of me wants to stay, but there is a part of me that asks why I would want to share my life with someone who had so little respect. I'm not exactly Brad Pitt, but I know what qualities I bring into relationship, and although I'm sure she could find a lot more Partners short-term, I would have no problem finding someone in more of a long-term relationship. I'm sorry if this sounds sexist, but women can have a one-night stand every night if they wanted to. Finding a man who is willing to extend that past one night is the goal, and I've always been very loyal, obviously to a fault.

Thank you once again for all the advice and actually reading through all of my ramblings.

Men are trained to ignore feelings, but we're human, and we can learn to be with our feelings despite our training. Remember, we have our feelings; they do not have us.

Real feelings, as powerful as they can be, come and go quickly. We can navigate them the way we want to - sometimes skimming the surface, sometimes diving deep. We can often learn to put them aside for the moment and return to them later.

IMO, being betrayed brings on grief, anger, fear, and shame. Those feelings are just responses to the A and to d-day. I've been taught to let them flow through my body. That also lets them flow out of my body, never to return.

3 things to remember: 1) being betrayed bring LOTS of feelings, so it takes a long time to process them. At first, it may seem that you'll never heal, but if you start and keep going, the A-related feelings will almost completely disappear. Triggers are always possible, but they get get less and less frequent (I can't remember the last one for me), and less and less powerful.

2) New events can bring grief, anger, fear, shame, joy, love - so releasing the A-related feelings doesn't mean you'll never feel bad again.

3) The ability to feel awful is the same as the ability to feel joy and love. You can't feel great unless you can feel awful, IMO.

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IMO, R is a process of building an M that serves both of you. You both need to live mindfully and consciously create the M you want.

That means, at the very least, that you have to raise issues as they arise. If you're unhappy with something in your M, it's YOUR job to figure out what you want and to ask for it.

Your W may have another view. If she does, you need to resolve the issue in a way that works for both of you. In successful Rs, issues are addressed; they aren't allowed to fester.

It takes guts to be in an M, to stand up for yourself and to take your W into account, too.

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As you move through R, if you build the new M that serves you both, I think you'll come to recognize how strong and courageous you are, and I think you'll feel enough joy. You'll see that you're getting what you want. For me, at least, getting what I want is enough to resolve my early questions about being a wimp.

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I suggest reading this: http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/healing_library/reconciliation/what-every-wayward-spouse-needs-to-know.asp.

I also suggest printing it off and asking your W to read and discuss it. I suggest saying you found it on the web, without saying your joined SI.

Ask yoru questions. I recommend especially asking the questions that scare you - don't hide from potential deal breakers. Why waste months or years in'R' only to find a deal breaker down the line?

Postnups... This is a kind of hard one. The reason why I say this is because although there is still a whole lot of resentment over her poor decision, in my opinion, that to me seems like you are admitting that you will never trust them again. Is that really what we want in a partner? I want to have that relationship where I trust someone because of a Mutual value placed in a relationship, not just because of a possible Financincial failure. The house? She could keep it. I was packing up and getting ready to leave anyway. I can rebuild pretty easily thanks to my current employment.

I suggested it for three reasons:

1, To protect yourself in case other dude is her 'soulmate' and she is just bidding time for alimony's sake.

2, to directly combat feelings of being used for your wallet.

3, as a guage that you can apply to see some more of her intentions.... i.e. if she balks at the suggestion, what does that mean?

Ultimately, though, combating situational depression is your #1 priority at the moment.

I feel like I've lost a lot of dignity in this situation

Why did you lose your dignity? There is no shame in being a faithful, loving, trusting partner. The loss of dignity is all hers. There are beautiful supermodels (rich, successful, beautiful) who have had spouses cheat on them. It’s not about what is wrong with you, it’s about what is wrong with them.

Please read the healing library if you haven’t already. It may give you some answers to the questions swirling in your mind.

I won’t give you advice about the post-nup in your situation, but I will say that it was empowering in my situation to signal to my WH that infidelity was a deal-breaker and that he had risked the survival of our marriage. In my case, I threw him out of the house and told him I wasn’t interested in MC; I started IC “to explore if I wanted to stay married or not.” WH are working through R now, but realizing how angry I was opened his eyes.

I totally get the "loss of dignity" part (actually all the rest as well). I feel so disrespected and totally emasculated by this. I have urges to go meet the AP and break my foot off in his ass... or bang his wife... anything to reclaim my pride/manhood. I am just trying to repress these emotions (also the legal consequences and his wife is not attractive), because in the end they won't be productive and this wasn't about me/my manhood to begin with. By any objective measure I'm more of a man than AP... but those feelings are still there.

I've found some Buddhist teachings regarding anger to be helpful in at least understanding why these emotions are not constructive, I would imagine Jesus could do the same for you. In time I'll reclaim what was mine... or I'll find someone else who won't disrespect me. (hopefully lol, never saw this one coming)

Man the "fantasy land" post really hits home too. They were coworkers (well still are, but a Chinese Wall of sorts is now in place until she finds a new job) who traveled around the world and the country together. They were tacking on a couple extra days to the trips (and at least once making up the business necessity of the trip altogether) and staying in romantic places all over the globe. Staying in the finest hotels and dining in the finest restaurants. Shopping for lingerie together, giving gifts... jeez I'm getting sick typing this. No responsibilities to each other outside of that. Not having to deal with real life in any way. Meanwhile I was the one at home taking care of the kid, house, everything else most of the time as well as working a full time job making as much as she did (but spending it on our family).

You're right, there is no way to compete with a fantasy. Just hoping she realizes it was a fantasy I guess... if not R is going to fail miserably. I'm also really jealous that she had the chance to experience that bliss... while denying me anything close to it at home.

[This message edited by Lazarus at 12:36 PM, February 3rd (Saturday)]

The loss of dignity I feel is because I stayed. In essence, I'm staying with someone that hurt me so badly, and it was her choice to do it. She disrespected me, and broke a promise you made to me and to God and all of our families.

In a strange way, I must feel like a hypocrite. If one of my friends came up to me in the same situation, I would have told him or her that they should not stay in that situation. That they weren't valued as a partner in life, and they should move on. Yet, here I am.

Staying was very hard for me. I can't even guarantee that I'm going to stay long-term. Walking away was the Easy Choice. Not only would it have been easy, but it would be hard for someone to say that I wasn't Justified. I know that I won't feel like this forever, but I do feel like I've sacrificed my happiness and self-worth for the betterment of my family. A family that during the A, my normally loving wife and wonderful mother to my children totally gave up on. She actually said that she gave up on me.

I guess I had to make a hard choice. Do what makes me happy or do what is the right thing to do. In this case, as of right now, I don't know if they're both the same. I do hope that in time, I could be one of the people that post the wonderful inspirational story about how this has made us grow stronger... Right now I don't feel so strong though.

You can walk away tomorrow or next week or next month or next year and still be justified. And you are not weak for wanting to stay.

If this happened to your parents and they worked through it would it be weakness?

In a strange way, I must feel like a hypocrite. If one of my friends came up to me in the same situation, I would have told him or her that they should not stay in that situation. That they weren't valued as a partner in life, and they should move on. Yet, here I am.

Trying2copeinMD - I couldn't have said it better myself. And yet here I am. Trying for the "greater good". Trying so I can look at myself in the mirror every morning choking back tears of inadequacy and tell myself I'm giving it everything I have for the sake of others.

Trying to Cope,

Sorry to read of your situation, not sure if I missed it, but who was her affair partner? You mentioned mutual friends? Was it someone you knew as well? Just curious how he fits into the equation?

Take care of yourself.

Jman

I'd like to suggest that you click on the Amazon link and get a copy of How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair. Or you can google it, and download the free PDF file.

Yes, it's aimed at Waywards, but as a BS (Betrayed Spouse), I found it amazingly helpful too. Because it let me know that all of the crazy, mixed up feelings and disorientation that I felt, was absolutely normal. Utterly normal, for the level of trauma that infidelity inflicts. It also gives you a good idea of what a remorseful vice regretful spouse looks like. For the Wayward who is committing themselves to trying to reconcile their marriage, it's an excellent primer on what to expect and specific actions that they should commit to, to earn that gift. Smart Waywards will read it again and again. It may be a short read, but there's a lot packed in there that will reveal its self with time.

BTW, have you read The Healing Library yet? You can find the link to it in the upper left corner of the screen, in the yellow box that's by Dr. Phil. There's an amazing amount of really good information there written by experienced people. Including the abbreviations we use here.

I know that you are hesitant about posting in JFO, and that's fine. If you're more comfortable here, then stay. However at some point, you're going to need to vent and dump anger in a way that might trespass the rules of this particular forum. I invite you to check out the General forum as a backup!

And welcome.