Hi Seateasea,
I am glad to see an update from you. I wondered how you were doing, and I was going to post in your thread to ask. Thank you for your kind words, I am glad if anything I wrote was helpful.
What you write is very positive, particularly for being just a month out:
“She has been a great wife for the past 34 years and I would hate to throw those years away over her huge mistake in 1983. She has been very supportive of me all these years and has given me no other reason to doubt her faithfulness since that time.”
It is quite possible that your wife got over whatever caused her to cheat back then, and decided to commit properly to the marriage, without you knowing anything about it at the time. I thought it was interesting that in your original post you mention your wife went to the bar with a married friend of hers. Without making any excuses or blame-shifting, I do wonder what kind of influence that friend was on your wife. If she was married, and she was keen to go to bars to be picked up, she was possibly a bad influence, or at least a co-conspirator.
There are many threads here in which wives can get new female friends and end up going off the rails due to their influence. Again, and to emphasise this, I am not saying that to take any responsibility off your wife; I am just saying that her friend was definitely not a friend to the marriage, and clearly toxic to her own marriage too. Just out of curiosity, did your wife stay in touch with that ‘friend’, or did she drop her? It is not uncommon for people to realise when someone is a bad influence, and that might have occurred to your wife at some point.
“We both want to reconcile and she is doing pretty well in giving me the support I need. She could do better so I have told her what I need. Again this happened so long ago and she had put it in her past that she doesn't know exactly what I need, but we're working on it. She has been very patient with me and has not shown anger towards me when I say things to her that probably hurt and hurt bad. She says she understands my pain that she has put upon me. It’s been a month since D-day and I must say that each day does get a little easier. The mental images and movies have decreased immensely and are not as painful. I had thought she had done certain things with him and she swears that she did not and I believe her.”
The thing is, we cannot expect a wayward partner to be an absolute genius, a mind-reader, or an expert at rebuilding relationships. It was only when I found these forums that I saw that there are a range of established methods and techniques that can be used to remedy the problems that follow infidelity, particularly where issues of trust are concerned. I can see the sense in all of them, even if some do not apply to every situation, but there is no way I would have thought of them all by myself. So, just as getting over infidelity is a new thing for you (despite how long ago it happened), helping someone get over infidelity is just as new for your wife. Both of you are learning how to do it, and what works for you, but what is positive is how committed your wife is to the process, and how she has taken ownership of everything.
It is good that your wife is empathetic about the pain you are going through, and what that pain makes you say sometimes. I said stuff like that too, sometimes very loudly, and it was like the stuff had a life of its own and just burst out of my mouth of its own accord. Sometimes I felt bad about it, and other times I thought, “Bullshit, she deserves it”, but I did try and rein it in after a while, because other than venting a bit of pressure, it really did no good. And I knew I was saying things in the worst possible way, in the worst possible language, because I wanted to hurt my WS, and punish her.
It took a while of doing that for me to see that it was not making anything better, and that it was actually impeding our attempts to heal, which was what we were trying to do. So my words were spoiling the reconciliation that I wanted, and once I realised that, the urge to deliver verbal punishment dissipated, and finally went away. Getting over infidelity is a journey for both people involved, and sometimes we have to work through certain things to make progress, even if some of those things turn out to be counter-productive.
One thing I used to do was catch myself when I felt myself building up for an outburst, and ask myself, “Haven’t I said that already? Why say it again?” Questioning it that way helped me get some control over the impulse to cause verbal bloodshed, and was helpful in managing the anger. Another thing that helped me get over that stage of it was the fact that my WS also took it all without arguing, because that proved to me that she had taken ownership of what she did, and understood why I was so upset about it. It was like it confirmed that we both had the same opinion of her behaviour, we were just coming at it from different places. That mattered a lot to me. It wasn’t pretty, but raw emotions rarely are.
“One of the things that bother me is that I had thought I was her only sex partner for the past 36 years since our marriage in 1981. Now know I'm not. She is my first and only sex partner and in a somewhat perverse way I am envious of her for having had the affair and for experiencing another man. Does that sound stupid?”
I think those thoughts occur to the majority of people who are one another’s first sexual partner, or when experience of ‘playing the field’ is limited. There is nothing stupid about it, it is entirely natural, and many people have posted about exactly the same thing. What can add power to those thoughts is the sense of injustice, or even a desire for revenge, particularly if a betrayed spouse has had opportunities to cheat, but stopped themselves from doing it, which is how you describe your situation.
“I have always wondered what it would be like with someone else and at one point we had even discussed this issue. She said she was not curious at all about being with another man (since we now know that she had been with another man), that seems to have taken the curiosity out her. But for me it has always been an issue. I had told her that I had always wished that I had had more sexual experiences before we were married but since I knew that she had had only me, I was OK with just having one partner.”
It is interesting that this subject came up between you before the infidelity was known about, because it means it is unrelated to it. Many couples experience variations on this theme, where one or both partners have limited experience. In fact, I sometimes wonder if it is the reason why some affairs happen. Although you did not know about the affair, it seems like this was something that your wife worked through early on in the marriage, and – hopefully – got it out of her system. It is quite possible that she had the same feelings of curiosity, and maybe her friend back then gave her a load of, “Why not live life to the max?” bullshit, and some of that crap may have sunk in. Whatever happened, it seems like your wife got through that stage without you being aware of the process, and the curiosity that you expressed later became a sleeping dragon because you felt both of you were equal when it came to experience of others. However, finding out about the affair has woken the dragon…
“Now that I know she has had another partner I am envious. I want to know what someone else feels like, smells like, tastes like, but now at my age (57) I don't see that ever happening. I sometimes think that if I would have revenge sex to gain that experience I would not be as upset with her affair. Isn't it strange how our minds work when we have to deal with all this crap?”
The whole subject of revenge affairs runs almost constantly in the background in these forums, because so many betrayed spouses end up feeling like they want one. The general consensus seems to be that they often make things worse, despite the way they seem like a logical way to restore some balance in a relationship. You cheated, so I will cheat. Why must I be goody two-shoes, while you go on the rampage? And the anger and the sense of injustice starts to build all over again…It happens to so many people, and it is very, very predictable. And it is a natural reaction, even if it has considerable potential negative consequences.
It reminds me of something that would be politically incorrect now, but which was common parlance back when I was a kid in the early 1970s (I am 52, by the way!) Parents back then would tell their children that if a kid in the playground hit them, they should hit that kid right back. The thinking behind it was that it would ward off bullies, but it was basically a like-for-like, tit-for-tat response.
I remember hearing a great quote many years about how if we follow the rule about ‘an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth’, we will all end up blind and toothless! I guess that mutual infliction of damage would achieve a form of balance and equality, but the point is that a quest for vengeance can turn into a drive to the bottom, in which we all end up in the same crappy state together, several rungs down the ladder from where we used to be. And just to remind ourselves of where you are at the moment, this is what you yourself said:
“She has been a great wife for the past 34 years and I would hate to throw those years away over her huge mistake in 1983. She has been very supportive of me all these years and has given me no other reason to doubt her faithfulness since that time. We both want to reconcile and she is doing pretty well in giving me the support I need.”
With apologies for using coarse language for maximum impact, but how will that process be helped by you banging other women? It is going to be very hard to reconcile successfully if you are simultaneously looking to cheat, isn’t it? And while for you, in your darker moments, it might seem like well-deserved revenge on your wife for her affair, what kind of reward would your revenge sex seem like to your wife for all the efforts she is making to try and help you heal? It would be a like a punch in the face, wouldn’t it? That won’t help either of you heal, and it just might derail the whole process. And that is not something that you want, is it?
It may well be that you do not have any serious intentions of straying, but the thoughts are occurring to you, so I think that discussing them at this point could be useful.
My first thought is that at the moment your mind is still in turmoil, as you are only a month out from D-Day. The ‘folk wisdom’ in these forums is that people should not make big decisions about the discovery of infidelity for at least six months, to allow their emotions and thought processes to stabilise, and it is easy to see the sense in that. So just in case you have thoughts of going bar-hopping, consulting the back pages of Craigslist, or starting an account on the Ashley Madison website, my advice is to hold your horses and not give in to feelings that you may not have in six months’ time, because there are all kinds of negative consequences that can come from pursuing hidden revenge sex, and even from consensual ‘swinging’.
If we move away from the negative anger and bitterness that drive hidden revenge affairs, maybe we can think about what would happen if, as part of the healing process, your wife was to offer you a ‘hall pass’ to satisfy your curiosity, detached from any elements of vengeance. She might never do that, but I think it is good to think these things through, to add some perspective to the whole issue of curiosity. And there is a lot to think about.
What if you go with another woman and she is not great in bed? Will that satisfy you, or will you want to try more, until you find a ‘good’ one?
What if you go with a woman who is spectacular, and who introduces you to a bunch of new things that you had never thought of, or stuff that you wanted to try with your wife, but she did not want to do them? Is that going to make you feel like the other woman is ‘better’ than your wife? What if you really enjoy them, and decide you cannot live without them in future? Are you going to tell your wife that the other woman had no problem doing X, Y, and Z, and you really enjoyed it. How is that going to make your wife feel? Will she end up doing X, Y, and Z too, just to keep up with her competitor, while not enjoying it?
You sound like a good guy, and I don’t think you would ever want someone to do something they didn’t want to do, but what if your wife made herself do them, and only admitted that she hated doing those things later on? I think you would be angry with yourself, even if we say that she could have spoken up and still refused to do those things. However, can you see the kind of dynamic that could occur, where your wife ends up with a competitor, particularly if you came home raving about the other women’s performance?
Yes, we know what happened in the past, but if you ever do get involved with another woman, it would be best for your marriage if you do so openly, and without any element of revenge. Actually, I think what would be best for your marriage is to work on it, and not start bringing other people into it. The last thing you want is to pour fuel on what could be embers of resentment, or to turn your marriage into some kind of grudge fight or sexual vendetta. I know that you might not begin something with that aim, but you would be surprised how those emotions and elements can creep in and establish themselves before we realise it.
And then, of course, there is the ‘biggie’: what would you say if your wife wants to turn the marriage into an ‘open’ relationship, so that both of you can have ‘adventures’? Or would it just be you who has the ‘hall pass’ to be with other people? And even if your wife agreed to a ‘hall pass’ for you, would she be doing so willingly and happily, or (1) because she felt she couldn’t say no, given what happened in the past, or (2) because she hoped it would help you heal, even if she hated it?
I know there is an element where we might say, “Tough luck, sweetheart, you started this, and I’m just playing catch-up!”, but what would a dynamic like that do to the relationship (and to both of you) long-term? A relationship really should not degenerate into one-upmanship, or tit-for-tat point-scoring, because that will wear both of you down. And for ‘swinging’ or open relationships to work, it really needs two people to be on the same place on the same page for arrangements like this to work, and even if you were at that place at a certain point, you might both have different views six months further down the line.
And another biggie: what happens if you start to fall for the other woman? What would happen if you and your wife go through a rough patch, and simultaneously, you are involved with another woman who is being nice as pie to you, and doing lots of wild stuff in the bedroom just to please you? Where would your head and your heart be in a situation like that?
Then, what happens if your wife feels that you have been with another woman, or other women, for long enough, but you are having too much fun, and you don’t want to stop? I have known a couple where something like that happened, and it ended up destroying the relationship. We have to be careful when we prise open Pandora’s box; we can find that getting what we want may mean losing what we had.
Beyond that, how would you feel about yourself? At the moment, the idea of being with someone else may be tantalising and exciting. Fantasies always are. Reality can be very different. Instead of thinking about how excited you might be anticipating a hook-up with another woman, try to imagine how you would feel going home afterwards and looking your wife in the eye. If that thought makes you feel sick, or ashamed, then I would urge you not to get involved in any adventures with third parties. Would you really walk through the front door with a spring in your step and a smile on your face, or would you feel like you had fired a rocket at your marriage?
Are the potential risks and pitfalls really worth it to have connection-free sex with someone you barely know?
Are the potential risks and pitfalls really worth it to have sex with another woman that you know, feel a connection with, and who you could end up falling for? How would you deal with it if she feel for you, and kept pursuing you, while you wanted her to cease and desist?
Are you 100% sure you would feel alright in yourself about having ‘adventures’?
Are you 100% sure your wife would be alright with you having ‘adventures’, or might she just be going along with it (for various reasons) while not liking it?
Are you 100% sure you could have sex with another woman once, or a few times, and then just stop, ‘cold turkey’ style, and never feel tempted again? What if your wife agreed to giving you a ‘hall pass’ for a one-time encounter, and then at some point in future, some attractive woman comes on to you? Would you resist, or would you think, “What the hell, I went with that other woman and the world didn’t end. Why shouldn’t I go with this one?”
Life is not an R rated movie. It is extremely rare that people have ‘encounters’ without it affecting them, their thinking, and their relationships. What worries me is that satisfying your curiosity could end up damaging the marriage, damaging the dynamic that exists between you and your wife, damaging her, and damaging you, leaving you feeling ‘dirty’. Emotions are complex things, and sometimes there are consequences that we cannot imagine when we embark on some journeys.
Honestly, having reached the age of 57 knowing only your wife sexually, I would ask you to think about how essential it is for you to be with someone else. I am not saying that it might not be fun, or satisfy curiosity, but there are all kinds of pitfalls that can occur, even with things that start off being ‘casual’. That is why I ask if it is essential for you, or just one of those things that might be interesting, but which you can live without. Moreover, given that you want to reconcile and heal the relationship, I think that the timing could not be worse to start being intimate with other people.
Apologies for rambling on at such length, but I wanted to add some perspective to the idea that a revenge affair or making an agreement with your wife that you can go with other women will be some kind of trouble-free magical cure for the pain that you are feeling. In truth, it could just lead to more pain, and the eventual disintegration of a relationship that you both want to save.
As a closing thought, I have this: why not devote your energies for the next six months or a year to rebuilding and improving things with your wife, and see if that works. If it works, you will have a good relationship. You will be happy, and hopefully you won’t feel the need for other women. If it does not work, you can break up, and you will then be free to go tom-catting around as much as you like, with a different woman every night. You cannot do the two things simultaneously, so why not try the fixing first, and keep the sexual adventure quest as a consolation option if the fix does not succeed?
Wishing you all the best, brother.
