SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I know it is hard going through all this, but does it matter? speaking from experience an affair is an affair, the pain, anger, distrust, are all the same. The real question is are you getting help? Even if your spouse won't go with you, therapy is to help you heal. Take care of you, then the relationship.

Yes the long kiss makes it a physical affair. This was an expression of emotional intimacy and tenderness which belongs only to the husband or wife.

Wow! I have been gas lighted really well. Thank you for confirming something I was afraid to say out loud. My husbands affair was not only emotional, he cheated on me physically too. He can believe what he wants and tell our kids what he wants but I am not alone in knowing that it was both.

You're not wrong. This is a physical affair. Considering how long it took to go from a quick peck to a passionate tongue kiss, I'm wondering if there is still TT going on and you still don't know everything? Polygraphs are unreliable. I didn't know how unreliable until I started watching all the murder shows on the ID channel. People pass them all the time and it turns out they committed the crime they were being questioned about.

A good rule of thumb is if they had desire + opportunity then it probably went as far as we all think. In this case there was desire + opportunity.

[This message edited by CincyKid at 11:28 AM, April 10th (Tuesday)]

Keep in mind, polygraphs are not 100% reliable, anyway.

I feel a little strange posting this but...a polygraph does not mean that much. YOU know your husband, and you know how good a liar he is. But I can tell you this much: in grad school we learned exactly how easy it is to scam a polygraph.

I mean, do his explanations for why he didn't have sex with her make sense?

What makes it work?

He took the test 3 times.

First, passed question about no sex since marriage. Failed other two.

Second, 2 questions. Passed one, other inconclusive

Third, passed.

With the last one, he came in, told the tester he had to be somewhere so didn't need for the tester to go over the whole process. Took the test, passed.

My husband is such a good liar, he believes himself. He seems really confused most of the time, like he can't focus. I think he has ADD but doctors say he doesn't. Its like he can't even see he is lying. Like he really can't help it. Like he is a child...

IMHO holding hands crosses the line to pa

French kissing is definitely a pa in my opinion

Thinks is, it doesn’t matter what we think or even him, you see it as a pa and so it is.

He is trying to minimize-don’t let him.

If they lie well enough to truly believe their own lies then they can pass a LDT. Alot of it also has to do with their mental definitions of sex and how the question is phrased. For many I have talked to about this the questioner had to be very graphic and explicit. Did your penis/mouth touch or enter any other vagina or vaginal area than the woman you are married to during the years you were married? You then have to decide what is your deal breaker and start the questioning there. Is it kissing, french kissing, holding hands....

To me an EA is a friendship where touch is incidental - casual, not intentional and the affair part is the amount of sharing and emotional investment they have in this person that takes the place of interaction with the spouse.

My closest friend is a man. We have been friends since our crib days. We call, write, visit and know each person's likes and dislikes but we don't share the intimate details of our marriages, we don't infringe on time with our partners to be with each other and we would not chose each other over our spouse though we did have an agreement that if we hit 35 and hadn't gotten married or weren't in a relationship headed that direction we would. We get along that well.

WH would tell you his closest friend is a woman. He claims EA but they not only shared the intimate details of their lives, they "stole" time from their primary relationships to spend with each other. Their touch was not casual or incidental. It was meant to be provoking and leading. And lead it did. Straight into a PA if you define that as anything including and beyond hand holding or kissing. IMO it was a PA from the start. Some would say it didn't become one until they physically touched. Well, where do you draw that line. When he handed her the pen to sign off on repairs or when he held the door for her and held her elbow as she walked through? Both happened the first time they met. Both were intentional and he does neither for me. Not then and not now. That makes it something more than just being gentlemanly otherwise he would behave the same toward me. Hell, he'll offer the neighbors wife a jacket before me when I am shivering and she isn't. That neighbor's husband escorts her here if they know he is home.

My H had a 6 month EA. They became besties, soulmates, twin flames, etc. They talked for hours each day. My H went out of town and I got a quick 3 minute call one night. They talked for 3 hours that eventually turned into phone sex. They talked each other through sex acts until they each climaxed. They did that three nights in a row and two days after he returned from the trip they were in her bed starting a three month intense sexual A. I considered that it went PA on the trip while they had phone sex.

I think the reason they didn't have sex is because the first time they met, it was at her parents house (which was like meeting in the middle) AND my son had gone along with my WH. They did go for a walk and I would not be surprised if they didn't hold hands. I'm sure they hugged. That was the first time they had seen each other since they were teens.

The second time they met, she arranged a camping trip with her unsuspecting husband close to our area. WH met AP there but they had a very short time frame so that her husband would not suspect anything out of the ordinary. I didn't suspect either since my husband likes to be out and about most of the time.

My WH had EAs with 4 women. 3 were completely via text/FB due to distance. The last one was local and I think that’s what scared him out of it. He insists that it was his love for me but I feel certain that her proximity made him realize that it could easily become a PA. IDK for sure but that’s certainly how it seems to me...