SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

My husband says he had an emotional affair. It comes across as it wasn't as bad as a physical affair. It was mostly long distance. She was also married. They met twice. they didn't have sex. They did meet, walk on the beach, and French kiss. He has taken a polygraph so he truly did not have sex with her. the emotional affair and all that came out during it (1.5 years) was devastating in itself. After finding out they also French kissed (not a quick kiss on the lips which is what he said for 5 years) I see his affair as more than emotional. Am I wrong? Does intercourse turn it into a physical affair?

The kiss makes it physical.

[This message edited by Jorge at 1:02 AM, April 9th (Monday)]

Sex or not would he feel the same if he saw you in the same circumstance?

I think the kiss pushed it across the line. But for me, holding hands, cuddling, back or foot rubs, lots of hugging . . . all foreplay and all on the line, all leaning toward PA.

Learningtofly, our experiences are similar. My WH has an A with exGF from many many years ago. It was also long distance so majority was an EA. They meet twice which included kissing and groping (yep also have proof of no sexual intercouse) and I consider his A to be a PA.

I think the PA side was only limited due to distance, time and opportunity. If they lived in the same place I believe it would have been more. My WH swears differently of course

It’s all cheating. It’s a Physical Affair the second they have any physical contact in my opinion.

They kissed. Yup it’s “officially “ a physical A.

They kissed. Yup it’s “officially “ a physical A.

This!

I think his denial of a PA is the textbook example of gaslighting: referring to a thing that is obvious and suggesting that you are off base.

They are not called fornication affairs (FA) or intercourse affairs (IA) or oral sex affairs (OSA), they are PA's. Plain and simple. No need to question your rational and logical definition of that.

Were they physical. That is indisputable. It was a PA. The difference between an EA and a PA may not matter to many people. But if one thinks it matters enough to classify it as one or the other, it was clearly a PA. There was a physical connection purposefully made in order to reinforce their emotional or hormone driven connection.

Of course it was physical. How that matters to you is up to you. It is his remorseless denial of truth that is the issue. I would tell him this topic is off the table for debate.

Got the same with my WW. Almost the exact same circumstances. She doesn't consider it an affair. That would be terrible. I completely do. The long term lying is also hugely destructive.

When 2 people lock their lips together for more than a second, that is physical and you don't do that with anyone but your partner. It's inappropriate.

I guess think of it this way. If you gave your mum a hug and a kiss, what would be totally OK and natural and what would be totally NOT OK?

[This message edited by Lawyerman at 12:16 PM, April 23rd (Monday)]

When it becomes physical in any manner.

So, they met twice, walked on the beach together and kissed. Yep, there was physical contact. That, in my book, is a PA.

Like Lawyerman, my wife initially denied that even the EA was enough to call it an A. Lawyerman's WW said she kissed a couple of times but because there was no sex, it wasn't even an A.

My wife even swore to me that there was nothing physical. And I found out on my own that they met up (all but cementing the physical nature of the A through circumstantial evidence that she later confessed).

Short version of this...It was a PA and your H is trying to minimize and do damage control.

It was a PA if just walking and holding hands. Would they do that in front of the spouse(s)? Would they approve if their spouse(s) did the same? French kissing - yeah, that's just friends. NOT.

Definitely PA. And minimizing to claim otherwise.

I agree with the others that the kissing makes it a PA, and that WH is likely minimizing. I think it's a PA but not a sexual affair. Likely WH is choosing to equate physical affair with sexual affair.

I believe almost all EAs eventually turn physical then sexual if not intercepted. I think the only ones that wouldn't would be those that are long distance where they don't have opportunity to meet, like maybe a cross country online affair?

I think the kiss makes it PA.

I considered mine a PA when it moved towards inappropriate facetime. Hadn't touched in person, but that to me is when it crossed over.

It comes across as it wasn't as bad as a physical affair.

This is it -- it makes it seem not "as bad". However, an affair, regardless of the exact details, is a betrayal and a massive emotional wound.

not a quick kiss on the lips which is what he said for 5 years

While the kiss takes the affair into a PA, the bigger issue is that this is trickle truth (TT) and it shatters the trust that was rebuilt over the 5 years. That's another betrayal in itself and it makes pursuing R all the more difficult.

When they touch in a way that they wouldn't be comfortable doing around their spouse. Or when they take things to a sexual level via pics or video or chat. Basically, if it veers into sexual/physical territory IMO.

My WH had a mostly EA with a kiss. It took him reading Not Just Friends to admit to the EA as an affair. Then it took almost 6 more weeks for him to say out loud that he cheated on me. Until then, he reasoned in his head that the kiss was "a mistake" and not really cheating. In fact, on DDay, my first question was "did you sleep with her?" to which he responded "No! I have always been faithful to you." Then when I said "Did you kiss her?" He said "Yes, I kissed her." He didn't see the disconnect there. In his mind, being labeled as a cheater, adulterer, etc. really only meant sex.

They want to downplay their betrayal in their minds to ease their guilt and shame. So it took a good while for him to admit to himself that what he did was in fact cheating and that he WAS an asshole who was rilling to risk his marriage/integrity/family and life for some attention from a self-absorbed co-worker.

[This message edited by TX1995 at 9:34 AM, April 9th (Monday)]

It's interesting, I get the impression that my wife believes the physical part of the affair start the first time they had sex. I consider it starting the first time they kissed weeks before.

In any case, if your husband was willing to meet this woman alone, his intentions were to eventually sleep with her. The affair was just exposed before he took the next step.

It happens many times over, that this is all they will confess too...and much later, after the gaslighting, you learn there was sex....not uncommon.

it would be hard to stop....

[This message edited by cancuncrushed at 10:03 AM, April 9th (Monday)]

Shizzle.

In MC on Friday my WH told me that his AP gave him a kiss on the lips (no tongue)- probably 1-3 years before the sex began.....

Never thought of that kiss as the beginning of the PA (vs the actual sex), but he says it opened him to thinking of having sex....

ugh. every day a new tidbit. I hate this.

The instant there is touch that they feel is intimate it becomes a PA. Doesn't matter what that touch is.

DWeek, the first evening: My H swears that it’s a one-sided infatuation. I’m heartbroken - knowing that my husband was thinking about someone like that and making subtle (which is all I knew at the time) bids for OW’s attention was crushing. Somehow, amid that hurt was relief that that’s all it was.

DWeek, day 2: He admits that there was a little more - that they’d sat on her couch, kissed once, though he assured me that all clothes were on. But to me, that changed everything. That he’d ...god, that he’d touch another woman? We’re married! so that isn’t possible, right? That line is supposed to be impermeable. Sacred.

It got much worse from there, but I agree - any physical connection places it firmly in PA territory.

[This message edited by BlueIris at 11:18 AM, April 9th (Monday)]